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Trekkin
2010-04-03, 08:54 PM
I've often heard the crossbow referred to as a sort of default weapon, wielded by primary casters before they gain "real" offensive capability. This has led me to wonder what advantages if any crossbows have over longbows, and further what sort of build one could use to capitalize upon these bonuses. Thus far, I've been thinking a race with a dex bonus going fighter and taking the weapon proficiency for a heavy crossbow, following it up with the weapon specialization feats and Point Blank Shot tree together with the Ranged Pin/Sunder/Disarm from Complete warrior, followed by crossbow sniper.

Are there any other crossbow-centric feats out there to add to my crossbow warrior build, or any ranged feats that might function well for optimizing a crossbow-based fighter? How ought the crossbow itself to be enchanted to further add to his/her capabilities?

Basically, how do I build a level 20 character around using a heavy crossbow?

Eldariel
2010-04-03, 08:58 PM
The Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.00) covers that very subject. Specifically, Crossbow Sniper and Great Crossbow (really nice with some size increases) are both great toys for a Crossbower. Though generally that makes you better off as a Rogue due to Crossbow Sniper's SA range increase, but a Fighter (preferably Warblade) can TWF Crossbows really efficiently too (with some tricks to charge 'em fast). Oh, and Gnome Crossbow Sight for nice range.

Soranar
2010-04-03, 09:04 PM
I've often heard the crossbow referred to as a sort of default weapon, wielded by primary casters before they gain "real" offensive capability. This has led me to wonder what advantages if any crossbows have over longbows, and further what sort of build one could use to capitalize upon these bonuses. Thus far, I've been thinking a race with a dex bonus going fighter and taking the weapon proficiency for a heavy crossbow, following it up with the weapon specialization feats and Point Blank Shot tree together with the Ranged Pin/Sunder/Disarm from Complete warrior, followed by crossbow sniper.

Are there any other crossbow-centric feats out there to add to my crossbow warrior build, or any ranged feats that might function well for optimizing a crossbow-based fighter? How ought the crossbow itself to be enchanted to further add to his/her capabilities?

Basically, how do I build a level 20 character around using a heavy crossbow?

Rapid reload is only worth it for light crossbows, otherwise you have to wait for instant reload (which is an epic feat with weird prerequisites like quickdraw). As mentioned above, the handbook covers most of the why.

Trekkin
2010-04-03, 09:43 PM
Hmm... most informative. Given the problems with reloading, it would make sense to do a build based around one insanely damaging shot.

Do the crossbow feats apply to the ballistae statted in Heroes of Battle?

Eldariel
2010-04-03, 09:52 PM
Hmm... most informative. Given the problems with reloading, it would make sense to do a build based around one insanely damaging shot.

Or work around it. The same guide gives you some tricks for that too. Most notably "Ghostly Reload"-spell from Races of the Dragon. In addition to just drawing a dozen of 'em or so and firing each and then dropping; all free actions with Quick Draw.

But yeah, Ghostly Reload (cast as a Quickened Spell or Swift UMD or w/e) is the key to iteratives on Great Crossbows. Chain Reach Quickened Ghostly Reload can even affect two Great Crossbows at once allowing you to akimbo them.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-04-03, 10:02 PM
Its important to keep in mind the reason the crossbow was valued and feared was because it was easy, not because it was a fast killing weapon.

An expert marksman could fire ten arrows for every shot a crossbow men fired. However trained longbow men took years to develop and required good upper body strength and were expensive and not disposable.

For Crossbowmen, take a farmers give him a five minute lesson hand them their crossbows and they could kill knights with a decade of training. The pope outlawed the weapon for that very reason.

So it should be no surprise that usually, in D&D a longbow is always the superior choice over the crossbow. Your not a peasant your a super hero.
Your going to want to go with a light crossbow for multiple attacks a round, with one exception

Deadeye Shot, You can ready a ranged attack to occur when an ally strikes a particular target, and your ally succeeds, that target loses his Dexterity bonus to AC against your attack.

So say a rogue using heavy crossbow would get his sneak attack bonus,

Trekkin
2010-04-03, 11:14 PM
Are there any builds that attempt to make crossbows crit consistently?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-03, 11:28 PM
Are there any builds that attempt to make crossbows crit consistently?

I believe someone at BG did a quite abusive build to dual wield crossbows with high crit ranges and use aptitude enchantment to use handcrossbow focus (PH II IIRC) and Lighting Maces (CWar) to get almost infinite attacks or so...

Olo Demonsbane
2010-04-03, 11:57 PM
That was me. And it was on this board as well. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7644456&postcount=24)

Look under "Bolt Spammer"

Irreverent Fool
2010-04-04, 12:27 AM
That was me. And it was on this board as well. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7644456&postcount=24)

Look under "Bolt Spammer"

I don't suppose you have a more detailed description of how the build works and the progression?

obnoxious
sig

Olo Demonsbane
2010-04-04, 09:57 PM
I could link you to a sample character (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=154898)...

But that link gives a pretty good description of how it works....if you crit, your Roundhouse Kick and Lightning Maces each give you another attack, your Double hit gives you one with each weapon, and your Splitting Weapons double those attacks. So you get 8 attacks. You crit 40% of the time. You will get an extremely high number of attacks very quickly.

deuxhero
2010-04-04, 10:02 PM
Play a Modron!

Escheton
2010-04-04, 10:10 PM
the telling blow feat allows you to add sneak attack dmg on a crit. Both on ranged as melee attack, only prereq is sneak attack or skirmish.

NiteCyper
2010-04-04, 10:16 PM
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/22668581/Advice_for_xbow_users