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TheYoungKing
2010-04-06, 08:10 PM
Now, I'm one of those 3.5 fogies that could never see myself converting to 4e.....

But then, all of a sudden.....

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/dark_sun_cg_b1y.jpg

.......... I need to play me some 4e.

And I was skeptical, a bit. Because, I mean, WoTC can't start off with that much awesome and not mess it up. But I've been reading Rich Baker's blog and have found nothing I disagree.

So, do you think Dark Sun would be worth it to convert? Or have they completely messed up the setting in some way I haven't yet seen?

Silly Wizard
2010-04-06, 08:14 PM
Dark Sun is awesome, there isn't any reason you shouldn't play this! Plus, it's not really converting- contrary to popular belief, you can play both editions.

TheYoungKing
2010-04-06, 08:20 PM
Assuming you only have the time for one RPG in your life, no, no you can't. And with the investment I would need to get into 4e.... no, no I can't.

Kaun
2010-04-06, 08:38 PM
Assuming you only have the time for one RPG in your life, no, no you can't. And with the investment I would need to get into 4e.... no, no I can't.

So once you swap there is no going back!?!

Why wasn't i told!?!

WHY WASN'T I TOLD!???!!

Gralamin
2010-04-06, 08:41 PM
Assuming you only have the time for one RPG in your life, no, no you can't. And with the investment I would need to get into 4e.... no, no I can't.

Spend like 11 bucks to get a ddi subscription for one month. That will give you a substantial amount of 4e material through the character builder. Buy a players handbook. You should be set.

And we have yet to see the final product, so can't say, but I'm waiting eagerly for it.

The Glyphstone
2010-04-06, 08:52 PM
I made my joke about dying of dehydration (save ends) in the last 4E Dark Sun thread a while back, but if it's getting good endorsements from people involved in its development/reading said developers, my feelings are wavering towards 'cautiously optimistic'.

KillianHawkeye
2010-04-06, 09:18 PM
I'm not really familiar with past incarnations of this setting (although I'd heard of it before), but this looks like it'll be pretty awesome and I'll finally have a reason to start running a 4E game for my group.

kieza
2010-04-06, 10:52 PM
One thing that I've heard is that part of the Player book contains modified rules for making the game grittier. I don't know what that entails, but I suspect it's something like making healing surges harder to recover, allowing fewer healing surges, and possibly making coup de grace and massive damage more likely to kill a character.

There will also probably be stuff for the DM like Endurance DCs for surviving without food or water, weird diseases (sunstroke? dehydration?), and suggestions for how to make classes and races fit into the setting.

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-06, 10:56 PM
One thing that I've heard is that part of the Player book contains modified rules for making the game grittier. I don't know what that entails, but I suspect it's something like making healing surges harder to recover, allowing fewer healing surges, and possibly making coup de grace and massive damage more likely to kill a character.

There will also probably be stuff for the DM like Endurance DCs for surviving without food or water, weird diseases (sunstroke? dehydration?), and suggestions for how to make classes and races fit into the setting.

To be fair, coup-de-grace is pretty nasty already in theory, especially for some classes. A level 1 assassin can take out a level 8 fighter quite easily, or up to a level 15+ wizardy-psion type, in both cases of course providing they can hit.

I am looking forward to seeing what tweaks they might include, though.

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 11:07 PM
It'll be interesting to see how different/similar the tweaks are to all the stuff people have already homebrewed to make 4e more gritty. A lot of what I've seen online involves increasing the lethality of surprise rounds, mechanics for lasting injuries, making healing surges less useful, etc.

BobVosh
2010-04-06, 11:35 PM
I was popping in to say a Dark Sun without character trees isn't Dark Sun. However the posts above give me hope for a 4ed DS. Any got word on how they are going to make it possible to die in 4ed?

Too bad we gave up fourth ed like a bad habit. Humorously, we still have more copies of 4ed PHB then 3.5, or PF.

*edit* Also have Thri-kreens and half-giants been stated? TKs were always one of my favorite races. Muls are pretty cool too.

gdiddy
2010-04-06, 11:40 PM
If I had money to spend on battle maps and minis, I'd consider it.

Kaun
2010-04-06, 11:43 PM
Yeah 4e could do with being more deadly.

Might end up xfering the alterations back into Vanilla.

Gralamin
2010-04-06, 11:56 PM
One thing that I've heard is that part of the Player book contains modified rules for making the game grittier. I don't know what that entails, but I suspect it's something like making healing surges harder to recover, allowing fewer healing surges, and possibly making coup de grace and massive damage more likely to kill a character.

There will also probably be stuff for the DM like Endurance DCs for surviving without food or water, weird diseases (sunstroke? dehydration?), and suggestions for how to make classes and races fit into the setting.

That will actually all be part of the setting book - There is no players book, but there is a monster bestiary specifically for Dark Sun (which is appropriate)

Grynning
2010-04-07, 12:16 AM
*edit* Also have Thri-kreens and half-giants been stated? TKs were always one of my favorite races. Muls are pretty cool too.

Half-giants = Goliaths from PHB2, re-fluffed. Muls are in and appear to get Str/Con bonuses. Haven't heard anything about Thri-Keen.

Relevant Article: http://critical-hits.com/2010/01/29/dd-xp-2010-dark-sun-characters/

They mention rules for weapon breakage in there, which I like a lot.



Weapon breakage rules are as follows: if you roll a 1 on an attack with a weapon, you can reroll it. If you’re using a non-metal weapon, it automatically breaks after the attack if you do so. If you’re using a metal weapon, it breaks on a roll of 1-5.

Kurald Galain
2010-04-07, 02:49 AM
One thing that I've heard is that part of the Player book contains modified rules for making the game grittier.
I've heard the opposite. One of the DS developers stated that 4E was an excellent system for DS because 4E is already so gritty and deadly and points-of-lighty.

For instance? In 2E DS, your weapons can break. In 4E, they can't, so they made the rules grittier as follows: if you roll a 1 on a weapon attack, you can choose to take that as an automatic miss (as normal). If you don't, you get a free reroll, with a ~25% chance that your weapon breaks (depending on quality). So that means your weapon will never break if you don't want it to, and if you do accept that it might, you get free rerolls out of the bargain. That's... not exactly gritty.

So no, I do not expect any modifications to the rules that you can go without food for three to ten weeks, and that a bag of infinite food is a cheap magical item. Instead, I'd expect some endurance-based skill challenges.

The Thri-Kreen racial ability is a minor action triple attack, a bit like a melee dragon breath, and they get to draw and stow items as a free action; otherwise their extra arms don't do anything. Half-Giants are the same as Goliaths. Defilers get free rerolls on arcane attack and damage rolls, but doing so damages all their allies; this is not a new class but an extra feature for arcane classes. And the sorcerer king is a new pact option for Warlocks. And finally, characters get an extra encounter power based on which "theme" they join, like Veiled Alliance or Gladiator.

BobVosh
2010-04-07, 04:13 AM
I've heard the opposite. One of the DS developers stated that 4E was an excellent system for DS because 4E is already so gritty and deadly and points-of-lighty.
What? This doesn't make sense. On a side note, what is "points-of-lighty"?


For instance? In 2E DS, your weapons can break. In 4E, they can't, so they made the rules grittier as follows: if you roll a 1 on a weapon attack, you can choose to take that as an automatic miss (as normal). If you don't, you get a free reroll, with a ~25% chance that your weapon breaks (depending on quality). So that means your weapon will never break if you don't want it to, and if you do accept that it might, you get free rerolls out of the bargain. That's... not exactly gritty.
Huh. I thought the guy mistyped when he said you could chose to reroll. I figured it was it broke, unless you roll 1-5 for metal. Silly.


So no, I do not expect any modifications to the rules that you can go without food for three to ten weeks, and that a bag of infinite food is a cheap magical item. Instead, I'd expect some endurance-based skill challenges.
You can? Odd.


The Thri-Kreen racial ability is a minor action triple attack, a bit like a melee dragon breath, and they get to draw and stow items as a free action; otherwise their extra arms don't do anything. Half-Giants are the same as Goliaths. Defilers get free rerolls on arcane attack and damage rolls, but doing so damages all their allies; this is not a new class but an extra feature for arcane classes. And the sorcerer king is a new pact option for Warlocks. And finally, characters get an extra encounter power based on which "theme" they join, like Veiled Alliance or Gladiator.
Hmm. Seems about right for a TK. I disapprove of that for a HG. Fits reasonably well for defilers, but it only does it to allies? Weird. So sorcerer-king is available at level 1? I would have guessed it would be an epic destiny...really weird. Encounter power is fine, I guess.

Kurald Galain
2010-04-07, 04:35 AM
On a side note, what is "points-of-lighty"?
The notion that most of the campaign world is dark and evil and dangerous ruins created by half a dozen old empires, and that there's small points of safety in the form of small towns and villages. It's 4E's default campaign setting. I think the major changes to the Forgotten Realms were partially made to bring it closer to the points of light idea.


You can? Odd.
Default 4E rules. Without any penalties and before you have to make any kind of check, any character can go without air for three minutes, water for three days, food for three weeks. After that you start making checks and might lose healing surges, so you can likely survive for twice that period.



Hmm. Seems about right for a TK. I disapprove of that for a HG.
I'd say the opposite: I think a goliath would be a good fit for a half-giant, but would have liked seeing a different TK ability.


So sorcerer-king is available at level 1? I would have guessed it would be an epic destiny...really weird.
Ah, you don't become a sorcerer-king; rather, as a warlock, you draw your power not from a pact with demons, fey, or chtulhu (as is the default), but from a pact with the sorcerer-king. I'm not sure if that fits; but then, Dark Sun didn't have warlocks before.

hamlet
2010-04-07, 07:14 AM
Kurald: Your words hurt me deep in my soul . . .:smallfrown:

I've always been of the opinion that 4e (based on what I know about it and only having played it twice) that it is not a system fit for Dark Sun. That's not a criticism of the system, just a statement that, without MAJOR overhauls of concept and mood, it just doesn't fit into a world where basic survival is frequently the subject of game sessions let alone fighting monsters. Third edition can work, though not terribly well.

For the OP, why would you switch just to play DS when you can get a cheap copy of the setting for 2nd edition from e-bay and get the 3rd edition rules for free online? If third edition is your game, then keep on playing it man.

Otogi
2010-04-07, 08:28 AM
Now, I'm one of those 3.5 fogies that could never see myself converting to 4e.....

But then, all of a sudden.....

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/dark_sun_cg_b1y.jpg

.......... I need to play me some 4e.

And I was skeptical, a bit. Because, I mean, WoTC can't start off with that much awesome and not mess it up. But I've been reading Rich Baker's blog and have found nothing I disagree.

So, do you think Dark Sun would be worth it to convert? Or have they completely messed up the setting in some way I haven't yet seen?

I think you should do it just for the system, but if your not convinced, just remember that there's no official 3.5 Dark Sun setting and that the campaign will have it's own bestiary, something no other 4e campaign has at the moment (meaning that they are going to treat this one well).

hamlet
2010-04-07, 08:35 AM
I think you should do it just for the system, but if your not convinced, just remember that there's no official 3.5 Dark Sun setting and that the campaign will have it's own bestiary, something no other 4e campaign has at the moment (meaning that they are going to treat this one well).

Not 100% true. While WOTC didn't release official Dark Sun material, there were, IIRC, two Dragon magazines with Dark Sun stuff in them. I think I might actually have them laying about . . .

And for what it's worth, I hear the free fanmade DS stuff online is excellent.

So, yeah, nothing official, but it's not a barren dessert out there.

hamishspence
2010-04-07, 08:40 AM
the Campaign Classics issue (316?) with stuff from Ravenloft, Birthright, Mystara, etc- had some Dark Sun stuff.

Issue 319 also had some- it was basically a Dark Sun-centric issue.
I didn't manage to get it though.

One of the later issues (also with stuff from various campaign settings) had rules for Dragon Kings- an epic PRC that requires arcane casting and psionic manifesting, grants bonuses to the Epic Spellcasting feat (such as the ability to drain life from large numbers of living beings to power the spell) and turns the being into a dragon.

Theodoric
2010-04-07, 08:58 AM
What's in it? No new classes, but what are the new races?
Forgotten Realms had plenty of 'generic' stuff to appeal to non-FR players (Swordmage and Genasi), Eberron a bit less (but still the Warforged). Though I'd think Dark Sun will be somewhat less 'accessible'.

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-07, 09:04 AM
Product page is here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/253870000). No new classes, sure. However, it does have new class builds and themes and so on, which to be honest, is likely to ammount to the same thing.

And don't let Kurald put you off. He has this whole Love-Hate thing going with the edition. It's kind of fascinating to watch some days. :smallwink:

Frankly, I don't do setting specific handbooks, because I'm so unlikely to ever run any.

For this, I shall be making an exception. That's really all I've got to say about it. :smallsmile:

Erom
2010-04-07, 09:07 AM
Played in the dark sun preview game at Pax East. The weapon breaking is easily avoided (don't take the re-roll!) but my friends like to live "on the edge", and we ended up breaking most of our weapons and nearly eating dirt because of it. We ran out of time, but were clearly doomed in the next encounter anyway.

The preview game was focused on action within Tyre(?) and the gladiatorial combat, so I didn't get to see what they had done with the wilderness survival/ endurance parts of it. I actually enjoyed the theme encounter powers. They were useful and flavorful, and helped compensate for the fact that decent items were much rarer. I think we had one weapon for the whole party that wasn't a "-1" weapon, and I think our armor was pretty subpar as well.

So, in summary: Slight power boost to characters, slight nerf to items, plus they seemed to balance the encounters harder. Not sure if that's going to be a dark sun trend or if they were gunning for us since it was a convention game.

Hzurr
2010-04-07, 09:17 AM
Hmm...are you sure Sorcerer King is only a warlock pact? I seem to remember hearing Keith Baker say that it was also an epic destiny.

A few other notes:

- Dark Sun has no Divine Classes. This means that healing will be harder to come by, since you have no more uber-heal clerics or defenders who have secondary heal abilities like the Paladin.

- In Regard as "Points of Light" and dark/gritty, the default PHB/DMG setting assumes that the world is a hostile place, and going out in the wilderness is dangerous. Occationally, you'll find a town or city where there is relative safety; a "point of light" in the darkness that is the big scary world.

- No more "Christmas Tree Effect." Magic items, from my understanding, are very rare and tough to get. Actually, just getting a weapon made of metal is supposed to be a big deal. So this means no more "level 2 item that keeps me from ever starving" or "level 5 staff that lets me heal everyone around me." This alone makes things much more difficult.

Kurald Galain
2010-04-07, 09:38 AM
Hmm...are you sure Sorcerer King is only a warlock pact?
No, I am merely sure that it is a warlock pact, not what else it may also be. I was responding to BobVosh query, can you become a sorcerer king at level one? The obvious answer to that is no :smalltongue:


- Dark Sun has no Divine Classes. This means that healing will be harder to come by,
2E Dark Sun doesn't. Do we know the same about 4E Dark Sun? Yes, it would be a weird change, but then, 4E Forgotten Realms suddenly has Warforged and Dragonboobs walking around, too. Regardless, it will just mean people have to resort to arcane or martial healers.



- No more "Christmas Tree Effect." Magic items, from my understanding, are very rare and tough to get.
That would actually help, assuming it uses the DMG2 "lack of items" variant to keep the combat math on par.



And don't let Kurald put you off. He has this whole Love-Hate thing going with the edition. It's kind of fascinating to watch some days. :smallwink:
An apt description :smallbiggrin:

To add to my earlier statement, no, I do not believe that Dark Sun will be much grittier or deadlier than "regular" 4E - however I also believe that that's really not what players want, either! Most players do not want their characters to have their arm chopped off, to starve to near-death on a regular basis, or to have their weapon break frequently in combat. And for those that do, well, it's not like starvation is hard to houserule in.

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-07, 09:42 AM
I'd just like to add that once, just once, I would enjoy losing a limb during a campaign. It'd be cool. Regularly? that could get a bit traumatic.

But just the one little maiming between friends? I could be down with that. :smallbiggrin:

Kurald Galain
2010-04-07, 09:53 AM
I'd just like to add that once, just once, I would enjoy losing a limb during a campaign. It'd be cool. Regularly? that could get a bit traumatic.

But just the one little maiming between friends? I could be down with that. :smallbiggrin:

'Tis But A Flesh Wound (fighter daily, level 9)
Standard action.
Attack: Str vs Fort
Hit: 3[W]+Str damage, and you chop off the target's leg (save ends).

:smalltongue:

TheYoungKing
2010-04-07, 10:10 AM
First D&D game ever- friend's dads 2e (I think, heavily homebrewed looking back) group. Played for a couple of hours. Got eaten by Halflings.

If 4e Dark Sun can't do that..... then I might still buy the book and scavenge (although, sadly, 4e doesn't convert well)

hamlet
2010-04-07, 10:20 AM
First D&D game ever- friend's dads 2e (I think, heavily homebrewed looking back) group. Played for a couple of hours. Got eaten by Halflings.

If 4e Dark Sun can't do that..... then I might still buy the book and scavenge (although, sadly, 4e doesn't convert well)

I've always wanted to play a halfling in a Dark Sun campaign who collects "snacks" from his falled enemies after every battle.:smallbiggrin:

Otogi
2010-04-07, 10:37 AM
Not 100% true. While WOTC didn't release official Dark Sun material, there were, IIRC, two Dragon magazines with Dark Sun stuff in them. I think I might actually have them laying about . . .

And for what it's worth, I hear the free fanmade DS stuff online is excellent.

So, yeah, nothing official, but it's not a barren dessert out there.

That is positively, absolutely true; in fact, you should go check that out! However, the material and supplements for 4e seem to have very few complaints, so the new edition has a pretty track record. You could go either way, but I'd say at least do what Gralamin said and give it a try; if you like it, good for you, you had a nice time. If not, you at least have a nice souvenir from and a symbol that Dark Sun will still continue in the future.

Erom
2010-04-07, 11:24 AM
Oh yeah, I almost forgot - I don't know if Halflings are still cannibals, but they definitely are still evil. In the preview game one of the prominent enemies was a halfling psion.

Kurald Galain
2010-04-07, 11:33 AM
However, the material and supplements for 4e seem to have very few complaints, so the new edition has a pretty track record.
Huh? Did you miss the internet-wide flame war over which edition is superior? It's a classic Broken Base (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBase) if ever I saw one.

Optimystik
2010-04-07, 12:08 PM
Huh? Did you miss the internet-wide flame war over which edition is superior? It's a classic Broken Base (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBase) if ever I saw one.

By my understanding, the majority of complaints vs. 4e center on its move from simulationist to gamist balancing. The mechanics on their own merits don't seem to draw as much flack as those of previous editions.

Kurald Galain
2010-04-07, 12:46 PM
By my understanding, the majority of complaints vs. 4e center on its move from simulationist to gamist balancing. The mechanics on their own merits don't seem to draw as much flack as those of previous editions.
I'm afraid they do. I've seen lengthy threads with criticism on the rules for skill challenges; rituals; three dimensional combat; hybrids; and every class in the PHB3. I'm not saying that I agree with all of this criticism, but there's plenty of it, and certain rules are heavily controversial over the internet. That's probably a topic for a different thread, though, or check the WOTC boards for details.

Getting back to Dark Sun, I'd actually be surprised if there wasn't a new class in there (since FRPG got the swordmage, and EPG got the artificer). Also, it strikes me that certain races should just work differently; for instance, the PHB halfling doesn't seem to have appropriate abilities for Dark Sun.

Yora
2010-04-07, 12:48 PM
I wonder how they'll handle class restrictions.

I think in Dark Sun every arcane spellcaster is hunted down and killed on sight? And someone else mentioned that there are no divine spellcasters.

And I just can't see WotC to release anything that does not follow "if it's in D&D, it's part of the setting.".

TheYoungKing
2010-04-07, 01:34 PM
Rich Baker mentioned that they are doing the elemental, non-divine clerics. And that defilers and preservers are still going to exist.

Theodoxus
2010-04-07, 01:47 PM
What about Templars? They were the 2E version of clerics - basically 'worshiped' the Sorcerer-Kings who's shenanigans had opened a vortex-connection to the outer planes. The SKs couldn't even detect the divine magic streaming into Athas, but their Templar followers could.

It was, imo, an elegant solution to having divine magic that wasn't elemental in nature that could be used by the 'bad guys'.

Warpwolf16
2010-04-07, 05:54 PM
I thought about actually doing this then said.."MORE BOOKS TO BUY FOR ONE CAMPAIGN!?" Im not much of a lover of 4th. I've downloaded a few of the pdf.'s for the s.X conversion and have them on a flash drive in my D&D book space.

I looked at the character previews and was like 'wow..shamans get a nice treatment.And Elemental clerics!?"

I plan oin sticking with the 3.Xed, the Psionic splat books and a few others add a loving flavor to our favor wasteland.

Jokes
2010-04-07, 06:13 PM
What about Templars? They were the 2E version of clerics - basically 'worshiped' the Sorcerer-Kings who's shenanigans had opened a vortex-connection to the outer planes. The SKs couldn't even detect the divine magic streaming into Athas, but their Templar followers could.

It was, imo, an elegant solution to having divine magic that wasn't elemental in nature that could be used by the 'bad guys'.

They are introducing a new aspect called 'themes,' of which Templars and I think defilers belong. Instead of being a totally new class, you pick a theme and get a bonus level 1 encounter power and the chance to switch out your higher level encounter powers with theme ones. It's kinda like multiclassing without the feat investment.

You can check out the preview characters used at cons here. (http://critical-hits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/IMG_0013.pdf)

BobVosh
2010-04-07, 06:34 PM
I think in Dark Sun every arcane spellcaster is hunted down and killed on sight? And someone else mentioned that there are no divine spellcasters.
There are no gods. The entire plane can not be reached. The closest to clerics are still clerics, they just worship one of the elements.

Close. Defilers were hunted down on sight, and killed. As they were destroying the plant. Perservers were highly regulated by cities, but they usually kept a few around. Perservers are the ones that cast with penalties but didn't destroy Athas any more. Basically the concept on them was it takes a mage to fight a mage.



'Tis But A Flesh Wound (fighter daily, level 9)
Standard action.
Attack: Str vs Fort
Hit: 3[W]+Str damage, and you chop off the target's leg (save ends).

:smalltongue:

Is it bad I think this power is amazing?

HenryHankovitch
2010-04-07, 06:38 PM
Default 4E rules. Without any penalties and before you have to make any kind of check, any character can go without air for three minutes, water for three days, food for three weeks. After that you start making checks and might lose healing surges, so you can likely survive for twice that period.
The book specifically says that those times are only for someone not doing anything strenuous. Like, you know, adventuring. If the character is doing nothing other than sitting in a jail cell, those times aren't too unrealistic even for real folk, much less heroic characters.

Kaun
2010-04-07, 09:09 PM
I think cutting the magic items will make the game more deadly in a lot of respects, mainly because it will cut damage output so the fights will last longer.

I think they really need to half the # of healing surges a character has and DMs will really need to push the local danger aspect.

The problem is tho to many random combat encounter makes for a bloody slow game in 4e.

Otogi
2010-04-07, 10:02 PM
Huh? Did you miss the internet-wide flame war over which edition is superior? It's a classic Broken Base (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBase) if ever I saw one.

Actually, I meant more in the edition than between two. But then, that could between any edition. You could roll a 1d4 twice and have the same edition aggression between whatever you roll (even if you roll the same number). In 4e, however, the supplements seem to be well-liked and have very few complaints withing edition.

Choco
2010-04-08, 08:25 AM
I have high hopes for 4e Dark Sun. I admit that in 4e as written it is hard to die, but really all you have to do to fix that is boost the encounter level of all fights by +3 (normal encounters would now be +2 to +4 above character level, hard could get up to +7), keep the XP the same, and greatly cut back on magic items. There, you now have a deadly 4e game. Of course you will have to cut back on this in the later levels (cause even at normal encounter difficulty they assume you have magic items) but the point is that making 4e hard is possible.

Now, this being Dark Sun, not only would a normal encounter be +4, but it would happen after bout 15 endurance checks from travelling through the desert, getting your water stolen, running away from halflings, etc. So, you got an already almost-dead party fighting AT LEAST one +4 fight before they reach their next "safe spot", which will only be safe enough for them to get one extended rest (if they are lucky) before they gotta run again :smallamused:

Blackfang108
2010-04-08, 08:38 AM
First D&D game ever- friend's dads 2e (I think, heavily homebrewed looking back) group. Played for a couple of hours. Got eaten by Halflings.

If 4e Dark Sun can't do that..... then I might still buy the book and scavenge (although, sadly, 4e doesn't convert well)

I've already had that happen in a 4e horror one-shot.

...

...

(OK, they were goblins, not halflings, but still.)

tbarrie
2010-04-08, 09:15 AM
Getting back to Dark Sun, I'd actually be surprised if there wasn't a new class in there (since FRPG got the swordmage, and EPG got the artificer). Also, it strikes me that certain races should just work differently; for instance, the PHB halfling doesn't seem to have appropriate abilities for Dark Sun.

I originally assumed we'd see a fifth Psionic Class in the Dark Sun Players' Guide before Psionic Power ships in the fall, but Psionic Power and the Dark Sun Campaign Setting apparently ship the same day, so that seems less likely. And note that they're not doing a Campaign Guide and Players' Guide this year, but a "Campaign Setting" and "Creature Catalog"; shoving all the setting info into one book could easily not leave room for a whole new class. Moreover, if there were a new class, I'm pretty sure they would mention that in the preview blurb.