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View Full Version : I think I may have a world record here... [3.5]



Lord of Syntax
2010-04-03, 09:21 PM
I think I have the world record for earliest 9th level arcane spells without random benefits or Pun-Pun.
ECL 8!

How to:

First be a Kobold with the feat Dragonwrought (pg. 100 from Races of the Dragon)
Dragonwrought (by RAW) lets you take Sovereign Archetypes from Dragons of Ebberon.
The one you want is Loredrake, because you get +2 effective sorcerer level, not effective caster level.
Then take the Draconic Rite of Passage (pg. 43 from Races of the Dragon).
As your third level feat take Draconic Reservoir (from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a))
Then at level 6 undergo the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a))
Then get permamently polymorphed into a Phaerimm (from Lost Empires of FaerŻn pg. 187)
Then you cast as a 19th level sorcerer!

The Dark Fiddler
2010-04-03, 09:23 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure there's level 1 Pun-Pun these days, and we all know Pun-Pun can do anything. (Not commenting on the build because I lack the knowledge, not to be mean).

Mr.Bookworm
2010-04-03, 09:32 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure there's level 1 Pun-Pun these days, and we all know Pun-Pun can do anything. (Not commenting on the build because I lack the knowledge, not to be mean).

Yeah, LG Kobold Paladin 1, "Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu", and you're on your way.

On another note, I can't check to see if this works (I have none of the books mentioned), but I'm pretty sure I saw this trick just a little while ago.

Lord of Syntax
2010-04-03, 09:37 PM
Yeah, posted by me.

Eurus
2010-04-03, 09:59 PM
How do you get polymorphed into a creature in such a way as to gain its innate spellcasting ability? I was under the impression that even Shapechange didn't do that, since they're not (Ex) or (Su).

Lord of Syntax
2010-04-03, 10:06 PM
It is a (Su).

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-03, 10:17 PM
How do you get polymorphed into a creature in such a way as to gain its innate spellcasting ability? I was under the impression that even Shapechange didn't do that, since they're not (Ex) or (Su).

Polymorph any object twice (to make duration permanent)+Assume Supernatural ability I guess

Soranar
2010-04-03, 10:23 PM
you misread the race and the polymorph spell

the spell from SRD:


The assumed form canít have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subjectís HD, whichever is lower)

the race itself has a sorcerer caster level = to it's HD , it may be a Su ability but you're not gaining much by doing it

and I still don't see how you get the Su abilities from what you posted

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-04-03, 10:24 PM
I think I have the world record for earliest 9th level spells without random benefits or Pun-Pun.
ECL 8!

How to:

First be a Kobold with the feat Dragonwrought (pg. 100 from Races of the Dragon)
Dragonwrought (by RAW) lets you take Sovereign Archetypes from Dragons of Ebberon.
The one you want is Loredrake, because you get +2 effective sorcerer level, not effective caster level.
Then take the Draconic Rite of Passage (pg. 43 from Races of the Dragon).
As your third level feat take Draconic Reservoir (from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a))
Then at level 6 undergo the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a))
Then get permamently polymorphed into a Phaerimm (from Lost Empires of FaerŻn pg. 187)
Then you cast as a 19th level sorcerer!


Yeah, that's...fairly old, actually. Loredrake was added to the Dragonwrought/Rite combo as soon as Dragons of Eberron was published, and shortly after that a thread on the WotC forums examined all the ways you could abuse those extra sorcerer levels. Variations on the Rite + Loredrake + innate casting trick been reposted a bunch of times since then as people rediscover it. I think I've seen the Phaerimm version only once before, though (mostly because it's hotly debated whether the Phaerimm double sorcerer casting actually works that way), so points for that.

Irreverent Fool
2010-04-03, 10:45 PM
you misread the race and the polymorph spell

the spell from SRD:


The assumed form canít have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subjectís HD, whichever is lower)

the race itself has a sorcerer caster level = to it's HD , it may be a Su ability but you're not gaining much by doing it

and I still don't see how you get the Su abilities from what you posted

I thought creatures that had innate spellcasting automatically stacked that spellcasting with any class levels that provided the same sort.

Granted, I don't see how this would work with changing into such a creature, since it doesn't seem right that they'd automatically get to select spells.

obnoxious
sig

Yuki Akuma
2010-04-03, 10:52 PM
I thought creatures that had innate spellcasting automatically stacked that spellcasting with any class levels that provided the same sort.

That is exactly how it works (although whether dragons with levels in Sorcerer still get to pick Cleric spells is debated).

arguskos
2010-04-03, 11:06 PM
Dude, we had like THREE threads about the Phaerimm and it's busted Sorc casting just a week or two ago. magic9mushroom was using it to get double and triple 9s and other madness.

Lord of Syntax
2010-04-03, 11:21 PM
I have been away from my internet connection for a few weeks, and there is no up to date World Records.

arguskos
2010-04-03, 11:33 PM
I have been away from my internet connection for a few weeks, and there is no up to date World Records.
Fair enough, though the trick is more than a few weeks old. It's several years old, at youngest. Still, a good find to figure out independently. :smallwink:

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-04-04, 02:02 AM
Dude, we had like THREE threads about the Phaerimm and it's bustedCount 5:

Phaerimms aren't that broken. SLAs = awesome. The uber sorc level casting is a false interpretation.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-04, 02:04 AM
Problem: As a hatchling Phaerimm, you have a sorceror level of 1.

You have a CL = HD (stacks with CL gain from sorceror).

So you get essentially +1 sorceror level. That's it.

I've seen a character get 9th level divine spells at ECL 6, by the way.

Lord of Syntax
2010-04-04, 02:39 AM
You just failed a rules check, it says ECL for some reason.

JaronK
2010-04-04, 02:46 AM
Racial casting is Ex, not Su. Su abilities are specifically defined in how they're not spells. Specifically, racial casting is an Ex Special Attack. See PHB page 180 and MMV for details.

JaronK

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-04, 02:56 AM
You just failed a rules check, it says ECL for some reason.

Doesn't matter. The only thing Phaerimm has as scaling is CASTER LEVEL. Not Effective Sorceror Level.

In the absence of that, the Effective sorceror level of phaerimm is based on the table provided, and caster level scales with HD.