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RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-06, 09:50 AM
Is there any builds that actually make use of this PRC? is there any way to make it better. The fluff looks cool permanent incorporeal seems nifty.


Any ways what are peoples thoughts on the class?

The Glyphstone
2010-04-06, 10:32 AM
Loses too many ML's to be effective...but getting level 10 and Null Psionics Field is an amusing method of near-invincibility.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-06, 10:35 AM
lol... thats pritty amusing...

wouldn't an ardent work well with it do to its unique power aquisition?

Blackfang108
2010-04-06, 10:55 AM
lol... thats pritty amusing...

wouldn't an ardent work well with it do to its unique power aquisition?

Practiced Manifester would help, but I think you'd be low on power points.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-06, 10:59 AM
Practiced Manifester would help, but I think you'd be low on power points.

Specifically, you'd miss out on 89pp, assuming you entered this class as an Ardent 5, and progressed to Ardent 5/Uncarnate 10.

That's not too terribly bad, if you use methods to recover PP.

Optimystik
2010-04-06, 12:05 PM
Ardent is indeed your best bet, as you still get 9ths.

89 PP sounds big, but you still end up with twice the PP of a Psywar at 20, and triple at 15. With the PP you save on needing some defensive/transportation powers, it may well be worthwhile.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-06, 12:15 PM
Ardent is indeed your best bet, as you still get 9ths.

89 PP sounds big, but you still end up with twice the PP of a Psywar at 20, and triple at 15. With the PP you save on needing some defensive/transportation powers, it may well be worthwhile.

Assuming you continue to advance at full progression (a wise choice):

Level 15: -89 pp
Level 16: -95 pp
Level 17: -103 pp
Level 18: -110 pp
Level 19: -116 pp
Level 20: -122 pp

This is assuming you have the base PP of a character 4 levels below the actual level. It's pretty significant, about 1/3 of your base pp, but again, not crippling.

Optimystik
2010-04-06, 12:25 PM
Yes - as you go up in levels, the gap increases. But you end up at 221 base PP (compared to a Psywar's 127) and only 3 less powers known.

Skipping the capstone still lets you be Uncarnate 2/day, and grants you an additional 29 base PP and a power. If you don't anticipate needing to be a ghost all the time, it's something to consider.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-06, 12:29 PM
Yes - as you go up in levels, the gap increases. But you end up at 221 base PP (compared to a Psywar's 127) and only 3 less powers known.

Skipping the capstone still lets you be Uncarnate 2/day, and grants you an additional 29 base PP and a power. If you don't anticipate needing to be a ghost all the time, it's something to consider.

That's some of the appeal the capstone.

I almost wonder if taking the loss of 9th level powers and just going strait caster ish would be better.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-06, 12:48 PM
That's some of the appeal the capstone.

I almost wonder if taking the loss of 9th level powers and just going strait caster ish would be better.

Well, you can get an extra minute/day of being Incorporeal via Shape Soulmeld+Open Chakra.


Or you could just get Etherealness at will via the same trick.


Honestly, 9th level powers aren't as strong as 9th level spells. There's a few bombs, but the best 9th level powers are augmented low level ones. At least, IMO.

Optimystik
2010-04-06, 12:53 PM
That's some of the appeal the capstone.

I almost wonder if taking the loss of 9th level powers and just going strait caster ish would be better.

You'll have the same PP reduction whether you take the 9th-level powers or not. All Ardent does is base your power selection off your ML, letting you delay it instead of forcing you to take powers in sequence.

You can pick your powers in sequence with Ardent if you want (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. all the way up to 8ths at level 19) just as you're forced to do with a Psion. An Ardent simply has the option of skipping a level or two in the middle to grab 9ths at 17, the same level it would get them going straight Ardent. You're free to then keep taking 9ths, or backfill if you'd rather do that.

The reason an Ardent can do this is because the level they can choose powers from is based on their Manifester Level, rather than where they are in the sequence.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-06, 01:05 PM
Correct. You're going to eat the PP loss regardless. The difference between ardent and Psion is basically a few higher level powers, vs a much wider selection of powers.

Ardents are limited by Mantles. With 5 levels of Ardent, you'll have 4 mantles to choose from. With 10 levels of ardent, you'll get 5 mantles.

It's enough to cover a wide range of themes, but there are several powers that you'll need to obtain via feat if you want them. Psions don't have that restriction, but will lag a couple levels behind.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-06, 01:11 PM
Well, you can get an extra minute/day of being Incorporeal via Shape Soulmeld+Open Chakra.


Or you could just get Etherealness at will via the same trick.


Honestly, 9th level powers aren't as strong as 9th level spells. There's a few bombs, but the best 9th level powers are augmented low level ones. At least, IMO.

Typicaly don't play with incarnum but thank you.

ya i kinda agree about the whole 9th level spells.

Optimystik
2010-04-06, 01:32 PM
Correct. You're going to eat the PP loss regardless. The difference between ardent and Psion is basically a few higher level powers, vs a much wider selection of powers.

Ardents are limited by Mantles. With 5 levels of Ardent, you'll have 4 mantles to choose from. With 10 levels of ardent, you'll get 5 mantles.

It's enough to cover a wide range of themes, but there are several powers that you'll need to obtain via feat if you want them. Psions don't have that restriction, but will lag a couple levels behind.

Well, this is where those Real Life Diplomacy skill ranks come in handy. With Pimp My Mantle (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) you can get all the powers you need in just 3 mantles, never mind 5. After all, you'll only be able to learn 17 of them over your career, and each mantle should hold 10. (And will, if you convince your DM to allow the ACF.)

If this comes into play, you have 30 powers to choose from among your 3 mantles; You won't even need the other two except for their granted powers if you choose the contents right, and justify them via RP.