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Trekkin
2010-04-04, 10:21 PM
I have a player who wants to play the spawn of an elf and a gnome, a "half-elf half-gnome", as she put it. Is there a way to adjust the stats for half-elves to make the other half gnomish rather than human?

Mongoose87
2010-04-04, 10:36 PM
There isn't necessarily anything 'humanish' about half-elves...a couple of things to consider though:

*small size instead of medium
*+2 craft: alchemy, and an additional +1 to listen, instead of +2 gather info / diplomacy
*+2 vs. illusions, instead of +2 vs. enchantment

(mix/match *shrug*)

I'd go for this, but maybe randomly determine if they're small or medium. Maybe.

Serpentine
2010-04-04, 10:39 PM
Pretty much just gotta houserule/homebrew it yourself (or take the one already done)... One of my characters is a 3/4 elf 1/4 (homebrewed) tiefling, which is fun.
I would say... Anything both have, give it to the half-breed. Halve everything else, or take half from each, and/or figure out what would come from upbringing and assign that according to backstory.

Eloel
2010-04-04, 10:39 PM
I hope the mother was elf. Ouch if not.

BobVosh
2010-04-04, 10:39 PM
A gnelf? Oh my.

Trekkin
2010-04-04, 10:42 PM
She also wondered about being half-warforged, at which point another player of mine started a long discussion about the genetic possibilities brought about by Polymorph Any Object. Gnelf is a compromise; if she wants to be part-warforged she can buy grafts.

Godskook
2010-04-04, 11:19 PM
I vote for Medium with slight build or vice versa, Small with powerful build. Flavor-wise, it'd fit quite nicely.

krossbow
2010-04-04, 11:22 PM
I hope the mother was elf. Ouch if not.


Elf's are tiny things! She'd be split like a twig!

Mongoose87
2010-04-04, 11:48 PM
I vote for Medium with slight build or vice versa, Small with powerful build. Flavor-wise, it'd fit quite nicely.

I retract my vote for randomization and second this motion.

Deth Muncher
2010-04-04, 11:50 PM
She also wondered about being half-warforged, at which point another player of mine started a long discussion about the genetic possibilities brought about by Polymorph Any Object. Gnelf is a compromise; if she wants to be part-warforged she can buy grafts.

There's the PrC Renegade Mastermaker that deals with Warforged Grafting. Alternatively, Goodman Games' Dragonmech setting has a base class that revolves around turning yourself into a robot.

Kurald Galain
2010-04-05, 02:47 AM
A gnelf? Oh my.

A gelfling, perhaps?

Superglucose
2010-04-05, 02:59 AM
Pretty much just gotta houserule/homebrew it yourself (or take the one already done)... One of my characters is a 3/4 elf 1/4 (homebrewed) tiefling, which is fun.
I would say... Anything both have, give it to the half-breed. Halve everything else, or take half from each, and/or figure out what would come from upbringing and assign that according to backstory.
Planetouched half-elf and an elf?

In other news, I was considering having my human character marry an elf and have kids, but I didn't want to subject my kids to being such a subop race... :smallcool:

taltamir
2010-04-05, 03:30 AM
In other news, I was considering having my human character marry an elf and have kids, but I didn't want to subject my kids to being such a subop race... :smallcool:

lol... amen!
try not to punish the player too much for being half elf half gnome. (the half-elf template sucks hardcore).

UncleMark
2010-04-06, 12:31 PM
In my current campaign we went the theory that all of the named races (deva, dragonborn, teifling, goliath) were all some sort of half-human race that had a parent of angel, dragon, demon, or giant descent (human DNA being compatible with damn near everything). One player went with it and made his mother a dragon and his father a human dragon-killer who had tried to kill his mother. His mother managed to kill his father, but not before somehow managing to get impregnated by said dragon-killer.

His backstory also now includes full dragon siblings and a step-father who is full dragon. While his on-going quest in life is to find others like himself, he finds most humans to be disgusting, but finds himself constantly in their mist. Made for many cool roleplaying moments.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-06, 12:35 PM
I vote for Medium with slight build or vice versa, Small with powerful build. Flavor-wise, it'd fit quite nicely.

+1. Those traits would work well mechanically.

Eldariel
2010-04-06, 12:43 PM
+1. Those traits would work well mechanically.

Agreed. I'd probably tend towards medium with Slight Build since elves are rather lightly built already; Gnome/Elf having penalty to those checks seems rather reasonable.

Though frankly, I'd work against the suckiness of Half-Elf too, but that's not here nor there.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-06, 12:47 PM
A 1/2 elf/demon can be a Fey-ri (LA +0). Awesome race that gets enervation 1/day at lv 1.

But I agree with above poster: Small with powerful build.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-06, 12:49 PM
A 1/2 elf/demon can be a Fey-ri (LA +0). Awesome race that gets enervation 1/day at lv 1.

The fact that the Devs were dumb enough to let that be an LA0 race is one reason I hate FR.

Kosjsjach
2010-04-06, 12:55 PM
On the Slight/Powerful Build notion, small size with Powerful Build is probably better from a mechanical standpoint: you'd get the +1 to AC and attacks, while not having to suffer the hits to grapple or trip or overrun checks. The only thing a medium creature with Slight Build really gets you is +4 to Hide and the ability to squeeze through smaller spaces.

nekomata2
2010-04-06, 01:21 PM
The fact that the Devs were dumb enough to let that be an LA0 race is one reason I hate FR.

Were Fey'ri printed somewhere other than Races of Faerun? Because they are LA +2 in that book...

Starbuck_II
2010-04-06, 01:40 PM
Monsters of Faerun lists them as LA +0.
+2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int
Elven Traits, 4 1/day abilities chosen from list at start (enervation is one list).

But this link says they were updated to LA +2:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-06, 01:41 PM
Were Fey'ri printed somewhere other than Races of Faerun? Because they are LA +2 in that book...

PGtF removes LA from everything in exchange for a penalty to everything based on the LA (-4 on Attacks/Saves for a +4 LA).


Really effing stupid.

hamishspence
2010-04-06, 01:58 PM
Feyri aren't in Players Guide to Faerun- they are in Races of Faerun.

PGTF has the option to remove LA from Outsiders- in return for them becoming humanoids.

It also has the "Powerful Races at 1st level" optional rule- is that what's being referred to?

And Monsters of Faerun doesn't give LAs for the Fey'ri and the Tannaruk- at least, not in the copy I've got- though it does give CRs- the sample 1 HD Feyri is CR2, suggesting that if they had given an LA, it wouldn't have been +0.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-06, 02:03 PM
Feyri aren't in Players Guide to Faerun- they are in Races of Faerun.

PGTF has the option to remove LA from Outsiders- in return for them becoming humanoids.

It also has the "Powerful Races at 1st level" optional rule- is that what's being referred to?

And Monsters of Faerun doesn't give LAs for the Fey'ri and the Tannaruk- at least, not in the copy I've got- though it does give CRs- the sample 1 HD Feyri is CR2, suggesting that if they had given an LA, it wouldn't have been +0.


Yes, that's it. Take penalties for playing an LA race. Allows Dragonwrought Dracolich Kobolds at 1st level*.




*Disclaimer: Expensive as ****.



I actually suggest Half-Elf Half-Drow. The ultimate hybrid


Great, just great. The only thing worse than an Elf is an Elf made from two different species of Elf. What next. Elf Dragons (not Half Dragon BS, I mean a True Dragon)?

LichPrinceAlim
2010-04-06, 02:03 PM
Seriously, I've got a fellow player who's running a Half-Frostblood Orc Half-Neanderthal Druid with Primative Casting. He's a riot and a half.

I actually suggest Half-Elf Half-Drow. The ultimate hybrid

Curmudgeon
2010-04-06, 02:07 PM
There isn't necessarily anything 'humanish' about half-elves...
Huh?
Humans and elves sometimes wed, the elf attracted to the human’s energy and the human to the elf’s grace. These marriages end quickly as elves count years because a human’s life is so brief, but they leave an enduring legacy—half-elf children. Other than being explicitly stated that they're half-human, they also qualify for the Human Heritage feat (Races of Destiny).

If you're trying to create an elf-gnome hybrid, you definitely don't want to start with the Half-Elf racial characteristics, because there is something necessarily "humanish" in a half-elf.

Sliver
2010-04-06, 02:12 PM
Did anyone try to create half elf/gnome using the Bastards and Bloodlines book?

Telonius
2010-04-06, 02:21 PM
Great, just great. The only thing worse than an Elf is an Elf made from two different species of Elf. What next. Elf Dragons (not Half Dragon BS, I mean a True Dragon)?

That would be "Lesser Drow." Horrifying, I know.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-06, 02:23 PM
That would be "Lesser Drow." Horrifying, I know.

Please tell me you are kidding...

Ravens_cry
2010-04-06, 02:24 PM
What happens if you cross an elf with an orc? Both are fairly chaotic, and both tend toward good and evil respectively. And orcs can breed with humans, and elves can breed with humans, so. . .? Of course, almost ANYTHING can breed with a human.

hamishspence
2010-04-06, 02:28 PM
Please tell me you are kidding...

Dragons of Faerun has drow-dragons (not the same thing as lesser drow)

Mechanically, they are shadow dragons with the Elven Blood trait (allowing them to qualify for elf-only magic items, PRCs, etc) and the ability to polymorph themselves into drow. They have +1 LA compared to normal shadow dragons.

They are descended from hybridization between drow and shadow dragons (they are mostly dragon).

Eleven
2010-04-06, 02:32 PM
What happens if you cross an elf with an orc? Both are fairly chaotic, and both tend toward good and evil respectively. And orcs can breed with humans, and elves can breed with humans, so. . .? Of course, almost ANYTHING can breed with a human.

When an elf and an orc mate, they make a human.

Nai_Calus
2010-04-06, 02:57 PM
When an elf and an orc mate, they make a human.

The real reason why Gruumsh and Corellon hate each other.

peacenlove
2010-04-06, 04:41 PM
Of course, Everything can breed with Anything.

Fixed :smallamused:
Do not let the elves fool you. They are not a true race but the crude mix and match of races better left unspoken. Why do you thing there are 20+ subspecies and everything has elf on it?
They kill their fathers and mothers in shame so they hide their true origins...

paddyfool
2010-04-06, 04:56 PM
Fixed :smallamused:
Do not let the elves fool you. They are not a true race but the crude mix and match of races better left unspoken. Why do you thing there are 20+ subspecies and everything has elf on it?
They kill their fathers and mothers in shame so they hide their true origins...

Dorf propaganda.

(Dorfs, incidentally, are actually just gnomes with fetal alcohol syndrome; the sternest laws and taboos in dorf society insist a pregnant dorf get thoroughly lashed throughout the process; the reason isn't stated, but in fact it's simply to avoid popping out a gnome).

Ravens_cry
2010-04-06, 05:08 PM
When an elf and an orc mate, they make a human.
Is this 'canon'?. Conversely, have you ever seen it used in a game?:smallconfused: