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Shnezz
2010-04-07, 10:50 AM
Yeah, I know. Wow. I'm likely about as intelligent as a common housecat. But...


Str: 18
Con: 16
Dex: 15
Int: 3
Wis: 12
Cha: 11


Hello strength and con? I'm going to make this a Barbarian, I think.

So... exactly how stupid is a 3 on int? I know reading and writing are out of the question, as is likely any form of a coherant sentence... Can I even speak at all? Or would it be about all I can do to grunt?

Lin Bayaseda
2010-04-07, 11:02 AM
For now, the best suggestion I can give you is: get a pet rock.

valadil
2010-04-07, 11:04 AM
For now, the best suggestion I can give you is: get a pet rock.

So the pet rock can be the brains of the operation?

Mystic Muse
2010-04-07, 11:05 AM
INT 3 is Homer Simpson combined with Peter Griffin combined with Chris Griffin combined with a shovel . although I guess you have a fairly decent wisdom so you're not that bad.

Doug Lampert
2010-04-07, 11:05 AM
Yeah, I know. Wow. I'm likely about as intelligent as a common housecat. But...


Str: 18
Con: 16
Dex: 15
Int: 3
Wis: 12
Cha: 11


Hello strength and con? I'm going to make this a Barbarian, I think.

So... exactly how stupid is a 3 on int? I know reading and writing are out of the question, as is likely any form of a coherant sentence... Can I even speak at all? Or would it be about all I can do to grunt?

1) Why are you rolling stats in 4th edition, it isn't even listed as an alternative optional rule.

2) The distribution of Int scores in D&D land and of IQ in the real world matches up pretty well if you assume IQ=Int*5+50 (make that +47.5 if you insist on averaging 100 even, but most IQ tests actually average a bit above 100). Thus Int 3 is IQ 65, retarded but functional. You can speak, you can probably tie your own shoes, you realize that money is valuable and have an idea of what stuff you commonly buy should cost,... You probably need assistence to deal with anything complicated but even in the modern world you could likely hold down a job and support yourself.

DougL

Lin Bayaseda
2010-04-07, 11:06 AM
@Valadil: Well, I didn't want to say it specifically in these words, but yes.

tcrudisi
2010-04-07, 11:07 AM
Well, Int 3? You are probably as smart as your typical Golden Retriever.

I second the pet rock idea.

There are other classes open to you. You did roll very well except for the 3. Any Str primary and Dex or Con secondary would be a good choice. Fighter, for instance, would make a great class with those stats.

Shnezz
2010-04-07, 11:07 AM
Okay. So I can open doors, but logical analysis is beyond my abilities. I was just wondering if the basis for my whole charater would end up being just stupid, or "HULK SMASH!" level of stupid.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-07, 11:10 AM
Technically, as long as you have above 2 int, the only thing INT effects is skills. Anything with 3 INT can read and write common (or whatever their language is). You don't really have to role-play being stupid, it's just not fun. And anyway, if INT really did effect how smart you should roleplay, then all the wizards in the would should be supermegaduper-geniuses with an IQ of over 9000. (well 300, but you get the point)

Lysander
2010-04-07, 11:12 AM
Read Flowers for Algernon. It's a classic book that gives you a nuanced view of a mentally challenged person's thinking process.

pffh
2010-04-07, 11:13 AM
Going by DougL 65 IQ meant mild mental retardation but I

From wikipedia:

In early childhood mild mental retardation (IQ 50–69) may not be obvious, and may not be identified until children begin school. Even when poor academic performance is recognized, it may take expert assessment to distinguish mild mental retardation from learning disability or emotional/behavioral disorders. As individuals with mild mental retardation reach adulthood, many learn to live independently and maintain gainful employment.

But with int of 3 I would go with moderate mental retardation


Moderate mental retardation (IQ 35-49) is nearly always apparent within the first years of life. Children with moderate mental retardation will require considerable supports in school, at home, and in the community in order to participate fully. As adults they may live with their parents, in a supportive group home, or even semi-independently with significant supportive services to help them, for example, manage their finances.

I don't know how it is in 4e but in 3.5 int 3 is just barely above a dog (int 2) and the bare minimum for sentience and speech.

Just_Ice
2010-04-07, 11:26 AM
You can't establish complicated thought, but the wisdom allows you to gauge the options you understand are being presented to you.

You're probably going to need help putting on clothes or making daily plans, probably. You can likely understand emotion, but not the reasons behind it.

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 11:31 AM
Most people here in the states are no smarter than Int 3 anyways... Just read/watch the news sometimes and roleplay one of them ^ ^

I'm originally from the backwoods of Ky I've seen some sad sad stuff... Like...A boy jumpped on the back of a deer to kill it with a knife >.<;;;; The deer kick the crap out of him.... So if they can function reasonably well in society so can your character :p

pffh
2010-04-07, 11:35 AM
Most people here in the states are no smarter than Int 3 anyways... Just read/watch the news sometimes and roleplay one of them ^ ^

I'm originally from the backwoods of Ky I've seen some sad sad stuff... Like...A boy jumpped on the back of a deer to kill it with a knife >.<;;;; The deer kick the crap out of him.... So if they can function reasonably well in society so can your character :p

That... that is NOT functioning reasonably well in a society. That is... something else, I don't know what but yeah no function blargh brain shut off.

nedz
2010-04-07, 11:44 AM
Okay. So I can open doors, but logical analysis is beyond my abilities.
I was just wondering if the basis for my whole charater would end up being just stupid, or "HULK SMASH!" level of stupid.


Well the whole push/pull thing may confuse you a bit :)

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 11:44 AM
Out side of the deer kicking... He holds a job and doesn't arrested everyday so yeah he is functioning well in society he just does stupid things from time to time. Being stupid doesn't mean you can't function in society, heck there is plenty of evidence out there that basically says IQ test doesn't mean squat.

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-07, 11:46 AM
Well, sure. You're maybe as smart as a labrador. Compared to my Ranger's Wolf Companion, though, he's still pretty damn dumb. (Wolf int = 6 or so.)

Make no bones about it, int 3 is LOW. If you're using the rolling method, which is very, very alternate, you've got to accept the crippling deficiencies along with the chance at higher overall stats.

Just be glad you've got a wisdom score, so you won't end up like dear old Lenny.

Tell me 'bout the rabbats again, george.

AtwasAwamps
2010-04-07, 11:47 AM
If you're using the rolling method, which is very, very alternate

People keep saying this, but WotC built it right into their own Character Builder program. It's right there with the other alternate methods.

Doug Lampert
2010-04-07, 11:49 AM
Going by DougL 65 IQ meant mild mental retardation
Yep, as I said, you can function in society and hold down a job. That Int 2 is a dog is irrelevant to figuring out what Int 3 is.

Int 3 is literate and able to speak and the distributions match up pretty well with the formula I gave, which says Int 3 is functional and arround IQ 65. There's NO POINT to a game system that produces characters too stupid to function.

Just like D&D doesn't produce characters too weak to walk even though 0 is too weak to move your arm. The rolling system of 3d6, in order, that the game started with was supposed to produce viable characters, so no one ability needs to be above 3 to be functional.

Given the convention that the range for PCs is 3-18, and the convention that 0 means nothing and totally non-functional, dogs and animals all HAVE to fit in the 1 or 2 Int bins, whether it makes sense on the human scale or not. But for humans IQ=Int*5+50 gives a pretty good scale limited in utility only by the fact that IQ itself is pretty badly flawed.

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 11:51 AM
Yeah I was wondering when they got rid of rolling for stat O_O lol Last I checked my DDI it hada dice rolling method ... let me check again though ^ ^

hamishspence
2010-04-07, 11:52 AM
While 4E dropped the "all animals are Int 2 at most" principle, Int 3 is still pretty high in 4E. Ordinary wolves are Int 2.

MM2's Scytheclaw Drake, an exceptionally devious pack hunter and the closest thing 4E has to a Jurassic Park Velociraptor, is Int 3.

Interestingly, 4E Dire Wolves (in MM) are Int 5.

Yakk
2010-04-07, 11:56 AM
What I'd do is find another PC you rely on to do your thinking.

Your Wis is 12, so you are reasonably able to determine if someone is lying to you from their behavior (you might want to pick up Insight as a skill to enhance this).

In effect, you can pick people who seem trustworthy, and do what they tell you to do (so long as it isn't complex).

A half-decent role model might be to play the Giant in Princess Bride.

Nidogg
2010-04-07, 11:57 AM
Congratulations! Your character qualifies for the job Adventurer!

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 11:58 AM
for the rolling dice part....

http://i41.tinypic.com/15hp4x.jpg

But the thing is I don't think you can have below an 8 on any score....

*edit* yep you can tried about 20 times and got a 6 lol

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-07, 11:58 AM
People keep saying this, but WotC built it right into their own Character Builder program. It's right there with the other alternate methods.

The Default is Point-buy / Arrays. This is very definately the case.
Rolling is an Alternate system. It's non-standard, and de-emphasised. You'll notice that when you do roll, unless you happen to roll exactly equal to the point-buy method perhaps, your sheet gets marked Homebrew.

There IS no point to allowing characters too stupid to function. That's one of the reasons that the default way of generating characters caps down at 8, after all.

If your group still prefers rolling, that's cool. There's support there to allow it to happen, and keep things ticking over. But int 3 is still really, really dumb.

Indon
2010-04-07, 12:06 PM
So... exactly how stupid is a 3 on int? I know reading and writing are out of the question, as is likely any form of a coherant sentence... Can I even speak at all? Or would it be about all I can do to grunt?

Forrest Gump probably had about 5-7 Int, and high Wis/Cha. He's a pretty good template for a low-Int hero who is nonetheless very intellectually effective.

The main character in Flowers for Algernon, if I had to say, is Int 4, with average Wis and Cha scores. He's a pretty good template.

Mind that with slightly above-average Wis and Cha, your character is still pretty intellectually functional - they just can't apply problem solving skills in any sophisticated way. They might still be able to intuit things (such as, say, making a good guess on a sophisticated puzzle) to some degree, and sometimes thinking like that can provide suprisingly simple and elegant solutions.

I recommend you only start with your int score as a very general guideline, and work on fleshing out a more sophisticated concept of what your characters' state of mind would be as a result of their upbringing.

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 12:24 PM
The roll dice button (in the pic i posted above that i edited when my power went out >.> stupid power) shows that it is right next to the use array button... "It's non-standard, and de-emphasised" is not the case, it is clearly right there in plain site.... Using point buy caps down the abilities at 8 but using point buy is just a way to make sure everyone is on equal footing and no one whines about their abilities

Kaulesh
2010-04-07, 12:39 PM
Barbarian? Psh... Make a wizard. Guaranteed fun.

Mando Knight
2010-04-07, 01:07 PM
A half-decent role model might be to play the Giant in Princess Bride.

Fezzik is not that stupid. He's functionally intelligent, and no where near as stupid as Vizzini claims he is (since Vizzini's arrogant like that).

3 Int functions more like a dog in the shape of a man. You solve problems mostly by trying different things until you get something that works rather than sitting down and figuring out what the problem is and finding the best solution in the first answer. (like playing Minesweeper by clicking until you lose/win, then changing how you click after you find out that the last time didn't work, as opposed to running through it tactically)

Indon
2010-04-07, 01:12 PM
3 Int functions more like a dog in the shape of a man. You solve problems mostly by trying different things until you get something that works rather than sitting down and figuring out what the problem is and finding the best solution in the first answer. (like playing Minesweeper by clicking until you lose/win, then changing how you click after you find out that the last time didn't work, as opposed to running through it tactically)

Also, such an individual could still be taught fairly sophisticated solving methods, it would simply take more time and effort on the part of the teachers to do so, and probably nothing as complex as a bunch of those nonmagic rituals.

hamishspence
2010-04-07, 01:15 PM
I thought that Int 3 was supposed to be about as smart as the "raptors" in Jurassic Park- given that Scytheclaw Drakes, which look very similar and are described in a similar way, are Int 3.

Tyrmatt
2010-04-07, 01:32 PM
I second reading Flowers for Algernon or if you feel you don't have time, the fairly good TV adaptation Charly.

RP wise, you could simply play the character as very devoted to the ideals his mother/parental figure taught him as it's all he knows to be absolutely true. Other people may tell him things, but he knows that he shouldn't trust those people because "Strangers cannot be trusted" was one of the things his mother taught him.

High charisma (relatively) would give him the ability to seem affable and pleasant, if dim. He would possibly introduce himself politely to everyone he meets, even enemies if that behaviour had been drilled into him.

Decent wisdom gives him the ability to live by principles, particularly if you go the parental route or perhaps as a foundling at some kind of military training school. It also would suggest he would form loyal bonds to people who are nice to him and treat him fairly.

The barbarian route would also see him functioning best under a crafty and slightly manipulative leader who simply directs his might against the most worthy target. Not a paladin though, but a decent warlord or fighter to act as the brains and direction behind the giant muscles wouldn't be a bad idea.

Eorran
2010-04-07, 01:46 PM
I think using various animals as a comparison is a mistake here. 3 Int is supposed to be the lowest end of functional for a human - not subhuman, nor animal. It's probably best to consider humanoids and animals as using a separate scale, one that doesn't translate across.

Besides which, this character has a slightly above-average Wisdom, and average Charisma. I don't think such an extreme difference would exist in reality, but perhaps the way to portray it is a character who has essentially no "book-smarts" ie isn't good at math, geometry, memorization or facts, but has decent "street-smarts". Maybe play him the way you would play someone with zero formal education?

In the end, find a concept you like and play him that way, regardless of his stats.

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 02:05 PM
Ok problem solved!!

Step 1: Be a barbarian
Step 2: Buy a collar and leash
Step 3: Desinate an "owner"
Step 4: Play your character as Animal from the muppets
Step 5: ????*
Step 6: Profit

*Scientist have now discovered what ? equals, ?= rage/destroy on comand :D

Nidogg
2010-04-07, 02:50 PM
]
RP wise, you could simply play the character as very devoted to the ideals his mother/parental figure taught him as it's all he knows to be absolutely true. Other people may tell him things, but he knows that he shouldn't trust those people because "Strangers cannot be trusted" was one of the things his mother taught him.


Lawful stupid?

NeoVid
2010-04-07, 03:29 PM
To make this character playable, I would recommend focusing on his good Wisdom (if only it was even higher), and make him have a good feel for how to deal with most situations, as there's no possibility of him logically figuring out a right answer.

Ozreth
2010-04-07, 03:35 PM
1) Why are you rolling stats in 4th edition, it isn't even listed as an alternative optional rule.

DougL

Have you read the 4e PHB? We roll stats in all of our games. Pg. 18

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/XVIIreasons/Screenshot2010-04-07at64749AM.png

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 10:03 PM
Maybe you should ask your DM for a reroll for int? Its not like it would be an abuse of power or character favoritism.... Having a higher than 3 int would help the intire party

krossbow
2010-04-07, 10:06 PM
Play your character like he escaped from 4chan. No, i'm serious.


Make sure to constantly yell, or speak IN ALL CAPS to designate that he is contributing to the group and be "a helper!". And there are no wrong situations to let everyone know about how you LIEK CHOKLATE MILK!

Kaulesh
2010-04-07, 10:13 PM
I'm reminded of an old D&D story I heard long ago. It was about a particularly dense half-orc barbarian who thought he was a wizard. He would swing his great axe, close his eyes, and scream a spell such as fireball or lightning bolt.

Erom
2010-04-07, 10:14 PM
Internet Stupid is a hilarious gimmick to use for low int character - unfortunately, it usually implies a lower charisma than he's rolled.

randomhero00
2010-04-07, 11:31 PM
DnD intelligence scaling isn't linear. Its a total myth that you can figure out IQ by an int score. In other words there are miles between an int of 2 and one of 3. Just like there are miles of distance between a 0 and a 1 in dex.

A better way to think of it is through the mod rather than the score. A 3 is only at a -4 penalty for instance.So even in an untrained skill you could roll a 19 and get a 15. Look at some of the skill DCs that have a 15 or below. You're character could potentially know/do that some of the time. So your character could certainly put on his own clothes, etc.

Mental retardation isn't really covered by in DnD.

krossbow
2010-04-07, 11:34 PM
DnD intelligence scaling isn't linear. Its a total myth that you can figure out IQ by an int score. In other words there are miles between an int of 2 and one of 3. Just like there are miles of distance between a 0 and a 1 in dex.

A better way to think of it is through the mod rather than the score. A 3 is only at a -4 penalty for instance.So even in an untrained skill you could roll a 19 and get a 15. Look at some of the skill DCs that have a 15 or below. You're character could potentially know/do that some of the time. So your character could certainly put on his own clothes, etc.

Mental retardation isn't really covered by in DnD.

they could also easily FAIL putting on their clothes :smallwink:


This is a person who might take a minute to put their shirt on, let alone get it buttoned.

randomhero00
2010-04-07, 11:46 PM
they could also easily FAIL putting on their clothes :smallwink:


This is a person who might take a minute to put their shirt on, let alone get it buttoned.

Except putting on clothes isn't a skill check in DnD. Which means they auto succeed. And out of combat can in fact take 10. Which means they auto succeed on any kind of task with a DC 5. I'm 99% positive putting on clothes wouldn't have a DC above 5 :smallbiggrin:

Here are some things in pathfinder you could do with a DC 15. I can't find my 4e book. But its pretty similar through any edition. Since you can still train in a knowledge skill even with an int of 3 you'd have a 1 in it (in 4e). Which means you'd succeed on a DC15 with a 14 or above. Which also means you have a 35% chance of succeeding.

know common mythology
local tradition or rumors
recent significant historical events
recognize regional terrain features
determine a structures style/design
figure out slope (hello geometry)
identify auras from detect magic

And that's just some of things. Some of those are DC10 too. Knowing that stuff, even only 1/3 of the time, goes way beyond having trouble buttoning a shirt...

BobVosh
2010-04-07, 11:52 PM
I heartily recommend playing Mongo from blazing saddles. Fairly stupid, does stupid stuff, and to play up the decent wisdom occasionally says some fairly wise things. Mongo only pawn... in game of life.

Nightson
2010-04-08, 01:50 AM
I think it's important to look at what you can do according to the system. You can interact with people just fine. You don't do stupid things you've got a perfectly fine wisdom score. What you're bad it is remembering things, grasping complex systems, that sort of thing.

Furnok
2010-04-08, 08:41 AM
I have a Fighter that originally had a 9 INT and 13 WIS for a fighter, and we started the campaign at 3 level. Around 5 level we found some potions that our wizard couldn’t identify so being the impatient fighter I am I drank a potion the DM rolled a D6 and started laughing the potion permanently took 6 from INT and add 6 to WIS. So Now I have a 3 INT and 19 WIS.

We talked about what I would have to start doing, the DM that WIS is your ability to remember things that you have read or done, and INT is your critical thinking skills/your ability to create new ideas. So in game terms I would remember everything that I had done/learned previously in life but now I will not be able to “learn” anything new. I would have to experience new things to “learn” from my mistakes/successes every time I do something I have to write it down so I can “remember.” So about 10 years in RL time my character is 21st level and he has about 3 front and back sheets of paper of things he has “learned”.

Indon
2010-04-08, 09:09 AM
Play your character like he escaped from 4chan. No, i'm serious.


Make sure to constantly yell, or speak IN ALL CAPS to designate that he is contributing to the group and be "a helper!". And there are no wrong situations to let everyone know about how you LIEK CHOKLATE MILK!

That's low wisdom, if you ask me - quite possibly low wisdom and charisma and high intelligence.

Furnok, awesome character concept.

Iferus
2010-04-08, 09:27 AM
You should see Idiocracy. Lots of unintelligent people living a functional life there.

Jayabalard
2010-04-08, 09:28 AM
Read Flowers for Algernon. It's a classic book that gives you a nuanced view of a mentally challenged person's thinking process.interesting, that's the first thought I had as well.

XiaoTie
2010-04-08, 10:46 AM
You should see Idiocracy. Lots of unintelligent people living a functional life there.

This one!

It could help you wonders if you are planning on, every now and then, playing your character as some sort of comic relief.

ericgrau
2010-04-08, 11:08 AM
A housecat is int 2. You can speak but, yes, you are retarded. Your decent wisdom and charisma means you are observant and attentive of other things and people / their moods (you are not absent-minded), you simply have trouble understanding what it all means.