PDA

View Full Version : Bard Question: Why pick Perform (any instrument)?



Lysander
2010-04-05, 03:43 PM
Bards don't need instruments. Bardic music works just as well with pure song or poetics, and using your voice means you don't need to worry about having your instrument lost or sundered and you can keep your hands free.

One reason I can think of for using an instrument is to get the +2 masterwork bonus. And there are magic instruments like the lyre of building that require instrument perform checks. So you do give up a bit if you just use your voice.

So, in your opinion which perform skill is best?

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-05, 03:47 PM
Bards don't need instruments. Bardic music works just as well with pure song or poetics, and using your voice means you don't need to worry about having your instrument lost or sundered and you can keep your hands free.

One reason I can think of for using an instrument is to get the +2 masterwork bonus. And there are magic instruments like the lyre of building that require instrument perform checks. So you do give up a bit if you just use your voice.

So, in your opinion which perform skill is best?

Drums. I believe there is a special drum that boosts Inspire Courage by one.

If not, guitar for sure. Best way to enter the Disciple of Metal.

BRC
2010-04-05, 03:47 PM
Perform (Interpretive Dance about Mans inhumanity towards Man and the soul crushing nature of modern society set to an ironically chosen musical selection consisting primarily of yourself playing instruments you have barely seen before then poorly splicing it together in Garageband)

the humanity
2010-04-05, 03:48 PM
Perform (dance)

my macarena gives you resistance to fire 15, friend! and, each time I go 'aii!' a kobold burns to death!

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-05, 03:48 PM
Perform (Interpretive Dance about Mans inhumanity towards Man and the soul crushing nature of modern society set to an ironically chosen musical selection consisting primarily of yourself playing instruments you have barely seen before then poorly splicing it together in Garageband)

Do you have a video of this? I totally need to see it. :smallbiggrin:

BRC
2010-04-05, 03:54 PM
Do you have a video of this? I totally need to see it. :smallbiggrin:
Yeah, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0).
NOTE: Sheep who have been programmed by the establishment will see that video as an overused meme. Only us free thinkers can appreciate the irony and see the true message I hid in there.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-05, 04:29 PM
Perform (dance)

my macarena gives you resistance to fire 15, friend! and, each time I go 'aii!' a kobold burns to death!

Oh god I lol'd. If I had any spare internetz I would so give you one.

krossbow
2010-04-05, 04:35 PM
I suddenly have the image in my mind of dirty dancing with patrick swayze nuking people.

Slayn82
2010-04-05, 04:54 PM
Well, i personally used to like the optional Perform (Illusion). Its like taking out your full army to the movies. And you could sustain any Bardic "song" effect that you wished by adding another instrument to the Illusion. Also, excelent range and the oportunity to direct your army in the battlefield with real time, preach your propaganda or to annoy enemies with undignified images of their leaders.

Of course, illusions are great too for those intimidation checks. At least, you can make sure you are never outnumbered.

Xzeno
2010-04-05, 05:09 PM
My bard uses Perform (Questionable Rules Reading) for all of his bardic music. It works for me.

nargbop
2010-04-05, 05:27 PM
Flavor McDelicious.

Godskook
2010-04-05, 05:48 PM
Why I am no longer allowed to play bards. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmtzQCSh6xk)

Salud.

Volkov
2010-04-05, 05:55 PM
Sing "Never gonna give you up" of rick roll fame while casting shout, after tricking your audience into thinking you were going to play Beethoven's sonata.

Poil
2010-04-05, 05:56 PM
What's wrong with river dance? Or opera? Nothing better at putting those barb levels to use than charging into battle screaming Ride of The Valkyries through a blood haze.

ericgrau
2010-04-05, 05:59 PM
Bards don't need instruments. Bardic music works just as well with pure song or poetics, and using your voice means you don't need to worry about having your instrument lost or sundered and you can keep your hands free.

One reason I can think of for using an instrument is to get the +2 masterwork bonus. And there are magic instruments like the lyre of building that require instrument perform checks. So you do give up a bit if you just use your voice.

So, in your opinion which perform skill is best?

The masterwork bonus, yes, and because there's no downside. Since it takes a standard action each round to start singing or to keep it up, you can't use your hands for other things anyway. After that
you can always put your instrument away as a move action, drop it as a free action, carry a spare should it get lost, or heck you can summon a new one with a friggin' cantrip. The only reason not to get one is because a +2 to perform isn't much of an upside anyway; it's a few gp or at best a minor RP hook.

Best thing to do in either case is to stop singing or playing after the buffing round and do other things, since the benefits of most songs continue after you stop playing.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-05, 06:00 PM
Perform (Pacman). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv5rzq8b08o)

"Have courage friends, for we shall be wakka wakka wakka this day!!"

Edit:

...The only reason not to get one is because a +2 to perform isn't much of an upside anyway; it's a few gp or at best a minor RP hook....

Also you can have a musical instrument taken from you by prison guards, much like a Spell Component Pouch. Generally they can't take your voice/feet.

JaronK
2010-04-05, 06:00 PM
There are a number of special instruments (for example the ones in Complete Adventurer) that do special stuff when you're using them for Bardic Music. So that's a good reason.

I'm a fan of making diplomancers with Perform (Mime) and Exemplar levels. If I talk to you, you worhsip me. If you tie me up and gag me, I can just hold still until you worship me. It's pretty awesome.

JaronK

MikelaC1
2010-04-05, 06:03 PM
Just take the Versatile Performer feat from Complete Adventurer, and your perform skill applies to as many performance styles as you have INT bonus; plus you get a +2 on the performance score if you do a combined perform check.

Volkov
2010-04-05, 06:04 PM
Perform (Pacman). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv5rzq8b08o)

"Have courage friends, for we shall be wakka wakka wakka this day!!"

Edit:


Also you can have a musical instrument taken from you by prison guards, much like a Spell Component Pouch. Generally they can't take your voice/feet.
The Assyrians would like to have a word with you.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-05, 06:06 PM
The Assyrians would like to have a word with you.

Generally. I said generally. I am well aware of body breakers :smalltongue:

Though Perform (Remain Perfectly Still) sounds like a good idea.

Volkov
2010-04-05, 06:10 PM
Generally. I said generally. I am well aware of body breakers :smalltongue:

Though Perform (Remain Perfectly Still) sounds like a good idea.

Break your body? These guys stripped every last bit of skin, chopped off your limbs and that of all your friends and mounted them on a pillar in front of their enemy's gates on a regular basis.

Jack_Simth
2010-04-05, 06:16 PM
Break your body? These guys stripped every last bit of skin, chopped off your limbs and that of all your friends and mounted them on a pillar in front of their enemy's gates on a regular basis.
Generally speaking, the people that don't so much do imprisonment as they do execution. And there's generally going to be a bit of a delay where a guard or two will take everything they think might cause a problem before someone gives the go-ahead for the flaying and dismemberment.

Paulus
2010-04-05, 06:35 PM
I am partial to perform (beat box) myself.

Also, perform (sound effect) in which you hum and punctuate your or your parties attacks like this: na na na na na na na na na, BAM! POW! na na na na na na na na na na WACK! BOOM! BONK!

HenryHankovitch
2010-04-05, 07:07 PM
Dwarven bard.

Perform (Burlesque).

Inspiring.

Eldariel
2010-04-05, 07:21 PM
As touched upon earlier, lots of mw. instruments provide you with bonuses. Also, a stylistic choice.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-05, 07:29 PM
Perform (Perform) is my skill of choice. That way, any means of performance whatsoever will let you do your thing.

Perform (Dancing Calcobrena) is always nice in an RPG.

Krazddndfreek
2010-04-05, 07:30 PM
This is why you pick an instrument (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7844698#post7844698)

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-05, 08:13 PM
I like: Perform (Flexing my Glistening Muscles)
http://media.photobucket.com/image/Alex%20Louis%20Armstrong/NGR_album/fma488.jpg

Particularly good for Inspire Awe!

The Dark Fiddler
2010-04-05, 08:18 PM
Perform (Fighting) is my favorite. What do you mean attacking doesn't count as using Bardic Music? That's what I put my perform ranks in! :smallamused:

druid91
2010-04-05, 08:27 PM
Perform (slapstick) was my favorite, you get to inspire courage by hitting the wizard in the kneecap with a stick.

TheMadLinguist
2010-04-05, 08:29 PM
Perform (Open Heart Surgery). It's best used to make money in downtime.

Douglas
2010-04-05, 08:35 PM
Since it takes a standard action each round to start singing or to keep it up
For most Bardic Music buffs, this is not correct. It takes a standard action to start, but it does not take an action to maintain. If you are using, for example, Perform (singing) for your bardic music, maintaining it after the initial startup merely occupies your vocal cords but does not have any more of an action cost than speaking. Fascinate and Inspire Competence are the exceptions.

Kalirren
2010-04-05, 08:42 PM
To the OP: I totally agree about the lyres of building. I've had a Bard/Marshal general type character do that for emergency fortifications before.

But mostly it's for flavor. One of my favorite character concepts was a Bard/Druid who wasn't just a player, but also had skill ranks in Craft(luthier) and -made- instruments, and so Perform(string) instruments made sense. Imagine playing a -living- cello.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-05, 08:43 PM
Perform (tantric maneuvers). With Dragonfire Inspiration, it gives a new meaning to, "Baby, that's so hot."

Unless you're a succubus, I'm not sure how you'd do this during battle, though...

Lord Raziere
2010-04-05, 08:53 PM
I'd pick Perform (Awesome) then call it day...

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-05, 08:56 PM
Perform (Oratory) is overdone.

Perform (Oral) on the other hand...

El Dorado
2010-04-05, 09:26 PM
I usually go with max ranks in perform (sing) and three ranks in perform (string instruments) (enough for the first tier of bardic music effects).

Recently, perform (percussion instruments) and perform (wind instruments) have caught my attention---if only because they're different from my standard choices.

Optimystik
2010-04-05, 10:00 PM
The nice thing about Perform (Poetry) is that you can use it to find help in the strangest places. One time my party abandoned me in the local jail, so I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said 'Fresh' and had dice in the mirror, if anything i could say that this cab was rare, but I thought nah, forget it - Yo, home to Bel-Air!' I pulled up to the house about seven or eight, I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo home, smell ya later!' I looked at my kingdom, I was finally there to sit on my throne as the prince of Bel-Air! And that's one thing only a bard can pull off :smallsmile:

sofawall
2010-04-05, 10:18 PM
Since it takes a standard action each round to start singing or to keep it up

Inspire Courage does not require concentration.

Exhibit A: Not all Bardic Music uses need concentration.


Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesnít require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word.

Exhibit B: Inspire Courage makes no mention of needing concentration.


A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.

Exhibit C: An example of something that does require concentration. Note the absence of the bolded portion in Inspire Courage (bolded by me).


A bard of 3rd level or higher with 6 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to help an ally succeed at a task. The ally must be within 30 feet and able to see and hear the bard. The bard must also be able to see the ally.

The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as he or she continues to hear the bardís music. Certain uses of this ability are infeasible. The effect lasts as long as the bard concentrates, up to a maximum of 2 minutes. A bard canít inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence is a mind-affecting ability.

absolmorph
2010-04-05, 10:26 PM
The nice thing about Perform (Poetry) is that you can use it to find help in the strangest places. One time my party abandoned me in the local jail, so I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said 'Fresh' and had dice in the mirror, if anything i could say that this cab was rare, but I thought nah, forget it - Yo, home to Bel-Air!' I pulled up to the house about seven or eight, I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo home, smell ya later!' I looked at my kingdom, I was finally there to sit on my throne as the prince of Bel-Air! And that's one thing only an awesome bard can pull off :smallsmile:
Fix'd that for you.

ericgrau
2010-04-05, 10:43 PM
For most Bardic Music buffs, this is not correct. It takes a standard action to start, but it does not take an action to maintain. If you are using, for example, Perform (singing) for your bardic music, maintaining it after the initial startup merely occupies your vocal cords but does not have any more of an action cost than speaking. Fascinate and Inspire Competence are the exceptions.

Fairly irrelevant because there still is never a need to continue music during combat. Inspire courage and inspire greatness last for 5 rounds after you stop singing. For everything else it doesn't matter, or requires concentration anyway. And the music still keeps you from casting, which is just about the best combat option a bard has.



Also you can have a musical instrument taken from you by prison guards, much like a Spell Component Pouch. Generally they can't take your voice/feet.
"Aww man, now when I'm captured once in a blue moon I can't give my allies a whopping +2 to their hits while simultaneously alerting all the guards in the dungeon. Guess I'll have to cast mirror image or pyrotechnics instead. Oh wait, nevermind, summon instrument is a bard cantrip with no material component."

Yeah, the differences are so small that it really doesn't matter whether you carry an instrument or not. Pick whatever you like best.

sofawall
2010-04-05, 10:53 PM
And the music still keeps you from casting, which is just about the best combat option a bard has.

Frankly, I think getting 16 attacks at +14d6, and +14 damage and +14 to hit, and granting those bonus to my party, will usually do more than spells.

Douglas
2010-04-05, 11:14 PM
Fairly irrelevant because there still is never a need to continue music during combat. Inspire courage and inspire greatness last for 5 rounds after you stop singing. For everything else it doesn't matter, or requires concentration anyway. And the music still keeps you from casting, which is just about the best combat option a bard has.
Combat can last longer than five rounds, even with a highly optimized party; it all depends on what your DM is putting you up against and how he structures the encounter. There's a feat (Melodic Casting) in Complete Mage that negates the spellcasting restriction, and a bard sufficiently optimized for buffing can be quite a powerful weapon user himself thanks to benefiting from his own buffs.


"Aww man, now when I'm captured once in a blue moon I can't give my allies a whopping +2 to their hits while simultaneously alerting all the guards in the dungeon. Guess I'll have to cast mirror image or pyrotechnics instead. Oh wait, nevermind, summon instrument is a bard cantrip with no material component."

Yeah, the differences are so small that it really doesn't matter whether you carry an instrument or not. Pick whatever you like best.
+2? Try +7. Or +14 if you're using Words of Creation. Or replace each +1 with +1d6 damage by using Dragonfire Inspiration. Bardic Music can be extremely powerful if optimized, and being able to maintain it without occupying your hands can be valuable.

ericgrau
2010-04-05, 11:24 PM
The typical combat is about 5 rounds, or even in a long fight the major action is over by then. And, okay, on the rare chance they get captured, dragonfire inspiration and such bards can stick to singi-, oh wait, summon instrument. Elan OTOH can stick to his lute without worry. Or even an optimized core bard.

sofawall
2010-04-05, 11:32 PM
And, okay, on the rare chance they get captured, dragonfire inspiration and such bards can stick to singi-, oh wait, summon instrument. Elan OTOH can stick to his lute without worry. Or even an optimized core bard.

If you repeat things you've already said and nobody disagreed with, but don't address new arguments, it makes any debate somewhat pointless.

chiasaur11
2010-04-06, 12:51 AM
Yeah, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0).
NOTE: Sheep who have been programmed by the establishment will see that video as an overused meme. Only us free thinkers can appreciate the irony and see the true message I hid in there.

What's so special?

All I see is JC Denton saying "What a Shame".

Saintheart
2010-04-06, 03:32 AM
Sounds like everyone in this thread is rolling for Perform (Comedy) checks... :smallwink:

Frankly, though, I find being able to Perform (In the Bedroom) is always a useful skill.

Iferus
2010-04-06, 04:07 AM
Why not just sing? Because you can play a giant floating church organ instead.


:D

Roderick_BR
2010-04-06, 09:13 AM
Perform (Fighting) is my favorite. What do you mean attacking doesn't count as using Bardic Music? That's what I put my perform ranks in! :smallamused:
How about Perform (fighting with a musical instrument)? (http://cclonline.org/bloglcsw/uploaded_images/ElKabong-793115.jpg)
You could get it enchanted as a magic club as well :smallbiggrin:

Beelzebub1111
2010-04-06, 09:17 AM
Preform (Acting) is viable, I belive it's used in the Dungeon Magazine adventure "At the Mouth of Madness"

Also, Acting includes Mime! Now you can use your Inspire Competence for move silently checks.

Lysander
2010-04-06, 09:25 AM
Perform (Bird Calls) would be a great way of avoiding detection while using bardic music.

gallagher
2010-04-06, 10:31 AM
my favorite bard is one with a perform (Mime) Check

interestingly enough it would be funny if a bard mime could make a wall of force

DSCrankshaw
2010-04-06, 10:32 AM
Just take the Versatile Performer feat from Complete Adventurer, and your perform skill applies to as many performance styles as you have INT bonus; plus you get a +2 on the performance score if you do a combined perform check.

This. Yeah, it may feel like a wasted feat, but I still wouldn't build a bard without it.

Critical
2010-04-06, 11:05 AM
Perform (Trolling)?

Mark Hall
2010-04-06, 11:29 AM
Perform (Wedgie).

It's a combat style.