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Grifthin
2010-04-05, 01:09 PM
Using any sourcebook - What is the most broken and straight forward level 15 character for one on one combat. I'm not talking about creating your own planes of existance, pun pun etc - I'm talking uber chargers etc - What is the most straight forward level 15 character using any race/class combo that's simple to play that you would recommend for pvp combat. Post links or builds that you like. Exra brownie points for funky ideas.

2xMachina
2010-04-05, 01:11 PM
In before Necropolitan Tainted Scholar?

EDIT: Ok, fine. Explaining. (2nd hand)

Undead = no bad effect from taint.
Tainted Scholar casts based on Taint.
Casting evil stuff gets you taint. (IIRC)
(Also, taint is easy to get)

Ergo, cycle of power.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-04-05, 01:14 PM
Most straight forward? Wizard 15. Done. Most broken? Probably some Incantatrix/Tainted Scholar Leadership chain shenanigans where you've got an army of Balors, each with the mind of a 12 year old girl.

gorfnab
2010-04-05, 01:27 PM
Druid 5/ Planar Shepherd 10, Dal Quor anyone?

Skaven
2010-04-05, 01:35 PM
Depending on what you're facing, but straightforward not likely to get your DM to burn your char sheet, Wizard 15 or Druid 15, no shenanigans.

Grifthin
2010-04-05, 01:38 PM
What makes planar shepard so broken ?

gorfnab
2010-04-05, 01:41 PM
What makes planar shepard so broken ?
This handy Planar Shepherd Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871574/The_Planar_Shepherd_Handbook) will explain most of it.
Mainly that if you choose the Dal Quor plane you get 10 rounds of actions per 1 round of actual game time. Basically a 10 round Time Stop, with less restrictions, every round while your enemies just get 1 round of actions.

Emmerask
2010-04-05, 01:46 PM
well you can turn into outsiders and use their abilities , good casting and very few drawbacks.
And you get timestop only you can effect enemies during the duration which is 10 rounds (planar bubble)... that thing alone will end every single encounter with a victory.
/ninjaŽd

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-05, 01:52 PM
Planar shepherd is really good even without Dal Quor. You lose almost nothing from PrCing into it, and gain a bunch of really good abilities. Notably the Outsider wildshape while keeping all of their SLAs and EX abilities. Efreeti anyone? 3 wishes per wildshape, yes please!

Grifthin
2010-04-05, 01:59 PM
This handy Planar Shepherd Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871574/The_Planar_Shepherd_Handbook) will explain most of it.
Mainly that if you choose the Dal Quor plane you get 10 rounds of actions per 1 round of actual game time. Basically a 10 round Time Stop, with less restrictions, every round while your enemies just get 1 round of actions.

Umm, Damn - what would you say is the most efficient way to kill people in that 10 round limit and what feats do you recommend ?

Lord Vukodlak
2010-04-05, 02:01 PM
Simply put Cleric, they have the defense and the offense.

Optimystik
2010-04-05, 02:06 PM
Planar shepherd is really good even without Dal Quor. You lose almost nothing from PrCing into it, and gain a bunch of really good abilities. Notably the Outsider wildshape while keeping all of their SLAs and EX abilities. Efreeti anyone? 3 wishes per wildshape, yes please!

If you choose the Region of Dreams (MotP) you get both - 10 rounds of fast time, and you can wildshape into Efreet/Noble Djinni.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-05, 02:19 PM
If you choose the Region of Dreams (MotP) you get both - 10 rounds of fast time, and you can wildshape into Efreet/Noble Djinni.

I believe you can't choose non-ebberon planes, since it's ebberon material. Otherwise people would choose shadow and get every creature in the game with the dark template.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-04-05, 02:29 PM
Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 10 is pretty good. Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 4/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Shadowcrafter 3 is one of the strongest builds out there, but it's far from straightforward.



I believe you can't choose non-ebberon planes, since it's ebberon material. Otherwise people would choose shadow and get every creature in the game with the dark template.

You cannot Wild Shape into anything that has a template.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-04-05, 02:41 PM
Most broken? PunPun + 14 levels.

Most straightforward? Define, please.

Tavar
2010-04-05, 02:46 PM
Most broken? PunPun + 14 levels.

Most straightforward? Define, please.

I'm not talking about creating your own planes of existance, pun pun etc - I'm talking uber chargers etc -

Reading Comprehension fail.

Taint Scholar+traditional wizard tricks is probably a good bet. You might also be able to do a mailman build.

Grifthin
2010-04-05, 02:53 PM
mailman ? whats that ?

subject42
2010-04-05, 02:56 PM
mailman ? whats that ?

So far as I can tell, it's a build that everyone talks about but never defines, then hushes up when somebody asks for an explanation.


(More seriously, I think it's a blaster sorcerer)

Flickerdart
2010-04-05, 02:57 PM
Ur-Priest could also work. Because by 15, you'll have finished it, and gotten 9th level casting. Bonus points for Sublime Ur-Theurge shenanigans, but I don't think it gets double nines by 15, even if those levels are a sweet spot for it.

Boci
2010-04-05, 03:01 PM
So far as I can tell, it's a build that everyone talks about but never defines, then hushes up when somebody asks for an explanation.


(More seriously, I think it's a blaster sorcerer)

Uses rays and metamagic such as occular and empower spell along with split ray to do a lot of damage. Probably combines arcane thesis in there too.

Tavar
2010-04-05, 03:02 PM
Mailman (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

subject42
2010-04-05, 03:05 PM
If you want to avoid spellcasting, the Warforged Soul Eater is pretty broken. If you can get one hit off, the rest pretty much take care of themselves.

Optimystik
2010-04-05, 03:05 PM
mailman ? whats that ?


So far as I can tell, it's a build that everyone talks about but never defines, then hushes up when somebody asks for an explanation.


(More seriously, I think it's a blaster sorcerer)

It's pretty straightforward - He delivers the mail. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

Seconding Ur-Priest. (Tainted Scholar does not exist in my vocabulary.)

EDIT: Cursed ninjas!

Boci
2010-04-05, 03:06 PM
If you want to avoid spellcasting, the Warforged Soul Eater is pretty broken. If you can get one hit off, the rest pretty much take care of themselves.

Wasn't that dispruven with the line that a soul eater can only use its energy drain drain ability on one attack per round?

subject42
2010-04-05, 03:09 PM
Wasn't that dispruven with the line that a soul eater can only use its energy drain drain ability on one attack per round?

I hadn't read that before now. Even still, if you only get off one energy drain per attack, that's not too bad if you combine it with a bunch of the warforged racial feats and a few levels of Warforged Juggernaut.

Tavar
2010-04-05, 03:12 PM
Oh! Lighting Maces+Selfloading crossbows+Aptitude Weapon=Insane amounts of damage. Just make sure they don't manifest Death Urge on you.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-05, 03:15 PM
Oh! Lighting Maces+Selfloading crossbows+Aptitude Weapon=Insane amounts of damage. Just make sure they don't manifest Death Urge on you.

Or you could do it kukris and be truly infinite. Nice match though.

Boci
2010-04-05, 03:15 PM
I hadn't read that before now. Even still, if you only get off one energy drain per attack, that's not too bad if you combine it with a bunch of the warforged racial feats and a few levels of Warforged Juggernaut.

Wouldn't it be a stardard action and a touch attack to bestow a negative enrgy levels? Its a supernatural ability.

Tavar
2010-04-05, 03:17 PM
Or you could do it kukris and be truly infinite. Nice match though.

Range is pretty useful, though. Depends on the match conditions, I guess.

Grifthin
2010-04-05, 03:23 PM
Ur-Priest could also work. Because by 15, you'll have finished it, and gotten 9th level casting. Bonus points for Sublime Ur-Theurge shenanigans, but I don't think it gets double nines by 15, even if those levels are a sweet spot for it.

Say what ? Is this some kind of arcane/devine hybrid ? Linky pleasE ?:smallwink:

subject42
2010-04-05, 03:27 PM
Wouldn't it be a stardard action and a touch attack to bestow a negative enrgy levels? Its a supernatural ability.

I'm away from my books, but I thought it could be through any melee natural attack.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-05, 03:28 PM
Say what ? Is this some kind of arcane/devine hybrid ? Linky pleasE ?:smallwink:

It's a very broken PrC that gives you 9th divine level spells in 9 levels. Sublime chord is the same, except it's normally balanced out by being bard only to improve their slow progression.

Boci
2010-04-05, 03:29 PM
I'm away from my books, but I thought it could be through any melee natural attack.

Seems logical, but there is no mention of it in the Soul Eater's class features as far as I can see.

jiriku
2010-04-05, 03:33 PM
I believe the build combines bard, sublime chord, ur-priest, and mystic theurge. Bards learn bard spells. Sublime chord essentially nails on accelerated spell progression up to 9th level off the sorcerer list. Ur-priest adds in accelerated cleric casting up to 9th level. Mystic theurge progresses both at once. By the time you finish the progression, you more or less cast like a full sorcerer and a full cleric.

Elfin
2010-04-05, 03:37 PM
Well, for non-spellcasting characters you could always use the 1d2 Crusader for an infinite damage loop...but any DM with even a hint of sanity will ban that as soon as you try it.

gorfnab
2010-04-06, 12:09 AM
Well for Ur-Priest an easy entry would be Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 10 for 9th level spells and Steal SLA (wish or miracle depending on what you can bind/summon) otherwise I like Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 8 for 9th level spells and Warlock advancement (finishing the build with 2 more levels of Eldritch Disciple and 3 of Hellfire Warlock).

For Reference
Warlock - Complete Arcane
Ur-Priest - Complete Divine
Binder - Tome of Magic
Eldritch Disciple - Complete Mage
Hellfire Warlock - Fiendish Codex II

sofawall
2010-04-06, 12:23 AM
Borg Cube and Fluffy are pretty appalling, but neither can be described as even close to simple.

Grifthin
2010-04-06, 03:58 AM
Well for Ur-Priest an easy entry would be Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 10 for 9th level spells and Steal SLA (wish or miracle depending on what you can bind/summon) otherwise I like Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 8 for 9th level spells and Warlock advancement (finishing the build with 2 more levels of Eldritch Disciple and 3 of Hellfire Warlock).

For Reference
Warlock - Complete Arcane
Ur-Priest - Complete Divine
Binder - Tome of Magic
Eldritch Disciple - Complete Mage
Hellfire Warlock - Fiendish Codex II

What exactly are the best vestiges for the first setup you mentioned ?

Eldariel
2010-04-06, 10:30 AM
What exactly are the best vestiges for the first setup you mentioned ?

Naberius. Regenerate your Con-damage each round; Hellfire with impunity.

FMArthur
2010-04-06, 11:07 AM
Most Broken: BEHOLDER MAGE

Get Manifester Level 5 (and a psionic bonus feat on that level) to qualify for Metamorphic Transfer
Buy a casting or two of Polymorph Any Object
Enter Beholder Mage at level 6
Win D&D forever

The Beholder Mage (Lords of Madness) Casts from the Wizard/Sorceror list
Gets equivalent to a Sorceror's spells/day in 10 levels
Casts spontaneously but learns an unlimited number of spells
Casts spells as free actions, once per spell level per round
Effortlessly ends friendships

Feel free to take Cerebremancer after Beholder Mage 2 to progress your psion alongside; more builds include Ur-Priest and Mystic Theurge, and Tainted Scholar works with it. I'd call it 'icing on the cake' but those are more like extra layers on an already huge cake, you greedy wretch. :smallwink:

Most Straightforward: Water Orc Barbarian 15
Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper if you like. You hit stuff and do a lot of damage. Don't worry about flight or other things. That's someone else's job. You're useful enough that the casters will help you along rather than leave you behind.

Most Straightforward: Dragonborn Water Orc Paladin 15
Grab a noncasting paladin variant and trade your mount for a Drakkensteed Mount, which can fly. Take Spirited Charge and pick up a +1 Valorous Lance. According to your Dragonborn template, you multiply piercing weapon damage by 2 when making a diving charge from the air. Because your mount can fly, you can make a mounted diving charge. A diving, valorous Spirited Charge with a lance has its damage multiplied by 6. With some Power Attack this should net you large damage with relative safety and little effort; repeat it endlessly. There are other ways to improve this, particularly PrCs, but that would be less straightforward.

Flickerdart
2010-04-06, 12:04 PM
I believe the build combines bard, sublime chord, ur-priest, and mystic theurge. Bards learn bard spells. Sublime chord essentially nails on accelerated spell progression up to 9th level off the sorcerer list. Ur-priest adds in accelerated cleric casting up to 9th level. Mystic theurge progresses both at once. By the time you finish the progression, you more or less cast like a full sorcerer and a full cleric.
Savage Bard (UA Variant) for the high Fort save to get into Ur-Priest. The build gets dual nines faster, but at 20th level you're better off with Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Wizard PrC 3.

jdfollett
2010-04-10, 04:16 PM
The most broken level 15 character, or character of any level for that matter is a monk(any race) that has taken the vow of poverty from the exalted handbook. Hands down the sickest character build outside of casters.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-04-10, 04:24 PM
The most broken level 15 character, or character of any level for that matter is a monk(any race) that has taken the vow of poverty from the exalted handbook. Hands down the sickest character build outside of casters.

Er, no, not really. WBL for 15 is much better than the free, subpar Exalted feats from Vow of Poverty. Monks are heavily gear dependent, and, unless they're a raptoran or some other naturally flying race, they've got no way to deal with anyone who can fly.

Flickerdart
2010-04-10, 04:58 PM
The most broken level 15 character, or character of any level for that matter is a monk(any race) that has taken the vow of poverty from the exalted handbook. Hands down the sickest character build outside of casters.
That's so hilariously wrong. Aside from, as mentioned, not being able to fly, Monks with Vow of Poverty will never be able to make use of Enlarge Person or any other number of awesome buffs in potion form without a Wizard wasting his slots on them. They'll never be able to get a Necklace of Natural Attacks to fix their fists' uselessness. They'll end up lower on stats that everyone else because they won't have the +6 item OR the +5 Inherent tome bonus. A Commoner with WBL could wipe out this Monk just by buying an item that lets them fly and make any sort of attack. Vow of Poverty works well on Druids, Sorcerers and Psions...and that's really about it.

Frozen_Feet
2010-04-10, 05:37 PM
You know, your recappign exactly why they are broken. VoP monks just reside in the opposite end of the broken range than Beholder Mage & Co.

Flickerdart
2010-04-10, 05:46 PM
You know, your recappign exactly why they are broken. VoP monks just reside in the opposite end of the broken range than Beholder Mage & Co.
No, that would be a VoP Truenamer. VoP Monk merely wallows in mediocrity.

Draz74
2010-04-10, 05:53 PM
No, that would be a VoP Truenamer. VoP Monk merely wallows in mediocrity.

No, that would be a VoP CW Samurai. VoP Truenamer merely wallows in mediocrity. :smallbiggrin:

Flickerdart
2010-04-10, 05:57 PM
No, that would be a VoP CW Samurai. VoP Truenamer merely wallows in mediocrity. :smallbiggrin:
A VoP CW Samurai still gets a club he can beat people about the head and neck with. Without check-boosting items, a Truenamer will never make some checks, and have a pathetic chance (15% or so) on the ones he can make. Truenamer is tier-less for a reason.

The Glyphstone
2010-04-10, 06:20 PM
The most broken level 15 character, or character of any level for that matter is a monk(any race) that has taken the vow of poverty from the exalted handbook. Hands down the sickest character build outside of casters.


http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g29/rikuana/I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

magic9mushroom
2010-04-10, 06:37 PM
Since noone's already posted it... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7820957&postcount=49)

Short version: Double 9s with Tainted Casting and 12 spells/round.

(That's at level 15, btw)

sofawall
2010-04-10, 06:37 PM
A Commoner with WBL

NPC WBL even.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-10, 07:04 PM
Since noone's already posted it... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7820957&postcount=49)

Short version: Double 9s with Tainted Casting and 12 spells/round.

(That's at level 15, btw)

...And one solid dispel away from losing all the arcane casting and most of the spells per round.

KellKheraptis
2010-04-10, 09:57 PM
...And one solid dispel away from losing all the arcane casting and most of the spells per round.

Nah. If you're packing that kind of heat, the DM won't bat an eyelash at using the Dusk Giant trick to snag Epic Spellcasting for a day and making it an instantaneous transformation.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-10, 10:18 PM
Nah. If you're packing that kind of heat, the DM won't bat an eyelash at using the Dusk Giant trick to snag Epic Spellcasting for a day and making it an instantaneous transformation.

The issue is that out of the box characters rarely get that kind of leeway for "during character creation".

Add in that the epic spell in question would need to be researched, requiring more than a day, and since we're researching to create new material, and such things need explicit review, assistance, and approval from the DM, it's outside the bounds of normal character creation.

Otherwise, there's nothing to stop anyone from responding to this thread with:

Wizard 1 / Commoner 14.

Snag a researched level 1 spell:

I win
Universal
Level 1 spell (any spellcasting class)
Target: Personal
Casting time: Immediate Action
Duration: Instantaneous
Components: None

Effect: This spell can be cast while flat-footed. The caster becomes immune to any effect unless he/she wishes to be affected, always acts first in any combat round, always gets to act in the surprise round, automatically knows the identity of anyone who will ever become a threat to him/her, and may, as a free action, utterly destroy any being he/she wishes. There is no save and no SR to this effect, and all abilities granted are (Ex) in nature, and function regardless of protections, immunities, or divine rank.

There. If we're relying on "I can create new spells", this character takes the cake.

erikun
2010-04-10, 10:28 PM
I wouldn't call Beholder Mage straightforward, considering what you need to go through to become a Beholder permanently.

Probably the most straightfoward that I can think of are Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 4 (7th level wizard/5th level cleric casting, and only goes up from there), Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Heirophant 9 (full abilities of a 12th level wizard and 12th level druid, go Mystic Theurge after AH 10), or just a Bard 15 (full UMD, full Diplomancy, grab some feats for combat usefulness).

I'm sure others can do better. I seem to recall a 6th level Commoner/Marshall riding around on Battletitans, after all.

KellKheraptis
2010-04-10, 10:37 PM
The issue is that out of the box characters rarely get that kind of leeway for "during character creation".

Add in that the epic spell in question would need to be researched, requiring more than a day, and since we're researching to create new material, and such things need explicit review, assistance, and approval from the DM, it's outside the bounds of normal character creation.

Otherwise, there's nothing to stop anyone from responding to this thread with:

Wizard 1 / Commoner 14.

Snag a researched level 1 spell:

I win
Universal
Level 1 spell (any spellcasting class)
Target: Personal
Casting time: Immediate Action
Duration: Instantaneous
Components: None

Effect: This spell can be cast while flat-footed. The caster becomes immune to any effect unless he/she wishes to be affected, always acts first in any combat round, always gets to act in the surprise round, automatically knows the identity of anyone who will ever become a threat to him/her, and may, as a free action, utterly destroy any being he/she wishes. There is no save and no SR to this effect, and all abilities granted are (Ex) in nature, and function regardless of protections, immunities, or divine rank.

There. If we're relying on "I can create new spells", this character takes the cake.

Yes and no. My personal take on it uses SCM to emulate the needed epic spell once I have Epic Spellcasting, so I never need to spend a second or a copper getting the spell. Shadow ftw. Really, between me and Magic's work here, and the extensive breaking of the SCM we've seen on BG, we've concluded that the unholy trinity is some combo of SCM/Tainted Sorcerer/Ultimate Magus or Incantatrix (depending upon whether or not you're going to abuse Master Spellthief for a big CL). Beholder Mage at that point is just icing on the cake, and really, with epic spells on board, even the mighty Dal Quor Planar Shepherd can be emulated easily enough with a mythal prevalent power (which btw is Evocation). Combine with literally every spell or power ever from an at-will Shadow Miracle greater effect, and you've got effectively arbitrary power. You can simply play an incredibly versatile GOD BFC-er, or you can take the kid gloves off and rub elbows with your first cousin Pun-pun. Think of Odin...he'd walk around as a hermit or bum, and then just when you wanna punch him in the face he'd walk up a rainbow or throw a mountain, just because :P

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-10, 11:10 PM
Yes and no. My personal take on it uses SCM to emulate the needed epic spell once I have Epic Spellcasting, so I never need to spend a second or a copper getting the spell. Shadow ftw. Really, between me and Magic's work here, and the extensive breaking of the SCM we've seen on BG, we've concluded that the unholy trinity is some combo of SCM/Tainted Sorcerer/Ultimate Magus or Incantatrix (depending upon whether or not you're going to abuse Master Spellthief for a big CL). Beholder Mage at that point is just icing on the cake, and really, with epic spells on board, even the mighty Dal Quor Planar Shepherd can be emulated easily enough with a mythal prevalent power (which btw is Evocation). Combine with literally every spell or power ever from an at-will Shadow Miracle greater effect, and you've got effectively arbitrary power. You can simply play an incredibly versatile GOD BFC-er, or you can take the kid gloves off and rub elbows with your first cousin Pun-pun. Think of Odin...he'd walk around as a hermit or bum, and then just when you wanna punch him in the face he'd walk up a rainbow or throw a mountain, just because :P
SCM can only duplicate spells with a level. While an epic spell is treated as a 10th level spell when it is referenced, it is not a 10th level spell. Just because all beach balls are round, does not mean that all round things are beach balls.

Further, you can't SCM to replicate a spell that doesn't exist. SCM can duplicate the effects of spells. Duplicate. As in Recreate. Create does not equal recreate. You need it to exist before you can emulate it.

In addition, you still require DM acceptance of homebrew (your instantaneous turn into a beholder spell), which puts it as equally valid to the level 1 spell I posted above.

Doc Roc
2010-04-12, 04:44 AM
We have certainly left topic. It's not simple, but my favorite of my builds, all of which count as stupidly powerful, is probably Elly.

Because Swiftblades With Nines!

Honestly, you could probably just tack two levels onto almost any ToS character, even what we consider weak ones, and be happy.

magic9mushroom
2010-04-12, 06:40 AM
...And one solid dispel away from losing all the arcane casting and most of the spells per round.

Oh, FINE, then.

Hatchling Phaerimm Sorcerer 5/Tainted Scholar 10 with Ritual of Alignment (Evil) and Arcane Disciple (Luck).

Wish and Miracle at-will SLA with no XP costs.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-12, 06:55 AM
Oh, FINE, then.

Hatchling Phaerimm Sorcerer 5/Tainted Scholar 10 with Ritual of Alignment (Evil) and Arcane Disciple (Luck).

Wish and Miracle at-will SLA with no XP costs.

Incorrect. Caster level 30, but effective sorceror level 16.

Phaerimm states that CASTER LEVEL = Phaerimm's HD, not Effective Sorceror Level.

This means you default to the table (only place Phaerimm Effective Sorc Levels are listed), and what do we see?

Hatchling Phaerimm cast as level 1 sorcerors.

So, hatchling Phaerimm cast as level 1 sorcerors, with CL = HD.
Which means a Hatchling Phaerimm with 15 levels that advance sorceror is?

Level 16 sorceror, CL 30.

Strong, yes.
Level 9 spells? No.

magic9mushroom
2010-04-12, 07:35 AM
Incorrect. Caster level 30, but effective sorceror level 16.

Phaerimm states that CASTER LEVEL = Phaerimm's HD, not Effective Sorceror Level.

This means you default to the table (only place Phaerimm Effective Sorc Levels are listed), and what do we see?

Hatchling Phaerimm cast as level 1 sorcerors.

So, hatchling Phaerimm cast as level 1 sorcerors, with CL = HD.
Which means a Hatchling Phaerimm with 15 levels that advance sorceror is?

Level 16 sorceror, CL 30.

Strong, yes.
Level 9 spells? No.

The table also lists "Caster level".

You can't read one one way and the other the other.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-12, 07:46 AM
The table also lists "Caster level".

You can't read one one way and the other the other.

Oh, my. You're right.

Let's read them both the same way.


A hatchling casts spells as a 1st level sorceror, while a centuries old Revered Elder is a 19th level caster.
Open and shut. A hatchling casts spells as a 1st level sorceror. Full stop.

Caster level is totally seperate, and text trumps table, so it's equal to character level, stacking.

Final interpretation?

Hatchling Phaerimm (Sorceror lvl 1, and text above trumps table) + Sorceror 5 + tainted scholar 10 = Sorceror level 16.

Caster level = Sorceror 5 + Tainted Scholar 10 = 15, + 15 (Phaerimm HD) = 30

gooddragon1
2010-04-12, 11:44 AM
Of course, you could always go with festering anger lad at level 1.


Mind Over Body [General]

Your ability damage heals more rapidly.
Prerequisite

Con 13.
Benefit

You heal ability damage and ability burn damage more quickly than normal. You heal a number of ability points per day equal to 1 + your Constitution bonus.
Normal

You heal ability damage and ability burn damage at a rate of 1 point per day.

Just get a high constitution score. Festering anger is a disease that causes +2 Strength and -2 Constitution every day. Yes +2 strength. Mind over body will completely offset the damage while you are on your way to becoming he-man.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-12, 12:07 PM
Of course, you could always go with festering anger lad at level 1.



Just get a high constitution score. Festering anger is a disease that causes +2 Strength and -2 Constitution every day. Yes +2 strength. Mind over body will completely offset the damage while you are on your way to becoming he-man.

Or you could Bind Naberius for healing 1 ability damage to all scores every round...

Vulaas
2010-04-12, 12:17 PM
Or be a cancer mage, tack on 5 more levels, and submit it to the Iron Optimizer challenge.

jdfollett
2010-05-30, 07:33 PM
Wow, lotta hate.


Ok, now for my defense.
Yes, a lot of the characters described here are much more powerful than the monk with vop, and yes the monk with vop is behind in the stat and damage categories, but think about this. None of his abilities can be taken away. No anti-magic cone, no anti-magic field. Spellcasters are weak and a character who is dependant on his gear for his very survival is a weakling. And assuming the DM allows all of the varied prestige classes in the game. And lets not go into hypothetical characters here. Lets assume that these are actual characters that have been used in a game.
Oh and flying, its called abundant step and the other party members. And a wizard having to use some slots to let the monk be even more amazing is not a huge burden. Its about fun, not min/maxing. And most of the characters i saw listed were min/max characters.

Rin_Hunter
2010-05-30, 07:37 PM
Warlock.
Eldritch Glaive.
Maximise Spell-like Ability (Eldritch Blast).

See my "Wait... What?" thread for detail... Maybe it's just me being bitter about it :smalltongue:

The Glyphstone
2010-05-30, 07:40 PM
..the Vow of Poverty is Supernatural. All of it goes away in an AMF.

"Spellcasters are weak": You didn't actually read anything in the thread, did you?

Abundant Step is as Dimension Door, which means you can't act after using it. Congratulations, you have made a beautiful monk-shaped splatter pattern on the ground below the flying wizard.

"A character who depends on his gear for survival is a high level adventurer. If they were a 'weakling', you wouldn't need WBL or VoP to survive at high levels - the game is balanced around the math of having magic items.

Other party members working to make their friends better is good. Other party members having to expend resources to compensate for their 'friend's utter dead weight and uselessness is not.

Nohwl
2010-05-30, 09:49 PM
Wow, lotta hate.


Ok, now for my defense.
Yes, a lot of the characters described here are much more powerful than the monk with vop, and yes the monk with vop is behind in the stat and damage categories, but think about this. None of his abilities can be taken away. No anti-magic cone, no anti-magic field. Spellcasters are weak and a character who is dependant on his gear for his very survival is a weakling. And assuming the DM allows all of the varied prestige classes in the game. And lets not go into hypothetical characters here. Lets assume that these are actual characters that have been used in a game.
Oh and flying, its called abundant step and the other party members. And a wizard having to use some slots to let the monk be even more amazing is not a huge burden. Its about fun, not min/maxing. And most of the characters i saw listed were min/max characters.

the op asked for a character for one on one pvp combat. other party members and a wizard to buff you are probably not options.

mikej
2010-05-30, 10:03 PM
Warlock.
Eldritch Glaive.
Maximise Spell-like Ability (Eldritch Blast).

See my "Wait... What?" thread for detail... Maybe it's just me being bitter about it :smalltongue:

That's only marginally threatening if you add Hellfire Warlock with some either Bloodlines or Legacy Champion. At least in my opinion.

Has the OP done this PvP game or not? I'm just curious.

monkey3
2010-05-30, 10:53 PM
The Leech:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8190.0

Is the most powerful straightforward 16th level character I know. Then again, I am biased :smallsmile:

I have to admit, he is nothing special at 15th.

Curmudgeon
2010-05-30, 11:43 PM
The answer is the same: Druid 15 with Natural Spell and Eschew Materials, plus wide exposure to the various forms suitable for wild shape. Covers both broken (starting with all-the-time Control Weather) and straightforward.

Eric Phail
2010-05-31, 09:13 AM
Just a Question here how are people theurging Sublime Chord, or for that matter the build with only 1 level of Ur-Priest

I presume the chord is done by learning a 2nd level spell then having to use it in a fourth level slot (or just never using it).

But how with only 1 Ur-Priest Level, Magic Mushroom? (Since it's your build)

Boci
2010-05-31, 09:27 AM
Wow, lotta hate.

Not hate, just disagreeing with you.


Oh and flying, its called abundant step

Oh that 1/day, limited ranged ability that doesn't allow you to attack afterwards?


and the other party members.

Any character with flaws covered by other party members. Broken characters shouldn't need to realy on others so readily.


Its about fun, not min/maxing.

Not if someone asks for broken characters.


And most of the characters i saw listed were min/max characters.

Again, the request was broken characters. A lot (but not all) broken builds involve min/maxing.

Ruinix
2010-05-31, 12:34 PM
can i say planar shepard? oohhh sh!t i said :(

well planar shepard.

Dal Quor = 10 round per 1 round of enemy. = profit.

2xMachina
2010-05-31, 12:40 PM
There's nothing stopping you from custom planing actually. Get a scroll of genesis, get your party wizard to cast it (with all the crazy traits). Attune to that plane. Anything you want, you've got it.

Mystic Muse
2010-05-31, 12:43 PM
We have certainly left topic. It's not simple, but my favorite of my builds, all of which count as stupidly powerful, is probably Elly.

Because Swiftblades With Nines!

what's Elly?:smallconfused:

And no, Monks with VOP are not broken at all. And casters aren't weak unless specifically or accidentally built to be weak.