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DarknessLord
2010-04-07, 12:30 AM
About a year ago, we had someone come to our forums with the idea for a Pen and Paper Mario game based on the awesome Paper Mario series.
He then vary quickly lost interest and took the rules down from the deviantart page where he was hosting them.
The thread can be troublesome to fully understand since the rules in question have been taken down, and a good chuck of the discussion is about bob-ombs, but I think there are at least a few salvageable ideas in there, it can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109532). (remember not to post in the old, thread, but feel free to bring up anything mentioned there that you feel needs revising here in this one.)

As a man who loves the Mario RPGs, and would vary much like to roleplay a Boo, a Goomba, a Bob-omb, and/or any number of Mario races having adventures in the Mushroom Kingdom and it's ever changing neighboring territories, I propose, that we, the playground, actually make this project in a fun pen-and-paper style roleplaying game that can be played here in play-by-post or in person.

Now, my basic ideas I have going right now (which are still open to change if people like something else better) is pretty much based on the Paper Mario games. System is simply attack power minus defense is equal to damage (minimum 0 obviously), and you roll dice for the action command/timed hit part of it, but no actual roll to hit (unless someone uses some sort of power that creates a chance to miss).
You can play as any of the classic Mario races, in which I still like AgentPaper's idea on the subject from the first thread, which basically boils down to “Keep levels linear, and level adjustment can be used effectively to maintain balance” as well as building off of the idea of basic race can become a more advanced race as a means of advancing in power (IE, you can start out a Goomba and become a Paragoomba, by getting wings)
Also, my priority is Fun>Keeping that Mario Flavor>Balance, not that I don't think balance is important (in fact a lack of it can get in the way of fun), and I quite honestly believe that if we try hard enough we won't have to sacrifice any of those three.

I look forward to hearing the playground's thoughts on this, as well as playing this game with you in the future.

Temotei
2010-04-07, 12:34 AM
Yes. This would be awesome. I love those games. :smallcool:

Community is spelled with two "m"s, by the way. Capitalize "project" in the title as well. It'll look more professional, attracting more to the thread.

DarknessLord
2010-04-07, 01:00 AM
Yes. This would be awesome. I love those games. :smallcool:

Community is spelled with two "m"s, by the way. Capitalize "project" in the title as well. It'll look more professional, attracting more to the thread.

It's what I get for starting this thread at 10:30 at night, of course since 10:30 also shuts out the nay-saying voices in my head to actually get the thread started, so I guess it works out.:smallwink:

Both my GM senses and my player senses are tingling with excitement at this prospect though, from the plots like "King Bowser needs something out of his basement, he may not have cleaned it out in years but how bad could it be?" and Characters like a Bob-omb school teacher, who has a tendency to rattle on about exploding etiquette (and gets mighty hypocritical when she finds out you weren't listening).
Not that I mind or think this game should exclude the serious stuff, but I would like to capture the lighthearted fun that the games have and is part of their charm.

Forever Curious
2010-04-07, 01:28 AM
Oooh, this is highly relevant to my interest. Seeing how it's almost 3 am here, though, I'll hold off on actual advice for the time being. Haunt mode: activate!

Seguile Daengz
2010-04-07, 04:12 PM
A Paper Mario RPG?! Why the hell do I find awesome stuff like this so late?

Still! With the original side being down and all, I'll just throw some ideas out there! I didn't read all of the old thread, so bear with me- let's see what I can think of of the top of my head.

1. There are no classes. Instead, the race is a class. Advancing means gaining new abilities, and all races can choose from one big pool of abilities, with certain limits, of course. For example, getting wings is limited to Koopas and Goombas; not all characters can get Spikes; not all can get defense-nullifying attacks. Of course, these abilities are tied to a minimum level; you could translate the levels from the original Paper Mario that your comrades possessed to the general threshold they should have in this game.

2. Only Attack, Block and Item (yes, it's an actual ability) are abilities everyone possesses. There's also special badges that grant additional abilities.

3. There are six scores: Attack (POW), Defense (DEF), HP, FP, Speed, and Stache. In battle, the first four should be obvious. Speed determines the squares you can move and the order of the turns. Stache determines the general bonus to out-of-combat situations, as well as the difficulty of many special abilities.

4. Generally, it works like this: there is no AC; when somebody attacks, the target makes a roll of his own, generally to evade (but there are abilities to learn to counter as well, interrupting the other's attack.) Rolls are made, as usual, with a d20. 11-20 means it's a critical, which alters the effect of the attack somewhat. Bonus to attacks or to evasion are always either due to abilities, due to circumstances, due to items or due to badges- nothing else!
(Note that a bonus usually does nothing to determine the outcome of the critical hit chance; it only improves the result in comparison with that of the enemy.)

5. Everyone starts with a basic Slam attack, which does nothing when critical. For stuff like hammer or jump, the corresponding abilities have to be learned. If people try to do stuff they haven't learnt yet, but which is plausible, the results change: 1-10 means failure (which normally is right out), 11-20 means normal success, critical is not possible.

6. There is an array of "basic" abilities that can be used even when they don't have the ability. This means they suffer the result change described above. All abilities of a higher "tier" cannot be attempted by those not possessing them.

7. Upon gaining a level, everyone can distribute 5 points and gains two abilities. 10 points equal one point of speed, power, defense and skill, so "partial" points have to be spent. Everyone starts with 40 points, which can be freely distributed, and five abilities.

8. Basic attack types: slam (does nothing), jump (double damage, dealt separately), hammer (double damage), beam (nothing, but cannot be countered). There's certainly more...

9. Out-of-combat situations are dealt with in a similar way: you roll, enemy or obstacle rolls. Every typ of skill challenge is keyed to a certain ability that determines your bonus, as well as circumstances defined by the skills. There's also a critical success chance.
Jump: Speed; critical: +3 squares or something;
Break: Power; critical: break stronger blocks;
Socialize (or something): Stache; critical: NPC favourable towards character;
Balance: um, FP? Reword it, than it's fine... Critical: complete entire balance section without need for re-check.

Of course, skill challenges get a bonus based on their difficulty, and NPCs have special "counter skills" that only exist to provide numbers once PCs encounter them. The PCs could have them too, I guess- like Sense Motive versus Bluff, for example.

10: Battle: Everybody rolls their speed checks, and place in order. Everyone has one move and one action (it's not a move action, so it's only for crossing distance of any kind). The action can be another move as well.

11: For added fun, every three levels, you can pick a "quirk"! A quirk will make your character more memorable: adding a monocle, making your hat a trademark, gaining a fairly extravagant habit, and so on. A quirk can be a requirement for certain abilities, functioning as the border for "tiers". Also, some races come with quirks pre-equipped. A quirk does nothing beyond that, though, to keep things simple... or maybe it just gives skill bonus?

Man, there's so much you can just copy from the Paper Mario series. I'm kinda worried this might be too little and too simple, though. Up till now, we've got six scores, an undetermined amount of skills, and (5 + 2 per level) abilities. The key is that you HAVE to buy additional abilities to get anything; above that, there's only items, circumstances (from positioning or the enemy's situation, for example) and badges. That way, you have an even more colorful LEGO-like build of characters.

Of course, now you'd have to fill in some abilities, and describe some circumstances. What do you think so far? :smallsmile:

Forever Curious
2010-04-07, 04:19 PM
I suggest only allowing defensive rolls for the purpose of countering/blocking.

Example: I attack, you roll a d6. 1-3 = damage dealt normally, 4-5 = the damage is reduced by 1, 6 = counter attack(and negate damage...I think. Haven't played in a while. :smallredface:)

Actually, attack rolls can be done the same way for Action Commands.

Example: I attack and roll a d6. 1-3 = missed command, 4-6 = hit command.

I think this will maintain the simplicity of the game while keeping it enjoyable.

UserShadow7989
2010-04-07, 04:58 PM
I love Paper Mario. I've played all three (if you count Super Paper Mario) inside and out. I agree that progression should depend on race, though that may limit creativity at character creation. Perhaps you can learn additional skills every level, from a shared pool? We could just let Badges fill in the customization gap if that's too complicated or awkward for what we want to do.

Will there be an optional 'audience' system like the one in The Thousand Year Door? What about special attacks like the ones provided by finding Star Spirits in the first and Crystal Stars in the second?

As an important decision that needs to be made at the beginning, should we just directly take the combat rules from the games? POW - DEF = Damage? No dodging/misses except under certain conditions? No movement, just who's in front of who? It would certainly keep things clean, simple, and flavored like Paper Mario.

Forever Curious
2010-04-07, 05:01 PM
I love Paper Mario. I've played all three (if you count Super Paper Mario) inside and out. I agree that progression should depend on race, though that may limit creativity at character creation. Perhaps you can learn additional skills every level, from a shared pool? We could just let Badges fill in the customization gap if that's too complicated or awkward for what we want to do.

Will there be an optional 'audience' system like the one in The Thousand Year Door? What about special attacks like the ones provided by finding Star Spirits in the first and Crystal Stars in the second?

As an important decision that needs to be made at the beginning, should we just directly take the combat rules from the games? POW - DEF = Damage? No dodging/misses except under certain conditions? No movement, just who's in front of who? It would certainly keep things clean, simple, and flavored like Paper Mario.

I second this.

DarknessLord
2010-04-07, 06:48 PM
My opinions on action command dice, unless we need the versatility the d20 gives us, we could use the faithful d6 with something like

1=Bad
2=Normal
3=Nice!
4=Good!
5=Great!
6=Excellent!
Where some attacks that have low bonus effects need a Nice! or better and have normal effects on normal or bad, there can also be Attacks that need Excellent! to get the bonus, or even attacks that miss on bad (which would be the exception not the rule).

Also, while I support defending and countering, I dislike the idea of countering on a high defense roll, I would prefer if we went with the same thing that TTYD door did, you choose to either attempt to defend or to attempt to counter, making defending easy to do, while countering takes a better roll.

As for advancement, I most definitely agree that race should be a huge factor in it, and I am sort of seeing adding in to the races that can advance and option to advance their race (like going from a Goomba to a Paragoomba) as an option for their level-up bonus(es), balenced by the fact that they don't get any more of a bonus then the other races do. (So while you learned to fly, you buddies actually advanced their HP/FP/BP or whatever stats we end up going with.)

Not sure on how audience/star powers would work, they were "cool bonus plot powers", which would be awesome to include, but it seems like we'd need it to be done so the plot powers could be relevant to whatever adventure our heroes are on, which could prove troublesome.

UserShadow7989
2010-04-07, 09:09 PM
My opinions on action command dice, unless we need the versatility the d20 gives us, we could use the faithful d6 with something like

1=Bad
2=Normal
3=Nice!
4=Good!
5=Great!
6=Excellent!
Where some attacks that have low bonus effects need a Nice! or better and have normal effects on normal or bad, there can also be Attacks that need Excellent! to get the bonus, or even attacks that miss on bad (which would be the exception not the rule).

Agreed. How should the roll affect damage? Do you add the roll directly to your POW? Or does each attack have set values for each roll (Bad is +0, Normal is +1, Nice!, Good! and Great+2, and Excellent +3, for example)?


Also, while I support defending and countering, I dislike the idea of countering on a high defense roll, I would prefer if we went with the same thing that TTYD door did, you choose to either attempt to defend or to attempt to counter, making defending easy to do, while countering takes a better roll.

Agreed. I suggest defending subtracts damage slightly less efficiently then attacking does damage (so no poisoning/burning the opponent then stalling endlessly or whatever) to make attacking slightly more attractive (being proactive is always more fun then reactive).


As for advancement, I most definitely agree that race should be a huge factor in it, and I am sort of seeing adding in to the races that can advance and option to advance their race (like going from a Goomba to a Paragoomba) as an option for their level-up bonus(es), balanced by the fact that they don't get any more of a bonus then the other races do. (So while you learned to fly, you buddies actually advanced their HP/FP/BP or whatever stats we end up going with.)

Agreed, yet again. Speaking of crunch, how are we handling character creation? I suggest a point buy system. You have 8 points, 1 point is either 5 HP, 5 FP, or 3 BP, and 2 points is 1 POW, 1 DEF, or a skill. This would be stacked on a Race's bonuses, and limited by the race's caps.


Not sure on how audience/star powers would work, they were "cool bonus plot powers", which would be awesome to include, but it seems like we'd need it to be done so the plot powers could be relevant to whatever adventure our heroes are on, which could prove troublesome.

Audience would probably work like this: The GM rolls on a table to see what shows up in the audience, 5 or so times at the start of a battle, then once every following turn. There is a maximum of 50 audience members at any given time.

At the start of each turn, the GM rolls (or uses a random number generator) to select a 'seat'. If the 'seat' isn't occupied by an audience member, nothing happens. If it is, the audience member performs a preset action (a toad tosses a PC a mushroom, a hammer bro. throws a hammer at someone that deals a small amount of damage, a shy guy runs on stage and causes mayhem, etc).

A character can appeal to make any actions performed by the audience at the start of the next turn more favorable for them (toad gives a super mushroom instead of a normal one, the hammer bro targets an enemy with it's throw, etc).

As for the star powers, we can do the crunch for powerful if generic abilities and leave it at that. The GMs can then paint whatever fluff around it they want.

Geno9999
2010-04-07, 09:49 PM
A Paper Mario RPG?! Why the hell do I find awesome stuff like this so late?

Still! With the original side being down and all, I'll just throw some ideas out there! I didn't read all of the old thread, so bear with me- let's see what I can think of of the top of my head.

1. There are no classes. Instead, the race is a class. Advancing means gaining new abilities, and all races can choose from one big pool of abilities, with certain limits, of course. For example, getting wings is limited to Koopas and Goombas; not all characters can get Spikes; not all can get defense-nullifying attacks. Of course, these abilities are tied to a minimum level; you could translate the levels from the original Paper Mario that your comrades possessed to the general threshold they should have in this game.

2. Only Attack, Block and Item (yes, it's an actual ability) are abilities everyone possesses. There's also special badges that grant additional abilities.

3. There are six scores: Attack (POW), Defense (DEF), HP, FP, Speed, and Stache. In battle, the first four should be obvious. Speed determines the squares you can move and the order of the turns. Stache determines the general bonus to out-of-combat situations, as well as the difficulty of many special abilities.

4. Generally, it works like this: there is no AC; when somebody attacks, the target makes a roll of his own, generally to evade (but there are abilities to learn to counter as well, interrupting the other's attack.) Rolls are made, as usual, with a d20. 11-20 means it's a critical, which alters the effect of the attack somewhat. Bonus to attacks or to evasion are always either due to abilities, due to circumstances, due to items or due to badges- nothing else!
(Note that a bonus usually does nothing to determine the outcome of the critical hit chance; it only improves the result in comparison with that of the enemy.)

5. Everyone starts with a basic Slam attack, which does nothing when critical. For stuff like hammer or jump, the corresponding abilities have to be learned. If people try to do stuff they haven't learnt yet, but which is plausible, the results change: 1-10 means failure (which normally is right out), 11-20 means normal success, critical is not possible.

6. There is an array of "basic" abilities that can be used even when they don't have the ability. This means they suffer the result change described above. All abilities of a higher "tier" cannot be attempted by those not possessing them.

7. Upon gaining a level, everyone can distribute 5 points and gains two abilities. 10 points equal one point of speed, power, defense and skill, so "partial" points have to be spent. Everyone starts with 40 points, which can be freely distributed, and five abilities.

8. Basic attack types: slam (does nothing), jump (double damage, dealt separately), hammer (double damage), beam (nothing, but cannot be countered). There's certainly more...

9. Out-of-combat situations are dealt with in a similar way: you roll, enemy or obstacle rolls. Every typ of skill challenge is keyed to a certain ability that determines your bonus, as well as circumstances defined by the skills. There's also a critical success chance.
Jump: Speed; critical: +3 squares or something;
Break: Power; critical: break stronger blocks;
Socialize (or something): Stache; critical: NPC favourable towards character;
Balance: um, FP? Reword it, than it's fine... Critical: complete entire balance section without need for re-check.

Of course, skill challenges get a bonus based on their difficulty, and NPCs have special "counter skills" that only exist to provide numbers once PCs encounter them. The PCs could have them too, I guess- like Sense Motive versus Bluff, for example.

10: Battle: Everybody rolls their speed checks, and place in order. Everyone has one move and one action (it's not a move action, so it's only for crossing distance of any kind). The action can be another move as well.

11: For added fun, every three levels, you can pick a "quirk"! A quirk will make your character more memorable: adding a monocle, making your hat a trademark, gaining a fairly extravagant habit, and so on. A quirk can be a requirement for certain abilities, functioning as the border for "tiers". Also, some races come with quirks pre-equipped. A quirk does nothing beyond that, though, to keep things simple... or maybe it just gives skill bonus?

Man, there's so much you can just copy from the Paper Mario series. I'm kinda worried this might be too little and too simple, though. Up till now, we've got six scores, an undetermined amount of skills, and (5 + 2 per level) abilities. The key is that you HAVE to buy additional abilities to get anything; above that, there's only items, circumstances (from positioning or the enemy's situation, for example) and badges. That way, you have an even more colorful LEGO-like build of characters.

Of course, now you'd have to fill in some abilities, and describe some circumstances. What do you think so far? :smallsmile:
Hmm...
Instead of gaining abilites every level, maybe every 10 (or something)lvls?
So would the character sheet look like this?

(example) DSBoo
Race: Boo
Attack: Ghost Slap (1*d6 result) or SURPRISE! (Slam attack)
Ability: Hide (Both the Boo and another character disappears into the shadows. Both players reappear on the Boo's next round. The Boo cannot do any other actions, but the other player is allowed to attack.) Out of Combat; Hides boo and nearby player out of sight into the shadows. Noone can see them, and they can jump out at will. However, they cannot move while hiding.
Level/Rank Up attacks: 1; Scream (roll the d6. On an "Excellent" (6) all enemies that have a lower level than the boo runs away, leaving behind held items, but no experience is gained.)
2; Power Slap (3*d6, same as "Ghost Slap", but obviously more powerful.)
HP: 20
DEF: 0
FP: 10
BP: 6

I'm trying to keep it within Paper Mario and the Thousand-Year Door Standards.

Real Sorceror
2010-04-07, 11:43 PM
Hey my peeps, I don't know if this will help out, but I refound this website the other day: The Kobold's Keep (http://www.kobolds-keep.net/downloads.html)
They started working on a Mario d20 system. I've only skimmed over it, but it looks pretty expansive so hopefully that gives you some ideas. :smallwink:

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-08, 01:12 AM
Hey my peeps, I don't know if this will help out, but I refound this website the other day: The Kobold's Keep (http://www.kobolds-keep.net/downloads.html)
They started working on a Mario d20 system. I've only skimmed over it, but it looks pretty expansive so hopefully that gives you some ideas. :smallwink:
Hey, I'm (not-so-)famous! Yuck, I need to fix up that website. Nobody click the link!!! :smallbiggrin:

I'd love to work on this. You guys are shooting for a departure from the D20 system, which is fine by me. (I'm not a fan of 4e, that old stuff we made on the Wizards boards is 3.5 material and I'd rewrite it from scratch now to be more portable.)


Being faithful to the source material sounds like a good way to keep things fun. That means not rolling dice for damage (unless you've got an attack or badge that specifically calls for it) which makes for a more strategic and straightforward game. As for balance... Well, that can come later.

So, you've got the five basic stats of Power, Defense, HP, FP, and BP. (I'd rather not have one member of the party wasting communal FP, so I think that FP should be kept to each character.) A starting character has stats of 1, 0, 10, 5, and 3. Only HP, FP, and BP can be improved by leveling (at the rates of 5, 5, and 3,) you'd have to use equipment (or badges) to improve Power and Defense. This could be kept standard for all the races, since most of the racial differences in the games have less to do with stats and more to do with combat style. (Even for Koopas, they had +1 Defense, but could be knocked down and made vulnerable.)

I'd imagine combat could use a two-row combat system, like in the Final Fantasy games. This would let party members diversify (read: "min-max") their roles. Of course, monsters would have the same thing, so you'd have to make skills explicit about rows.

For "timed hits" and other such things, we've got a couple of options. I'm in favor of pushing those all over to the badge system. You have to equip a badge to Counterattack (roll higher on a 1d6 than your opponent's 2d6,) timed hits would be built into every badge (you can roll if you want to try but there's a penalty for failure.)

Distinguishing between badges, equipment, and race may be difficult. However, players are used to having loot, and I think that rewarding players with badges or making badges things to spend hard-earned coins on would work well.

Equipment was the focus of Mario's attack styles (hammer and shoes,) and I think that would work well for all of the races too. Koopas could equip shells that would grant Power bonuses and access to a few badge-like skills like Power Shell, Goombas could equip hats, Punies could equip shiny rocks, caster-types could equip wands, etc. I feel that equipment should be the main method of boosting your Power (and Defense,) just like in the games.

As for races, I think that the best and simplest method is just to make everything part of the badge system. You shouldn't actually make the basic attacks badges (badges would grant skills that cost FP,) instead make race and equipment attacks things that you use BP to equip. Got a hammer? It's 1 BP badge to attack with it normally in combat. Want to explode? Your racial exploding ability costs 2 BP (and does cost FP,) but you don't have to spend those BP if you want something else. Got a magikoopa wand? That's 3 BP for the weak Defense-ignoring energy attack that sets enemies on fire.


Edit: Oh, and Star Power, or audience power or whatever we'll call it. That... Seems quest-specific to me. And it seems like it's needlessly complicated, it's something small and fiddly you'd have to keep track of during combat. We could say that parties have a daily allotment of Star Power, and anybody can use some of it for healing moves and party buffs (being a healer wasn't common in the games.) And we could have the party regain a little for defeating enemies or whenever someone in the party is KOed. The whole point of Star Power would be to help you last longer in dungeons and give yourself extra Oomph to get through tough fights.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-08, 02:22 AM
Oh, one more thing. Flipping through the old races I had, I've got this short races list:


Bob-omb (big and small, though that might not be so important)
Boo
Cheep-Cheep (http://www.mariowiki.com/Cheep-Cheep)
Doogan (http://www.mariowiki.com/Doogan) (I have no idea how good they'd be in combat, they seem peaceful)
Goomba
Human (or whatever passes for it, I think Bleck is human, as are all of the different-looking townsfolk in Super Paper Mario)
Koopa
Nomadimouse (http://www.mariowiki.com/Nomadimouse)
Penguin (admit it, ice attacks are cool) :smalltongue:
Pianta
Puni
Ratooey (http://www.mariowiki.com/Ratooey) (peaceful just like Doogans)
Shaman (http://www.mariowiki.com/Shaman) (might be human?)
Shy Guy
Toad (according to tTYD, one of the original 4 heroes was a toad who was "strong of arm")
Yoshi
Para- versions of lots of these, maybe it could just be a badge ability (since it was a power-up for Yoshi in Super Mario World)

Seguile Daengz
2010-04-08, 08:36 AM
Hm, I don't think we should try to outright imitate the Paper Mario battle system. It's great to lend many things from, but copying actual battle rows and positioning goes too far, if you ask me.

As for the abilities: when I said, 5 at the start and 2 for every following level, I meant that these abilities determine most bonus you ever get. You get so many because they are so weak on their own. Yes, there are "actual" abilities out there, but these are restricted to certain races or levels, or have prerequisites. For example, one ability only gives +3 to Jump attacks- not an actual ability, just a bonus!

As for damage, I think we should keep it simple: everything does, by default, 1 damage, or 2 if critical or something. Only abilities, badges and equipment (super shoes and the like) raise damage.

Also, attacks usually cannot miss in the Paper Mario games. I'd like to keep that, with certain exceptions. I already made one suggestion (1-10 normal, 11-20 critical with special effects, or with untrained abilities: 1-10 miss, 11-20 normal), and here's another idea for that: when an ability has the possibility of something better than good (Excellent, Great, you know the deal), then higher numbers get that result, as in: 1-10 normal, 11-13 good, 14-17 great, 18-20 excellent.
Attacks can only NOT hit when a) the enemy uses something to introduce a miss chance, such as certain badges or status effects, b) the enemy has the ability to block- still hitting, but increasing the defense, c) the enemy has the ability to evade, d) the enemy has the ability to counter.
For the miss chance, the lower numbers change from normal hit to miss instead, "pushing" other results away; for example, 1-5 miss, 6-115 hit, 16-20 great and so on.
For the other three, the enemy can choose to answer with a roll of his own, and if the number itself is higher (not the result 1-20, but the end result with all bonus applied), then he can block/evade/counter. This is meant to simulate the timing from the games.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-08, 11:35 AM
It's obvious that we're going to need dice. The question is, "which dice?"

D20 works for D&D players because they already have them lying around, and it gives finer criteria for different effects.
D6 also works for D&D players, and for casual player who can find normal dice anywhere. I'd prefer a d6 system over a d20 system.

I think that having a simple system based on halves would work well. It doesn't matter what die you roll, just roll anything on the better half of the numbers for that die. So 3+ on a d4, 5+ on a d8, and 11+ on a d20. For more advanced probabilities, you roll X dice and Y successes is the good result.

When you actually write the system you could refer to d6es in everything, or just "dice", but you could add a note that says that while you're referring to d6es, you can use any even-numbered die.

For example, the Sleepy Stomp badge could look like this:

Sleepy Stomp
Type: Jump Special
BP: 2
FP: 2 plus 1 per additional badge
Effect: Make a normal jump attack, deal damage, and then roll two dice. If either die is a success, your opponent now has the Sleep status effect.
Timed Hit: Roll three dice. If none are successful, you miss. If one is successful, you only deal normal damage. If two are successful, the effect is normal. If three are successful, the effect is normal and you deal extra damage as described in the Jump skill.
Addition: For every additional badge, you may roll an additional die.

Lord Raziere
2010-04-08, 06:53 PM
hey what about the Pixls? should we could include them as an ability we could gain or something? y'know the ability to use Pixls?

and I'm not sure about Punis becoming something playable; they look too small for any usual abilities and the fights they had with Jabbies weren't like the usual fights in paper mario 2, you couldn't even participate in them, I thinking of cutting out Punis from the available races but that is about it.

also: no love for Cragnons, Nimbis, Floro Sapiens, Clubbas, Duplighosts, Clefts, Bandits or Ravens? I'm disappointed.

DarknessLord
2010-04-08, 07:07 PM
Agreed, yet again. Speaking of crunch, how are we handling character creation? I suggest a point buy system. You have 8 points, 1 point is either 5 HP, 5 FP, or 3 BP, and 2 points is 1 POW, 1 DEF, or a skill. This would be stacked on a Race's bonuses, and limited by the race's caps.

I see it like this, each race has a level based on the stuff that they start out with (adjusted slightly for the fact that it is fixed and not customizable). Everyone starts out with the base stats (which I think Thomar had the right idea in taking it from the games so: 10 HP 5 FP, 3 BP, 1 POW, 0 DEF) then adds in their race (the Koopa's shell, the Bob-omb's ability to explode, a Boo's floating and invisibility power). And then, all the lower level races level up to the highest leveled Race's character level.

Example: Suppose That a Goomba's race level is 1, a Koopa's 2, and a Boo's is 3. If the party is one of each, then, all party members start out at level 3, the Goomba gains 2 levels right away, the Koopa gains 1, while the Boo remains where it is. If it was 2 Goombas and a Koopa, the Goombas would both gain a level, and the Koopa would stay where it was at, and the party level would be 2. A party of all Goombas would stay at level 1 and have to earn those starpoints to level up


Oh, one more thing. Flipping through the old races I had, I've got this short races list:
*sniped race list*

While I would certainly like to make all of those playable (even if a chunk of the humanoid ones would all end up very similar), I think we should stick to the core races for while we are building the game, and then make the more “exotic” races after we are done, so we can have a system that is playable, and will appeal to most character types you'd want to play in a Mario game, and then we can worry about how to fit things like the Ratooey in. My thoughts on what the core races are:

Bob-omb
Boo
Cheep-cheep (not exactly iconic as the others, but it would be nice to have a base aquatic race for reference)
Goomba
Human
Koopa
Shy-Guy
Toad
Yoshi

Which is in of itself a good amount.



For "timed hits" and other such things, we've got a couple of options. I'm in favor of pushing those all over to the badge system. You have to equip a badge to Counterattack (roll higher on a 1d6 than your opponent's 2d6,) timed hits would be built into every badge (you can roll if you want to try but there's a penalty for failure.)
I generally like timed hits just as a bonus for luck, not so much as a gamble (although I do like it for counter attacking and like the idea of certain high-risk/reward badges and moves) just because in general the games didn't punish you for messing up the commands any more than it did for simply not doing them, and they were generally implemented to mix up the monotony of the simple turn based battle system, so I don't think we should discourage people from using them,


Distinguishing between badges, equipment, and race may be difficult. However, players are used to having loot, and I think that rewarding players with badges or making badges things to spend hard-earned coins on would work well.

Equipment was the focus of Mario's attack styles (hammer and shoes,) and I think that would work well for all of the races too. Koopas could equip shells that would grant Power bonuses and access to a few badge-like skills like Power Shell, Goombas could equip hats, Punies could equip shiny rocks, caster-types could equip wands, etc. I feel that equipment should be the main method of boosting your Power (and Defense,) just like in the games.

As for races, I think that the best and simplest method is just to make everything part of the badge system. You shouldn't actually make the basic attacks badges (badges would grant skills that cost FP,) instead make race and equipment attacks things that you use BP to equip. Got a hammer? It's 1 BP badge to attack with it normally in combat. Want to explode? Your racial exploding ability costs 2 BP (and does cost FP,) but you don't have to spend those BP if you want something else. Got a magikoopa wand? That's 3 BP for the weak Defense-ignoring energy attack that sets enemies on fire.
I kinda like the implementing the racial progressions into the BP system, although I think that something like growing wings should not be something that you can take on and off willy-nilly, perhaps make racial abilities that you develop a permanent advantage at the cost of some customizablity.

I am certain, however, that when I make a character I want to start out with the basic abilities of that race, although not necessarily the advanced abilities (IE all starting Bob-ombs should blow up, all Boos should turn invisible, but a Koopa will have to earn that robe and wizard hat (and maybe trade the shell it started with for it), and a Goomba will earn that spike/those wings.


Hm, I don't think we should try to outright imitate the Paper Mario battle system. It's great to lend many things from, but copying actual battle rows and positioning goes too far, if you ask me.
Agreed, I propose that positioning is limited to one of 3 areas ground, air, ceiling, it keeps it simple, gives proper benefits to critters that can fly/float/climb, and still allows for the stuff like “your hammer/shell/ whatever won't reach that high.”


It's obvious that we're going to need dice. The question is, "which dice?"

D20 works for D&D players because they already have them lying around, and it gives finer criteria for different effects.
D6 also works for D&D players, and for casual player who can find normal dice anywhere. I'd prefer a d6 system over a d20 system.

I think that having a simple system based on halves would work well. It doesn't matter what die you roll, just roll anything on the better half of the numbers for that die. So 3+ on a d4, 5+ on a d8, and 11+ on a d20. For more advanced probabilities, you roll X dice and Y successes is the good result.

When you actually write the system you could refer to d6es in everything, or just "dice", but you could add a note that says that while you're referring to d6es, you can use any even-numbered die.

As much as I think it is simpler to use degrees of success based on one common die (d6), I find the idea of just a hand full of random mis-matched die humorous and somehow fitting for this.



Edit: Oh, and Star Power, or audience power or whatever we'll call it. That... Seems quest-specific to me. And it seems like it's needlessly complicated, it's something small and fiddly you'd have to keep track of during combat. We could say that parties have a daily allotment of Star Power, and anybody can use some of it for healing moves and party buffs (being a healer wasn't common in the games.) And we could have the party regain a little for defeating enemies or whenever someone in the party is KOed. The whole point of Star Power would be to help you last longer in dungeons and give yourself extra Oomph to get through tough fights.


Audience would probably work like this: The GM rolls on a table to see what shows up in the audience, 5 or so times at the start of a battle, then once every following turn. There is a maximum of 50 audience members at any given time.

At the start of each turn, the GM rolls (or uses a random number generator) to select a 'seat'. If the 'seat' isn't occupied by an audience member, nothing happens. If it is, the audience member performs a preset action (a toad tosses a PC a mushroom, a hammer bro. throws a hammer at someone that deals a small amount of damage, a shy guy runs on stage and causes mayhem, etc).

A character can appeal to make any actions performed by the audience at the start of the next turn more favorable for them (toad gives a super mushroom instead of a normal one, the hammer bro targets an enemy with it's throw, etc).

As for the star powers, we can do the crunch for powerful if generic abilities and leave it at that. The GMs can then paint whatever fluff around it they want.

Yeah, I think we should just do general guidelines for starpower and let the GM* put what/if they want it to be.

*Also I think we should decide if we want to call it the GM, or make up a silly name for it like “Game designer” or something, just something to think about.

I am very happy with the amount of ideas we already got flowing, let's do our best to keep it up!

UserShadow7989
2010-04-08, 07:10 PM
Hm, I don't think we should try to outright imitate the Paper Mario battle system. It's great to lend many things from, but copying actual battle rows and positioning goes too far, if you ask me.

I'm a bit torn on the subject myself, actually. I like to keep things as simple as possible whenever making a system, but dumping easily understood movement for ambiguous positioning could cause a bit of confusion at a gaming table. On top of that, rows and positioning requires several players to agree on any given change because it affects more then one person. If we come up with a simple version that allows players to move without negatively effecting each other, it's fine, but normal movement should also be considered.


As for the abilities: when I said, 5 at the start and 2 for every following level, I meant that these abilities determine most bonus you ever get. You get so many because they are so weak on their own. Yes, there are "actual" abilities out there, but these are restricted to certain races or levels, or have prerequisites. For example, one ability only gives +3 to Jump attacks- not an actual ability, just a bonus!

So the abilities are minor bonuses, with some harder to obtain abilities acting like feats? Works for me.


As for damage, I think we should keep it simple: everything does, by default, 1 damage, or 2 if critical or something. Only abilities, badges and equipment (super shoes and the like) raise damage.

I wholeheartedly agree.


Also, attacks usually cannot miss in the Paper Mario games. I'd like to keep that, with certain exceptions. I already made one suggestion (1-10 normal, 11-20 critical with special effects, or with untrained abilities: 1-10 miss, 11-20 normal), and here's another idea for that: when an ability has the possibility of something better than good (Excellent, Great, you know the deal), then higher numbers get that result, as in: 1-10 normal, 11-13 good, 14-17 great, 18-20 excellent.
Attacks can only NOT hit when a) the enemy uses something to introduce a miss chance, such as certain badges or status effects, b) the enemy has the ability to block- still hitting, but increasing the defense, c) the enemy has the ability to evade, d) the enemy has the ability to counter.
For the miss chance, the lower numbers change from normal hit to miss instead, "pushing" other results away; for example, 1-5 miss, 6-115 hit, 16-20 great and so on.
For the other three, the enemy can choose to answer with a roll of his own, and if the number itself is higher (not the result 1-20, but the end result with all bonus applied), then he can block/evade/counter. This is meant to simulate the timing from the games.

Again, I agree.

On the topic of what dice to use, I vote for a d6 for simple rolls, with a d20 being saved for something with more possible outcomes.

EDIT: I agree with everything in DarknessLord's above post. I wish I had something more constructive to say then 'I agree' to all this, but everyone here seems to have a better idea of how this should work then I do.

I also wonder what we should do about pixels, if anything. I'd save them for after we've worked out the basics and play tested a few times.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-08, 09:57 PM
Example: Suppose That a Goomba's race level is 1, a Koopa's 2, and a Boo's is 3. If the party is one of each, then, all party members start out at level 3, the Goomba gains 2 levels right away, the Koopa gains 1, while the Boo remains where it is. If it was 2 Goombas and a Koopa, the Goombas would both gain a level, and the Koopa would stay where it was at, and the party level would be 2. A party of all Goombas would stay at level 1 and have to earn those starpoints to level up
What if we figure out ways to make them balanced anyways? For example, a Koopa's +1 Defense is counterbalanced by his knock-over weakness, any ground-shaking attack or jump attack will knock him down for a turn.
In the same way, we could have Boos only have 5 HP and no BP to balance their invisibility and flight powers.

The whole point of balancing the common races to not require LA would be to make it more fun and easier to play.


I generally like timed hits just as a bonus for luck, not so much as a gamble (although I do like it for counter attacking and like the idea of certain high-risk/reward badges and moves) just because in general the games didn't punish you for messing up the commands any more than it did for simply not doing them, and they were generally implemented to mix up the monotony of the simple turn based battle system, so I don't think we should discourage people from using them,
I'd like to call them "critical hits" and just make a flat 25% chance for every attack to crit in a unique manner. (Hammers do double damage, jumps hit twice, fire attacks do +1 damage and cause burning, etc.) FP attacks would usually have their severity or status effect duration improved by the crit, but not be dependent on randomness to take effect.

Oh, and 25% chance is two successes on two dice. And you could equip the Lucky badge to roll 3 dice, etc etc...


I kinda like the implementing the racial progressions into the BP system, although I think that something like growing wings should not be something that you can take on and off willy-nilly, perhaps make racial abilities that you develop a permanent advantage at the cost of some customizablity.

I am certain, however, that when I make a character I want to start out with the basic abilities of that race, although not necessarily the advanced abilities (IE all starting Bob-ombs should blow up, all Boos should turn invisible, but a Koopa will have to earn that robe and wizard hat (and maybe trade the shell it started with for it), and a Goomba will earn that spike/those wings.

What if you make it part of the level-up? You can get 5 HP, 5 FP, 3 BP, or take a racial extra. Wings let you fly but you lose -5 HP, spikiness protects you from jump and slam attacks but you lose -5 FP, firebreath as a no-FP attack but you lose -3 BP, and so on.



Agreed, I propose that positioning is limited to one of 3 areas ground, air, ceiling, it keeps it simple, gives proper benefits to critters that can fly/float/climb, and still allows for the stuff like “your hammer/shell/ whatever won't reach that high.”
Yeah, but then it's hard to protect weaker or less melee-oriented characters. I would have a Front Row and Back Row and let Back Row characters be protected (from most attacks) because any Front Row character has to be hit first.
The ground/air/ceiling stuff isn't bad either. And, for the sake of an example, let's say you have a parakoopa and a ceiling-crawling buzzy in the front row of your party, and a goomba in the back. if an enemy attacks with a hammer, he can't hit the two in the Front Row, so he can go ahead and try for the Back Row unless the parakoopa and buzzy decide to drop down to defend the goomba.

Or, even more simply, we could just set up a one-dimensional combat system. This is your party, this is what order they're in, and all attacks work off of that. (So you don't have to be in the front to melee, but all melee attacks hit the unlucky meat shield in front.) Then, if the front-liner gets hurt badly, he can Switch back in the combat order and let someone else take point. Many of the game's attacks also worked off of this combat order, like Mario's fire attack which dealt 1 less damage for each enemy it had already hit.


Anyways, I've got a project due soon. I'll come back to this later to take a stab at some race and weapon abilities. (Would we let players buy weapons for new attack types? Mario would just find a hammer and start using it...)

Geno9999
2010-04-08, 10:04 PM
I see it like this, each race has a level based on the stuff that they start out with (adjusted slightly for the fact that it is fixed and not customizable). Everyone starts out with the base stats (which I think Thomar had the right idea in taking it from the games so: 10 HP 5 FP, 3 BP, 1 POW, 0 DEF) then adds in their race (the Koopa's shell, the Bob-omb's ability to explode, a Boo's floating and invisibility power). And then, all the lower level races level up to the highest leveled Race's character level.
Yeah, I prefer that over trying to convert Paper Mario into D&D.


While I would certainly like to make all of those playable (even if a chunk of the humanoid ones would all end up very similar), I think we should stick to the core races for while we are building the game, and then make the more “exotic” races after we are done, so we can have a system that is playable, and will appeal to most character types you'd want to play in a Mario game, and then we can worry about how to fit things like the Ratooey in. My thoughts on what the core races are:

Bob-omb
Boo
Cheep-cheep (not exactly iconic as the others, but it would be nice to have a base aquatic race for reference)
Goomba
Human
Koopa
Shy-Guy
Toad
Yoshi

Which is in of itself a good amount. Again, *dramatic, Mortal Kombat voice* AGREEMENT!!!




I kinda like the implementing the racial progressions into the BP system, although I think that something like growing wings should not be something that you can take on and off willy-nilly, perhaps make racial abilities that you develop a permanent advantage at the cost of some customizablity.

I am certain, however, that when I make a character I want to start out with the basic abilities of that race, although not necessarily the advanced abilities (IE all starting Bob-ombs should blow up, all Boos should turn invisible, but a Koopa will have to earn that robe and wizard hat (and maybe trade the shell it started with for it), and a Goomba will earn that spike/those wings. Another thing I support, but this kinda raises up how/when are the options available or do we leave it up to the GM?



Agreed, I propose that positioning is limited to one of 3 areas ground, air, ceiling, it keeps it simple, gives proper benefits to critters that can fly/float/climb, and still allows for the stuff like “your hammer/shell/ whatever won't reach that high.” But remember that guys like Boos are float off the ground enough not to be affected by Quake Hammer, but can be smashed in the face by a regular melee attack.



As much as I think it is simpler to use degrees of success based on one common die (d6), I find the idea of just a hand full of random mis-matched die humorous and somehow fitting for this.

Yeah, I think we should just do general guidelines for starpower and let the GM* put what/if they want it to be. We could put in general ideas and powers (like the common 5 HP & FP Heal move) but the GM can decide actual powers and the success rate (Read: how assorted the dice should be)


*Also I think we should decide if we want to call it the GM, or make up a silly name for it like “Game designer” or something, just something to think about.
Hmm... The Narrator? Great Being? Star Spirit?... Book artist?

DarknessLord
2010-04-09, 12:46 AM
EDIT: I agree with everything in DarknessLord's above post. I wish I had something more constructive to say then 'I agree' to all this, but everyone here seems to have a better idea of how this should work then I do.
Well, I do love to be agreed with. :smallwink:
But at the very least it lets us know we're not on the complete wrong track, and when you do think of something, let us know okay?



I also wonder what we should do about pixels, if anything. I'd save them for after we've worked out the basics and play tested a few times.
Aye, not sure either, thankfully not high priority though.



What if we figure out ways to make them balanced anyways? For example, a Koopa's +1 Defense is counterbalanced by his knock-over weakness, any ground-shaking attack or jump attack will knock him down for a turn.
In the same way, we could have Boos only have 5 HP and no BP to balance their invisibility and flight powers.

The whole point of balancing the common races to not require LA would be to make it more fun and easier to play.
Most certainly an ideal situation, and I wholeheartedly agree that doing it this way is worth an attempt.



I'd like to call them "critical hits" and just make a flat 25% chance for every attack to crit in a unique manner. (Hammers do double damage, jumps hit twice, fire attacks do +1 damage and cause burning, etc.) FP attacks would usually have their severity or status effect duration improved by the crit, but not be dependent on randomness to take effect.

Oh, and 25% chance is two successes on two dice. And you could equip the Lucky badge to roll 3 dice, etc etc...
Aside from the fact that I like to think I found it easier to get action commands then 25% of the time, this seems reasonable. Then again watching my sister play 25% would be generous, so it seems as good as a percentage as any.



What if you make it part of the level-up? You can get 5 HP, 5 FP, 3 BP, or take a racial extra. Wings let you fly but you lose -5 HP, spikiness protects you from jump and slam attacks but you lose -5 FP, firebreath as a no-FP attack but you lose -3 BP, and so on.
Now what sort of idiot would come up with...


As for advancement, I most definitely agree that race should be a huge factor in it, and I am sort of seeing adding in to the races that can advance and option to advance their race (like going from a Goomba to a Paragoomba) as an option for their level-up bonus(es), balenced by the fact that they don't get any more of a bonus then the other races do. (So while you learned to fly, you buddies actually advanced their HP/FP/BP or whatever stats we end up going with.)

Oh. :smallredface:
Kidding, of course, I probably missed a great deal of points already myself, as this thread seems to be getting long posts (which isn't a bad thing.
Like I just noticed this:


11: For added fun, every three levels, you can pick a "quirk"! A quirk will make your character more memorable: adding a monocle, making your hat a trademark, gaining a fairly extravagant habit, and so on. A quirk can be a requirement for certain abilities, functioning as the border for "tiers". Also, some races come with quirks pre-equipped. A quirk does nothing beyond that, though, to keep things simple... or maybe it just gives skill bonus?

I honestly like the quirk idea, and am demanding that even if we don't go for the getting them with level ups, characters should all at least have 1 when they start out, I mean, all of Mario's partners were at least a rare color of whatever type of foe they were, and I think it would add fun and flavor even if we edit out any mechanical part of it.




Yeah, but then it's hard to protect weaker or less melee-oriented characters. I would have a Front Row and Back Row and let Back Row characters be protected (from most attacks) because any Front Row character has to be hit first.
The ground/air/ceiling stuff isn't bad either. And, for the sake of an example, let's say you have a parakoopa and a ceiling-crawling buzzy in the front row of your party, and a goomba in the back. if an enemy attacks with a hammer, he can't hit the two in the Front Row, so he can go ahead and try for the Back Row unless the parakoopa and buzzy decide to drop down to defend the goomba.

Or, even more simply, we could just set up a one-dimensional combat system. This is your party, this is what order they're in, and all attacks work off of that. (So you don't have to be in the front to melee, but all melee attacks hit the unlucky meat shield in front.) Then, if the front-liner gets hurt badly, he can Switch back in the combat order and let someone else take point. Many of the game's attacks also worked off of this combat order, like Mario's fire attack which dealt 1 less damage for each enemy it had already hit.
Hmmmm, good point here, I am not sure if it is simpler to go with the whole long line thing, or the two rows thing.
I think the two rows will make it so one single character doesn't have to waste all his/her points on being the primary damage taker all the time (and if someone wants to, then everyone else can move to the back for the same effect), honestly we might only need 2 rows on the ground, since most air/ceiling attacks either hit everyone or can hit anyone, which would just up it to 4 positions (or 6 if we do go with all areas need front back).


Anyways, I've got a project due soon. I'll come back to this later to take a stab at some race and weapon abilities. (Would we let players buy weapons for new attack types? Mario would just find a hammer and start using it...)
Alright, important stuffs gotta come first, good luck with the project.
As for weapons.... Hmmmm....
Perhaps consumable items can be used by anyone, but weapons need a skill (perhaps weapon usage can be a racial ability/racial level up ability for the races with arms?) , and then as a benefit they pick a basic one up somewhere, Super/Ultra ones pending on once we figure out how those should be obtained?



Another thing I support, but this kinda raises up how/when are the options available or do we leave it up to the GM?

There needs to be SOME regulation on this, as I have no problem with a Goomba who wants to spend his first level up on Wings or Spikes, but I do take issue with “Level 3 spiked and flying Goomba lol”, I don't have an issue with a HIGH level spiked flying goomba, cause at higher levels enemies with things like throwing, shooting, or breath attacks should be common enough that you are not untouchable.


But remember that guys like Boos are float off the ground enough not to be affected by Quake Hammer, but can be smashed in the face by a regular melee attack.

Aye, we should give floating enemies a “not effected by earthquake type attacks even when at ground level” clause in their float ability, but it's a good thing to bring up.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-09, 01:05 AM
Here's a few proposals for basic race abilities:


Bob-omb - Natural slam attack that does double damage on a critical hit.
Special attacks include high-damage explosions and multi-hit bomb barrages.
Boo - Can fly, but -5 HP. Natural attack is a lick that causes fear effects on a critical hit. (If we're gonna add invisibility as a starter ability, I'd take off -3 BP too. I'm in favor of making invisibility a BP ability.)
Special attacks include status effects like paralyze, poison, and fear.
Cheep-Cheep - Can fly (and swim,) but -5 HP. Natural attack is a flying slam that does +1 damage on a critical.
Special attacks include water-element ranged attacks and water-element AOE effects.
Goomba - Natural attack is a headbonk that hits twice on a critical.
Special attacks include Power-boost and multi-hit attacks.
Human - No natural attack, but gets a free weapon proficiency (probably something anyone can take when levelling up in place of a stat boost, but humans can start with it.) Probably relies more on equipment than any other race.
Koopa - +1 defense from the shell, but can be knocked down. Shell attack is a ground-based attack that does double damage on a critical.
Special attacks include Defense-boost and AOE ground attacks.
Shy-Guy - Has a slingshot that causes dizzying on a critical.
Special attacks would be off-the-wall and extremely random.
Toad - Like human.
Special attacks include healing and item boosting (double effect from mushrooms and things like that.)
Yoshi - Ground pound enemies with a jump attack that hits twice on a critical hit.
Special attacks include a wide range of AOE elemental attacks and the Defense-piercing Gulp attack.

Lord Raziere
2010-04-09, 01:27 AM
what about the magic of the setting? there is evidence of people being to use magic in the mario world, may not be as widespread as other worlds but you can still beat up mages as mooks and something powerful as the crystals stars are able to be created while the badges clearly cast enchantments upon people who wear them to make them able to do cool stuff...would magic just be another ability or something more?

and I still say wielding Pixls should be an ability, an optional ability if not core.

and how are we gonna incorporate the tech here to? sure the tech also may be as random as the magic but its still there, how should we handle bullet bills for example?

DarknessLord
2010-04-09, 01:33 AM
The only problems I have with Cheep-Cheeps flying my memory is fuzzy but, from what I read on the wiki and remember only certain variants flew out of water and even that was only for brief instances (unlike Bloopers who float in air in the Paper Mario games)
Shushie, generally just flopped around. I'd say cut out the HP loss, and the fly, but let them have swim.

One of the things I feel very strongly about is that Bob-ombs should be able to explode from level 1, I see two real options for it.
It KOs them, or they other wise take damage from it, racial upgrades let them fix this (To the point of just spending FP like Bombette or Admiral Bobbery can)
Or, just take away -5 HP as a balancer and to represent weakness due to blowing up.
Also Explosion damage and FP cost TBD. ninja'd by that edit

Other than that I like very much.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-09, 01:38 AM
Aside from the fact that I like to think I found it easier to get action commands then 25% of the time, this seems reasonable. Then again watching my sister play 25% would be generous, so it seems as good as a percentage as any.

Since we're calling them "criticals," and they're not the normal effect of the base attacks, I think 25% is a good baseline. They come into effect often, but you shouldn't come to rely on them.


I honestly like the quirk idea, and am demanding that even if we don't go for the getting them with level ups, characters should all at least have 1 when they start out, I mean, all of Mario's partners were at least a rare color of whatever type of foe they were, and I think it would add fun and flavor even if we edit out any mechanical part of it.
I'm wary of complexity. Keep it simple.


Alright, important stuffs gotta come first, good luck with the project.
As for weapons.... Hmmmm....
Perhaps consumable items can be used by anyone, but weapons need a skill (perhaps weapon usage can be a racial ability/racial level up ability for the races with arms?) , and then as a benefit they pick a basic one up somewhere, Super/Ultra ones pending on once we figure out how those should be obtained?
Okay, here's my take on proficiency:

Anybody can throw a punch. If you've got a Power stat higher than 0, you can use it. However, an untrained punch can't land a critical hit. (Trained can, of course, probably for double damage.)

Same goes for weapons. You can use any weapon at your Power, but you can't land criticals. (I would imagine that all weapons only hit one opponent and have no special effect, otherwise this could get out of hand.) Also, if you're not proficient with the weapon, it takes up space in your inventory (so backups really shouldn't be worth lugging around.) You also cannot use a badge that requires the weapon.

In place of getting stat growth when you level, you can choose to pick up a proficiency. (This may be part of the racial skill lists.) This lets you use the weapon, land criticals with it, and use badges with it.

(I'm assuming we'd lower the number of carried items to 5, since everyone in the party will have items.)

This, by the way, assumes that all special attack badges are weapon-specific. This makes humans (and toads) extremely reliant on them. We may make it so that many special attack badges overlap weapon categories.

I'd imagine weapons are slightly more expensive than badges. They seemed pretty rare in the games. For now, I think we can stick to jump shoes, hammers, and shells.


Aye, we should give floating enemies a “not effected by earthquake type attacks even when at ground level” clause in their float ability, but it's a good thing to bring up.
I'd give that one to anyone with flight, provided they're not stunned or something.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-09, 01:44 AM
what about the magic of the setting? there is evidence of people being to use magic in the mario world, may not be as widespread as other worlds but you can still beat up mages as mooks and something powerful as the crystals stars are able to be created while the badges clearly cast enchantments upon people who wear them to make them able to do cool stuff...would magic just be another ability or something more?

and I still say wielding Pixls should be an ability, an optional ability if not core.

and how are we gonna incorporate the tech here to? sure the tech also may be as random as the magic but its still there, how should we handle bullet bills for example?

Magic would probably be covered by a highly specialized and rare branch of badges, or maybe by Wand or Staff-type weapons. I support making it unique from any other skill in its mechanics. Maybe we could have wands and staves grant their user badge-like abilities when wielded, or be fuelled by unspent BPs. Maybe when you level you can forego levelling stats to unlock a branch of magic spells which just need BP to equip.

Yup, there's room for Pixls in the system eventually. They're just low-priority, for now it seems we're focusing on the Gamecube and N64 Paper Marios. I'd imagine they'd work like equipment, granting an attack or FP-costing special without requiring proficiency or an inventory slot.

Tech... is quite random. The Mario setting has numerous anachronisms. I think we could have a general "firearms" weapon type, which would cover everything from rifles to lasers to comically large cannons. It's up to the GM to figure out how many anachronisms a setting can handle.

Bullet bills would work like in the game, a high-HP cannon spawns bullet bill enemies which do suicide attacks.

Lord Raziere
2010-04-09, 01:49 AM
cool, I'm just making sure they are a priority- they are cool y'know, could be an optional rule thing that allows people access to abilities they don't normally have.

in fact I think I have in mind a lot of optional alternate type things- I think I might have to check back later when you guys are done doing core. :smallcool:

DarknessLord
2010-04-09, 01:50 AM
Since I should be heading to bed, and stuff genrally looks fine to me, I'll just address 2 quick things




I'm wary of complexity. Keep it simple.

I meant, I like the concept of giving characters things that make them stand out, rather than the mechanical benefits proposed. I was just saying that at during the character creation process we should add "pick something that makes your character different from others of it's race (no mechanical benefits or drawbacks)" Like Goomba with really awesome hat, Shy Guy who talks like a Scotsman, Koopa with a leather jacket.


Anybody can throw a punch.
Not if they don't have arms they can't. :smallbiggrin:
See, I'm tired and found that funny, change it to basic attack (which could be Punch kick, slam) or whatever, and the point can remain effectively the same, just factoring in those poor armless goombas.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-09, 01:56 AM
I meant, I like the concept of giving characters things that make them stand out, rather than the mechanical benefits proposed. I was just saying that at during the character creation process we should add "pick something that makes your character different from others of it's race (no mechanical benefits or drawbacks)" Like Goomba with really awesome hat, Shy Guy who talks like a Scotsman, Koopa with a leather jacket.

Sure, even the 3.5 DMG has a couple of tables like that.


Not if they don't have arms they can't. :smallbiggrin:
See, I'm tired and found that funny, change it to basic attack (which could be Punch kick, slam) or whatever, and the point can remain effectively the same, just factoring in those poor armless goombas.

They could also flail like a magikarp. Still does 1 damage. :smallwink:

Seguile Daengz
2010-04-09, 06:11 AM
Since we're calling them "criticals," and they're not the normal effect of the base attacks, I think 25% is a good baseline. They come into effect often, but you shouldn't come to rely on them.

Hmmm, so we have a fixed "critical" range? How about changing that a bit? For example, with normal attacks, the critical chance is 50%, but the more powerful the ability, the more difficult it is to have one; for example, Quake Hammer only has a 30% chance.

Also, how do you propose we should deal with different kinds of criticals? Do we just ignore them? I'd still suggest using some kind of fluctuating d20, as in, some numbers mean success, others don't, and some mean more success than others. Also, I believe players should be able to influence this kind of result, to reflect that you get better at action commands in the game as well. :smallbiggrin:

Finally, I'd say we need a different philosophy: criticals are not special, they are the norm, much as in the games themselves. Many attacks simply weren't very useful when you didn't succeed at the action command to SOME degree (some like Star Quake, I think that was its name, didn't even damage flying opponents, while even reaching ceiling opponents if you succeeded).


I'm wary of complexity. Keep it simple.

Totally agreed. I don't think we need "Paper Mario: The Game Only Without A Screen", but that doesn't mean we should make everything very complex. Hence, I suggest a very limited way of obtaining abilities: everything comes from the ability pool, badges or items, absolutely everything, and the only thing distinguishing characters are their race (which only determine access to certain abilities) and the prerequisites which they decide to fulfill. And maybe quirks. :smallsmile:



Okay, here's my take on proficiency:

Anybody can throw a punch. If you've got a Power stat higher than 0, you can use it. However, an untrained punch can't land a critical hit. (Trained can, of course, probably for double damage.)

Same goes for weapons. You can use any weapon at your Power, but you can't land criticals. (I would imagine that all weapons only hit one opponent and have no special effect, otherwise this could get out of hand.) Also, if you're not proficient with the weapon, it takes up space in your inventory (so backups really shouldn't be worth lugging around.) You also cannot use a badge that requires the weapon.

In place of getting stat growth when you level, you can choose to pick up a proficiency. (This may be part of the racial skill lists.) This lets you use the weapon, land criticals with it, and use badges with it.


Did you realize we just arrived at exactly the same idea completely independently? :smalltongue:

Basically, everything you mentioned is also covered by abilities, and what I said about the fluctuating d20: if you have the ability (proficiency would also be an ability here), then you can hit normally and land criticals. If you don't, you can still use this basic ability, but you can't land criticals. My addition would be that using a weapon/basic ability you aren't proficient with / don't possess would mean you can actually miss, something that isn't possible otherwise.
In the end, I don't think it's much of a difference; I just suggest that using abilities would simplify things.
Also, I think that fluctuating d20 is just so darn useful!


(I'm assuming we'd lower the number of carried items to 5, since everyone in the party will have items.)

Good idea. Maybe it could be possible to expand that limit; also, I'd treat equipment as separate from that list.


This, by the way, assumes that all special attack badges are weapon-specific. This makes humans (and toads) extremely reliant on them. We may make it so that many special attack badges overlap weapon categories.

I'd imagine weapons are slightly more expensive than badges. They seemed pretty rare in the games. For now, I think we can stick to jump shoes, hammers, and shells.

If we go by abilities, then special abilities would plain and simply have these basic abilities as prerequisites. As such, it's indicated they can only be used in connection with that basic ability- Quake Hammer will, of course, always use a hammer (although you could arrange overlaps with certain abilities... Quake Shell! Quake Punch! Quake Bomb!)

Here's a suggestion: every attack other than a basic slam is an ability. The required equipment is still necessary, of course. Such attacks could be:
Jump, Shell, Hammer, Beam, Breath, Explosion, Leech, Projectile, Avalanche (for those huge enemies), Magic Zap...

From these, we could base more advanced techniques.



I'd give that one to anyone with flight, provided they're not stunned or something.

Hmmm... Okay, I'm convinced- no matter what idea we follow through on, there should be some abilities already present with every race. (Different point, yeah...) For example, Boos start with Float and Hide, Goombas get Headbutt and, hm, Scanner, and Humans get... a free basic ability / weapon proficiency of their choice, plus Jump; and Toads get Jump plus an additional item slot.

So, in short, every race starts out with two more or less pre-determined abilities. At the start, you could choose some additional ones, so that Boos don't stand there without any attack abilities at all!

And, you know what... Just because I feel like it, I'll write up how enemies might look like in this system.

Huff N. Puff

Level 10
HP: 60 FP: 25 ATK: 5 DEF: 0 BP: 6 STACHE: 4
Race: Tuff Puff; Position: 2x2, Flying; Speed: 4 squares
Abilities: Float, Slam, Magic Zap, Greater Attack x 4, Wind Gust, Thunder Storm, Summon Tuff Puff, Reduce Magic Cost x2, Absorb Summoned Creature, Auto-Summon, Large and in Charge, Swift Flyer, Advanced Machinery, Minion Magnet, Greater Minion Magnet, Minion Rush, Tuff Puff Rush (and more... if we go by 5 + 2 abilities per level, Huff N. Puff would have 23. So just think of two additional abilities Huff N. Puff could have. Maybe a hawk familiar. :smalltongue: )

Float: Freely change from ground to flying range.
Magic Zap: 1-10 hit, 11-20 critical; ignores defense upon critical
Wind Gust (cone 5 squares, (7-2=)5 FP, magic) 1-10 hit, 11-13 good, 13-16 great, 17-20 excellent; opponent can't counter or evade; hit = 1/2 ATK, round down; good = ATK, great = ATK x1,5, round down; excellent = ATK x2
Thunder Storm (circle 4 squares, range 5, (12-2=)10 FP, magic) 1-20 hit; opponent can't counter
Summon Tuff Puff (range 2, (2-2=)0 FP, magic): Place Tuff Puff within range
Absorb Summoned Creature (circle 6 squares, range 5, magic) Heal 1 for every summoned creature in area; destroy summoned creature afterwards
Auto-Summon (Tuff Puff exclusive): use Summon Tuff Puff for every point of damage, up to limit of 10 Tuff Puffs
Tuff Puff Rush (circle 6 squares, range 5, minions): 1-7 hit, 8-20 critical (Minion Magnet improves the chances); all Tuff Puffs in area join for the attack, robbing them of their own action; hit: regular attack; critical: regular attack + 1 for every Tuff Puff


Just an example of what could be possible. Of course, I didn't detail all the mentioned abilities (don't ask me what Minion Magnet does exactly!), but it's an example of how things could work: some central abilities, and many supporting abilities that give small bonus, such as Reduce Magic Cost or Greater Attack (which would obviously be not as easy to come by).

Geno9999
2010-04-09, 02:11 PM
I'm not entirely convinced about the stache stat, as in the M&L games, stache affected item prices and how often a critical occurred.
I'm going to try ripping off making an enemy...

Koopa Troop
Hp: 4, Fp: 3, Def: 1, Bp: 3
Attack(s):
Shell Slam (Shell), Pow: 1 or 2 (50% crit.) Attacks the first (or Front) enemy on the ground.
Shell Dash (Shell), Pow: 1-2 (25%), FP: 3. Attacks all enemies on the ground.
Weakness?: When attacked by a (Jump) move, this monster is stunned and Def is reduced by 1 and cannot do any actions until next turn.

Suggestions?

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-09, 07:31 PM
Hmmm, so we have a fixed "critical" range? How about changing that a bit? For example, with normal attacks, the critical chance is 50%, but the more powerful the ability, the more difficult it is to have one; for example, Quake Hammer only has a 30% chance.
But if we make criticals common, then they become what player expect and instead of rolling to crit, you're rolling to fail. I think it's more "fun" to make criticals uncommon.


I'm in favor of "roll any die you want as long as you roll better than half the best result" and then using granularity to get any probability we want. I'd have to make a table of probabilities...

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-09, 07:34 PM
I'm not entirely convinced about the stache stat, as in the M&L games, stache affected item prices and how often a critical occurred.
I'm going to try ripping off making an enemy...

Koopa Troop
Hp: 4, Fp: 3, Def: 1, Bp: 3
Attack(s):
Shell Slam (Shell), Pow: 1 or 2 (50% crit.) Attacks the first (or Front) enemy on the ground.
Shell Dash (Shell), Pow: 1-2 (25%), FP: 3. Attacks all enemies on the ground.
Weakness?: When attacked by a (Jump) move, this monster is stunned and Def is reduced by 1 and cannot do any actions until next turn.

Suggestions?

I wouldn't let monsters score criticals, and I'm not sure how I feel about giving monsters FP. Too complicated. Instead, they could just have a list of attacks with cooldowns, or just have some attacks that can't be used two turns in a row, or attacks that can only be used once you've taken a specific amount of damage.

Lord Raziere
2010-04-09, 08:01 PM
Sure, even the 3.5 DMG has a couple of tables like that.



They could also flail like a magikarp. Still does 1 damage. :smallwink:

my theory is that goombas have weak telekinetic abilities of which they can use to punch but not strong enough to stop people from jumping upon them; how do you think they can use items?

DarknessLord
2010-04-10, 03:09 PM
But if we make criticals common, then they become what player expect and instead of rolling to crit, you're rolling to fail. I think it's more "fun" to make criticals uncommon.
Indeed, think about it guys, let's say you have two abilities in like D&D, one hits on a 16+ and the other hits on a 6+, which one will rolling a 5 annoy you more on? And which one would be way more awesome to roll a 16 on?
For me at least, I would be much more annoyed with failing something so easy, and much happier with succeeding something so difficult. Plus we gottta make sure the enemies in this game can stand up to a party, so it's not like keeping action commands the as a base line will save us from having to re-balance stats simply taken from the games.



I'm in favor of "roll any die you want as long as you roll better than half the best result" and then using granularity to get any probability we want. I'd have to make a table of probabilities...

{table=head]Successes needed|1|2|3|4|5
Dice rolled|||||||
1|1/2|0|0|0|0
2|3/4|1/4|0|0|0
3|7/8|1/2|1/8|0|0
4|15/16|11/16|5/16|1/16|0
5|31/32|13/16|1/2|3/16|1/32
[/table]
I can go more then 5 dice if we need to, but 5 looks good to me.

Also, going off that table, what do people thing of a guard roll being 3 dice needing 2 successes (50%), while a counter needs 3 (12.5%)? Too high? Too low? Guard should only be 1 dice with 1 success for simplicity cause it has the same odds? Too early to say?

Also successes sounds pretty RPG stuffy to me (I like games that use successes, I do, but I don't feel like that fits the light-hearted tone that well), ideas on that?


I wouldn't let monsters score criticals, and I'm not sure how I feel about giving monsters FP. Too complicated. Instead, they could just have a list of attacks with cooldowns, or just have some attacks that can't be used two turns in a row, or attacks that can only be used once you've taken a specific amount of damage.
Agreed, heroes get FP, enemies get requirements, here is an attack example:
Name: Shake
Requirement: Can't be used in consequence turns.
Effect: 3 Damage to all ground and ceiling located heroes, flips shelled heroes.

Or something more familiar, but has a slightly exotic and flavorful requirement ...
Name: Shell Tower
Requirement: At least 1 other standing (non-flipped) Koopa Bro. Who hasn't used an action this turn.
Effect: All standing Koopa Bros. who have yet to take actions form the Shell Tower, and use it's tower attack.

I think the requirements can be a little strange, as long as they are clear (Shell tower might need a little re-wording but still).
Also I think that Thomar's general requirements are good ones to draw for the non-silly/exotic ones, although I would also add “requires charge” to it.

Zovc
2010-04-10, 03:19 PM
My opinions on action command dice, unless we need the versatility the d20 gives us

d12's are awesome.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-11, 01:52 AM
Thanks, DL. Here's the same table in percentages.
{table=head]Successes needed|1|2|3|4|5
Dice rolled|||||||
1|50%|0|0|0|0
2|75%|25%|0|0|0
3|88%|50%|13%|0|0
4|94%|67%|31%|6%|0
5|97%|81%|50%|19%|3%
[/table]


Plus we gottta make sure the enemies in this game can stand up to a party, so it's not like keeping action commands the as a base line will save us from having to re-balance stats simply taken from the games.
I wouldn't worry about that. In the games, you could be pulling off mostly-perfect action commands with two characters. In the tabletop RPG, you would have four characters doing normal attacks and only critting some of the time. I think it will work out just fine.


Also, going off that table, what do people thing of a guard roll being 3 dice needing 2 successes (50%), while a counter needs 3 (12.5%)? Too high? Too low? Guard should only be 1 dice with 1 success for simplicity cause it has the same odds? Too early to say?
I would make it a 1 BP badge with 25% success (compare it to Defense Plus,) and it would only reduce damage by 1 (or, rather, increase your Defense by 1 just for that attack.) And then, for every badge equipped, you could reduce damage by an additional point.


Also successes sounds pretty RPG stuffy to me (I like games that use successes, I do, but I don't feel like that fits the light-hearted tone that well), ideas on that?
Hmm... What about "good roll" and "bad roll"?
'A "good roll" on a six-sided die is a 4, 5, or 6. A "bad roll" is a 1, 2, or 3. See appendix 5 for a list of good and bad rolls for other kinds of dice.'

"Roll two dice. If both rolls are good, you heal 5 HP. If both rolls are bad, you are Shrunk for one round."


Agreed, heroes get FP, enemies get requirements, here is an attack example:
Name: Shake
Requirement: Can't be used in consequence turns.
Effect: 3 Damage to all ground and ceiling located heroes, flips shelled heroes.

Or something more familiar, but has a slightly exotic and flavorful requirement ...
Name: Shell Tower
Requirement: At least 1 other standing (non-flipped) Koopa Bro. Who hasn't used an action this turn.
Effect: All standing Koopa Bros. who have yet to take actions form the Shell Tower, and use it's tower attack.

I think the requirements can be a little strange, as long as they are clear (Shell tower might need a little re-wording but still).
Also I think that Thomar's general requirements are good ones to draw for the non-silly/exotic ones, although I would also add “requires charge” to it.

We could standardize them like this (some of these could also apply to badges, but most of them are intended to keep monsters from having FP:)
Danger: A move with the [Danger] descriptor cannot be used unless you are at half HP or lower.
Crisis: A [Crisis] move cannot be used unless you're at 5 HP or lower.
Cooldown: Moves with [Cooldown] cannot be used two turns in a row.
Retaliate: You can only use a [Retaliate] move on an enemy who damaged you last turn.
Random: If you want to use a [Random] move, first roll two dice. If both rolls are good, go ahead and use the move. If any roll is bad, you cannot use that move this turn.

Or we could include attack tables for some monsters like the 3.5 MM has round-by-round combat tables.
"Roll 4 dice, then refer to the following table of successes:
0: Breakdown: Arm falls off. All enemies on the ground take 1 damage and may be knocked down.
1: Chargin' Lazors: +4 Power to next attack.
2: Red Laser Beams: 4 damage to all enemies in the front row.
3: Blue Laser Punch: 4 damage to one enemy on the ground, this may knock an enemy over.
4: Super Duper Cannon: 4 damage to all enemies."

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-11, 02:24 AM
Here are some badges converted to the rules...

All Or Nothing
BP: 4
Effect: Whenever you use an attack that rolls two dice and needs two good rolls for a critical, it causes a critical with only 1 good roll. However, if you have 2 bad rolls, that attack misses.

Charge
BP: 1
Special: Spend 1 FP. Your next attack's Power is increased by 2.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Charge requires +1 FP and adds +1 Power to your next attack.

(One of the few P badges that makes sense in a party.)
Charge Partner
BP: 1
Special: Spend 1 FP and pick an ally. Your ally's next attack's Power is increased by 2.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Charge requires +1 FP and adds +1 Power to your ally's next attack.

Close Call
BP: 1
Effect: Whenever you are attacked and your HP is 5 or lower, roll two dice. If both rolls are good, the attack misses.

(This one is how we'll implement dodging.)
Damage Dodge
BP: 2
Effect: Whenever you are attacked, roll two dice. If both rolls are good, your Defense increases by 1 for that attack.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, your Defense bonus for Damage Dodge increases by +1.

(And this is how we'll implement countering.)
Counterattack
BP: 2
Effect: Whenever you are attacked by a melee move that only hits you, roll four dice. If all four rolls are successful, the move misses and your attacker takes 1 damage. This damage ignores Defense.
Multiple: You deal an extra point of damage for every additional badge equipped.

Defend Plus
BP: 5
Effect: Your Defense increases by +1.
Multiple: Your Defense increases by +1 for every extra badge equipped.

Double Dip
BP: 3
Special: Spend 4 FP. Use two items.
Multiple: If you have two Double Dip badges equipped, you may spend 8 FP to use three items.

Feeling Fine
BP: 4
Effect: You are immune to negative status ailments.

(What about calling weapon proficiencies "Classes" instead?)
Fire Drive
BP: 3
Class: Hammer, Unarmed
Special: Spend 5 FP. You damage every opponent in the front row on the ground with +1 Power, and damage every opponent in the back row on the ground at -1 Power. All damaged opponents are Burned for 3 turns.
Critical: Roll 2 dice. If both rolls are good, you damage the front row at +2 Power and the back row at +0 Power.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Fire Drive costs 5 FP more and its Power increases by +1.

Flower Finder
BP: 3
Effect: Whenever an enemy is knocked out, you regain 1 FP.

Flower Saver
BP: 4
Effect: Your special attacks cost -1 FP (minimum 1 FP.)
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, your special attacks' FP cost is lowered by another -1 (minimum 1 FP.)

FP Drain
BP: 1
Effect: All of your attacks deal -1 damage. Whenever you damage an enemy with an attack, you regain 1 FP.

FP Plus
BP: 3
Effect: Your maximum FP increases by +5.
Multiple: For every extra FP Plus badge, your maximum FP increases by +5.

Hammer Throw
BP: 1
Class: Hammer
Special: Spend 2 FP. Hammer Throw is just like a normal hammer attack, except it is a ranged attack that can hit flying enemies and enemies in the back row.
Critical: As a normal hammer attack
Multiple: For every extra Hammer Throw Badge equipped, Hammer Throw costs +2 FP and its Power increases by +1.

Happy Flower
BP: 2
Effect: Whenever you end your turn, roll one die. If the roll is good, you regain 1 FP.
Multiple: For every extra Happy Flower badge equipped, you regain +1 FP on a good roll.

Happy Heart
BP: 2
Effect: Whenever you end your turn, roll one die. If the roll is good, you regain 1 HP.
Multiple: For every extra Happy Heart badge equipped, you regain +1 HP on a good roll.

Happy Flower Partner
BP: 2
Effect: Whenever you end your turn, roll one die. If the roll is good, one of your allies regains 1 FP.
Multiple: For every extra Happy Flower Partner badge equipped, your ally regains +1 FP on a good roll.

Happy Heart Partner
BP: 2
Effect: Whenever you end your turn, roll one die. If the roll is good, one of your allies regains 1 HP.
Multiple: For every extra Happy Heart Partner badge equipped, your ally regains +1 HP on a good roll.

HP Drain
BP: 1
Effect: All of your attacks deal -1 damage. Whenever you damage an enemy with an attack, you regain 1 HP.

HP Plus
BP: 3
Effect: Your maximum FP increases by +5.
Multiple: For every extra HP Plus badge, your maximum FP increases by +5.

Ice Power
BP: 1
Effect: Your Power is increased by +1 whenever you hit a fire enemy. You can damage enemies with the Flame Tap ability, and don't take damage from touching them.

Ice Smash
BP: 1
Class: Hammer, Unarmed,
Special: Spend 3 FP. Ice Smash is just like a normal attack, but its Power is increased by +1 against fire enemies.
Critical: As a normal hammer attack. If you score a critical, your enemy is Frozen for 2 turns.
Multiple: For every extra Ice Smash Badge equipped, Ice Smash costs +3 FP and your enemies are frozen for +2 turns.

Last Stand
BP: 1
Effect: Whenever you are at 5 HP or lower, you take half damage (rounded up) from all attacks.

Lucky Day
BP: 7
Effect: Whenever you are attacked, roll 3 dice. If all rolls are good, the attack misses.

Pretty Lucky
BP: 2
Effect: Whenever you are attacked, roll 4 dice. If all rolls are good, the attack misses.

Lucky Start
BP: 4
Effect: Whenever you start a battle, roll 3 dice and use the effect on the list below.
0 Good: You become Dodgy for 3 turns.
1 Good: You regain 3 HP.
2 Good: You regain 3 FP.
3 Good: You gain the Zap Tap effect for 3 turns.

Mega Rush
BP: 1
Effect: Whenever you have only 1 HP, you gain +5 Power.

Multibounce
BP: 1
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Make a normal jump attack against all of your enemies. You can pick what order you attack them in, but you must hit all of the reachable enemies in the front row before starting on the back row. Your attacks end if you take any damage. You may choose not to attack particular enemies, but you cannot start on the back row until you have hit all enemies on the front row.
Critical: Roll for a critical against each enemy, as though making a normal jump attack.
Multiple: For every extra Multibounce equipped, you spend +2 FP and gain +1 Power.

Power Bounce
BP: 3
Class: Jump, Unarmed
Special: Spend 3 FP. Make a normal attack against one enemy, then roll two dice. If one roll is good, make another attack and roll again. Keep attacking until you get two failures.
Critical: None.
Multiple: For every extra Power Bounce equipped, you spend +3 FP and gain +1 Power.

P-Down D-Up
BP: 2
Effect: You gain +1 Defense, but -1 Power.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you gain +1 Defense but -1 Power.

P-Up D-Down
BP: 2
Effect: You gain +1 Power, but -1 Defense.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you gain +1 Power but -1 Defense.

Peekabo
BP: 2
Effect: You can see your enemies' current HP and maximum HP.

Piercing Blow
BP: 2
Class: Hammer, Unarmed
Special: Spend 2 FP. Piercing Blow is just like a normal hammer attack, except you ignore your enemy's Defense.
Critical: As a normal hammer attack.
Multiple: For every extra Piercing Blow equipped, you spend +2 FP and gain +1 Power.

Pity Flower
BP: 3
Effect: Whenever you take damage, you regain 1 FP.

Power Jump
BP: 1
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. You may make a normal jump attack against one enemy at +1 Power.
Critical: Double your Power for this attack.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you spend +2 FP and gain +1 Power.

Power Rush
BP: 1
Effect: Whenever you are at 5 HP or lower, you gain +2 Power.
Multiple: For every extra Power Rush badge equipped, you gain another +2 Power.

Power Smash
BP: 1
Class: Jump, Unarmed
Special: Spend 2 FP. You may make a normal attack against one enemy at +1 Power.
Critical: Double your Power for this attack.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you spend +2 FP and gain +1 Power.

Quake Hammer
BP: 2
Class: Hammer
Special: Spend 3 FP. You hit all enemies on the ceiling and ground. This attack may knock enemies over or dislodge them from the ceiling.
Critical: You gain +1 Power against all enemies for this attack.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you spend +3 FP and gain +1 Power.

Quick Change
BP: 4
Effect: You can switch between the front row and back row without wasting your turn. You can only do this at the start of your turn.

Refund
BP: 1
Effect: Whenever you use an item in combat, you regain one half its normal selling price (minimum 1 coin.)

Return Postage
BP: 7
Effect: You permanently have the Payback status effect. (If an enemy damages you, he or she takes half as much damage as you did.)

Power Plus
BP: 6
Effect: Your Power increases by +1.
Multiple: Your Power increases by +1 for every extra badge equipped.

Shrink Stomp
BP: 1
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Shrink Stomp is just like a normal jump attack.
Critical: As a normal jump attack. If you score a critical, your enemy is Tiny for 3 turns.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Shrink Stomp costs +2 FP and your enemy is Tiny for +3 turns.

Sleepy Stomp
BP: 1
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Sleepy Stomp is just like a normal jump attack.
Critical: As a normal jump attack. If you score a critical, your enemy falls Asleep for 3 turns.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Sleepy Stomp costs +2 FP and your enemy is Asleep +3 turns.

Soft Stomp
BP: 1
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Soft Stomp is just like a normal jump attack.
Critical: As a normal jump attack. If you score a critical, your enemy suffers Defense Down -2 for 2 turns.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Soft Stomp costs +2 FP and your enemy suffers Defense Down for +2 turns.

Spike Shield
BP: 3
Effect: You don't take damage when attacking Spiky enemies, and can attack them normally.

Tornado Jump
BP: 3
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 3 FP. Make a normal jump attack against one enemy, then deal 1 damage (ignore Defense) to all flying enemies.
Critical: As a normal jump attack, and you deal +1 damage to flying enemies.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Tornado Jump costs +3 FP, you gain +1 Power, you deal +1 damage to flying enemies, and you deal +1 damage to flying enemies if you score a critical hit.

Zap Tap
BP: 4
Effect: You gain the Zap Tap status effect permanently.

Dizzy Stomp
BP: 1
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Dizzy Stomp is just like a normal jump attack.
Critical: As a normal jump attack. If you score a critical, your enemy is Dizzy for 2 turns.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Dizzy Stomp costs +2 FP and your enemy is Dizzy for +2 turns.


I think we should make all of the racial abilities (besides basics) their own badges. There's little point in making humans and toads the only characters who need to pay for badges and weapons.

Wings
BP: 4
Race: Koopa, Goomba, Yoshi
Effect: You can fly with little effort. In combat, you can only be hit by ranged attacks, jump attacks, or other flying enemies.

Vanish
BP: 2
Race: Boo
Special: Spend 2 FP. You or one of your allies becomes Invisible for 1 turn.
Critical: Your ally becomes Invisible for an additional turn.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Vanish costs +2 FP and your ally is Invisible for an additional turn.

Geno9999
2010-04-11, 07:52 AM
I wouldn't let monsters score criticals, and I'm not sure how I feel about giving monsters FP. Too complicated. Instead, they could just have a list of attacks with cooldowns, or just have some attacks that can't be used two turns in a row, or attacks that can only be used once you've taken a specific amount of damage.

Okay, so using the Koopa example...

HP: 4
DEF: 1
POW: 2 (Shell), attacks the front unit on the ground
Special Attack: Shell Dash (Shell); This monster attacks all "Ground" units. Cooldown: 2 turns
Other Effects: If this monster is attacked by a "Jump" Attack, this monster is stunned for 2 turns, and DEF is reduced by 1.

And then if we want more powerful Koopas...

Dizzy Koopa
HP: 8
DEF: 2
POW: 4 (Shell), attacks the front unit on the ground
Special Attack: Shell Twister (Shell); A normal attack that deals a "Dizzy" Effect on a successful hit. Cooldown: 2 turns.
Other Effects: If this monster is attacked by a "Jump" Attack, this monster is stunned for 2 turns, and DEF is reduced by 1.

Hyper Koopa
HP: 8
DEF: 2
POW: 4 (Shell), attacks the front unit on the ground
Special Attack: Charge; This unit can spend one turn charging, increasing it's next attack by 4.
Other Effects: If this monster is attacked by a "Jump" Attack, this monster is stunned for 2 turns, and DEF is reduced by 1.

Forever Curious
2010-04-11, 05:25 PM
I have nothing to add at the moment, but i like where this is going.

DarknessLord
2010-04-11, 10:54 PM
I wouldn't worry about that. In the games, you could be pulling off mostly-perfect action commands with two characters. In the tabletop RPG, you would have four characters doing normal attacks and only critting some of the time. I think it will work out just fine.

Not entirely convinced, on this, but I'm not sure it's wrong either, however I would like to point out that the games were balanced, with a lot more enemies per level then would really be fun in a table-top RPG adventure, and were thereby designed to wear down the PC's resources slower then a table-top game normally would.
This COULD be fine, in that the main way a game would work would be a few short battles, maybe some puzzles which make use of the Party's racial skills, and then epic show down with boss/demi-boss with most of the party's resources intact (to be fair, the games did give you heart blocks before boss battles)
OR we could decide that minions should be a reasonable hazard for our heroes, and make them tougher to compensate for the fact that a GM is not gonna throw 5~8 battles at you when you are walking from one town to another.

Other then that stuff looks good so I am gonna look into some other areas.

Turn Order:
At the start of battle, each hero rolls a die, and the GM rolls a die for each enemy in the battle, whichever side gets the most total Good results gets the first strike and takes their actions first, the heroes win ties, badges and/or the abilities of enemies may add more dice to one side or another. If one side sets up an ambush before the battle, or otherwise catches the other side unaware, they go first automatically. Particularly clever ambushes set up by the heroes may earn them bonus actions at the start of combat in addition to their regular turn, at the GM's discretion. Once one side as used (or passed) all their actions it becomes the other sides turn.

On their turn, the enemies go in a fixed order chosen by the GM when the battle starts, if new enemies are added to the battle later, the GM can put them anywhere he or she likes in the order on the enemies' next turn.

On the heroes' turn, the heroes can go in any order they agree on, and unlike the enemies' turn, this can change every turn, however, if they are unable to quickly agree (IE, after all sides have stated why they think someone should go first), the GM retains the right to pick who is going next by any method he or she wishes. A KO'd, stunned, or sleeping hero who is cured may take an action on that same turn.

Italics represent the things I am not sure about, I think it will speed things up if enemies always go in the same order, but it might be simpler to let both sides go in any order, and I generally think that since an action was (theoretically) spent to cure the hero, giving the cured one their action might be okay.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-11, 11:47 PM
I think that a party of 4ish is more powerful than a party of two, and since they'll all be using the same star points they'll be levelling faster. I would leave the game's stats exactly as they are, and only simplify things to make the game go faster.

Also, parties will be packing a lot of varied special abilities, and their endurance will only be limited by their stock of consumable items. I actually think that adding save points or healing blocks or whatever would break the flow and hurt players who invest money in consumables when they could be buying badges and good equipment.

For the combat rules, I would let the GM pick whatever order he or she wants, and just suggest to pick the order at the start of combat. Players should act in whatever order they want, and if there's an argument they can just roll dice against each other to decide. I think it's a very good idea to let players revived on their turn act immediately (it's not fun to be MIA.)

Geno9999
2010-04-12, 04:29 PM
Yeah, a party of four is defiantly better than a party of two at any given time. The group is probably isn't hindered by changing partners, and they can have one person in the back could use items to heal the guy on first. Of course, this could be countered by the fact that the GM could have them fight against 8 Koopa troops at once. OR send in Fuzzies that multiple EVERY. SINGLE. TURN. Giant exp well though.:smallcool:

As for combat order, I think GM sets up Enemy order, while the players has a more freeform order, like "If Goombario flips Koopa Troop 1, I will use Shell Dash", other wise, it goes in order of posting.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-13, 01:45 AM
What does everyone think about making weapon proficiencies badges too? On the one hand, it's fun to have customized characters. On the other hand, it's a whole lot simpler to dump everything onto the badge system.

Maybe we could add a skill system that lets characters pick up an extra attribute every 5 levels? (Things like +1 Power, flight, new weapon proficiency, spikiness, etc. The game had you find new weapons and power up partners by collecting shines or finding power blocks, I guess this could be a gameish way to do it.)

Lord Raziere
2010-04-13, 01:48 AM
What does everyone think about making weapon proficiencies badges too?

nah.

"I don't know how to wield a hammer!"
"you just grip it and swing it, whats there to learn?"
"I don't have the badge!"
"you need a badge to learn how to wield a hammer?" 0.o

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-13, 01:48 AM
nah.

"I don't know how to wield a hammer!"
"you just grip it and swing it, whats there to learn?"
"I don't have the badge!"
"you need a badge to learn how to wield a hammer?" 0.o

Sorry, I edited again. I do that a lot, don't I? :smallfrown:

Lord Raziere
2010-04-13, 01:51 AM
a skill system for that kinda stuff sounds good.

kinda like how you decide what to upgrade whenever mario went up a level after a battle, except a little expanded so instead of just HP, FP and BP, you could also choose to boost your attack, defense or acquire an extra ability/ weapon proficiency.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-13, 12:46 PM
So, at levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30, you can pick one of the following (in addition to your normal level-up stat boost:)


Gain a new attack type (Jump, Unarmed, Shell Kick, Wand, Hammer, or Ranged.)
Gain +1 Power.
Gain +1 Defense.
Gain +10 HP.
Gain +10 FP.
Gain +6 BP.
Gain +5 HP, +5 FP, and +3 BP
Increase your inventory space by +5 items.
Gain wings (if Goomba, Yoshi, or Koopa.) Wings let you use a turn to start flying, making you immune to hammer, shell, unarmed and other ground-based attacks (though you don't get to hit people with shell and unarmed attacks unless you take special attacks that let you.) If you are hit by a Jump or Unarmed attack, you fall and may be knocked over (Koopa.)
Gain spiked armor. This makes you immune to Jump attacks, and anyone hitting you with an Unarmed or Jump attack takes 1 damage for each attack.
Gain immunity to fire, ice, or electricity.


Any more ideas?

Lord Raziere
2010-04-13, 05:33 PM
what about Spear as an attack type? those shy guys on that island had them, the toad guards had them, so why not?

also lakitus: don't forget about them, maybe they should fly and naturally gain ranged weapon proficiency since they throw spinies at people...
perhaps at higher levels the lakitu's spiny-throwing ability can be some kind of summon to throw out spinies to fight for them.

DarknessLord
2010-04-13, 07:27 PM
what about Spear as an attack type? those shy guys on that island had them, the toad guards had them, so why not?

also lakitus: don't forget about them, maybe they should fly and naturally gain ranged weapon proficiency since they throw spinies at people...
perhaps at higher levels the lakitu's spiny-throwing ability can be some kind of summon to throw out spinies to fight for them.
Spears seem fine to me.
Laitus are a koopa evolution, I'd make it something you pick up after wings, like you trade in your wings and shell for a cloud (permanent flight) and spiny throw, maybe pick up a badge or a ability for minions (this is just off the top of my head here).



So, at levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30, you can pick one of the following (in addition to your normal level-up stat boost:)


Gain a new attack type (Jump, Unarmed, Shell Kick, Wand, Hammer, or Ranged.)
Gain +1 Power.
Gain +1 Defense.
Gain +10 HP.
Gain +10 FP.
Gain +6 BP.
Gain +5 HP, +5 FP, and +3 BP
Increase your inventory space by +5 items.
Gain wings (if Goomba, Yoshi, or Koopa.)* Wings let you use a turn to start flying, making you immune to hammer, shell, unarmed and other ground-based attacks (though you don't get to hit people with shell and unarmed attacks unless you take special attacks that let you.)* If you are hit by a Jump or Unarmed attack, you fall and may be knocked over (Koopa.)
Gain spiked armor.* This makes you immune to Jump attacks, and anyone hitting you with an Unarmed or Jump attack takes 1 damage for each attack.
Gain immunity to fire, ice, or electricity.


Any more ideas?
I kinda like the idea of gaining something like an innate ability from one of you badges, something like "A badge of your choice no longer costs BP to equip, if it is a 6 BP or less badge, abilities it gives you cost half (round down) their normal FP value to use."

Anyways, on that subject:
Star Points:
As the heroes defeat foes and win battles, they earn Star Points. For every 100 star points earned, the heroes gain a level. Star Points are collected in one pool for all the heroes, so they are always the same level and level up at the same time.

Each enemy has a Star Point value ((We'll figure out these later)), when they are KOed they put that many star points minus the Heroes' level (this can never go below 0) into the reward pool. Even if there are enough Star Points in the reward pool for the heroes to level up, still give Star Point awards at their CURRENT level. Once the heroes win the battle, they get all the Star Points in the reward pool, if they run away from the battle they do not get ANY Star Points, and the reward pool is emptied.* If the heroes win and the reward pool is empty (due to enemies fleeing or them being too weak to give them Star Points) the Heroes still get a single Star Point.

---

Minus their level seems like an easy way to get star point rewards to scale and keep with each level =100 star points, although I also am considering half their level (rounded down, probably) as well

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-14, 11:11 PM
I kinda like the idea of gaining something like an innate ability from one of you badges, something like "A badge of your choice no longer costs BP to equip, if it is a 6 BP or less badge, abilities it gives you cost half (round down) their normal FP value to use."
I feel like that could be more of a free-form option. Say you get 6 BP worth of badges permanently.


Star Points:
As the heroes defeat foes and win battles, they earn Star Points. For every 100 star points earned, the heroes gain a level. Star Points are collected in one pool for all the heroes, so they are always the same level and level up at the same time.

Each enemy has a Star Point value ((We'll figure out these later)), when they are KOed they put that many star points minus the Heroes' level (this can never go below 0) into the reward pool. Even if there are enough Star Points in the reward pool for the heroes to level up, still give Star Point awards at their CURRENT level. Once the heroes win the battle, they get all the Star Points in the reward pool, if they run away from the battle they do not get ANY Star Points, and the reward pool is emptied.* If the heroes win and the reward pool is empty (due to enemies fleeing or them being too weak to give them Star Points) the Heroes still get a single Star Point.

---

Minus their level seems like an easy way to get star point rewards to scale and keep with each level =100 star points, although I also am considering half their level (rounded down, probably) as well
Do it like the games did. If you can find a good strategy guide, you'll...

http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/n64/papermario/starpoints.shtml

Uh oh. It doesn't follow a formula! :smalleek:

Okay, we'll have to figure it out... I think that using the level 1 star points minus your level per monster is fine.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-19, 10:42 AM
Okay, I think we have enough to make a compiled document (or at least start one in a new thread.) In what order are we going to put the chapters together?

Geno9999
2010-04-19, 04:38 PM
Okay, I think we have enough to make a compiled document (or at least start one in a new thread.) In what order are we going to put the chapters together?

I think the chapters are really up to the GM, as the chapters ended with a boss battle and a new Star Spirit/Crystal/Pure Heart.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-04-20, 01:28 AM
I think the chapters are really up to the GM, as the chapters ended with a boss battle and a new Star Spirit/Crystal/Pure Heart.

Huh? Oh, no, I meant a document or sourcebook. I'm partial to this ordering:


Introduction
System Overview
Races
Badges
Items and Equipment
Extras (just things to customize characters)
Monsters

DarknessLord
2010-04-20, 08:48 PM
Okay, I think we have enough to make a compiled document (or at least start one in a new thread.) In what order are we going to put the chapters together?

Heh, I was gonna get on that, except I got a bunch of tests this week, order looks fine to me, I'll help more once I have free time again.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-05-17, 08:24 PM
Anybody still up for this? I wouldn't mind trying a play-by-post game.

BLiZme.2
2010-05-18, 04:30 AM
Just last week my brother and I play tested this (some work (race balance items costs) was and IMO still is needs it but) It was awesome the worst thing is flipping a Kopa hero is insanely annoying the solution? Ad hock I added an item( not written in the compilation) the Sprongy spring cost 3 coins whenever a hero has one in there inventory and are flipped they may un flip themselves at the end of there opponents turn this breaks the spring I will post my completion later today.

BLiZme.2
2010-05-19, 04:58 AM
A promised

Introduction

Coming some time

some one should right up a good intro

basic notes for further system work

There are no classes. Instead, the race is a class. Advancing means gaining new abilities, and all races can choose from one big pool of abilities, with certain limits, of course. For example, getting wings is limited to Koopas and Goombas and others; not all characters can get Spikes; not all can get defense-nullifying attacks. Of course, these abilities are tied to minimum requirements;.
Everyone starts with a basic Slam(does not miss) attack(ground), which does nothing on a critical. For stuff like hammer or jump, the corresponding abilities have to be learned (or come with your race). If people try to do stuff they haven't learnt yet, but which is plausible, the results change: role 2 dice two bad results means failure (which normally is right out), any thing else means normal success, a critical is not possible.

Attacks can only NOT hit when a) the enemy uses something to introduce a miss chance, such as certain badges or status effects, b) the enemy has the ability to block- still hitting, but increasing the defense, c) the enemy has the ability to evade, d) the enemy has the ability to counter.

stuff we need to think about when working on and assessing stuff much of this is redundant included for completeness.


System Overview

System
It doesn't matter what die you roll, just roll anything on the better half of the numbers for that die. So 3+ on a d4, 5+ on a d8, and 11+ on a d20. For more advanced probabilities, you roll X dice and Y successes is the good result.
positioning is limited to one of 4 areas front, back, air, ceiling, it keeps it simple, gives proper benefits to critters that can fly/float/climb, and still allows for the stuff like “your hammer/shell/ whatever won't reach that high.”
Anybody can throw a punch. If you've got a Power stat higher than 0, you can use it. However, an untrained punch can't land a critical hit. (Trained can, of course, for double damage.)

Same goes for weapons. You can use any weapon at your Power, but you can't land criticals. (all weapons only hit one opponent and have no special effect (except on a crit),) Also, if you're not proficient with the weapon, it takes up space in your inventory (so backups really shouldn't be worth lugging around.) You also cannot use a badge that requires the weapon.

This assumes that all special attack badges are weapon-specific. This makes humans (and toads) extremely reliant on them. Many special attack badges overlap weapon categories

(The number of carried items is 5, since everyone in the party will have items.) (each character can deposit 15 items at a shop and have them available at any other)

I'd imagine weapons are slightly more expensive than badges. They seemed pretty rare in the games. For now, I think we can stick to jump shoes(hit a second charicter on the ground or in the air on a crit), hammers,spears,slinhshots and shells.
{TABLE]Successes needed |1| 2| 3| 4| 5
Dice rolled|||||
1| ½| 0| 0| 0| 0
2| ¾| 1/4| 0| 0| 0
3| 7/8| 1/2| 1/8| 0| 0
4| 15/16| 11/16| 5/16| 1/16| 0
5| 31/32| 13/16| 1/2| 3/16| 1/32
[/TABLE]

the same table in percentages.
{TABLE]Successes needed| 1| 2| 3| 4 |5
Dice rolled|||||
1| 50%| 0| 0| 0| 0
2| 75%| 25%| 0| 0| 0
3| 88%| 50%| 13%| 0| 0
4| 94%| 67%| 31%| 6%| 0
5| 97%| 81%| 50%| 19%| 3%
[/TABLE]
{a guard roll is role 3 dice needing 2 good roles (50%), while a counter needs 3 (12.5%) (both are badges you can not both attempt to counter and doge)} both of these are badges

Turn Order:
At the start of battle, each hero rolls a die, and the GD rolls a die for each enemy in the battle, whichever side gets the most total Good results gets the first strike and takes their actions first, the heroes win ties, badges and/or the abilities of enemies may add more dice to one side or another. If one side sets up an ambush before the battle, or otherwise catches the other side unaware, they go first automatically. Particularly clever ambushes set up by the heroes may earn them bonus actions at the start of combat in addition to their regular turn, at the GD's discretion (some of one side may get an action when others do not at GD discretion). Once one side has used (or passed) all their actions it becomes the other sides turn.

On the heroes' turn, the heroes can go in any order they agree on, and unlike the enemies' turn, this can change every turn, however, if they are unable to quickly agree (IE, after all sides have stated why they think someone should go first), the GM retains the right to pick who is going next by any method he or she wishes. A KO'd, stunned, or sleeping hero who is cured may take an action on that same turn.

parties will be packing a lot of varied special abilities, and their endurance will only be limited by their stock of consumable items. adding save points or healing blocks would break the flow and hurt players who invest money in consumables when they could be buying badges and good equipment.

We need descriptors and states conditions like poison (persistent damage) fear(cant attack), quake (descriptive float and fly make you immune), zap tap (immune to electricity do damage when touched), ranged (shows attack is from a distance), flip (attack flips shelled characters), stomp(attack is vulnerable to spikes), spike (hurts users of stomp attacks), ect

Races and character creation

Start with : 10 HP 5 FP, 3 BP, 1 POW, 0 DEF) then adds in their race (the Koopa's shell, the Bob-omb's ability to explode, a Boo's floating and invisibility power ect).

Start with 20 points 10 points = 1 POW or DEF 1 point =1 HP or FP and 5 points for 3 BP or 10 for one and only 1 other ability in the tier boost list that you qualify four (if you get a bonas ability from your race it dose not count for this limit)

•Bob-omb - Natural slam attack that does double damage on a critical hit(ground). and an explosion(ground) for 3*POW that damages you for 2*POW and stun for 3 rounds(can reduce stun and damage as BP abilities)
Special attacks include high-damage explosions and multi-hit bomb barrages.

•Boo - Float(imune to powers withe the quake key word). Natural attack is a lick that causes fear (no atack) effect for 1 turn on a critical hit (ground). invisibility (may make self invisible for 1 round as your action for 1fp)(advanced invisibility as BP abilitys and or badges.)
Special attacks include status effects like paralyze, poison, and fear.

•Cheep-Cheep - Can swim, Bounce(you can role 2 dice if both are good doge any quake effect). Natural attack is a flying slam that grants a second attack on the same target (ground)(second attack can crit ect) on a critical{this amortizes to slightly less than POW*2 damage over the long run and DEF affects each strike in play tests so far this has not been unbalanced}.
Special attacks include water-element ranged attacks and water-element AOE effects.

•Goomba - Natural attack is a headbonk(air or ground) that hits two targets(one in your zone or the back or 1 twice) on a critical. and tattle. Luck Of The Loser (role 5 dice if they are all good the attack misis you can succeed at this role once per combat you can chose not to role)
Special attacks include Power-boost and multi-hit attacks.

•??Human - jump(air ceiling or ground)(hits a second target within one zone of the primary target on a crit {may be primary target}), and an ability/weapon proficiency (probably something anyone can take when levelling up in place of a stat boost, but humans can start with it.) Probably relies more on equipment than any other race.

•Koopa - +1 defense from the shell, but can be knocked down(must spend one turn to right self -1 DEF while flipped{can learn an ability to stand for free at the start of heroes turn}).Shell attack is a ground-based attack that does double damage on a critical(ground). Luck Of The Loser (role 5 dice if they are all good the attack misis you can succeed at this role once per combat you can chose not to role)
Special attacks include Defense-boost and AOE ground attacks.

•Shy-Guy - Has a slingshot(ranged)(air ceiling or ground) that causes dizzying(role two dice if both are bad the atack missis) on a critical(3 turns). always act on the surprise round.
Special attacks would be off-the-wall and extremely random.
there attack and power are both quite powerful
over all odds of a miss when dizzy for 2 and 3 turns
{TABLE]number of misses|Number of roles out of 2|Number of roles out of 3|
|chance to miss exactley|chance to miss at least|chance to miss exactley|chance to miss at least
1| 38% |43.7500%| 42%| 58%
2| 6.2500% |6.2500%| 14%| 16%
3| 0% |0%| 1.5625%| 2%
[/TABLE]


•?Toad – toss a ranged attack doing X2 damage on a crit(ranged)(air ceiling or ground). and (2 number uncertain) bonus item slots and (+3 BP uncertain).
Special attacks include healing and item boosting (double effect from mushrooms and things like that.)

•Yoshi - Ground pound enemies with a jump attack (same as a human) that hits two targets on a critical hit.Defense-piercing Gulp attack (4FP targets 2 ground targets for pow damage and ignors defense. +1 damage on a crit).
Special attacks include a wide range of AOE elemental attacks and powerup produssing Gulp attack.
(there should be two ability/badge trees for jumping one gives you more strength vs 1 target the other gives you many targets Yoshi’s like the 1 target ground pond tree humans like the multi jump tree usually)

•Buzzy Betle- +1 defense from the shell, but can be knocked down(same as kopa). Shell attack is a ground/ceiling (can target cealing or ground if on cealing, ground only when on ground)-based attack that does double damage on a critical. Climb (takes a turn to climb up under most circumstances)(any attack that hits even if it dose no damage sends you to the ground (and flips you) unless you have an ability to stay on the ceiling or negate flipping in a fall).
Special attacks include Defense-boost and AOE ground attacks.

Pick a quirk

other races
•Doogan (I have no idea how good they'd be in combat, they seem peaceful) (probably have badge based powers like al badges cost 1 less FP min 0 unlike flowersaver which is min 1)
•Nomadimouse
•Penguin (admit it, ice attacks are cool)
•Pianta
•Puni
•Ratooey (peaceful just like Doogans)
•Shaman (might be human?)

we need write-ups for special abilities and conditions also until we work out the issues with abilities see below I see now way of making the human racial ability balanced. when rebalancing the races it was my general tendency to increase everyone power so that each race could have a unique attack as well as a basic form of all of there abilities you may note that some attacks are obviously better than others this is intentional and intended to balance with the races other special abilities (I generally think LA is a bad idea but if we do end up using it I think your la levels should count towards reaching tier so a race with la 5 is automatically tier 2 and has one tier ability at creation on top of his starting abilities).

Leval Up

special abilities have basic abilities as prerequisites. they can only be used in connection with that basic ability
Every attack other than a basic slam is an ability. The required equipment is still necessary, of course.
At level-up. You can get 5 HP or 5 FP or 3 BP.

[At level you can spend permanent badge points to pick up one ability or weapon proficiency. If you are not proficient then you can miss if all your roles to hit are bad and you cant crit or use special qualities]suggested change see below

At levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30… you can pick one of the following (in addition to your normal level-up stat boost:)
•Gain +1 Power.
•Gain +1 Defense.
•Gain +10 HP.
•Gain +10 FP.
•Gain +6 BP.
•Gain +5 HP, +5 FP, and +3 BP
•Increase your inventory space by +5 items.
•[Gain a new attack type (Jump(two hits on a crit same zone air or ground), Unarmed, Shell Kick, Wand, Hammer(x2 DAMAGE), or Ranged(any zone but back).) {firebreath as a no-FP attack(min one damage 1 turn burn on crit)} maybe not this] may need to be moved down to a normal ability.
•[Gain Flight (if Cheep-Cheep wings, Goomba wings, Yoshi wings, or Koopa wings, ShyGuy copter pack.) Flight lets you use a turn to start flying, making you immune to hammer, shell, unarmed and other ground-based attacks. If you are hit by a Jump or Unarmed attack, you fall to the front and may be knocked over if hit twice (Koopa.) also all of your touch ground attacks can now hit air target as well]may need to be moved down to a normal ability
•Gain spiked armor (Goomba or Koopa). This makes you immune to Jump attacks, and anyone hitting you with an Unarmed or Jump attack takes 1 damage for each attack.
•Gain immunity to fire, ice, or electricity.
•Gain zap fire or ice tap if you have the matching immunity

Star Points:
As the heroes defeat foes and win battles, they earn Star Points. For every 100 star points earned, the heroes gain a level. Star Points are collected in one pool for all the heroes, so they are always the same level and level up at the same time.

Each enemy has a Star Point value ((We'll figure out these later)), when they are KOed they put that many star points minus the Heroes' level (this can never go below 0) into the reward pool. Even if there are enough Star Points in the reward pool for the heroes to level up, still give Star Point awards at their CURRENT level. Once the heroes win the battle, they get all the Star Points in the reward pool, if they run away from the battle they do not get ANY Star Points, and the reward pool is emptied.* If the heroes win and the reward pool is empty (due to enemies fleeing or them being too weak to give them Star Points) the Heroes still get a single Star Point.

as the thread reads there are two kinds of abilities one that can be earned at level up and on that can be earned at tier increases I like this distinction as it allows us to have abilities that are stronger than others (tier abilities are {usually} better)and if we go with my suggestion that you can learn one level up ability (hereafter referred to as a level ability as distinct from a tier ability) per level and they all (level abilities) have a cost in permanent BP then we can have a wide variety of power levels between both kinds of Ability and still maintain balance. The problem is that then we need to right level abilities also this way we can make mechanically better weapons and still have them be balanced by making the proficiency cost more permanent BP

Badges

All Or Nothing
BP: 4
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you use an attack that rolls two dice and needs two good rolls for a critical, it causes a critical with only 1 good roll. However, if you have 2 bad rolls, that attack misses.

Charge
BP: 1
Coins:
Special: Spend 1 FP. Your next attack's Power is increased by 2.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Charge requires +1 FP and adds +1 Power to your next attack.

(One of the few P badges that makes sense in a party.)
Charge Partner
BP: 1
Coins:
Special: Spend 1 FP and pick an ally. Your ally's next attack's Power is increased by 2.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Charge requires +1 FP and adds +1 Power to your ally's next attack.

Close Call
BP: 1
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you are attacked and your HP is 5 or lower, roll two dice. If both rolls are good, the attack misses.

(This one is how we'll implement dodging.)
Damage Dodge
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you are attacked, roll two dice. If both rolls are good, your Defense increases by 1 for that attack.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, your Defense bonus for Damage Dodge increases by +1.

(And this is how we'll implement countering.)
Counterattack
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you are attacked by a melee move that only hits you, roll four dice. If all four rolls are successful, the move misses and your attacker takes 1 damage. This damage ignores Defense.
Multiple: You deal an extra point of damage for every additional badge equipped.

Defend Plus
BP: 5
Coins:
Effect: Your Defense increases by +1.
Multiple: Your Defense increases by +1 for every extra badge equipped.

Double Dip
BP: 3
Coins:
Special: Spend 4 FP. Use two items.
Multiple: If you have two Double Dip badges equipped, you may spend 8 FP to use three items.

Feeling Fine
BP: 4
Coins:
Effect: You are immune to negative status ailments.

Fire Drive
BP: 3
Coins:
Class: Hammer, Unarmed
Special: Spend 5 FP. You damage every opponent in the front row on the ground with +1 Power, and damage every opponent in the back row on the ground at -1 Power. All damaged opponents are Burned for 3 turns.
Critical: Roll 2 dice. If both rolls are good, you damage the front row at +2 Power and the back row at +0 Power.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Fire Drive costs 5 FP more and its Power increases by +1.

Flower Finder
BP: 3
Coins:
Effect: Whenever an enemy is knocked out, you regain 1 FP.

Flower Saver
BP: 4
Coins:
Effect: Your special attacks cost -1 FP (minimum 1 FP.)
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, your special attacks' FP cost is lowered by another -1 (minimum 1 FP.)

FP Drain
BP: 1
Coins:
Effect: All of your attacks deal -1 damage. Whenever you damage an enemy with an attack, you regain 1 FP.

FP Plus
BP: 3
Coins:
Effect: Your maximum FP increases by +5.
Multiple: For every extra FP Plus badge, your maximum FP increases by +5.

Hammer Throw
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Hammer
Special: Spend 2 FP. Hammer Throw is just like a normal hammer attack, except it is a ranged attack that can hit flying enemies, enemies on the ceiling and enemies in the back row.
Critical: As a normal hammer attack
Multiple: For every extra Hammer Throw Badge equipped, Hammer Throw costs +2 FP and its Power increases by +1.

Happy Flower
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you end your turn, roll one die. If the roll is good, you regain 1 FP.
Multiple: For every extra Happy Flower badge equipped, you regain +1 FP on a good roll.

Happy Heart
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you end your turn, roll one die. If the roll is good, you regain 1 HP.
Multiple: For every extra Happy Heart badge equipped, you regain +1 HP on a good roll.

Happy Flower Partner
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you end your turn, roll one die. If the roll is good, one of your allies regains 1 FP.
Multiple: For every extra Happy Flower Partner badge equipped, your ally regains +1 FP on a good roll.

Happy Heart Partner
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you end your turn, roll one die. If the roll is good, one of your allies regains 1 HP.
Multiple: For every extra Happy Heart Partner badge equipped, your ally regains +1 HP on a good roll.

HP Drain
BP: 1
Coins:
Effect: All of your attacks deal -1 damage. Whenever you damage an enemy with an attack, you regain 1 HP.

HP Plus
BP: 3
Coins:
Effect: Your maximum FP increases by +5.
Multiple: For every extra HP Plus badge, your maximum FP increases by +5.

Ice Power
BP: 1
Coins:
Effect: Your Power is increased by +1 whenever you hit a fire enemy. You can damage enemies with the Flame Tap ability, and don't take damage from touching them.

Ice Smash
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Hammer, Unarmed,
Special: Spend 3 FP. Ice Smash is just like a normal attack, but its Power is increased by +1 against fire enemies.
Critical: As a normal hammer attack. If you score a critical, your enemy is Frozen for 2 turns.
Multiple: For every extra Ice Smash Badge equipped, Ice Smash costs +3 FP and your enemies are frozen for +2 turns.

Last Stand
BP: 1
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you are at 5 HP or lower, you take half damage (rounded up) from all attacks.

Lucky Day
BP: 7
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you are attacked, roll 3 dice. If all rolls are good, the attack misses.

Pretty Lucky
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you are attacked, roll 4 dice. If all rolls are good, the attack misses.

Lucky Start
BP: 4
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you start a battle, roll 3 dice and use the effect on the list below.
0 Good: You become Dodgy for 3 turns.
1 Good: You regain 3 HP.
2 Good: You regain 3 FP.
3 Good: You gain the Zap Tap effect for 3 turns.

Mega Rush
BP: 1
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you have only 1 HP, you gain +5 Power.

Multibounce
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Make a normal jump attack against all of your enemies. You can pick what order you attack them in, but you must hit all of the reachable enemies in the front row before starting on the back row. Your attacks end if you take any damage. You may choose not to attack particular enemies, but you cannot start on the back row until you have hit all enemies on the front row.
Critical: Roll for a critical against each enemy, as though making a normal jump attack.
Multiple: For every extra Multibounce equipped, you spend +2 FP and gain +1 Power.

Power Bounce
BP: 3
Coins:
Class: Jump, Unarmed
Special: Spend 3 FP. Make a normal attack against one enemy, then roll two dice. If one roll is good, make another attack and roll again. Keep attacking until you get two failures.
Critical: None.
Multiple: For every extra Power Bounce equipped, you spend +3 FP and gain +1 Power.

P-Down D-Up
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: You gain +1 Defense, but -1 Power.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you gain +1 Defense but -1 Power.

P-Up D-Down
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: You gain +1 Power, but -1 Defense.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you gain +1 Power but -1 Defense.

Peekabo
BP: 2
Coins:
Effect: You can see your enemies' current HP and maximum HP.

Piercing Blow
BP: 2
Coins:
Class: Hammer, Unarmed
Special: Spend 2 FP. Piercing Blow is just like a normal hammer attack, except you ignore your enemy's Defense.
Critical: As a normal hammer attack.
Multiple: For every extra Piercing Blow equipped, you spend +2 FP and gain +1 Power.

Pity Flower
BP: 3
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you take damage, you regain 1 FP.

Power Jump
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. You may make a normal jump attack against one enemy at +1 Power.
Critical: Double your Power for this attack.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you spend +2 FP and gain +1 Power.

Power Rush
BP: 1
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you are at 5 HP or lower, you gain +2 Power.
Multiple: For every extra Power Rush badge equipped, you gain another +2 Power.

Power Smash
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Jump, Unarmed
Special: Spend 2 FP. You may make a normal attack against one enemy at +1 Power.
Critical: Double your Power for this attack.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you spend +2 FP and gain +1 Power.

Quake Hammer
BP: 2
Coins:
Class: Hammer
Special: Spend 3 FP. You hit all enemies on the ceiling and ground. This attack may knock enemies over or dislodge them from the ceiling.
Critical: You gain +1 Power against all enemies for this attack.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, you spend +3 FP and gain +1 Power.

Quick Change
BP: 4
Coins:
Effect: You can switch between the front row and back row without wasting your turn. You can only do this at the start of your turn.

Refund
BP: 1
Coins:
Effect: Whenever you use an item in combat, you regain one half its normal selling price (minimum 1 coin.)

Return Postage
BP: 7
Coins:
Effect: You permanently have the Payback status effect. (If an enemy damages you, he or she takes half as much damage as you did.)

Power Plus
BP: 6
Coins:
Effect: Your Power increases by +1.
Multiple: Your Power increases by +1 for every extra badge equipped.

Shrink Stomp
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Shrink Stomp is just like a normal jump attack.
Critical: As a normal jump attack. If you score a critical, your enemy is Tiny for 3 turns.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Shrink Stomp costs +2 FP and your enemy is Tiny for +3 turns.

Sleepy Stomp
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Sleepy Stomp is just like a normal jump attack.
Critical: As a normal jump attack. If you score a critical, your enemy falls Asleep for 3 turns.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Sleepy Stomp costs +2 FP and your enemy is Asleep +3 turns.

Soft Stomp
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Soft Stomp is just like a normal jump attack.
Critical: As a normal jump attack. If you score a critical, your enemy suffers Defense Down -2 for 2 turns.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Soft Stomp costs +2 FP and your enemy suffers Defense Down for +2 turns.

Spike Shield
BP: 3
Coins:
Effect: You don't take damage when attacking Spiky enemies, and can attack them normally.

Tornado Jump
BP: 3
Coins:
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 3 FP. Make a normal jump attack against one enemy, then deal 1 damage (ignore Defense) to all flying enemies.
Critical: As a normal jump attack, and you deal +1 damage to flying enemies.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Tornado Jump costs +3 FP, you gain +1 Power, you deal +1 damage to flying enemies, and you deal +1 damage to flying enemies if you score a critical hit.

Zap Tap
BP: 4
Coins:
Effect: You gain the Zap Tap status effect permanently.

Dizzy Stomp
BP: 1
Coins:
Class: Jump
Special: Spend 2 FP. Dizzy Stomp is just like a normal jump attack.
Critical: As a normal jump attack. If you score a critical, your enemy is Dizzy for 2 turns.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Dizzy Stomp costs +2 FP and your enemy is Dizzy for +2 turns.


I think we should make all of the racial abilities (besides basics) their own badges. There's little point in making humans and toads the only characters who need to pay for badges and weapons.

Higher and higher
BP:3
Coins:
Effect: Spend 2 fp to use any one of your attacks on a zone one higher than you normally can air is higher than ground ceiling is higher than the air
Multiple: if you have 2 of this badge equipped you may spend 4 fp to attack two zones higher than normal or 2 to attack one higher.

______________________________________________
some race specific badges

Wings
BP: 4
Coins:
Race: Koopa, Goomba, Yoshi
Requiers: flight
Effect: You can fly with little effort. In combat, air zone in addition you are not knocked down when hit.

FLY
BP: 4
Coins:
Race: Boo
Effect: You can fly with little effort. In combat, you may occupy the air zone.

Vanish
BP: 2
Coins:
Race: Boo
Special: Spend 2 FP. You or one of your allies becomes Invisible for 1 turn.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Vanish costs +2 FP and your ally is Invisible for an additional turn.
Note: Out of battle, you may make as many allies as you have badges invisible for 0 FP.

Boom Back
BP: 2
Coins:
Race: Bob-omb
Special: Spend 2 FP. when you explode you stay stunned for one less turn.
Critical: you are not stunned.
Multiple: For every extra badge equipped, Boom Back costs +2 FP you stay stunned for one less turn.
Note: The flower saver badge removes 1fp per badge from the cost with a minimum cost of 1fp per badge

___________(this needs a name)
BP: 2
Coins:
Race: Bob-omb
Special: Spend 2 FP. when you explode you only take Pow damage.
Multiple: With an extra badge equipped, _________ costs +2 FP and you take 0 damage when you explode.
Note: The flower saver badge removes 1fp per badge from the cost with a minimum cost of 1fp per badge

many of these need review and all need a price some may need to become level or tier abilities(see above) my own contributions are on the botom

Items and Equipment

none

we need prices and items il put some up later

Enemies


Special qualities are standardized like this (some of these could also apply to badges, but most of them are intended to keep monsters from having FP:)
Danger: A move with the [Danger] descriptor cannot be used unless you are at half HP or lower.
Crisis: A [Crisis] move cannot be used unless you're at 5 HP or lower.
Cooldown: Moves with [Cooldown] cannot be used two turns in a row.
Retaliate: You can only use a [Retaliate] move on an enemy who damaged you last turn.
Random: If you want to use a [Random] move, first roll two dice. If both rolls are good, go ahead and use the move. If any roll is bad, you cannot use that move this turn.

Table:a table is included for the attack. for example.
"Roll 4 dice, then refer to the following table of successes:
0: Breakdown: Arm falls off. All enemies on the ground take 1 damage and may be knocked down.
1: Chargin' Lazors: +4 Power to next attack.
2: Red Laser Beams: 4 damage to all enemies in the front row.
3: Blue Laser Punch: 4 damage to one enemy on the ground, this may knock an enemy over.
4: Super Duper Cannon: 4 damage to all enemies

How to read an enemy

Enemy Name:
Max HP: The number of hp each enemy has.
Power: the power of the enemies default attack.
Defense: the enemies defense.
Location: where the enemy stays on the battle field ground means the enemies can be in the front or back as the GD chooses.
Special: special strengths weakness or attacks the enemy has.
Info: a short description of the enemy.
SP:the number of star points this enemy is worth.
CD: The number of coin dice, the GD ads to the treasure pool when the players defeat this enemy.

Dust Fuzzy:
Max HP: 4
Power: 1
Defense: 0
Location: ground
Special: Drains health, heals 1hp for every point of damage it does.
Info: These are like every other fuzzy except they live in dusty places.
SP:4
CD:?

Dusty Goombas:
Max HP: 2
Power: 1
Defense: 0
Location: ground
Special: Can flip koopas and buzzy beetles with their headbonks.
Info: Goombas that have been lost in Bowser’s basement for years. You’d think they’d be happy to see us.
SP:3
CD:1/2


Wind-Up Guy:
Max HP: 7
Power: 2
Defense: 0
Location: ground
Special: Has a spear which can be pointed up or forward. When pointed up the wind-up guy is spiky. When pointed forward frontal attacks, such as hammers and shells fail and the attackers take one point of damage that ignores defense(similar to spiky). Wind-up guys can throw their spears after which they can only attack by slamming into their enemy.
Info: These are old toys that look like shy guys. Act a lot like shy guys when they’re wound up to.
SP:12
CD:?

Dust Piders:
Max HP: 6
Power: 2
Defense: 0
Location: ceiling or ground
Special: Normal attack is a bite that poisons for 3 turns on 2 good rolls on 2 dice. Also has a ranged web attack that on a good roll paralyzes for 3 turns. Won’t attack the ground or air if there is a hero on the ceiling. When the dust pider attacks the ground or air it goes down on a web strand and returns to the ceiling (affected by spiky). Falls to the ground if damaged on the ceiling. If the dust pider is on the ground it can only use it’s bite to attack the ground. The dust pider can spend it’s whole turn to move from the ground to the ceiling.
Info: These love to create cobwebs everywhere. They love spinning webs in the most irritating places.
SP:?
CD:?

Fluff Puff:
Max HP: 4
Power: 1
Defense: 0
Location: air
Special: Attack is ranged puff shot. Can create a dust cloud on the ground, air, or ceiling that lasts for 2 turns. Any hero that makes an attack from an area affected by a dust cloud must roll 2 dice and on 2 bad rolls misses otherwise the attack works normally. The fluff puff can take a point of damage and create a dust cloud in all zones (including the back zone).
Info: Mean flying dust balls that float around spreading dust everywhere they can spred a cloud that could make us miss.
SP:6
CD:?

Dust Hopper:
Max HP: 40
Power: 5
Defense: 0
Location: back
Special: Attack is a side swipe with paw or downward slam with paw. Can breathe a dust cloud that hits all heroes on the ground, air, or ceiling, this attack has a power of 2. The zone affected becomes as though a fluff puff created a dust cloud in the zone. Can not breathe dust cloud 2 turns in a row. Creates a dust bit for every point of damage it takes. Can suck up all dust bits to heal 1 hp for each dust bit sucked up. Can summon 3 dust goombas to the front.
Info: This is one huge dust bunny it is able to control dusty Goombas. Looks strangely adorable for being so terrifying.
SP: 30
CD: None boss fight (plot treasure only)

Dust Bit:
Max HP: 1
Power: 1
Defense: 0
Location: air
Special: Attack is a slam. Created when Dust Hopper gets hurt. Can be sucked up by the Dust Hopper to heal it.
Info: Look a lot like small fluff puffs the Dust Hopper can absorb them to heal itself.
SP: None
CD: None

Koopa
HP: 4
DEF: 1
POW: 2
Special Attack: Shell Dash ; This monster attacks all "Ground" units. Cooldown: 2 turns
Other Effects: If this monster is attacked by a "Jump" Attack, this monster is stunned for 2 turns, and DEF is reduced by 1.
SP:?
CD:?

Dizzy Koopa
HP: 8
DEF: 2
POW: 4 (Shell), attacks the front unit on the ground
Special Attack: Shell Twister (Shell); A normal attack that deals a "Dizzy" Effect on a successful hit. Cooldown: 2 turns.
Other Effects: If this monster is attacked by a "Jump" Attack, this monster is stunned for 2 turns, and DEF is reduced by 1.
SP:?
CD:?

Hyper Koopa
HP: 8
DEF: 2
POW: 4 (Shell), attacks the front unit on the ground
Special Attack: Charge; This unit can spend one turn charging, increasing it's next attack by 4.
Other Effects: If this monster is attacked by a "Jump" Attack, this monster is stunned for 2 turns, and DEF is reduced by 1.
SP:?
CD:?

I have not yet worked out a treasure system we should try something like 1 coin per treasure dye, when half or more of the treasure dice are good role the treasure dice again if all are bad add ¼ the treasure dice in coins if less than half are good (and at least one is good) add one flower recover (can not be saved gives each hero back 5 FP) to the treasure if more than half are good (and at least one is bad) add one HP recover (can not be saved gives each hero back 5 HP) to the treasure if all are good ad one item of the GD’s choice to the treasure (round such that HP are more common on an odd number treasure dice)

Extras

Audience would probably work like this: The GM rolls on a table to see what shows up in the audience, 5 or so times at the start of a battle, then once every following turn. There is a maximum of 50 audience members at any given time.

At the start of each turn, the GM rolls (or uses a random number generator) to select a 'seat'. If the 'seat' isn't occupied by an audience member, nothing happens. If it is, the audience member performs a preset action (a toad tosses a PC a mushroom, a hammer bro. throws a hammer at someone that deals a small amount of damage, a shy guy runs on stage and causes mayhem, etc).

A character can appeal to make any actions performed by the audience at the start of the next turn more favorable for them (toad gives a super mushroom instead of a normal one, the hammer bro targets an enemy with it's throw, etc).

As for the star powers, we can do the crunch for powerful if generic abilities and leave it at that. The GMs can then paint whatever fluff around it they want.
Magic would probably be covered by a highly specialized and rare branch of badges, or maybe by Wand or Staff-type weapons. I support making it unique from any other skill in its mechanics. Maybe we could have wands and staves grant their user badge-like abilities when wielded, or be fuelled by unspent BPs. Maybe when you level you can forego levelling stats to unlock a branch of magic spells which just need BP to equip.

there's room for Pixls in the system eventually. They're just low-priority, for now it seems we're focusing on the Gamecube and N64 Paper Marios. I'd imagine they'd work like equipment, granting an attack or FP-costing special without requiring proficiency or an inventory slot.

Tech... is quite random. The Mario setting has numerous anachronisms. I think we could have a general "firearms" weapon type, which would cover everything from rifles to lasers to comically large cannons. It's up to the GM to figure out how many anachronisms a setting can handle.

Bullet bills would work like in the game, a high-HP cannon spawns bullet bill enemies which do suicide attacks.

we realy should get around to a genaric artifact and plot magic systum i think artifacts aka pixals nead to come after we have a bunch of items

Lord Raziere
2010-05-19, 09:25 AM
I still greatly doubt punis should even be playable......the only fighting they actually did was against the jabbies and they were about the same size, only winning cause they always had one more puni than them.

that and look at how small they are- there is a status effect that shrinks people and it shrinks people down to puni size, and unless the person is strong, they are not even able to deal damage because they're so small, that and what special abilities could the punis possibly have? they seem to be nothing but peaceful little insects, if they were actually capable of fighting off things so many times bigger than them, Mario wouldn't even be needed.

so yea, I say we remove the punis from the list of playable races...

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-05-20, 02:35 AM
Nice job, Bliz. I'd go through it in detail, but I've got to sleep. I noticed that not all races have their stats listed...

BLiZme.2
2010-05-20, 03:48 AM
I only rounded out the existing partly stated races and added buzzy beetles to round the list out (we needed at least one climber) as it stands I think we should focus on items (including weapons), key words, level abilities, and generic star spirit like powers.