OOTS #712 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Freaking half-dragon... does he have something to do with Familicide?
I hope we get to see this arc finished before we get into that...
Run away from this one, guys...
Stupid to stay and fight, go get Roy.
Take V and amscray!

Puny Elan and Haley don't stand a chance.
Or maybe they do, with Haley's new bow...
So, maybe fighting is the way to go.
Then again, maybe not!

[PersonMan]

YES. More action at last! The searching was beginning to get old...

Nice job, Rich.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Oh crap, this doesn't look good.

I don't know whether to be happy or sad that we don't get to see how everyone else failed (2nd level spells mage's guild sounds funny though...).

[SensFan]

Wow, that was an unexpected change of pace.

[sneakattak]

finally back to the action! i wonder whats gonna happen next. btw is that a dragon with a club?

[Hunter548]

Best. Punchline. Ever

[DaggerPen]

5 gp says this is familicide coming back to bite a certain androgynous elf...

Much as I love V, it's probably well deserved.

[Protecar]

V is so amazing! I'm glad (s)he got a good punchline for this comic. Hopefully one of my faves(either V or Belkar) can help save the day. :smallbiggrin:

Another encounter though regardless! I love it!

[Elfin]

Finally Elan gets a chance to use Neutralize Poison.
And great punchline.

[The Dark Fiddler]

finally back to the action! i wonder whats gonna happen next. btw is that a dragon with a club?

Probably a half-dragon or a dragon disciple or something.

[AlterForm]

Looking forward to seeing how GreenSnout from panel 4 plays into this.

[sneakattak]

but i heard it lieks mudkipz.

[Pokonic]

Revenge from timat, perhapes?

[Gimliggamer]

V ftw! That dragon/thing looks kind of dangerous. And I don't think it lieks mudkipz.

[Kurien]

That bipedal dragon thing has a formidable looking weapon. The morningstar is as big as a human's head!

[holywhippet]

It's possible this is related to V's mass dragon killing spell, but if a God like Tiamat really wanted V dead I'd have expected either a poision that does CON damage (almost certainly lethal in V's case) or a lot more attackers. This seems a bit too small scale (relatively speaking) to be a revenge attack.

V could possibly help out in the fight depending on the spells (s)he has memorised. If (s)he can manage a single bulls strength spell it should negate the STR loss.

[Woodsman]

Awesome.

Nothing less.

[sneakattak]

Yes but that was a blue dragon.

[Kumo]

It's possible this is related to V's mass dragon killing spell, but if a God like Tiamat really wanted V dead I'd have expected either a poision that does CON damage (almost certainly lethal in V's case) or a lot more attackers. This seems a bit too small scale (relatively speaking) to be a revenge attack.

Alternatively Girard heard about them and hired a hitman, and the hitman took out the one he percieved as the physically weakest (and in this case also the most dangerous) first.

[Szilard]

"We are almost certainly going to die." :smalltongue:

[flamingoptimus]

Revenge Of The Indirect Blood Descendants?

OOTS is in huge trouble with Capital A.

[Scorpions__]

Does V really have that little strength? Seems like the primary damage just paralyzed her.






DM[F]R

[sneakattak]

Wait a sec? So they couldve traced back to V killing all those dragons? But there was no evidence that V probably had a different energy than V now,

[Exitus]

Are those half-dragons or some kind of creature i am not familiar with? And if they are half-dragons, maybe Girard does have some dragon blood.

[DaggerPen]

Wait a sec? So they couldve traced back to V killing all those dragons? But there was no evidence that V probably had a different energy than V now,

Oracle? That's how the Momma Black Dragon found hir in the first place, after all.

[Starbuck_II]

Guys, it isn't a black dragon.
More than likely it is connected to someone the partty pissed off/fought like Linear guild.

[Morgan Wick]

Oh crap, this doesn't look good.

I don't know whether to be happy or sad that we don't get to see how everyone else failed (2nd level spells mage's guild sounds funny though...).

I smell bonus strips.

[Morquard]

You noticed the big tooth of the dragon...
dragon, tooth
drake, tooth
draketooth
girard draketooth

Just a thought.

[tassaron]

Nice perspective in the fourth panel. :D

[hobbitkniver]

Gotta say, I think Haley made the wrong choice. Also, wonder if Elan had some deja vu with the neutralize poison from the whole Therkla thing and thats why he had it prepared. Also, the crossbow wielding creature looks a lot like a green kobold to me. Might be a clue or might just be the art.

[faith]

love it :D

[Frozen_Feet]

Clearly some black dragon had adopted children. Oh the irony.

[Zea mays]

Yes! Heart-pounding excitement!

I'm hoping that the semi-dragon thingy is a cohort of Girard, somehow.
(maybe they used the scrying sensor to track Mr. Scruffy The Order?

[KiwiImperator]

Ahh, V's Karma returns to him quicker than I had guessed it would. This ought to be good.

[pflare]

Good for V learning his/her lesson. But yah they're screwed

[AmberVael]

Well, its a Blue Half-Dragon. Blue Dragons are desert dwelling creatures, and the Order of the Stick is currently in the desert.

Therefore, it seems at least reasonable to assume that this Blue Half-Dragon is a local of some kind.

Given that the party has yet to turn up any signs of Girard (and that's the plot thread being pursued), and that he has been mentioned to have companions, and he's in the desert, and the half-dragon is obviously quite a potent threat (enough for V to say that last line), I'm going to guess that this Half-Dragon is a companion or hireling of Girard who wants to eliminate some people he overheard trying to find him. Somehow the fight will conclude with the Order finding their way to Girard after a tense bit of combat.

[Mando Knight]

Sure, ABD didn't have any blood-family to avenge her, but massacre one of the most powerful species on the planet and you're going to get their matron and her subordinates to try to kill you.

[Procyonpi]

Holy... this could be an interesting fight. I'm ambivalent as to whether it's a dragon, half dragon or dragon disciple, but it probably has rogue (and possibly assassin) levels, and was probably sent by Tiamat. If it's a dragon, it's probably a young adult blue dragon, which is CR 11 without accounting for the rogue levels it probably has. A normal encounter for Haley and Elan would be EL somewhere around 12 (Average level 14ish, subtract two from that because they're only half a party), that ranges anywhere from "interesting fight" (only 1-2 class levels) to "they're screwed" (ANY assassin levels or anything upwards of a half a dozen rogue levels). A half dragon would depend almost entirely on the number of class levels... my 5th level Barbarian pretty much single-handedly defeated a half-dragon lizardfolk with a couple of class levels.

Of course, that whole analysis was probably useless, as we all know these battles get decided by plot, not die roles.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Does V really have that little strength? Seems like the primary damage just paralyzed her.

Quite possible. I think I remember it being said somewhere that V has a Strength penalty.


You noticed the big tooth of the dragon...
dragon, tooth
drake, tooth
draketooth
girard draketooth

Just a thought.

I'm all for reading too much into things, but I think this is a real stretch.

[Beholder1995]

I have a feeling (which is probably off-base and incorrect) that the half-dragon is a representative of the "real" guilds and defeating him will be their actual initiation test.

Huzzah for outlandish theories!

EDIT::: Also, it looks like there's two snouts in that one panel- one blue and one green. I suspect reinforcements.

[ComradeMolokov]

Actually, philosophically speaking whether her action was "right" or not depends upon what you believe to be the defining attribute of morality. Is it the foreseeable consequences? Obligations of care? The maxim behind the action? Respect for autonomy? The character of the actor? A utilitarian would say she made the wrong choice, while a care ethicist would say she made the right one.

But all that aside, I'm leaning toward this being an act of revenge. There are both blue and green snouts in the fourth panel, both reptilian, meaning that there is some degree of cooperation going on here. It may not directly be from Tiamat, as there would probably be more of them there if it were, but I don't think it's a coincidence that chromatic half-dragons are out for the party's blood either.

So yeah, familicide coming back to bite V in the ass.

[Conuly]

Wow, V's comeuppance is certainly coming sooner than I expected. (Unless this is just completely RANDOM, of course, which is always possible.)

[NerfTW]

btw is that a dragon with a club?

No, it's a Kraken with a spear. :smalltongue:


On topic, I don't think it's related to familicide. Those were Black Dragons, this is blue. Far more likely this is related to Girard.

Also, love that the Neutralize Poison spell came into play. Go surprisingly effective Elan!

[Kaiser Omnik]

Dragons don't wield weapons. It could theorically be a polymorphed dragon, but what's the point of taking the form of a half-dragon to fight with weapons when you could take on those adventurers with your full strength? Maybe to hide your nature...then again, I don't think half blue dragons are much more common than true dragons around there.

[CoffeeIncluded]

...Oh dear. :smalleek:

Yeah, this is probably Familicide come back to haunt V. Or Draketooth. Or both.

[Symmys]

Now taking bets on V's current life expectancy.

[Jack of Spades]

No-evidence theory-making time!

My left-field guess: Heroic rescue by Girard. Why? No idea

[Conuly]

Those were Black Dragons, this is blue.

When Mama ABD was away, she expected her son to visit the green dragon down the way a bit. Maybe she killed herself when he died, and this is her family getting their revenge.

[hobbitkniver]

No, it's a Kraken with a spear. :smalltongue:


On topic, I don't think it's related to familicide. Those were Black Dragons, this is blue. Far more likely this is related to Girard.

Also, love that the Neutralize Poison spell came into play. Go surprisingly effective Elan!

I agree, I think the story will be about Girard and the gates for a while before any older events become the focus.

[Flickerdart]

Well damn, here I was hoping the Chimera was back all the way until the last panel that ruined everything forever.

[DeltaEmil]

The dragonoid doesn't have to do anything related with the familicide.

However, being blue does not mean that Tiamat couldn't have send it. She is interested in the relative welfare of all chromatic dragons.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Now taking bets on V's current life expectancy.

The rest of the comic.

Seriously, I doubt that V is going to die. Or Haley. OR Elan. In fact, I don't think any of the Order will die here (maybe Belkar though, but I doubt it). It just wouldn't make sense to kill another character, since Roy just got raised and all.

Unrelated: how much longer before Roy wasn't 'just' raised? :smallconfused:

[SolkaTruesilver]

I'm all for reading too much into things, but I think this is a real stretch.

Actually... Sorcerer powers has to come from somewhere, right? Maybe he's Dragon-related..

[NerfTW]

When Mama ABD was away, she expected her son to visit the green dragon down the way a bit. Maybe she killed herself when he died, and this is her family getting their revenge.

And that was a green dragon, not a blue dragon.

[Aragehaor]

I doubt its Tiamat's doing unless she suddenly decided to go back on what i assume was a deal with the fiends in Strip #668 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html)

(I bet this will of already been said since i take so long in typing, if so ignore this)

[DeltaEmil]

Gotta say, I think Haley made the wrong choice. Also, wonder if Elan had some deja vu with the neutralize poison from the whole Therkla thing and thats why he had it prepared. Also, the crossbow wielding creature looks a lot like a green kobold to me. Might be a clue or might just be the art.Elan doesn't have to prepare spells, as he's a bard.

[Lupy]

:vaarsuvius: Practically speaking, we are almost certainly going to die.

:smallbiggrin:

[Tyrrell]

Also, wonder if Elan had some deja vu with the neutralize poison from the whole Therkla thing and that's why he had it prepared. Bards don't prepare spells. They cast them spontaneously like sorcerers

[Querzis]

Look at panel 4 again guys. Its a blue Dragon AND a green dragon, the green dragon is simply still hiding.

Anyway, this is either familicide coming back to haunt V or they are Girard Draketooth minions. And by the way, the fact that they are not Black Dragons means nothing, killing a quarter of the black dragon is going to piss off all the chromatic dragons and probably most of the neutral dragons too, it wont just be the black dragons coming for revenge.

[MReav]

I call Cleric of Tiamat acting on divine orders.

[kabbor]

Haley should run back and get the help of the Aton ladies. They are obviously epic level - they got Haley with a simple free-gift trap!

[Earendill]

Against the consensus here (familicide and Tiamat)


What if the arrow was targeting Elan in fact and Haley pushed him ? So that V got hit instead ?

I mean - Str damage ? on a mage ? Why not Con ? Or maybe he intended just to capture him ?

Most probable explanation - all the asking around the city has reached Girard's team and this is the reaction. Like in bad cop movies - when the cop asks around waiting for a reaction.

[dps]

btw is that a dragon with a club?

Yeah, it's a member of the he-dragon elf-haters club.







:smallbiggrin:

[Kaiser Omnik]

Rich could pull a surprising twist, but all seems to point to Girard's minions or allies. We already know there are many reptilian humanoids in the region, half-dragons are not a big stretch. Furthermore, the Order has been gathering information on the whereabouts of Girard and friends for the past few strips...not so subtly. Of course, the half-dragons/dragonkin could be Tiamat worshipers and allies of Girard... They could be willing to settle a score with V while they stop the Order following Girard's orders. Then again, that seems overcomplicated.

[hobbitkniver]

Against the consensus here (familicide and Tiamat)


What if the arrow was targeting Elan in fact and Haley pushed him ? So that V got hit instead ?

I mean - Str damage ? on a mage ? Why not Con ? Or maybe he intended just to capture him ?

Most probable explanation - all the asking around the city has reached Girard's team and this is the reaction. Like in bad cop movies - when the cop asks around waiting for a reaction.

From the picture, I'd say it looks like the arrow would have hit Elan in the head if Haley didn't push him over. Of course, this is probably just over-analysis.

[Conuly]

And that was a green dragon, not a blue dragon.

One of the dragons was blue, yes. What color was the other one? That snout looked kinda greenish to me.

[Herald Alberich]

One of the dragons was blue, yes. What color was the other one? That snout looked kinda greenish to me.

We don't even know if that's a dragon of any kind, yet; it could just be one of the desert lizardfolk we've been seeing.

[DSCrankshaw]

We don't even know if that's a dragon of any kind, yet; it could just be one of the desert lizardfolk we've been seeing.

The desert lizardfolk don't have wings. Plus this guy's pretty large--he looks a lot more like a half-dragon than anything else.

[Jagos]

Rich could pull a surprising twist, but all seems to point to Girard's minions or allies. We already know there are many reptilian humanoids in the region, half-dragons are not a big stretch. Furthermore, the Order has been gathering information on the whereabouts of Girard and friends for the past few strips...not so subtly. Of course, the half-dragons/dragonkin could be Tiamat worshipers and allies of Girard... They could be willing to settle a score with V while they stop the Order following Girard's orders. Then again, that seems overcomplicated.

Tiamat worshipers when Girard is at least chaotic neutral and protecting a gate? I doubt he's really want someone evil near him and Tiamat is pretty high up there.

My guess goes to Girard's compadres finding Haley, Elan, and V rather than the dragons coming to bite V in the rear end.

[Morgan Wick]

I smell bonus strips.

And/or a Big Damn Heroes moment for Durkon (who's the only one I could see adding anything, Sexy Shoeless God of War and "I'm not a meatshield, dammit!" aside).

(Comic 713, after Elan says "you should have trusted my dramatic instincts", Thor's Lightning, and a one-liner or one-panel joke about Durkon's whereabouts:)
:durkon:: What be the matter wit V, then?
:haley:: Hit by Strength poison arrow. Elan took care of the poison but V's still a sitting duck.
:durkon:: I dinnae have the spell prepared to fix 'er up. We best be gettin' outta here. They probably heard us talkin' 'bout where we were meetin' up.
:elan:: You think they targeted us in particular?
:durkon:: How many dragons ye see in tha middle of tha city?
:vaarsuvius:: How shall we inform Sir Greenhilt and the halfling of our whereabouts?
:blackwing:: I could track them down for you...
:vaarsuvius:: As much as I would like an opportunity to ingratiate you to the rest of the team, I do not believe they would be inclined to listen to a bird they have dismissed as illusionary and nonexistent, respectively.
:durkon:: We be an hour early anyway. We know where Roy is, we can track 'im down and let 'im know what happened. He'll know what ta do.
:elan:: Not Belkar?
:haley:: Is that a trick question?
Or:
:vaarsuvius:: I am not inclined to witness the halfling's dealings with those who deal in sexual favors.

[Herald Alberich]

The desert lizardfolk don't have wings. Plus this guy's pretty large--he looks a lot more like a half-dragon than anything else.

No, the green one, with the crossbow, underneath the blue one in panel 4. We don't know what it is yet.

[derfenrirwolv]

Is it me, or are there TWO dragon creatures up on the shelf, one blue and one green ? I don't see anything on the blue one that would account for the green on the second one

[Kaiser Omnik]

It's definitely another creature wielding a crossbow. We have no way of knowing what it is exactly, however. It could be another half-dragon, a lizardfolk, etc.

[Procyonpi]

\Also, wonder if Elan had some deja vu with the neutralize poison from the whole Therkla thing and thats why he had it prepared.

Bards don't have to prepare spells. He learned it for that reason, though.

[DSCrankshaw]

No, the green one, with the crossbow, underneath the blue one in panel 4. We don't know what it is yet.

Oops, sorry, I should've read more closely.

[Snake-Aes]

It's unlikely they're acting on orders of Tiamat, given the IFCC did appease her with interesting promises.
We saw that Girard DID scry on the order.
I'd say it's more likely to be girard's crew or a personal vendetta. Don't think Tiamat's involved yet.

[derfenrirwolv]

Gotta say, I think Haley made the wrong choice. Also, wonder if Elan had some deja vu with the neutralize poison from the whole Therkla thing and thats why he had it prepared

Elan did learn neutralize poison because of Therkla, but he can cast it now that he needs it because Elan is a bard, and bards don't have to memorize spells in advance. They can cast what they want when they want of their list, limited only by a set number of spells per level per day.

STR poison makes perfect sense. The str dmg poisons are MUCH cheaper than the con damage alternatives.
Poison Type Initial Damage Secondary Price
Black lotus Contact DC 20 3d6 Con 3d6 Con 4,500 gp
Dragon bile Contact DC 26 3d6 Str 0 1,500 gp

Heh. Not only would stabbing him with dragon bile be ironic, but these particular assasins also get it on the cheap, AND it means elans neutralize poison was worthless... as there's no secondary damage.

[Kaiser Omnik]

Don't forget, there are at least 9 sides in this conflict. I seriously hope this is a new one, be it Girard's group or another one interested in the desert Gate.

[Herald Alberich]

I'm a bit surprised Haley let herself get taken in like that.


You noticed the big tooth of the dragon...
dragon, tooth
drake, tooth
draketooth
girard draketooth

Just a thought.

That's not a tooth, it's a horn. OotS blue dragons (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0619.html) have horns.

[GenPol]

I'm putting my money on the half dragon being an illusion created by Girard. Just throwing that out there :smalltongue:

[Agi Hammerthief]

hooray for end of easter :smallbiggrin:


I guess it's targeting strength in order to capture as a reduction of Con to 0 kills the character.


is V referring to Ability Drain because it is permanent
or through sloppy use of vocabulary and its actually Ability Damage? :smallconfused:


would a player actually know the difference untill it does (not) regenerate

[Kaiser Omnik]

hooray for end of easter :smallbiggrin:


I guess it's targeting strength in order to capture as a reduction of Con to 0 kills the character.


is V referring to Ability Drain because it is permanent
or through sloppy use of vocabulary and its actually Ability Damage? :smallconfused:


would a player actually know the difference untill it does (not) regenerate

Ability drain poison? They really are doomed!

[whitemane]

Here are my thoughts... It's a blue half-dragon and a green half-dragon getting revenge for familicide. Also, V isn't totally out of the picture since we know that s/he learned the spell Power Word: Stun when s/he was copying spells back in Azure City (which only requires a verbal component...)

[silvadel]

Could blackwing cast Vs bull's strength on him/her?

[Shale]

Blind, actually.

[Herald Alberich]

Could blackwing cast Vs bull's strength on him/her?

No, V would have to cast it, then Blackwing could deliver it to someone else. Blackwing can't cast spells by himself.

[Kaiser Omnik]

No, V would have to cast it, then Blackwing could deliver it to someone else. Blackwing can't cast spells by himself.

Unless he somehow has wizard, sorcerer or cleric levels! Yeah...

[wgabrie]

The roof shadows first made it look like the return of the Trigak. (OOTS 17-23).

[Reshbj]

Well, I say the whole thing is an illusion designed to test them. This evidence points towards this conclusion:

1. We never saw the bolt being fired. Sure, we saw a crossbow, but even then we couldn't see who fired it.
2. The bolt did Strength damage, which possibly was not meant to be lethal.
3. Foreshadowed by V mentioning a certain illusionist, and also mentioning "the right decision".

[tcrudisi]

I predict that Elan will control the battle and through his prowess be the difference between winning and losing this fight.

He's already demonstrated more competence than before just by stopping the poison.

[AtopTheMountain]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait.

If Haley had to push Elan out of the way of the crossbow bolt... then weren't they gunning for Elan?

[Wolfram]

I'll go out on a limb and say it's not related to V's Faustian bargain, but Girard or his group sent the dragon to stop these high level interlopers looking for the gate.

[Vemynal]

posting this for those wondering about V's strength score

But it seems...thematic... that the poison affecting V is Dragon bile who's initial strength damage is 3d6.

also: looks to me like Elan wasn't ever in danger according to the arrows path

[Shale]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait.

If Haley had to push Elan out of the way of the crossbow bolt... then weren't they gunning for Elan?

Looking at the art, it's not clear who the bolt was originally aimed at. It could have just been aimed near Elan, and Haley reacted on instinct.

[AtopTheMountain]

Looking at the art, it's not clear who the bolt was originally aimed at. It could have just been aimed near Elan, and Haley reacted on instinct.

Reading panels 9-11, V's wording seems to suggest that Elan would have been hit if Haley hadn't pushed him out of the way.

[Yuki Akuma]

Gotta say, I think Haley made the wrong choice. Also, wonder if Elan had some deja vu with the neutralize poison from the whole Therkla thing and thats why he had it prepared. Also, the crossbow wielding creature looks a lot like a green kobold to me. Might be a clue or might just be the art.

Bards don't prepare spells. They can cast any spell they know whenever they like, as long as they have enough spell slots.

[luagha]

Strength drain is the fastest, most sure way to take down a pure wizard with one arrow who isn't continually protected from poison. A Con drain poison is unlikely to do enough Con drain on the first shot to make the kill, whereas there are some high-initial-Str-drain poisons out there that steal a lot of Str immediately upon hitting.

Of course, V can still cast any Still Spells he might have. After all, he did see Xykon cast a few of those recently.

[Gift Jeraff]

My guess on these new scaly folk:
They work for the same boss as these guys (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html), mentioned by the Oracle in the eighth panel. Could Girard be their boss? Someone completely new? Something completely crazy like Trigak or Xyklon? Who knows!

[shadowkiller]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait.

If Haley had to push Elan out of the way of the crossbow bolt... then weren't they gunning for Elan?
Well he was the one asking in taverns if anyone knew of a secret organization in the desert. Maybe he did ask the right group and they now want to know what he knows.

[ericgrau]

Strength drain is the fastest, most sure way to take down a pure wizard with one arrow who isn't continually protected from poison. A Con drain poison is unlikely to do enough Con drain on the first shot to make the kill, whereas there are some high-initial-Str-drain poisons out there that steal a lot of Str immediately upon hitting.

Of course, V can still cast any Still Spells he might have. After all, he did see Xykon cast a few of those recently.
Sorcerers may spontaneous apply still spell. Vaarsuvius is a wizard. He is unlikely to even bother with the feat, since its use is so restricted. Either that or she must make all her spells 1 level lower, "just in case" (!). At best she has a couple emergency spells like tele-, aw banned conjuration. Yeah, when it comes to situational metamagic like still and silent, sorcerers are head and shoulders above wizards.

And since we all know poison is useless at high levels :smallsigh:...
dragon bile, DC 26, 3d6 strength, 1500 gp
Level 15 wizard fortitude save: 5 + 3 (con) + 3 cloak = 11 => 70% chance of failing the save

But look how expensive that is! Why would anyone bother with such a thing... except it can end encounters against opponents that would otherwise outclass you.

[Vulkan]

I hope that's a kobold in panel 4.

[Optimystik]

Strength drain is the fastest, most sure way to take down a pure wizard with one arrow who isn't continually protected from poison. A Con drain poison is unlikely to do enough Con drain on the first shot to make the kill, whereas there are some high-initial-Str-drain poisons out there that steal a lot of Str immediately upon hitting.

Which is just jarring to me, considering that V knows Protection from Arrows, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html) it lasts hours/level, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromarrows.htm) and we've already established that DR blocks contact poison in OotS. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html)

V is just so non-Batman that it's comical. :smalltongue: And his familiar is no better.


Of course, V can still cast any Still Spells he might have. After all, he did see Xykon cast a few of those recently.

We don't know if he even knows Still Spell. But there are two spells he knows that could be very helpful here, and will work without somatic components. One, he's used on dragons before. The other just screams Chekov's Skill to me.

[Shale]

PfA gives DR 10/magic against arrows. The poison was on a magic arrow (well, bolt).

[AtopTheMountain]

Which is just jarring to me, considering that V knows Protection from Arrows, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html) it lasts hours/level, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromarrows.htm) and we've already established that DR blocks contact poison in OotS. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html)

V is just so non-Batman that it's comical. :smalltongue: And his familiar is no better.



We don't know if he even knows Still Spell. But there are two spells he knows that could be very helpful here, and will work without somatic components. One, he's used on dragons before. The other just screams Chekov's Skill to me.

Well, it's not like he's expecting to be assassinated.

[Optimystik]

PfA gives DR 10/magic against arrows. The poison was on a magic arrow (well, bolt).

Ahh, missed that. He likely had V deliver that line to show that it would have beaten his PfA anyway.

Objection withdrawn!


Well, it's not like he's expecting to be assassinated.

Paranoia is generally very healthy for wizards.

[Gift Jeraff]

Well he was the one asking in taverns if anyone knew of a secret organization in the desert. Maybe he did ask the right group and they now want to know what he knows.
Hmm. Well, that reptilian guy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0710.html) was the only one pissed off...

[Elfey]

Hmm. Who are they?

1. Dragon/Dragonoids seeking revenge for familicide? Always possible. Tiamat seems to be against that, but there can be rogue actors. I'd imagine though the Oracle would be most likely follow the directions of Tiamat and Dragons would default to the Oracle for directions.
Further, V might have Cloister protection, its unclear the duration and rules about how it sticks to people, if entering the cloister is enough to get the protection or not. Judging from the comments about how O'chul isn't possible to view it's possible the same with V as they didn't look for V but did scry for O'Chul. Of course Team Evil might of just been dumb.
2. Girald's order. I don't think that's a tooth, but it could be and the draketooth pun would work.
3. New group, possible representing the guilds or rulers of the area. Perhaps there are no good mages because the good mages are dead from some anti-magic group?
4. Liner guild agent, seems unlikely, but they've been missing and love drama like this.
5. Tyrannia or a related group, also seems unlikely, but they should be showing up soon.

[taltamir]

Revenge Of The Indirect Blood Descendants?

OOTS is in huge trouble with Capital A.

or a direct family member who made their save :P

[taltamir]

Strength drain is the fastest, most sure way to take down a pure wizard with one arrow who isn't continually protected from poison. A Con drain poison is unlikely to do enough Con drain on the first shot to make the kill, whereas there are some high-initial-Str-drain poisons out there that steal a lot of Str immediately upon hitting.

Of course, V can still cast any Still Spells he might have. After all, he did see Xykon cast a few of those recently.

true... the average wizard has 8 strength or LESS... and a con of 14+ BEFORE magical buffs... (which typically include a +6 to con amulet)...
so... 8- str or 20+ con? hit him with str drain and then slit his throat.

although.. V casts protection from arrows in the battle, for some reason he doesn't always have it on even though its hour/CL duration
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromarrows.htm

I don't remember if V was level 13 or 15... but you sleep 8 hours and prepare spells for an hour and do both in a rope trick, 15 is the only amount of hours you need to protect against. A 13 level caster should break into his rope trick after 13 hours, relax for 2 hours, sleep for 8, prepare spells, then leave and adventure for 13 hours (all day buffs).

but, you know... plot.

[Optimystik]

true... the average wizard has 8 strength or LESS... and a con of 14+ BEFORE magical buffs... (which typically include a +6 to con amulet)...
so... 8- str or 20+ con? hit him with str drain and then slit his throat.

You know, sensible wizards (i.e. the ones that haven't banned conjuration) aren't rendered into paraplegic commoners by having 0 Str.

[taltamir]

You know, sensible wizards (i.e. the ones that haven't banned conjuration) aren't rendered into paraplegic commoners by having 0 Str.

how so? what spell do they use?

[amuletts]

All I have to say is that is *so* not Tiamat like some people are saying.
Well... maybe the animated D&D version...
But yay fighting! And V. is great.

[Mastikator]

Oh oh! Maybe the half-dragon wants to take revenge/collect some bounty on V's head for killing all those black dragons.

[Darius1020]

I don't know what V's worried about, Ice is doubly super effective against flying dragons, and arrows do extra damage against flying creatures!

[Optimystik]

how so? what spell do they use?

Ones with no somatic component of course. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Teleport.htm)

[Samuraiko]

While yes, I am quite concerned for V, as well as Haley and Elan in their upcoming battle, I suspect that the sexy shoeless god of war (along with Mr. Scruffy) will rapidly be along to save the day.

And I'm happy I was right that Elan would just looooove the ylang ylang scent. :D

[taltamir]

Ones with no somatic component of course. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Teleport.htm)

I thought you said "abjuration" for some reason, you obviously wrote conjuration. and the joke was the V was made during 2e when teleport wasn't conjuration.

[Shale]

although.. V casts protection from arrows in the battle, for some reason he doesn't always have it on even though its hour/CL duration
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromarrows.htm

As mentioned above, Protection From Arrows is worthless against a +1 bow. Those arrows were magic, which means PfA would have done as much good as a stern letter asking them not to shoot anybody.

[Pyron]

Those arrows were magic, which means PfA would have done as much good as a stern letter asking them not to shoot anybody.

I dunno... a stern letter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm) would be very useful.

[Optimystik]

I thought you said "abjuration" for some reason, you obviously wrote conjuration. and the joke was the V was made during 2e when teleport wasn't conjuration.

Actually, he was made in 3.0, when Teleportation effects were Transmutation - not 2e. And Conjuration was still good then, so my observation that sensible wizards wouldn't ban it stands.

3.5 made it the best school, but it was no slouch before then either.

[Hamilkar]

Very good. Well 712 is funny but still a tense situation. This humor is just what I need in the morning. :smallbiggrin:
V's remarks are simply great!

[spectralphoenix]

I predict that Elan will control the battle and through his prowess be the difference between winning and losing this fight.

He's already demonstrated more competence than before just by stopping the poison.

Which was completely useless (if you're already at STR 0, taking more strength damage a minute later doesn't double-paralyze you ar something.)

[Shale]

And never mind the damage it could have done if it was typed on a Smith Corona Blotspitter! (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=001732)

[Blaznak]

Well its another fine mess they've gotten themselves into...

[Pyron]

Well its another fine mess they've gotten themselves into...

I know.... it's a shame they don't have anyway to warn Roy and others. Maybe something like an animal messenger that can speak, preferably with a fly speed. :smallamused:

[taltamir]

As mentioned above, Protection From Arrows is worthless against a +1 bow. Those arrows were magic, which means PfA would have done as much good as a stern letter asking them not to shoot anybody.

oops. my bad.

[Selif]

"Mage Guild". I think that that joke is funny. All the Aton products and the "free" gift was so true. I always think that if a store can afford to give you a "free" gift, think how much they must be making off of you? Anyway, I predict a fight scene (duh) with Elan probably making some flight-related puns. I have noticed that Elan seemed to be more mature immedeatly after becoming the Dashing Swordsman, which has recently degenerated back to his original, immature, state.

-Selif

[Agi Hammerthief]

I know.... it's a shame they don't have anyway to warn Roy and others. Maybe something like an animal messenger that can speak, preferably with a fly speed. :smallamused:

that would have to be one the others actually believe is V's falimiar.

[CWater]

New comic first thing in the morning! Yay!:smallsmile: And a good one too!

Hmm...is it just me, or do this strip remind you about the fact that so many people tend to choose love over friendship, and that the consequences of such actions can be rather bad? Nah, I'm probably still too sleepy...:smallsigh:Grammar's all messed up...

But wasn't that arrow aimed for Elan? :smallconfused:If so, could it be that someone mistook him for Nale? Then again, that has happened at least twice before already, so...

[ZerglingOne]

There seems to be an issue with the opacity on Elan's rapier in panel 9, it's almost like it's completely insubstantial.

[Winter87]

I'm surprised Xykon/Team Evil hasn't been mentioned as possibilities. Afterall they could have scryed V and we all know how mad Xykon was.

[Watcher]

Meh. If they wanted them dead, it would take less than 5 rounds, 6, tops, for Xykon to "Scry and Die" Vaarsuvius and go on his merry way.

[DeltaEmil]

All I have to say is that is *so* not Tiamat like some people are saying.
Well... maybe the animated D&D version...
But yay fighting! And V. is great.Nobody is claiming that those dragonoids are Tiamat in any form. People theorize that those might be agents of her, not any of her avatars.

[Vemynal]

3.5 made it the best school, but it was no slouch before then either.

you know I've always been curious what schools people considered the best, worst, mediocre

I know Conj and Necro seem to be regarded as the two best

imo Illusions gotta be low on the list but that could just be my opinion

[jguy]

Two things.

1.) The arrow was for Elan as Haley knocked him out of the way so it hit V. It was unfortunately a high enough poison to strength to knock her to 0 from 8 (probably a max hit on a 2d4 or like a 3d6 if that exists). Edit: Looking at it again it could have either been for V or directly at Elan's head. Hard to tell with a 2D angle

2.) I wonder if V learned anything from her fight with Xykon. You never had power if you die from a single fail saved (as in a fort save here). Maybe she was smart and learned to prepare some Stilled spells that can save her, or ones with just verbal components and no material.

[LuisDantas]

(Maybe this is when we get rid of Belkar already? One can only hope.)

Hmm, formidable as that half-dragon seems to be, I seriously doubt this is revenge for Familicide. Revenge would be far more fierce.

It MAY be revenge for the death of the young black dragon, however. I don't particularly expect it, but it would be a nice warning to V on just how grave is his danger.

Still, odds are that this is simply a direct result of all that indiscreet asking around. It may well lead into Girard somehow.

And of course, Girard is an illusionist, so this opponent may just as well be an illusion. Come to think of it, it probably is. Such formidable creatures tend not to walk unnoticed in towns, after all.

Above all, it is nice to see how much wiser V got in the last few dozen strips. He is so much more serene even when things don't go his way. Of course, getting proper sleep (technically meditation, but really...) is bound to have helped.

[factotum]

Count me in the camp who thinks this is nothing to do with Familicide (although the half-dragon is a nice touch to make us think it is). As already pointed out, the bolt did not appear to be aimed at V, and having a Str of 0 does not necessarily prevent a high-level wizard messing up your day, so Str poison would have been an odd choice in that case.

What puzzles me is why they didn't just skewer all of them from hiding before sending in the big guy with the morning star...

[Superglucose]

:smallbiggrin:

new V is great.

[binyamin20]

Did anyone else see the mouth of another (green) dragon?

By the way, wouldn't it be cool if I had acid arrow:smalltongue:

[derfenrirwolv]

If the poison is dragonbile, its doubly moot, as dragonbile only requires contact.

[Harperfan7]

I have noticed that Elan seemed to be more mature immedeatly after becoming the Dashing Swordsman, which has recently degenerated back to his original, immature, state.

-Selif


When he didn't have his group around, he had to step up. Now that his group is back, he can slide back into his comfort position.


Anyways, I see three factors to keep us guessing about the dragons.
1. Blue half-dragon in a desert city
2. Girard is an illusionist (and being an arcanist, would know that using blue dragon illusions in the desert is more believable and may know that dragons are likely to attack this particular wizard)
3. Tiamat wants V dead (and the oracle knows where V is/is going)

[Herald Alberich]

There seems to be an issue with the opacity on Elan's rapier in panel 9, it's almost like it's completely insubstantial.

The Giant upgraded the art in this book. The rapier used to be a black line, but it's been silver since the fight with the slaver bugs.

[silvadel]

Usually it takes being taken to strength 0 for a wizard to start keeping still bulls strength memorized. I am still hoping blackwing is a little bit special and can do something here but you never know.

[DSCrankshaw]

Which was completely useless (if you're already at STR 0, taking more strength damage a minute later doesn't double-paralyze you ar something.)

Unless the secondary effect was Con damage rather than poison damage. The primary and secondary effect aren't always the same.

Anyway, I think the target was Elan...

...because they thought he was Nale. Nale is, I believe, from this continent, and the son of a (at one time, at least) prominent warlord. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are assassins after him.

[The_Weirdo]

You noticed the big tooth of the dragon...
dragon, tooth
drake, tooth
draketooth
girard draketooth

Just a thought.

Another thought: What if Girard was related to Mommy Dragon? And V killed him?

[Name Lips]

I think the half-blue-dragon was sent to capture, not kill. Str poison is great for capturing enemies. I think Gerard heard about the group of adventurers asking questions, and took steps to have some of them brought to him for questioning.

[The_Weirdo]

As mentioned above, Protection From Arrows is worthless against a +1 bow. Those arrows were magic, which means PfA would have done as much good as a stern letter asking them not to shoot anybody.

*Sends you a stern letter about the power of stern letters*

[Vemynal]

Unless the secondary effect was Con damage rather than poison damage. The primary and secondary effect aren't always the same.

Anyway, I think the target was Elan...

...because they thought he was Nale. Nale is, I believe, from this continent, and the son of a (at one time, at least) prominent warlord. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are assassins after him.

i think ur a genius

[Boogastreehouse]

One of the best uses of attacks that do ability score damage is to take out one opponent immediately.

Some characters are way more likely to have a low dump stat; wizards often have low strength. Hit them with an attack that targets that ability score, knock it to zero in one hit, and now you only have two opponents to fight instead of three.

[ZerglingOne]

The Giant upgraded the art in this book. The rapier used to be a black line, but it's been silver since the fight with the slaver bugs.

No no, I know that, But it's like...transparent in panel 9.

[Kaytara]

It's possible this is related to V's mass dragon killing spell, but if a God like Tiamat really wanted V dead I'd have expected either a poision that does CON damage (almost certainly lethal in V's case) or a lot more attackers. This seems a bit too small scale (relatively speaking) to be a revenge attack.


If they wanted to kill him, yes.

If they just wanted to capture him, on the other hand...

[HandofShadows]

Ah V is learning but can still see the practical side of things. I'm withg those that think that this is not a revenge for the killing of the black dragons.

[Teddy]

Ah, I love V's ability to make correct observations in situations where "Aaaaaaaaaahh!" would be the most common response.

[warmachine]

OMFG! Elan knows that bard spells can do things besides illusions! He's actually using his bard levels more effectively.

[Nilan8888]

Battle raging while V, on the ground, is freely able to comment on it?

I sense the best comedy oppetunity in at least a hundred strips on the horizon...

[taltamir]

"Mage Guild". I think that that joke is funny. All the Aton products and the "free" gift was so true. I always think that if a store can afford to give you a "free" gift, think how much they must be making off of you? Anyway, I predict a fight scene (duh) with Elan probably making some flight-related puns. I have noticed that Elan seemed to be more mature immedeatly after becoming the Dashing Swordsman, which has recently degenerated back to his original, immature, state.

-Selif

he only got slightly more mature when he became a dashing swordsman... he became more competent then...
He became a little more mature from being in a relationship with haly.
when that half orc ninja girl died he became a lot more mature...
His character development occurred over time, not all at once.

[Sterm]

Why V doesn't get up?The poison was neutralized.:smallconfused:

[Zxo]

Why V doesn't get up?The poison was neutralized.:smallconfused:

It's explained in the comic - the spell stopped the poison from doing more damage, but it didn't give V back the strength that has been drained already, so s/he is too weak to move.

[Sterm]

But she can still casts spells,right?

[Teddy]

But she can still casts spells,right?

No, V is effectivly paralyzed and helpless, and thus can't cast spells (at least not those with a somatic component, but both Suggestion and Feather Fall have proven to be usefull before and they are both verbal. There might be a lack of portals for Hold Portal though.

[Zxo]

But she can still casts spells,right?

Only still spells, ones that do not require the caster to move. Spells require words, gestures, sometimes material components, being immobilized limits what you can cast. Wizards prepare spells for the day, so it may be that V, not expecting this, does not have anything useful that s/he could cast while unable to move.

[J.Gellert]

Awesome strip! Awesomest in a while :smallbiggrin:

[Moogleking]

5GP say's that Dragon formed Girard.

[Skeppio]

On topic, I don't think it's related to familicide. Those were Black Dragons, this is blue. Far more likely this is related to Girard.

The children of Tiamat can be of four more colours than Black.

[Athaniar]

I don't think Tiamat is behind this, Girard is more likely. If Tiamat wants revenge, she has more effective means than two half-dragons and poison arrows. And yes, I think the second one is also a half-dragon. It seems to be about the same size as the blue (i.e. large), and the snout has the same general shape.

[hamishspence]

Two? I thought it was the same guy- who shot a crossbow bolt, and then swooped down to attack.

[talkamancer]

Enjoying the action Giant.

[kusje]

Two? I thought it was the same guy- who shot a crossbow bolt, and then swooped down to attack.

I initially thought so too but different colored snouts and the word "attackers" being used by V leads me to conclude otherwise.

[Dark_Tangente]

Great comic,
It is likely that the rest of the party arrive to help even the fight
or... they can be captured by the half-dragons and brought directly to Girard

Maybe the second reptilian thing is the lizardman from #210

[Orzel]

rule 1
Run from all types of blue dragons.

[Kareasint]

It's quite simple really. They have been asking questions. They now have someone's attention. More than likely, the sniper was using strength poison to immobilize V to prevent spell casting. It appears to have been watching the OOTS for a while.

[Weimann]

Okay, what am I missing with the supposed punchline? It seems a correct statement. Why is it funny?

[DeltaEmil]

Okay, what am I missing with the supposed punchline? It seems a correct statement. Why is it funny?The title is spoofing the spell 'Neutralize Poison'.

[HandofShadows]

The title is spoofing the spell 'Neutralize Poison'.

It can be played several ways. Elan nutralizing (the poisoned) elf and the poisoned crossbow bolt neutralizing an elf. The Giant must put a creat deal of though into his titles.

[Optimystik]

No, V is effectivly paralyzed and helpless, and thus can't cast spells (at least not those with a somatic component, but both Suggestion and Feather Fall have proven to be usefull before and they are both verbal. There might be a lack of portals for Hold Portal though.

Prediction spoilered:

He knows one spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html) that might be very useful here, that doesn't require somatic components.
Chekhov's Skill (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.ptitle1b1m5fiycpie) anyone?


What puzzles me is why they didn't just skewer all of them from hiding before sending in the big guy with the morning star...

Maybe they are trying to capture and not kill.


you know I've always been curious what schools people considered the best, worst, mediocre

I know Conj and Necro seem to be regarded as the two best

imo Illusions gotta be low on the list but that could just be my opinion

Spoilered as this is somewhat off-topic:

Necromancy is actually somewhat poor - like evocation, it's narrow, just lots of different ways to kill things or ruin their day. You can obtain minions with it, but that's a job better left to the Cleric.

The two best are Conjuration and Transmutation. Either you're summoning what you need to solve a problem, or you're turning into what you need to solve a problem. In addition, Conjuration can damage almost as well as evocation, and it got all the teleportation and planar travel spells as well.

Transmutation was by far the best school in 3.0, especially with Haste jacked up the way it was.

The two worst are Evocation and Enchantment. Each is a one-trick pony; Evocation does little besides damage, and Enchantment's tricks are all blocked by a handful of spells. (Mind Blank, Pro: Evil.)

Illusion is actually 3rd strongest, because it can mimic Conjuration so well. It has significant combat and social uses.

[hamishspence]

I initially thought so too but different colored snouts and the word "attackers" being used by V leads me to conclude otherwise.

There could be two guys up there in that first panel of the attackers- a guy with a greenish snout (and crossbow), partially obscured by the blue guy with wings.

[Phoenix Xul]

Oracle? That's how the Momma Black Dragon found hir in the first place, after all.

I was kind of under the impression that, technically, Haerta did the Familicide, which could render the oracle useless.

[factotum]

Maybe they are trying to capture and not kill.


I meant, why not put a STR-reducing poison bolt into all three of them before entering melee? Not that they should try to kill them with the arrows.

[doodthedud]

I'll admit, I only read the first page....but did anyone realize it appeared to be aiming for Elan's head, and not V's chest? Because it hitting V only happened because Elan was moved.


There could be two guys up there in that first panel of the attackers- a guy with a greenish snout (and crossbow), partially obscured by the blue guy with wings.
This looks to be true, that crossbow is at an odd angle to be held by Blue, V mentioned AttackerS, and nothing on the blue dude's person seems capable of being mistaken for the green snout.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

OK, I only skimmed a few pages of the thread, so I may have missed any earlier discussion...

Rich didn't use a smilie to open the thread. It's the first time I've ever seen that left out. I would think :smallyuk: or :smalleek: or even :smallfurious: would have been appropriate for this strip.

Any thoughts?

[gosh]

V's black dragon massacre almost certainly will come back to bite
hir in the butt, but it's been too soon. More likely these are Girard's assasins.

[Crod]

There are definitely two non-human creatures up on the roof. I doubt this has to do with the black dragon, it makes no sense plot-wise.

My bet is on Girard hiring some local powerful thugs to abduct one of the OOTS. I bet he's too by curious now to just go in and kill the team. Girard's non-lawful alignment makes it reasonable for him to deal with these kind of creatures as well.

[Aimbot]

There are definitely two non-human creatures up on the roof. I doubt this has to do with the black dragon, it makes no sense plot-wise.

My bet is on Girard hiring some local powerful thugs to abduct one of the OOTS. I bet he's too by curious now to just go in and kill the team. Girard's non-lawful alignment makes it reasonable for him to deal with these kind of creatures as well.

remember how Tiamat had multiple colored heads? Specifically whatever it is (he/she) it had a blue head and a green head. Therefore a blue and a green half dragon makes sense, right?

My money's on a price on V's head sent out by Tiamat, who can't be bothered.

[Ikialev]

remember how Tiamat had multiple colored heads? Specifically whatever it is (he/she) it had a blue head and a green head. Therefore a blue and a green half dragon makes sense, right?
It makes too much sense. It surely must be a Tiamat half-dragon!

Anyway. How low V's strength score had to be, if it was reduced to 0 by a single poisoned bolt?

[Snake-Aes]

It makes too much sense. It surely must be a Tiamat half-dragon!

Anyway. How low V's strength score had to be, if it was reduced to 0 by a single poisoned bolt?

People are guessing it's dragon bile, so V has 3d6 strength.

[Magicyop]

Oh, come on... Didn't it seem obvious to anyone else? The dragon was aiming for Elan, but Haley pushed him down, so it hit V. A dragon assassin specifically hired to kill V and only V wouldn't aim for Elan. Either it's attempting to kill all of them, or Elan specifically.

Alternatively, it is using strength draining bolts, the equivalent of D&D tranquilizer darts. Maybe it is trying to capture them.

[Snake-Aes]

Alternatively, it is using strength draining bolts, the equivalent of D&D tranquilizer darts. Maybe it is trying to capture them.

That would be drow poison. Causes unconsciousness.

[Kaytara]

Oh, come on... Didn't it seem obvious to anyone else? The dragon was aiming for Elan, but Haley pushed him down, so it hit V. A dragon assassin specifically hired to kill V and only V wouldn't aim for Elan. Either it's attempting to kill all of them, or Elan specifically.

Alternatively, it is using strength draining bolts, the equivalent of D&D tranquilizer darts. Maybe it is trying to capture them.

We don't really know for sure that he was aiming for Elan. From panel 4 we can see that, from the perspective of the attackers, V would be slightly behind Elan and somewhat to the left. The bolt might have hit V even if Haley hadn't pushed Elan out of the way. She just saw a crossbow being pointed in his general direction and reacted, like she said.

[Bedinsis]

Has there ever before been a comic that attempts to put a frame in three-dimensional perspective? (not just implying with size difference or having a seperate object drawn in 3d as a cosmetic detail)

[Nimrod's Son]

Has there ever before been a comic that attempts to put a frame in three-dimensional perspective? (not just implying with size difference or having a seperate object drawn in 3d as a cosmetic detail)
Forgotten this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0705.html) already?

[Asta Kask]

We don't really know for sure that he was aiming for Elan. From panel 4 we can see that, from the perspective of the attackers, V would be slightly behind Elan and somewhat to the left. The bolt might have hit V even if Haley hadn't pushed Elan out of the way. She just saw a crossbow being pointed in his general direction and reacted, like she said.

Taking out the spellcaster certainly makes sense tactics-wise.

[Bedinsis]

Forgotten this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0705.html) already?

Appearantly. Thanks for the reply/answer :smile:

[Swordpriest]

OK, I only skimmed a few pages of the thread, so I may have missed any earlier discussion...

Rich didn't use a smilie to open the thread. It's the first time I've ever seen that left out. I would think :smallyuk: or :smalleek: or even :smallfurious: would have been appropriate for this strip.

Any thoughts?

Actually, I kind of like the absence of a smiley. It makes it seem more like we're supposed to make up our own minds about our reaction to the thread, and not take a pre-programmed response right at the start. But maybe I'm just overthinking it. I tend to do that sometimes. :smallwink:

Anyway, there's still an hour left before the team is supposed to gather, so I suspect there's a chance we'll see separate Durkon, Roy, and Belkar strips as well. Perhaps after this event is resolved, perhaps first, so as to leave this one as a cliffhanger, at least briefly.

[Drolyt]

Hey, I missed that a new comic was posted last night, what happened there? Oh well. Good comic, good update schedule, yay! Go Giant!

[Roland Itiative]

What if they are Girard's followers and seeking revenge for Familicide (knowingly or not)? I mean, Girard, as a sorcerer, can have inherited his powers from being of a certain draconic bloodline. This wouldn't necessarily keep him dead, but would certainly make him angry...

Also, one hour still everyone gathers there... that's 600 turns! Haley and Elan better not expect any reinforcements for the battle:smallbiggrin:

[Swordpriest]

What if they are Girard's followers and seeking revenge for Familicide (knowingly or not)? I mean, Girard, as a sorcerer, can have inherited his powers from being of a certain draconic bloodline. This wouldn't necessarily keep him dead, but would certainly make him angry...

Also, one hour still everyone gathers there... that's 600 turns! Haley and Elan better not expect any reinforcements for the battle:smallbiggrin:

Personally, I figure it's Girard's goons and/or some kind of mercenaries/bounty hunters who heard that these people are asking around about Girard, and are hoping to capture them and hand them over for some kind of reward. I wonder if Durkon, Roy, and Belkar are going to be attacked separately?

[Dark_Tangente]

Also, one hour still everyone gathers there... that's 600 turns! Haley and Elan better not expect any reinforcements for the battle

Haley, V and Elan probably were supposed to investigate one more hour before the rendez-vous with the team.
It is likely that neither Roy, Durkon or Belkar found anything useful. One (or more) of them could arrive at the meeting point before the end of the fight and help haley and elan.
The other option is that Haley, V and Elan are captured by the dragons and that the rest of the party will need to locate and rescue them.

If only Durkon would arrive during the fight he could restore V's strength

[Optimystik]

Actually, I kind of like the absence of a smiley. It makes it seem more like we're supposed to make up our own minds about our reaction to the thread, and not take a pre-programmed response right at the start. But maybe I'm just overthinking it. I tend to do that sometimes. :smallwink:

I always thought it was showing his reaction to the strip, or even the general attitude of the characters within it.

For example, the smile, for Redcloak's speech to Gobbotopia, showing how upbeat he felt at that point. Later, the frown for Tsukiko's verbal beatdown of Redcloak's ego, showing how downtrodden he was then.

[DabblerWizard]

Oh no! V!

Can he cast spells while prone? I guess we'll find out.

[Scarlet Knight]

I know.... it's a shame they don't have anyway to warn Roy and others. Maybe something like an animal messenger that can speak, preferably with a fly speed. :smallamused:


V: "Go, loyal Blackwing! Fetch hither Sir Greenhilt"
*Flap Flap Flap *
Blackwing: Caw! Caw! Caw!
Roy: "Do you hear something?"
Belkar: I think I just failed my listen check..."

[doodthedud]

There are definitely two non-human creatures up on the roof. I doubt this has to do with the black dragon, it makes no sense plot-wise.

My bet is on Girard hiring some local powerful thugs to abduct one of the OOTS. I bet he's too by curious now to just go in and kill the team. Girard's non-lawful alignment makes it reasonable for him to deal with these kind of creatures as well.

And to use this method to talk to them.


What if they are Girard's followers and seeking revenge for Familicide (knowingly or not)? I mean, Girard, as a sorcerer, can have inherited his powers from being of a certain draconic bloodline. This wouldn't necessarily keep him dead, but would certainly make him angry...

Oh come on, now you're just reaching.

[Weimann]

Okay, what am I missing with the supposed punchline? It seems a correct statement. Why is it funny?
The title is spoofing the spell 'Neutralize Poison'.Yes, that one I got, thanks :smallsmile:

I've seen people giggling at "we are almost certainly going to die", though. What's that all about?

[Magicyop]

Oh no! V!

Can he cast spells while prone? I guess we'll find out.

Any spells that have no somatic component is my guess, which isn't a lot. I suppose V probably hasn't taken the still spell feat? That's the only way he/she could conceivably help, in my mind.

[Shale]

As mentioned, Power Word Blind is a possibility. It would bring Sneak Attack back into play for Haley, which is pretty huge.

[The Pink Ninja]

V has made herself the personal enemy of an entire race...

Nice

This is the kind of thing long running D&D games should be about.

[Silverraptor]

Eh. V's attitude so far is a little annoying.:smallannoyed: But, we haven't seen him enough to really judge him after his fight with Xykon. So I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[zimmerwald1915]

Oh come on, now you're just reaching.
It wouldn't surprise me if Girard was actually killed by Familicide, that the Order learns of it in a few strips, possibly from the assassin(s)and that hilarity ensues. Apart from being another way to torture V, it plays into the whole "senselessly killing everything you see just because you can isn't the way to play the game/live your life" sub-theme.

[John Cribati]

If this campaign took place in some bastard child of Pokemon and Fire Emblem, that Thing would go down in one hit.

[John Cribati]

I've seen people giggling at "we are almost certainly going to die", though. What's that all about?

We're all assuming a deadpan delivery. And jokes about death can be funny sometimes.

[Vreejack]

I hadn't noticed anyone mentioning what to me seems obvious, but

1) If Gerard is involved then the half-dragons are almost certainly illusionary, somehow.

2) The crossbow bolt was aimed at Elan, not Vaarsuvius.

Now why would anyone want to take out Elan first? Either the attackers are somewhat stupid or all is not as it seems, which suggests Gerard again.

Edit: Or they reasonably suspect that Elan has some real ability to stop them, which must be quite odd, and is possibly the makings of a great case of mistaken identity, etc. But let's not go there.

[BenTheJester]

I don't get the joke in the title

[John Cribati]

I hadn't noticed anyone mentioning what to me seems obvious, but

1) If Gerard is involved then the half-dragons are almost certainly illusionary, somehow.

2) The crossbow bolt was aimed at Elan, not Vaarsuvius.

Now why would anyone want to take out Elan first? Either the attackers are somewhat stupid or all is not as it seems, which suggests Gerard again.

One idea: They have more than one of those Magical bolts. Elan's the only one who could possibly cast healing spells. Take him out and watch the poison sap the other two.

Now that I think about it, Elan is actually one of the more optimized members of the Order, what with a bunch of skills focusing 18 Charisma. Haley could probably take 3-5 hits with that morningstar before going down. As for
V, they may have more arrows. Not that that couldn't be solved with a Protection From Arrows spell, but yeah.

[Gift Jeraff]

Anyway, I think the target was Elan...

...because they thought he was Nale. Nale is, I believe, from this continent, and the son of a (at one time, at least) prominent warlord. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are assassins after him.
Alternatively, the Linear Guild has taken over a country, probably the "new place" mentioned in #680 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0680.html) and/or the ?? seen on #698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html)'s map, and these guys hope to usurp him/end his reign of terror/something to that effect.

[RMS Oceanic]

Ooh, time for some off the wall speculation based on the fact they went for Elan first:

What if these guys are working for the Tyrinar formerly known as Lord, and are attacking Elan because they think he's Nale, who had something to do with the downfall of Tyrinaria?

EDIT: Aww, beaten to the mark.

[Inkling]

All I can say is:

Ooooouuuucccchhh.

[DSCrankshaw]

Alternatively, the Linear Guild has taken over a country, probably the "new place" mentioned in #680 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0680.html) and/or the ?? seen on #698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html)'s map, and these guys hope to usurp him/end his reign of terror/something to that effect.

That seems unlikely, as they were last seen heading for the northern gate. However, as that was about a year ago, a lot could have happened by now, I suppose.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more likely they were sent to capture, rather than kill, Nale. Maybe his own father sent them to bring his son home. Thus, this is a useful way to head into the Tyrinar subplot.

[Herald Alberich]

As for
V, they may have more arrows. Not that that couldn't be solved with a Protection From Arrows spell, but yeah.

As mentioned, it can't. Protection from Arrows is useless against magic weaponry. V probably did cast the spell this morning, which is why he noted that the crossbow bolt was magic - his spell didn't stop it.

[DSCrankshaw]

There's been some speculation that the arrow was aimed at Elan, rather than V, and why that might be. One idea that I like is that they thought Elan was Nale, and they were sent either to kill or capture him.

So, who thinks this might be a lead in to the Elan's and Haley's fathers subplot?

[Sijo]

Woo! Action! And actual use of D&D stuff! No lame or dirty jokes! And (bonus) no Belkar yet!! Best strip in a long while!! :smallbiggrin:

As for who is attacking them, the logical assumption is that the apparently-lame city they're investigating isn't so simple after all and that it has at least some powerful crooks who don't like adventurers from outside poking their noses around. Of course, the fact that the attackers seem to be draconians does make it possible that it has something to do with V's dragon genocide. Either way I'm certainly eager to see what happens next!

Btw Elan knows Neutralize Poison? Is that a Bard spell or does it come from his other class?

Oh, and the best part was V saying that Haley had made the correct decision in saving the life of her lover instead of his (which would have been tactically more sound); even if he said it with some irony, the fact is that V is finally showing appreciation for others' emotions. The old V would just have blasted her for not protecting him. Go character development!! :smallsmile:

[Warpwolf16]

The question is why was V affect by a poison or magical bolt.Doesnt elves have immunity to poisons :smallconfused:

[Lin Bayaseda]

Only if it was a Sleeping Poison.

[Zherog]

Only if it was a Sleeping Poison.

Elves are only immune to magical sleep. Sleep poison affects them.


Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.

[Nilan8888]

Oh, and the best part was V saying that Haley had done the correct decision in saving the life of her lover instead of his (which would have been tactically more sound); even if he said it with some irony, the fact is that V is finally showing appreciation for others' emotions. The old V would just have blasted her for not protecting him. Go character development!!

Actually I'd say the best part is how this sets up the next strip. With V lying on the ground and able to observe everything going on yet being unable to do anything, I'd say there's a fair bit of comedy you could exploit out of that situation.

Basically, imagine Haley shooting arrow after arrow and V having criticisms or more deadpan observations. Yeah, tons of hilarious potential right there. I'm not sure if the Giant has done that angle before.

[zimmerwald1915]

Btw Elan knows Neutralize Poison? Is that a Bard spell or does it come from his other class?
It's a bard spell.

[Ancalagon]

Actually, when taking a look at the comic, the arrow seems to go straight for Vaarsuvius.

Now there are three explanations for that:
A) Vaarsvuius was a random target.
B) They tried to take out the mage first ("Geek the mage first!"), which is a pretty smart thing.
C) As they are dragon-beings (a blue one!) they somehow know about the Familicide that took out a black dragon being and shot at Vaarsuvius for that reason.

C) Seems pretty unlikely, though.

[zimmerwald1915]

In Panel 4 Elan doesn't seem to be standing in front of V from the shooter's point of view.

[Komitadji]

One idea that I like is that they thought Elan was Nale, and they were sent either to kill or capture him.

So, who thinks this might be a lead in to the Elan's and Haley's fathers subplot?

Possible. And interesting, actually. We don't know where Elan or Nale are from, do we?

Anyway. My first thought was actually that this attacker was sent by the Linear Guild. It's been almost 300 strips since we've even seen them. It's high time for another of Nale's ridiculous plans. Or something.

[NerfTW]

Anyway. My first thought was actually that this attacker was sent by the Linear Guild. It's been almost 300 strips since we've even seen them. It's high time for another of Nale's ridiculous plans. Or something.

That would be an impressively awesome increase in threat level, and would go with Nale's whole not wanting any more D-list hangers on.

[Scarlet Knight]

No, no : the arrow wasn't aimed at Elan but at what he was carrying! The dragonkin is a salesperson from Aton's rival Merry Slay ! :smallwink:

[Ancalagon]

That would be an impressively awesome increase in threat level, and would go with Nale's whole not wanting any more D-list hangers on.

Nale IS the D-lister. ;)

[DSCrankshaw]

In Panel 4 Elan doesn't seem to be standing in front of V from the shooter's point of view.

Quite possible, although far from certain either way--we don't have a direct view, and after making allowances for the art, it can go either way. I like my interpretation more, though, since it gets us to a plot we've been waiting for.


Possible. And interesting, actually. We don't know where Elan or Nale are from, do we?

We believe that Nale and his father are from the Western Continent (though it doesn't seem likely that Elan grew up there). This is based largely on the assumption that the man who captured Haley's father and held him for ransom is Elan's father, as seems likely, but I don't think has been shown definitively.

Is there any evidence on this that I'm missing?

[Beowulf DW]

In Panel 4 Elan doesn't seem to be standing in front of V from the shooter's point of view.

Good point. So either the shooter moved to get a better shot, or Elan/V moved (maybe they started walking again?).

Still, if Haley hadn't pushed Elan out of the way, that would've been a headshot. So Elan is definitely the target.

My theories:
1) Nale's got better back-up now.
2) One of the enemies of Elan's father noticed him and decided to kill our favorite Bard. The hypothetical enemy would likely fear that Elan was trying to follow in his father's footsteps. No fear of revenge from Elan, though, since Nale was the one that killed their father.
3) These guys are enemies of the OotS and just happened to target Elan first. In combat, one usually attacks the opponent's weakest point, which most people percieve as Elan. Conversely, they thought that Elan was actually the most effective member of the group and attempted to neutralize him first, and only by raw luck did they manage to incapacitate the Order's most powerful member.

[Arrowstorm122]

nice strip.
i think most about who send the freak-half-dragon-with-the-giant-morningstar. it could be...
1: a new side in the fight of the gate.
2: some from the people who has Haleys daddy.
3: cause they was sight after Elan as it looked, it could be cause Nale whos was away the whole 4.. he have get some time to get some eeeeevil stuff started.

[Doug Lampert]

As mentioned above, Protection From Arrows is worthless against a +1 bow. Those arrows were magic, which means PfA would have done as much good as a stern letter asking them not to shoot anybody.

Protection from arrows will do a perfectly good job of stopping MOST (not all) of the arrows where someone was willing to spend 1500+ GP on poison, but not 57 additional GP on a magical bolt (or 10 GP hiring a caster for a level 1 spell since this is an ambush in a city with low level casters available, or just owning a non-consumable magical bow).

A poisoned but non-magical bolt is like a level 6+ druids without natural spell, it's such a phenominally poor design decision that you have to assume it's a deliberate nerf if it happens.

[Morquard]

I think it was aimed at V. Mages generally have low strenght, so a strength poison is a quite effective way to neutralise them, especially when no healer is near. That it knocked him out at the first hit indicates a high roll on the poison damage and a low str on V's part, but thats possible.
That Elan knows Neutralise Poison was most likely unknown to the attacker, so far he only had used silly illusion spells etc. If not then the second damage effect would most likely have done this.

Doesn't rule out Nale as being the one behind it, after all it was V that not only discovered who he was last time, but also insulted his geniusness in the process.

[Gitman00]

Heh. If this is more Familicide vengeance, I can totally see it becoming a regular occurrence with Vaarsuvius.

[kusje]

That would be an impressively awesome increase in threat level, and would go with Nale's whole not wanting any more D-list hangers on.

Hmm, what exactly is the threat level from 2 of these half dragons?

[doodthedud]

It wouldn't surprise me if Girard was actually killed by Familicide, that the Order learns of it in a few strips, possibly from the assassin(s)and that hilarity ensues. Apart from being another way to torture V, it plays into the whole "senselessly killing everything you see just because you can isn't the way to play the game/live your life" sub-theme.

The whole "Getting your ass whooped by a lich and only escaping by sheer luck" thing and the "your family gets attacked by momma dragon and you get divorced over it" wasn't enough? If they go any more into that sub-plot anymore, they should just rename the comic to "Darth V: The story of a funny wizard turned Emo". Not to mention killing me now so I don't have to endure that bull. I liked V BECAUSE V senselessly blew stuff up. I'm happy how they worked the 'reformation' into it like with "and that would be bad" and the like, but I don't want V to be hunted forever for something that made me go "Hell yeah! GO V! Best thing you ever done!"(This would be referring to when he cast familicide, and his accompanying speech, it was pretty much the best/most awesome thing ever). It would lead to an entirely too-serious comic. Nor do I want V to become totally serious, much as I enjoy seeing his goodness shining through.

How about actually making contact with someone important instead of MORE searching comics? Or even an attack from the Linear Guild? Something new, please! Thank god the Giant is unaffected by random forum obsessions/paranoia.


Oh, and the best part was V saying that Haley had done the correct decision in saving the life of her lover instead of his (which would have been tactically more sound); even if he said it with some irony, the fact is that V is finally showing appreciation for others' emotions. The old V would just have blasted her for not protecting him. Go character development!!

Actually I'd say the best part is how this sets up the next strip. With V lying on the ground and able to observe everything going on yet being unable to do anything, I'd say there's a fair bit of comedy you could exploit out of that situation.

Basically, imagine Haley shooting arrow after arrow and V having criticisms or more deadpan observations. Yeah, tons of hilarious potential right there. I'm not sure if the Giant has done that angle before.

V's Sarcasm is usually one of the best things in the world. Hilarity could indeed ensue from his outrage at being immobile but still able to speak.

[Draconi Redfir]

well the arrow would have hit Elan/Haley if she haddent pushed Elan out of the way, so im guessing that the target was suppoed to be one of those two, and not V. we'll probibly find out in the next comic.

[doodthedud]

There's been some speculation that the arrow was aimed at V, rather than Elan, and why that might be.

Fixed. The arrow was initially headed at Elan's head, regardless of what its target was, and the proper grammatical way to say it would be to state the obvious (Aimed at Elan) over the speculation (aimed at V).

Look at how far Elan is down as he gets knocked over. The arrow passes right where his head was. The arrow would have been through his skull before hitting V.

Could it be aimed at V initially? yes.
But it flew to Elan regardless, and he was saved only by Haley jumping on him.


I think it was aimed at V. Mages generally have low strenght, so a strength poison is a quite effective way to neutralise them, especially when no healer is near. That it knocked him out at the first hit indicates a high roll on the poison damage and a low str on V's part, but thats possible.
That Elan knows Neutralise Poison was most likely unknown to the attacker, so far he only had used silly illusion spells etc. If not then the second damage effect would most likely have done this.

Doesn't rule out Nale as being the one behind it, after all it was V that not only discovered who he was last time, but also insulted his geniusness in the process.

Elan, good sir, is a healer. HE is a bard, and they can heal. Any capable assassin/agent would guess his class and know what he was potentially capable of. And would then prepare accordingly.

[Aenghus]

It does occur to me that V constantly underestimates Elan, Elan not being big in the brains department. His dire pronouncement should be seen in that light.

[Morquard]

well the arrow would have hit Elan/Haley if she haddent pushed Elan out of the way, so im guessing that the target was suppoed to be one of those two, and not V. we'll probibly find out in the next comic.
I'm not sure about that, there's no real way to tell depth in a stick figure comic, so the arrow could fly behind of infront of those two.
If the attacker is the one in panel 4, then from that perspective it would fly 2 or 3 feet past Elan if it ends up hitting V.
If it was aimed at Elan and hit V... that would mean a second shooter.

[doodthedud]

I'm not sure about that, there's no real way to tell depth in a stick figure comic, so the arrow could fly behind of infront of those two.
If the attacker is the one in panel 4, then from that perspective it would fly 2 or 3 feet past Elan if it ends up hitting V.
If it was aimed at Elan and hit V... that would mean a second shooter.

Or, the assassins/heroes......*gasp*.......MOVED since that panel. Perhaps to get a better shot.


we don't have a direct view, and after making allowances for the art,

I applaud your sensibility.

[DBear]

I'm a bit surprised Haley let herself get taken in like that.



In panel 4, Haley has her "skeptical" face, as if she suspects an ambush. I don't see Haley as getting taken in at all.

[Starbuck_II]

Hmm, what exactly is the threat level from 2 of these half dragons?

1/2 Dragon adds +4 LA and +2 CR. So depends on their class.

They could be 1/2 Dragon Rogue 6= CR 8. But the most inportant factor isn't their level, but their gear (poisoned apparently).

[doodthedud]

In panel 4, Haley has her "skeptical" face, as if she suspects an ambush. I don't see Haley as getting taken in at all.

You're right, that could well be a "What was that shadow?" kind of face.

[ThePhantasm]

Huh... Girard's dragon or an ally of the Black dragons???

[ThePhantasm]

The arrow was aimed at V but from her perspective, reacting in a limited amount of time, Haley had no way to know that so she pushed Elan out of the way.

[John Cribati]

Assuming a non-wonky depth perception, I would say that if the arrow were aimed for Elan, it came from the direction of (and thus the shooter would be at or near) the top right corner of the fourth panel, wherever that may be on the street.