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View Full Version : HP at low levels in a low magic setting [3.x]



Noodles2375
2010-04-02, 09:30 AM
I'm about to start a new 1-3 shotter/campaign in a relatively low magic setting.

For specific flavor reasons, there are little to no divine casters, but healing through potions exists and is not too difficult to find. I haven't decided exactly how I want to handle arcane magic yet, but I was considering replacing arcane magic with psionics, which I feel is far cleaner, and fits the feel of the setting better.

Given these parameters, I wanted to change the hp system to speed up out of combat healing. Here is what I wanted to do:
All players get wound points equal to 2x CON.
Players get standard hp/level as vitality points.
Unconscious at WP = 0, staggered/ only 1 std action at WP = CON. Normal death rules afor WP < 0.

I sort of wanted to capture the feeling of Dragon Age's out of combat healing as I know the people I'm playing with haven't played much DnD but greatly enjoy bioware RPG's.
Players heal 1 wound point per point of CON bonus per day, and heal 1 vitality point per level per hour outside of combat. My concern is that this system will make players too durable once they get above level 5-6. Should I be worried about this?

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-02, 09:44 AM
I'm about to start a new 1-3 shotter/campaign in a relatively low magic setting.

For specific flavor reasons, there are little to no divine casters, but healing through potions exists and is not too difficult to find. I haven't decided exactly how I want to handle arcane magic yet, but I was considering replacing arcane magic with psionics, which I feel is far cleaner, and fits the feel of the setting better.

Given these parameters, I wanted to change the hp system to speed up out of combat healing. Here is what I wanted to do:
All players get wound points equal to 2x CON.
Players get standard hp/level as vitality points.
Unconscious at WP = 0, staggered/ only 1 std action at WP = CON. Normal death rules afor WP < 0.

I sort of wanted to capture the feeling of Dragon Age's out of combat healing as I know the people I'm playing with haven't played much DnD but greatly enjoy bioware RPG's.
Players heal 1 wound point per point of CON bonus per day, and heal 1 vitality point per level per hour outside of combat. My concern is that this system will make players too durable once they get above level 5-6. Should I be worried about this?

Have you seen the vitality system (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm)?
Its on the SRD.

IT works very very well, I am a huge fan of it.
I know my players are as well.

Calimehter
2010-04-02, 09:58 AM
I have run low-level games with very small levels of divine healing magic available in-party (though like your setting, potions can be and are often purchased). I got away with using the standard rules for HP when we did it.

It worked well for us, though that is likely because we were fine with a game that featured smaller numbers of high-intensity combats with lots of down-time in between, so natural healing and occasional potion usage were sufficient.

Eldariel
2010-04-02, 10:01 AM
Have you seen the vitality system (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm)?
Its on the SRD.

IT works very very well, I am a huge fan of it.
I know my players are as well.

This. The key advantage of VP/WP system is that actual WP (real, serious damage) happens pretty rarely so the need to heal just isn't there as often. Sure, when you take WP damage, it's serious business, but mostly you'll be dealing with VP-damage that cures naturally really fast which means you won't have to stop after the first fight even if the party takes a few hits.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-02, 10:12 AM
This. The key advantage of VP/WP system is that actual WP (real, serious damage) happens pretty rarely so the need to heal just isn't there as often. Sure, when you take WP damage, it's serious business, but mostly you'll be dealing with VP-damage that cures naturally really fast which means you won't have to stop after the first fight even if the party takes a few hits.

agreed though it still has a gritty feal to it which is nice.

Eldariel
2010-04-02, 10:27 AM
agreed though it still has a gritty feal to it which is nice.

Precisely; it's the best of both worlds. Everyone can die at any point and yet, usually the PCs aren't gonna have to roll over after every fight.

jiriku
2010-04-02, 01:13 PM
+2 for the Vitality point system. It makes the game much more functional for low-level play without throwing any major balance wrenches in the works. Once I started using this a couple of years ago, I've never looked back. It's also flexible in that you can easily make small tweaks to it to suit your preferences.

Noodles2375
2010-04-03, 01:29 AM
Thanks for the feedback! Since it sounds like everyone has had so much success with that system I think we'll give it a crack!

One additional question though, do you find critical hits are too deadly for the PC's? With a limited number of of WP's, as they suggest in the metagame analysis of the srd article, fights can turn around really fast on the back of 1-2 lucky rolls. I was considering having critical hits simply do maximum damage to vitality than automatically hit the wound points.
i.e. critical hit with a great axe = 36 vitality damage versus the suggested reduced damage but increased crit-range of 2d12 directly to the wound points. The latter has a very good chance of one-shotting a character. The former will feel like an extreme hit, but will likely be recoverable.

Eldariel
2010-04-03, 04:55 AM
Thanks to the Fort-saves to avoid death, getting 1d12d for 12 points isn't the end of the world. Though yeah, criticals are obviously lethal. But I'd keep 'em as is; without them, the whole variant doesn't really make sense. Indeed, it means there's no way to "hit the opponent" until a long and arduous tiring fight.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-03, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the feedback! Since it sounds like everyone has had so much success with that system I think we'll give it a crack!

One additional question though, do you find critical hits are too deadly for the PC's? With a limited number of of WP's, as they suggest in the metagame analysis of the srd article, fights can turn around really fast on the back of 1-2 lucky rolls. I was considering having critical hits simply do maximum damage to vitality than automatically hit the wound points.
i.e. critical hit with a great axe = 36 vitality damage versus the suggested reduced damage but increased crit-range of 2d12 directly to the wound points. The latter has a very good chance of one-shotting a character. The former will feel like an extreme hit, but will likely be recoverable.


No crits work just fine. They are deadly. and they should be. I've never had a problem with it. makes the players act more careful around brusers.

Captain Six
2010-04-03, 12:17 PM
In the vitality system the critical-hit ranges and multipliers do have to be dealt with on some level. Or else you end up with a keen-falchion power attacker who threatens on a 15-20 and WILL deal enough to drop an opponent in a single swing if he crits.

The easiest fix is to make keen and improved critical add +1 to the threat range, not double. Another thing I did in my brief play with the wound/vitality system is that monsters would be mostly wound points. They are big and fleshy enough to justify it, humanoids aren't.

Eldariel
2010-04-03, 12:21 PM
In the vitality system the critical-hit ranges and multipliers do have to be dealt with on some level. Or else you end up with a keen-falchion power attacker who threatens on a 15-20 and WILL deal enough to drop an opponent in a single swing if he crits.

The easiest fix is to make keen and improved critical add +1 to the threat range, not double. Another thing I did in my brief play with the wound/vitality system is that monsters would be mostly wound points. They are big and fleshy enough to justify it, humanoids aren't.

Meh, I've seen one-shot kills very rarely thus far. Using Class Defense-variant along with that makes hitting hard enough that PAing for enough to one-shot people becomes surprisingly difficult; having to hit twice really bites into that. Though yeah, 15-20 is a bit long crit range on VP/WP. For low-level low-magic though, it works perfectly as written; Improved Critical isn't a concern for many levels.