LA or no LA

[dresdor]

Looking to determine whether this race would have a level adjustment or not for 3.5 d&d

Tigra
Medium Sized (Tiger Humanoid)
+2 Dex
+2 Cha
-2 Con
Low-Light Vision
+2 to reflex saves (Due to feline tail)
+4 to Hide and Move Silently in forest terrain
+4 to Balance and Jump Checks
Favored Class: Druid

Also debating whether to add 2 1d4 claw attacks to the race, though this combined with everything else may push it over the 0/1LA border.

[Geiger Counter]

(Tiger Humanoid)

There's no point in creating a subtype for a single race, Maybe (humanoid, feline) would be better.

I'm just wondering how a creature that is covered in black and orange pinstripes would get a hide bonus against any creature that can see in colour.

"+2 to reflex saves (Due to feline tail)"

Yeah, that makes no sense, a +2 balance maybe.

Claws that replace the functionality of hands are incredibly weak (unless you play a monk) no way that would overpower a character. It it cannot be added on to the end of an unarmed full attack than it has no value.

If this is 4e, it's too weak, if it's 3.5 it's too strong.
If it's 3.5 get rid of 1 ability bonus. If it's 4e take away one ability penalty and give it some spacial ability.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Looking to determine whether this race would have a level adjustment or not for 3.5 d&d

Tigra
Medium Sized (Tiger Humanoid)
+2 Dex
+2 Cha
-2 Con
Low-Light Vision
+2 to reflex saves (Due to feline tail)
+4 to Hide and Move Silently in forest terrain
+4 to Balance and Jump Checks
Favored Class: Druid

Also debating whether to add 2 1d4 claw attacks to the race, though this combined with everything else may push it over the 0/1LA border.

Yes LA, due to the Charisma bonus. (That's just standard convention for mental ability scores.) This, of course, makes it a weak LA +1. You could probably make the claw/claw attack 1d3 and get rid of the Charisma bonus to make it LA +0.

If you want to keep the Charisma bonus, adding the natural claw/claw attack (1d6 is fine) and maybe a +1 natural armor bonus would make it LA +1.

[Magikeeper]

Although uneven stats are, as noted, conventionally +1 LA, I think this race without the claw attacks could be LA +0. Otherwise, take the advice in the post above me. Although replacing the suggested +1 NA with +10ft speed would be more worthwhile and fit the race better. Edit: I would not use 1d6s for the claw attacks. Although starting out with 1d4 claws that got bigger at higher (4+) levels would be fine.

Maybe +1 LA, 1d4/1d4 claw attacks, +10ft, scent, and run as a bonus feat? I could see players taking that race and feeling good about it (with LA buyoff at later levels).

Why is the favored class druid? Its racial abilities don't really help it be a druid at all.

Edit: Actually, you could just give them a penalty to another stat and call it a day. -2 str or -2 wis would work here. If you did that you could get away with a pair of 1d3 claw attacks at LA +0, I think.

[Geiger Counter]

I think this race without the claw attacks could be LA +0...If you did that you could get away with a pair of 1d3 claw attacks at LA +0, I think.

Um claw attacks aren't powerful at all, and would make absolutely no difference between LA+1 and LA+0. having what amounts to a permanent dagger in each hand is worth as much as +2 to any of the weaker skills. You can't even usually enchant claws unless you play a kensai or something. The only reason it has any worth is because you can't be unarmed.

[Temotei]

Why is the favored class druid? Its racial abilities don't really help it be a druid at all.

Favored class depends on the fluff more than the mechanics. Drow get casting classes for their favored class, but they stink at it as they're written.

[Magikeeper]

Um claw attacks aren't powerful at all, and would make absolutely no difference between LA+1 and LA+0. having what amounts to a permanent dagger in each hand is worth as much as +2 to any of the weaker skills. You can't even usually enchant claws unless you play a kensai or something. The only reason it has any worth is because you can't be unarmed.

Hmmm... I agree at levels 3+, but having two attacks at full BAB is actually pretty strong at very low levels. Also, why do you think that you can't add a claw to an unarmed full attack? Unarmed strikes are made with any part of the body. For example: Leg, hand, head, claw.

Although I guess 1d4s would be okay. You've convinced me that 1d3s would definately be okay. Giving two 1d6 claw attacks would not be okay for an LA + 0 race with the other abilities.

(By the way, I already agreed that claw attacks are not worth +1 LA. I wasn't sure, though, if a PC without +1 LA should have the claw attacks.)

----------------

On favored classes: Yet another reason to not actually use the favored class system. Basically, if a person playing this race in a game with the favored class system wants to multiclass, they just got screwed for flavor reasons. Surely there is a class that both fits their fluff and is something they are good canidates for?

[Geiger Counter]

Also, why do you think that you can't add a claw to an unarmed full attack? Unarmed strikes are made with any part of the body. For example: Leg, hand, head, claw.

:smallconfused: because it's in the core rules


Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual –5 penalty (or –2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon.


A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.


Hmmm... I agree at levels 3+, but having two attacks at full BAB is actually pretty strong at very low levels.

:smallconfused: Except that it's just as powerful as dual wielding daggers which costs 4 GP.


Giving two 1d6 claw attacks would not be okay for an LA + 0 race with the other abilities.

I'd say even 1d8 is possible for LA+0 as long as you can't add it to the end of a monk's full attack. Because those natural weapons quickly become sub optimal.

[Magikeeper]

Attacks that became 1d8 at not-low levels, yes. Some groups play games at level one. I prefer not to do so myself, but some people do. That is where the issue would be with two 1d8 attacks.. from the race alone. At slightly higher level it becomes much less of an issue, so a claw attack that got better ~LvL4 would be fine. Even 1d8, although that can be hard to justify from a flavor perspective (which may or may not be important to the OP).

To make my position clear:
An LA +0 race that gave two 1d8 claw attacks at level one plus other useful traits is likely overpowered for the first couple of levels. Some people play at those levels. Therefore, either have the claws scale or give the race more powers and raise the LA. The former is probably the better idea if you want awesome claws.

And duel wielding is NOT the same as having two natural attacks at full BAB. The latter is much better at low levels. The attack bonus is higher and you don't have to spend a feat.

Also, I don't see how anything you quoted prevents using natural attacks in addition to unarmed strikes. I haven't looked it up, so maybe something else does, but what you quoted only notes that the single extra claw attack is going to have a -5 penalty.