First time playing a rogue in 3.x - help!

[Shecky]

Our gaming group's been off (real-life issues all around) for about a year, but we're about to start back up. The DM, for various reasons, wants to do a total reboot, and for various other reasons, some of the players are adjusting what they want to play. As a result, it lets me not have to step into my usual tank role. Plus, the guy who's been dual-classing sorc and rogue would really like to go straight arcane (well, with a level or two splashed of something else plus a prestige class when the time comes, but pretty much straight-up sorc otherwise), and I've volunteered to do roguely duties.

I'm pretty confident I could play a straight rogue. The issue is that we're a four-person party: aforementioned sorc, straight-up fighter, cleric and me. It would be a real relief if I were able to step in with my rogue and contribute substantially to melee, if for nothing else than to cut down on baddies flanking our fighter. Preferably, I'd retain high skill in trap-disabling and lock-opening, but be able to step up to the plate as well in melee combat as well.

Already going the Weapon Finesse route ASAP, and I was thinking of splashing 2 levels of Ranger for TWF.

Here are the restrictions on the build:
- Race: dwarf only (flavor requires)
- Campaign setting: Eberron
- Books: Core and close-to-core (with race and class from the core books)
- Multi-classing: very little or backstory-consistent
- 32 points
- No bigtime min-maxing
- Prestige class: see multi-classing (one PrC is perfectly fine)
- GOT to keep Search/Spot/Open Lock/Disable Device jacked up; our DM is challenging on traps and locks as well as on ambushes.

One final question: is there a feat or a non-weird class/PrC that allows you to add INT to AC? One way to be helpful in melee would be to be damned hard to hit; even if a finessable weapon doesn't dish out the damage, I could at least whittle 'em down, taking some of the heat off our fighter but keeping my squishy skin relatively safe, if my AC could get boosted without draining one of our casters' spells.

[Boci]

Barbarian 2 / Rogue X works okay, granting a bit more HP and better BAB, as well as rage which can be used to qualify for snow tiger beserker from Unaprochable East. It also cancels out the move penalty of dwarfs.

[Caphi]

Instead of ranger 2 for TWF, why not fighter 2?

[Ernir]

- No bigtime min-maxing
- Prestige class: see multi-classing (one PrC is perfectly fine)
- GOT to keep Search/Spot/Open Lock/Disable Device jacked up; our DM is challenging on traps and locks as well as on ambushes.

Sounds like you have your build. :smalltongue:

Near core, a standard, not-minmaxed Rogue would just take Weapon Finesse, the Two-Weapon Fighting line, and be mostly good to go.

The least obscure ways to add your Int to your AC would be the core Duelist class, and the Invisible Blade PrC in Complete Warrior, I think. There is a bunch of ways if you hunt the splatbooks. Are there any specific restrictions on what you can use?

[Curmudgeon]

Barbarian 2 / Rogue X works okay
That'll be a 20% XP penalty as soon as X = 4. With the DM being strict about limited multiclassing, I think this is a bad idea.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Well, non-weird PrCs that add Int to AC include the Duelist (DMG) and the Invisible Blade (CW), a fighter-style rogue that fights with knives, gets some AC and AB boosts, and can feint as a free action. But its prerequisites are wholly out of line with its class abilities (point blank shot line). And it's from CW, which I think is beyond your game allowances.

Honestly, you're not gonna get to be all that wonderful as a straight core rogue. Your combat abilities, while dangerous, are ridiculously limited, both situationally (flat-footed or flanked opponents) and based on your enemies (vulnerable to sneak attacks), AND your attack bonus will always be several points behind a proper fighter's. You do have skills, they are pretty much all you have to work with. If your party desperately needs a trapfinder, I guess you're falling into that role by default, so keep your trapfinding skills high.

Your real crown ability is Use Magic Device, which is an expensive way to keep up in a fight. Try to get yourself a few wands of spells like Wraithstrike (attacks for this round are resolved as touch attacks), Golemstrike (sneak attack constructs) or Gravestrike (sneak attack undead). Unless the game won't allow non-core spells either (those are from the Spell Compendium, I believe), in which case, grab a wand of Grease, cross your fingers and pray that you mostly fight squishy foes.

[Tinydwarfman]

Instead of ranger 2 for TWF, why not fighter 2?

More skills, an animal companion, and track? Granted, the companion will be completly sucky unless you focus on it, but skills and track are a plus in my book. (Also may count as a divine caster if your DM rules it like that, eliminating UMD for some stuff)

[Telonius]

Well, the Duelist PrC from the DMG gets INT to AC when not using armor or a shield. However you're probably better off not worrying about that. Focus on giving yourself miss chance instead.

Ranger is a pretty good choice if you're restricted to Core classes. It gives you better weapon selection, access to shields, better HP, and a bunch of other goodies. If you can go beyond Core, Swashbuckler is better, if you take Daring Outlaw.

EDIT: In building your character, remember that there is no law that says Rogues have to focus on Dex. Especially since you're looking at either Ranger or Barbarian, you don't have to go the Finesse route if you don't want to.

[Curmudgeon]

With core books you'll lack Craven, the single most important Rogue feat there is; it's in Champions of Ruin. You'll also miss out on the Penetrating Strike ACF; that's in Dungeonscape.

Frankly, your best core bet is to aim for Shadowdancer at the first opportunity: level 8. Then you take Spring Attack as your level 9 feat to double up your return on the common investment of Dodge + Mobility. Forget about Two-Weapon Fighting, because

you can't afford the attack penalties
you can't afford the feat tree
you can't survive full counterattacks if you full attack
If you can afford it, buy Mobility as an armor enhancement instead of spending a feat.

Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight, with max Hide skill, is just awesome. You'll be able to full attack while hiding against enemies with poor Spot skills; and you can Spring Attack against enemies with better Spot. As long as your Hide check beats your enemy's Spot number, you'll get to add sneak attack damage.

[jiriku]

Rogue Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871666/The_3.5_Rogue_Handbook)

If you're forced to remain in core, I strongly suggest you take a look at Combat Expertise and Improved Trip as a means to contribute more in combat. Tripping is one of the most powerful tactics you can use in melee combat, and Combat Expertise is an effective means to shore up your AC.

Also, pack a few flasks of acid -- you can make a ranged sneak attack with an acid flask, and it's a touch attack to hit, so it's helpful against airborne foes or enemies with high AC but poor touch AC.

In fact, at low levels you could really fill a strong role as a debuffer by packing equipment like tanglefoot bags and nets (don't bother with the exotic weapon proficiency, you only need to hit touch AC so just throw them non-proficient). When your foes are prone, entangled, and immobilized, the party fighter should make short work of them.

Sadly, this won't help you much against larger foes, but it will work against most humanoid undead, so it'll give you something to do against them, since they're immune to your sneak attack.

[Boci]

That'll be a 20% XP penalty as soon as X = 4. With the DM being strict about limited multiclassing, I think this is a bad idea.

Depending on exactly what "close-to-core" means there could be a good rogue prestige class to take.

[d13]

More skills, an animal companion, and track? Granted, the companion will be completly sucky unless you focus on it, but skills and track are a plus in my book. (Also may count as a divine caster if your DM rules it like that, eliminating UMD for some stuff)

Well... Your companion will suck, because it doesn't even exist at Ranger 2 :smalltongue:

And your DM doesn't have to rule anything. You shouldn't need a UMD check for your ranger spells.

[snoopy13a]

How about a rogue/fighter?

I know it isn't very optimized but it sounds like your games aren't geared for optimization.

Just dip into Rogue to keep your skills up and only invest in open lock, disable device, search and spot. Since Fighter is the dwarf's favored class, you won't have to worry about any multiclass penalties. You could also use the Fighter feats to make yourself a tripper. Thus, you'd act as crowd control and skill monkey. However, you wouldn't be that good of a sneaky rogue.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd say forget multiclassing into Ranger or Fighter or Barbarian or whatever, and just trade your sneak attack for bonus feats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue). If you wanted the Ranger-feel of an outdoorsman, use Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) instead, which is an exceptional improvement on the class anyway. Be sure to get Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight at 10 and 13, and you won't really even have much reason to prestige class out.

[Curmudgeon]

Depending on exactly what "close-to-core" means there could be a good rogue prestige class to take.
We weren't discussing prestige classes, but rather the multiclassing penalties for multiple base classes. There are no XP penalties for PrCs.

[Boci]

We weren't discussing prestige classes, but rather the multiclassing penalties for multiple base classes. There are no XP penalties for PrCs.

Yeah, so he could go barbarian 2 / rogue 3 / PrC 10, which could see him through to the end of the game.

[Gahrer]

If you are evil (or can have the DM loosen the preqs) assassin is a nice way to go. Death attack is ok, hide in plain sight is awesome and you get spells. (Greater) Invisibility helps a lot to get sneak-attack-able targets. If you are able to mine the spell compendium then wraithstrike works wonders. Going greater invis+Wraithstrike+Hasted (by the sorcerer) + TWF = A LOT of sneak attack damage.

[Godskook]

See if you can dip swordsage from ToB, even if just a little. If so, get 2-4 levels, timing it right to snag Assassin's Stance(As either your 2nd level stance if you dip late, or your 5th level stance if you take it early), and pick up Shadow Blade. The stance gives +2d6 SA and activates Shadow Blade's +Dex to damage, which is doubly nice. With 3/4 BAB and Weapon Focus, you can spend up to 4 levels in it without your to-hit suffering.

Why Dwarf? In most ways, the Dwarf *SCREAMS* not-a-rogue:
-Con is only slightly better for the rogue than the wizard, but the Rogue has quite a few good Charisma skills that Dwarves aren't good at.
-Land speed is a drawback to a class that doesn't like being encumbered
-Rogues like being small or smaller for the ease of mobility.
-Dwarf has Favored Class: Fighter, which should be a red flag, really, even if you're not using multiclass penalties.

[Tinydwarfman]

Well... Your companion will suck, because it doesn't even exist at Ranger 2 :smalltongue:

And your DM doesn't have to rule anything. You shouldn't need a UMD check for your ranger spells.

Oops, right, I forgot other people don't play with my houserules (ranger gets druid companion). :smallredface:

Some people think that since a ranger doesn't have a CL or any spells till he hits 4th, he can't use the items yet. I can't recall an official WoTC ruling one way or the other.

[Shecky]

Yup, I know that dwarves are certainly not optimal for rogues, but as I said, flavor/story aspects demand it. That's part of why I'm looking for input - ways to counterbalance the non-optimal situation. To be honest, "optimization" as it's usually seen (which looks a lot like min-maxing to our group) isn't the desirable route for us; what IS the desirable route is a non-uber-specialized character. One that's good at what he does but non-sucky at other roles.

As has been suggested, my splash may be in fighter, since that's the non-penalty class for dwarves. And the variant rogue may be just the thing if the DM and group permit - being a feat monkey is NEVER a bad thing!

I'm still a couple of days away from going with a final choice, so keep 'em coming; these suggestions are certainly eye-opening. :)

[Shecky]

How about a rogue/fighter?

I know it isn't very optimized but it sounds like your games aren't geared for optimization.

Just dip into Rogue to keep your skills up and only invest in open lock, disable device, search and spot. Since Fighter is the dwarf's favored class, you won't have to worry about any multiclass penalties. You could also use the Fighter feats to make yourself a tripper. Thus, you'd act as crowd control and skill monkey. However, you wouldn't be that good of a sneaky rogue.

Y'know, somehow I skimmed right past this post earlier, and I don't know why. This would seem ideal for a trap/lockpick rogue who nevertheless needs to be able to help with melee; the party-helping aspects of a tripper (start out combat with a whip to trip, and since it's a TOUCH attack, that counterbalances the -4 nonproficiency on the exotic weapon, then drop the whip and draw short swords to close in for a cheap shot or two) are VERY appealing to me. And while it would slow down the sneak attack progression, it wouldn't eliminate it as with the rogue variant class. Hmm.

So, build-monkeys out there, got any advice on how best to build this rogue/fighter for max or near-max thiefly skills but still make him a reasonable melee support to help out the single melee character our group has?

[Simba]

A lot depends on your desire to be sneaky as well as the trap/lock expert. If sneaking is not necessary, make Str and Int your main stats, followed by Con, Dex, Wis and Cha, in that order. Take Rogue 1/Fighter 2/Rogue x and wear armor. Noone says that Rogues need to be dextrous, right? It improves your combat abilities, your AC (magical armor) and damage output while leaving your key abilities intact.

[Shecky]

A lot depends on your desire to be sneaky as well as the trap/lock expert. If sneaking is not necessary, make Str and Int your main stats, followed by Con, Dex, Wis and Cha, in that order. Take Rogue 1/Fighter 2/Rogue x and wear armor. Noone says that Rogues need to be dextrous, right? It improves your combat abilities, your AC (magical armor) and damage output while leaving your key abilities intact.

I'm still leaning towards Int/Dex - skill-monkeyness from Int and Dex alike, and Weapon Finesse from Dex. I've pretty much GOT to keep roguely skills (i.e., Disable Device, Open Lock, etc.) at or near max; the DM is great for making challenges that are doable but demanding. Sneakiness... solo sneaking will likely be rare, according to past history, but I'd like to keep that reasonably good because, well, after all, he IS a rogue. Does all that invalidate the rogue/fighter build? I really am a noob at 3.x rogues and would love to see any and all input, no matter how dumbed-down.

[strider24seven]

Because you're core/close-to-core, you lack some important classes and feats.

1)The aforementioned Craven, limiting your Sneak Attack to many d6's
2)Darkstalker, from Lords of Madness, which lets you hide from things with Blindsense, Tremorsense... basically everything except Mindsight.
3)Ways to hide again/Sneak Attack again. You're pretty much stuck going 9 Assassin, 1 Shadowdancer, or high level Ranger. You're missing all the cool Tome of Battle feats like Gloom Razor.
4)Without Sneak Attack, you are seriously strapped for damage, as you are probably a high-DEX, low-STR character. You can't even use an Elven Greatblade (whatever it is that can finessed and use 2x Power Attack).

To alleviate this, I would suggest going Rogue 16/Fighter 4, and dual-wield kukris. Keep a spear or something with reach in your pack, and a greatsword (or anything with high base damage) to fight crit-immune enemies. If you can, have at least 13 STR and take Power Attack.

And it's just a damn shame you can't use Factotum from Dungeonscape, as from level 3, it's a fighter 1/encounter straight from the box!

Edit: If you are pressed and can't hide, use Climb. It's a very underrated skill.

Edit Edit: Hiding is -extremely- important when used correctly. If you are not going to use it for scouting/surprise round shenanigans, don't bother using it. I.E. use it to get your party a surprise round by jumping the enemy.

[Zherog]

Some people think that since a ranger doesn't have a CL or any spells till he hits 4th, he can't use the items yet. I can't recall an official WoTC ruling one way or the other.

It's in the FAQ. I don't have a copy with me, but as I recall the answer was specifically about the paladin, but since the pally has the same spell progression rules as the ranger, the ruling applies to rangers as well.

[Shecky]

Well, after further consideration and discussion with another player, I've decided to go full-on rogue. May splash a level of wizard (a few useful spells and wand/scroll use), could decide to go Heir of Siberys (would fit with character background), but for now, I'm sticking with roguely tasks and building accordingly

[strider24seven]

IMO, Beguiler would be a little better for a rogue.
1) Better skill synergy
2) More flexible spells.

[Draz74]

I played a Dwarf Rogue in a Core-only game a couple characters ago. Worked fine.

My suggestion is to splash a few levels of Fighter (two early, eventually two more) for extra feats, and get Improved Shield Bash and TWF. Sneak attack things with your Dwarven Waraxe and Spiked Shield.

If you're going to ask your DM for non-Core features at all, my #1 recommendation would be the Penetrating Strike alternate feature from Dungeonscape (i.e. Sneak Attack half-works against undead and constructs, as long as you flank them).

[Boci]

If you're going to sk your DM for non-Core features at all, my #1 recommendation would be the Penetrating Strike alternate feature from Dungeonscape (i.e. Sneak Attack half-works against undead and constructs, as long as you flank them).

Light bringer rogue from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft is better. Same benefit but you only need to give up trap sense, but its from a more obscure sourcebook so its not as often used.

[Lin Bayaseda]

If what you need is a trap-monkey, I suggest Tactile Trapsmith (Complete Adventurer) as your feat of choice. It makes Search and Disable Device work off Dex instead of Int. You can now dump Int, along with the usual dump-stats Wis and Cha. Then, on level 3, take Weapon Finesse and your attack roll also works off Dex, and you can dump Str as well. You'll need a reasonable Con still (no problemo, you're a Dwarf), and of course max your Dex into the stratosphere.

[Draz74]

Light bringer rogue from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft is better. Same benefit but you only need to give up trap sense, but its from a more obscure sourcebook so its not as often used.

Sounds exactly the same, then. Penetrating Strike requires you to give up ... your Trap Sense.

[Delibatio]

If multiclassed, start with Rogue. 4xskill_levels is always welcome. Unless you go for saves, I don't recommend it, one might as well lose sneak attack for fighter feats. It's the special abilities at higher levels and skills that make a rogue tick.


If what you need is a trap-monkey, I suggest Tactile Trapsmith (Complete Adventurer) as your feat of choice. It makes Search and Disable Device work off Dex instead of Int. You can now dump Int, along with the usual dump-stats Wis and Cha. Then, on level 3, take Weapon Finesse and your attack roll also works off Dex, and you can dump Str as well. You'll need a reasonable Con still (no problemo, you're a Dwarf), and of course max your Dex into the stratosphere.

I don't know, feats are scarse, no matter what class and Rogue's have the highest skillpoint progression in the book. Dumping INT and using a feat slot just for two skills? Why settle for 8 skillpoints/level if you can have 11 (or more!). That's a difference of 48 compared to 66 by level 3, only going up. You might also need INT for certain feats, especially if you are going for fighter-type feats (or the 'trade sneak attack for fighter feats variant').

Still, it sounds like an interesting feat, if only it would not cost someone a feat!

For a Dex based I usually go ranged, but since the rogue is going to be a Dwarf with high CON, light melee weapons, though.. it might be a tad.. I don't know.. Queer. A tough Dwarf with a tiny dagger/rapier..

EDIT:

Also, Constitution modifiers work retroactive, so if one boost CON afterwards, or with items, you gain HP over your entire line of HitDie. Skillpoints only work from leveling up, and won't use any enhancements. Though, sneak attack from a hiding spot is useful if you actually HIT the target, so indeed, To Hit is very important.

EDIT2: One could also consider 1-3 levels of Wizard, or 1-4 levels of Sorcerer, simply for the acces it gives to utility spells. True Strike is also nice, if you get Sorcerer 4 or Wiz3 you can cast it Silenced, so you can remain hidden, though i'd pick Sorcerer 1-2 if only for the 4-5 times you can cast True Strike, and make it a Char/Int melee build. Don't drop too many sneak attack levels if SA is your thing. Strength to damage is irrelevant. Even if you do 1 damage with your base weapon, you still get sneak attack +xd6. For ranged: Heavy Crossbow has a solid 1d10, going for Repeating requires a feat, and you'll spend a round hiding again anyways, so might as well reload if you can't spare the feat.

[Lin Bayaseda]

I don't know, feats are scarse, no matter what class and Rogue's have the highest skillpoint progression in the book. Dumping INT and using a feat slot just for two skills? Why settle for 8 skillpoints/level if you can have 11 (or more!). That's a difference of 48 compared to 66 by level 3, only going up. You might also need INT for certain feats, especially if you are going for fighter-type feats (or the 'trade sneak attack for fighter feats variant').
It's not how many skill points you have, it's what you do with them. On higher levels, many of the rogue's skills are completely obsoleted by simple spells.

Hide? Who cares how many ranks you have in Hide, if the party Wizard can cast Invisibility repeatedly...
Climb? Spider Climb or Levitate.
Decipher Script? Comprehend Languages.
Open Lock? Knock.
Not matter which skill you choose, there's an app 2nd level spell for that. :smallwink:

The only roguish skills that can't be easily emulated by casters? Search and Disable Device. (Even a cleric with Find Traps is highly unlikely to find all those DC 25+ traps, because: he only gets +10 to his Search, Search isn't a class skill for Clerics, Int is often a dump stat for same Clerics, and the spell doesn't last long enough for him to take 20 everywhere).

Coincidentally, those are also the two skills in which a failure is most likely to kill you.

In summary, it doesn't really matter, IMO, if you get 66 or 48 skill points. Getting (effectively) +4 or +5 to your Search and Disable is more important than a few ranks in some marginal skills like Climb and Appraise.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

[Yora]

Wizard spells that can replace most of the rogues ability become available with unlimited uses only at higher levels. And even then it only works if the gm allows the players to get all the equipment they want.
A wizard can make a rogue obsolete under certain conditions. But I don't think these occour in many games. Apparently few games actually take place above 8th level and at that time a wizard has much better things to do with his spell slots than to memorize 3 times knock and 2 times invisibility. And enough fly spells so that you can be absolutely sure you'll never run out of them during an 18 hour day.

[Draz74]

Hide? Who cares how many ranks you have in Hide, if the party Wizard can cast Invisibility repeatedly...

Right, because there's no monsters that can see Invisible things but can still be fooled by Hide. :smalltongue:

[Lin Bayaseda]

Right, because there's no monsters that can see Invisible things but can still be fooled by Hide.

You can come up with scenarios that require Hide, Appraise, Forgery, and whatnot from here until the end of eternity. I have full confidence in your ability to do so. I will also preemptively admit that, yes, some of those aren't that far-fetched and can actually occur in play.
However, the simple fact is that "I slowly walk down the corridor, searching for traps" occurs, in real play, oh, I don't know, five times more often than all those scenarios put together.

[Draz74]

However, the simple fact is that "I slowly walk down the corridor, searching for traps" occurs, in real play, oh, I don't know, five times more often than all those scenarios put together.

Highly campaign-dependent. Social skills, for example, are ubiquitous in some campaigns.

My last DM -- like many others -- was sick of the "I take 20 on Search on every square of this dungeon" phenomenon, so he was really lax about the requirements for finding a trap, anytime the party actually bothered to be wary of traps at all. (Our "space cadet" druid would often rather just set them off rather than searching for them in advance ...) I've heard of many campaigns that just don't deal with traps at all.

And I'm just saying, when I DM, you'd better believe that a high Hide skill is more useful than an Invisibility spell. The other examples you listed? Maybe not so much; the cases where they come up truly are the exception, like you say. But Hide in particular I disagree with the uselessness of.

[strider24seven]

It's not how many skill points you have, it's what you do with them. On higher levels, many of the rogue's skills are completely obsoleted by simple spells.

Hide? Who cares how many ranks you have in Hide, if the party Wizard can cast Invisibility repeatedly...
Climb? Spider Climb or Levitate.
Decipher Script? Comprehend Languages.
Open Lock? Knock.
Not matter which skill you choose, there's an app 2nd level spell for that. :smallwink:

The only roguish skills that can't be easily emulated by casters? Search and Disable Device. (Even a cleric with Find Traps is highly unlikely to find all those DC 25+ traps, because: he only gets +10 to his Search, Search isn't a class skill for Clerics, Int is often a dump stat for same Clerics, and the spell doesn't last long enough for him to take 20 everywhere).

Coincidentally, those are also the two skills in which a failure is most likely to kill you.

In summary, it doesn't really matter, IMO, if you get 66 or 48 skill points. Getting (effectively) +4 or +5 to your Search and Disable is more important than a few ranks in some marginal skills like Climb and Appraise.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Sometimes I really hate it when people rag on rogues like this. I will deal with the common misconceptions about rogues now:

1) Invisibility wears off after an attack, and still requires ranks in Move Silently without a Silence spell.
2) Invisibility still leaves you vulnerable to creatures with Blindsense, Touchsight(Psionic power), Tremorsense, Mindsight, and so on. A rogue with Darkstalker and Hide in Plain Sight can hide from all of the above except for Mindsight. A Mind Blank could possibly take care of that.
3) Climb, arguably one of the most useless skills, lets you get higher than most non-teleport spells faster if you have a good skill modifier. Especially with the Leaping Climber skill trick and a good Jump modifier.
4) Decipher Script lets you read stuff without blowing a spell slot, or even worse, a spell pick, on it. 'Nuff said.
5) Open Lock lets you open stuff without blow a spell slot or pick on it. 'Nuff said.
6) Rogues (or anything with Trapfinding) are the only characters that can locate AND disable traps with DC's above 20. That is to say, Rogues and other Trapfinders are the only ones who can really disarm traps. And any rogue past level 3 worth his salt uses Masterwork tools with reach to disarm traps. The Trapkiller Barbarian and Dungeoncrasher Fighter have to make do with an 11-ft pole.
7) The more skills you have, the better. If you are a Factotum, or have magic items to boost skill modifiers, having ranks in skills becomes useful- even if it's only one rank. Many items require a character to have ranks in a skill.
8) Most importantly: It's ROGUE, dammit!

Just my 8 pennies.

Please note this is just a vent for anti-rogue sentiment, not directed at anyone in particular.

[Runeclaw]

Would an exotic weapon prof for Spiked Chain be a good investment for a combat rogue? Its finessable, it trips, it gives reach, etc...?

[Shecky]

Hmm. Anyone know how to post an HTML document? I rolled up my char in e-Tools and exported it to HTML, but I'd like to post it here for perusal.