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View Full Version : Using the 4E Monk as a template for 3.5



Theodoxus
2010-04-06, 02:18 PM
I've been enjoying how the 4E Monk has been implemented - how Flurry is part of the basic attack concept that adds an additional effect.

Monk has been my pet class since AD&D, and while not perfect, it has definitely been improved upon, removing many of the issues created with the 3.x variant.

I'm curious if there'd be any interest in refitting the class using the concepts from 4E down into 3.5. Basically, keeping the class mechanics that make sense and altering those that everyone knows isn't synergistic (Flurry of Blows as it currently stands in 3.5 being incompatible with the movement concepts of the class, for instance).

I'm not sure how fancy it should get - breaking it down like in 4E would be a nuance not seen in 3.5 without ACFs... but given the skirmisher role the Monk seems to want in 3.5, I'd emphasize the Hunter aspect of the Centering Breath.

I haven't seen much talk about bringing concepts from 4E down to 3.x - ideas like push and slide which make combat more exciting - they wouldn't take too much work to incorporate... but would it be overpowering?

I like and understand the 3.x mechanics of character generation and combat (ie number crunching) better than 4E, but 4E does allow for less rule interpretation in regards to the flow of combat based on, what I feel is, more solid grounding (ie rules of combat).

It seems to me, taking a few powers and abilities from the 4E Monk and slapping them onto the bones (ie BAB, Saves, AC bonus, etc) of the 3.5 Monk would make a better class than either of them separate.

Thoughts?

hamishspence
2010-04-06, 03:01 PM
Interesting idea. Very late in 3.5, just before 4E came out, Dragon Magazine (online) did epic destinies for 3.5.

Doing other 4E ideas in 3.5 might be interesting.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-06, 03:10 PM
It would definately make it better.

hamishspence
2010-04-06, 03:15 PM
The monk, or 3.5? :smallamused:

hmm- what 4E mechanics might be worth including in a 3.5 game?

SilveryCord
2010-04-06, 03:34 PM
All of them.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-06, 03:38 PM
The monk, or 3.5? :smallamused:

hmm- what 4E mechanics might be worth including in a 3.5 game?

The Bloodied mechanic is good. It lets certain abilities/class features activate for further effect. Plus, lets you know this creature is hurt badly.

It won't hurt a 3.5 game directly. What abilties/class features you transfer might or might not.

Ebberon already incorporated action points so those are from 3.5.

hamishspence
2010-04-06, 03:43 PM
the 4E action point system is a little different from the Eberron one though- in Eberron you get so many action points per level, whereas in 4E it's per extended rest- so you always start off with 1 action point each day.

Maybe the system of allowing a standard action or move action to be swapped for a minor action? And the process of "sustaining" spells by spending minor actions? Might need to handle it carefully to ensure it doesn't get broken.

The Glyphstone
2010-04-06, 03:44 PM
There's a few monsters in some of the later Manuals that wandered in the vague direction of Bloodied...I'm thinking of a low-CR magma golem that, upon reaching 50% health, had its outer shell of hardened lava shatter, reducing its natural armor but giving it a fire-elemental-like burn effect.

it's something I'd like to see more frequently.

ghost_warlock
2010-04-06, 04:25 PM
I'd love to port 4e's Warlock's Curse (along with pact boons) down to 3.5; it's one of the aspects of the class I most enjoy.

cupkeyk
2010-04-06, 07:28 PM
Actually the bloodied monsters turning nastier has been around since AD&D. Its called the matroska (sp? russian for mother doll, them things that you pop open and there's a smaller doll inside) mechanic. But it wasn't in the monster manuals, it was a concept where if you BBEG dies, it bursts out into a Bigger Badder Evil Guy.

SSGoW
2010-04-06, 07:56 PM
Movement system (no AoO for moving into a space), Power ranges (by squares and such), skill system is condensed, at-wills, multiclassing (modified a bit though), and hmmm some other things....

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-06, 08:05 PM
I'd love to port 4e's Warlock's Curse (along with pact boons) down to 3.5; it's one of the aspects of the class I most enjoy.

The curse is cool, but I'd rather see it on an enhanced hexblade. The warlock's invocation system is very solid, and only needs slight tinkering to be tier 3. (extra blast shapes, essences, and utility invocations)

Gralamin
2010-04-06, 08:52 PM
Actually the bloodied monsters turning nastier has been around since AD&D. Its called the matroska (sp? russian for mother doll, them things that you pop open and there's a smaller doll inside) mechanic. But it wasn't in the monster manuals, it was a concept where if you BBEG dies, it bursts out into a Bigger Badder Evil Guy.

Its also called "Threshold", and that was the term used specifically in development of Monster Manual V.