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rockdeworld
2010-03-31, 10:26 PM
As I understand it, epic-level magic follows the following rules:
-Spellcasters gain no additional spell slots after 20th level.
-Taking the feat Epic Spellcasting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellcasting) grants a spellcaster the ability to cast n epic spells per day, where n is knowledge ranks divided by 10.
-Taking the feat Improved Spell Capacity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity) grants a spellcaster 1 additional spell slot of any level he or she could already cast, or their highest level +1.

How the heck does anyone ever get to the level where they can cast an Intensified (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#intensifySpell) Meteor Storm?

On a similar note, is it just me, or do most epic feats suck (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicEndurance)?

Eurus
2010-03-31, 10:27 PM
Metamagic reducers that you can get pre-epic, mostly. Although I think Intensify would be more generally used on things like Wings of Flurry.

tyckspoon
2010-03-31, 10:33 PM
You can skip Epic Spellcasting if you're just trying to get level 10+ slots; it's actually completely unrelated to them, except that an Epic Spell is considered to be level 10 when that's relevant.

Let's see. You want an Intensified Meteor Swarm; that's a level 16 spell, so you need 6 instances of Improved Spell Capacity. You get 1 at level 21, 2 at level 23 (Epic Wizard Bonus), 3 at 24, 4 at 26 (another Epic Bonus)..

Basically the answer to the question is "you don't." There are far, far better things for an Epic wizard to be doing with his feats than trying to Intensify spells that aren't especially good to start with. And Intensifying in general, really- it's a very inefficient metamagic, considering you can fit Twinned+Maximize into seven spell levels for roughly the same effect.

AstralFire
2010-03-31, 10:34 PM
Most epic anythings suck.

Remmirath
2010-03-31, 10:35 PM
By taking Improved Spell Capacity enough times. It's not that you cannot get additional spell slots after 20th; you just stop automatically getting them, and have to take a feat for it instead.

I believe the earliest level you could cast an Intensified Meteor Swarm at would be somewhere around 30th (for sorcerers, sooner for wizards). Not too sure on that, though.

And yeah, many epic feats suck. So do most non-epic feats.

Intensify isn't the best thing there is, either. There are a couple of combinations that are usually better.

ryzouken
2010-03-31, 10:36 PM
Intensified Meteor Swarm (bad spell choice notwithstanding) would require a 16th level spell slot, meaning 7 instances of Imp Spell Cap. A total of 21 levels, lessened by bonus feats. Such bonus feats can easily be obtained from several PrC's if you hadn't taken them pre epic, the easiest being Spellsword or Loremaster.

Metamagic reducers can further lessen this, possibly by as many as 3-4 levels meaning one can pull off intensified 9th level spells as early as lv 30 or so (I'm sure it's possible sooner, but I'm not up for the optimization involved.)

The easiest is to subsume your metamagic costs entirely using Divine Metamagic or the Metaphysical Spellshaper PrC out of the Book of Erotic Fantasy (yes, you read that right. It's actually not a squick-tastic PrC despite its source and the rest of the book's content. If it were in any other book...) the latter of which focuses on burning your ability scores to power metamagic at a 1:1 ratio (1 point of str for example would pay for 1 level of metamagic.)

Starbuck_II
2010-03-31, 10:46 PM
How the heck does anyone ever get to the level where they can cast an Intensified (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#intensifySpell) Meteor Storm?




So you need a +7.
Arcane Thesis is -1 Metamagic adjustment for all metamagic to a single spell.
Metamagic School Focus [CMage]: 3/day, you may reduce the cost of metamagic applied to 1 spell by 1.
Vestige Metamagic from the Anima Mage?
Easy Metamagic?

Yeah, you could do it with 10th to 11th lv slot 3/day minimum.

Godskook
2010-03-31, 10:58 PM
Let's see. You want an Intensified Meteor Swarm; that's a level 16 spell, so you need 6 instances of Improved Spell Capacity. You get 1 at level 21, 2 at level 23 (Epic Wizard Bonus), 3 at 24, 4 at 26 (another Epic Bonus)..

7 instances of improved spell capacity, actually.

Captainocaptain
2010-04-02, 11:31 PM
Improved Metamagic Feat, anyone? Reduce cost of metamagics by 1 level to a min of 1 higher than base spell level. So take it 3 times, now your Quickened Timestop is a 10th level spell slot, instead of 13th.

tyckspoon
2010-04-02, 11:35 PM
Improved Metamagic Feat, anyone? Reduce cost of metamagics by 1 level to a min of 1 higher than base spell level. So take it 3 times, now your Quickened Timestop is a 10th level spell slot, instead of 13th.

Min. level 27 (or ridiculous early-access cheese) thanks to the skill rank requirements, which means by the time you can take it once you can fit in enough Improved Spell Capacity to hard-cast most reasonable things. Still, if your game makes it that high it's one of the best options for your future feat choices.

Eldariel
2010-04-02, 11:42 PM
Min. level 27 (or Incantatrix)

Fixed. For great imbalance!

JaronK
2010-04-03, 12:45 AM
Intensify is of course really lame (since Twin+Maximize is better, and cheaper if you are using Arcane Thesis). If you really want to do it, Tainted Sorcerer will get the job done nicely.

JaronK

2xMachina
2010-04-03, 04:18 AM
Twin Intensify Enervation anyone?

Or abuse Metamagic reducers, and get more shots off Enervation.

Maximizing effect:
Twin x2
Split ray x2 (need ray)
Ocular spell (becomes ray. Shoot 2 in 1 Full action)
Repeat (next round again)
Empowered (x1.5)
Intensify (Maximize + x2)

Would like:
Chain (now everyone gets hit), but target problem.

magic9mushroom
2010-04-03, 07:20 AM
Intensify is of course really lame (since Twin+Maximize is better, and cheaper if you are using Arcane Thesis). If you really want to do it, Tainted Sorcerer will get the job done nicely.

JaronK

Lol, Tainted Sorcerer. The class that contains 9 dead levels with a Will save to avoid taking them.

I mean, how could the designers seriously have thought that makes for a good balancing mechanism?

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-03, 07:40 AM
Lol, Tainted Sorcerer. The class that contains 9 dead levels with a Will save to avoid taking them.

I mean, how could the designers seriously have thought that makes for a good balancing mechanism?

If those dead levels were 1-9, rather than 2-10, it may have.

Eldariel
2010-04-03, 07:47 AM
The second level is excellent; you get Bloodied Metamagic. The rest just sucks tho.

magic9mushroom
2010-04-03, 07:48 AM
If those dead levels were 1-9, rather than 2-10, it may have.

I mean the mechanic of "Lol, now I'm going to take control over your character's development away from you".

nargbop
2010-04-03, 02:51 PM
By RAW, you have to take the feat Improved Spell Capacity seven times in order to have any 16th-level spell slots. This will be Sorcerer 28 or later, if you're taking straight sorc for some reason. It's not an optimal use of your feats.
Cheese follows :
Instead, use metamagic reduction to reduce the cost of your metamagic increases. A draconic sorc-Incantrix with Practical Metamagic, Easy Metamagic, Metamagic School focus (evocation), and Arcane Thesis (Meteor Swarm) has these adjustments :
Maximize +0 for maximizing
Empower +0 for doubling


Trying to do the same thing with Intensify would have a minimum of +2 level adjustment, as far as I know. There may be more you can wring out of metamagic shenanigans, but it makes everyone hate you.

For more fun, apply these feats also as +0 : Fell Animate to immediately raise your slain enemies as zombies, Twin +0 for doubling, Repeat +0 for doubling, Explosive +0 for flinging enmies wide and doing further damage,
Blistering +0 for two more damage per die, Energy Admixture +0 for doubling.

A level 20 nonepic sorc-Incantrix can just barely fit in all these feats. More than two thousand damage from a non-epic level 9 slot meteor swarm.

Volkov
2010-04-03, 03:00 PM
You can skip Epic Spellcasting if you're just trying to get level 10+ slots; it's actually completely unrelated to them, except that an Epic Spell is considered to be level 10 when that's relevant.

Let's see. You want an Intensified Meteor Swarm; that's a level 16 spell, so you need 6 instances of Improved Spell Capacity. You get 1 at level 21, 2 at level 23 (Epic Wizard Bonus), 3 at 24, 4 at 26 (another Epic Bonus)..

Basically the answer to the question is "you don't." There are far, far better things for an Epic wizard to be doing with his feats than trying to Intensify spells that aren't especially good to start with. And Intensifying in general, really- it's a very inefficient metamagic, considering you can fit Twinned+Maximize into seven spell levels for roughly the same effect.

Doesn't intensify add 10 to the save DC?

Douglas
2010-04-03, 03:10 PM
Doesn't intensify add 10 to the save DC?
No. The only metamagic that adds to the save DC is Heighten Spell. Ok, and Sanctum Spell, and I think Cooperative Spell might also do it. Anyway, boosting save DC is never a side benefit, it's always the main benefit. Intensify's main only benefit is double maximum damage.

trmptfnfr
2010-04-03, 03:13 PM
I mean the mechanic of "Lol, now I'm going to take control over your character's development away from you".It was probably not meant to be used during regular campaigns, as the class represents a character's transformation from a regular magician who found an alternative way to gain power, to being completely consumed by "taint".
Some would say a descent into madness with the added twist of an addiction.

It's like complaining that the dread pirate class is useless in regular dungeon crawling. Yes it is, but it wasn't meant to be used that way.