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Magic Myrmidon
2010-04-07, 10:57 PM
First of all, hi. My first post here.

Anyway, for my first campaign as a DM, I was going to make the bad guy a psion. His main power is going to be mind affecting things. When the PCs encounter him, that's how he'll fight.

What I'm worried about, however, is if using some psionic powers may feel rather unfair to the PCs. Powers like Death Urge, Dominate, and Deja Vu (aside from being potentially very damaging) take some control away from a PCs character, which can be frustrating. Time Hop or energy stun can be boring for the person affected by it, since they're essentially taken out of play for certain amounts of time. And mind thrust can sometimes be an instakill if you put enough power points in it.

On the other hand, I don't want to build up the big baddie to be some will-warping genius, then have him suddenly switch to pure damage powers or mundane stat affecting powers when he fights. I also want it to be fitting for a final boss, so that there is a real risk of death for players.

So, have others used a psion as a baddie? Do you merely refrain from using powers like these, or do you just let the PCs have it?

Flickerdart
2010-04-07, 11:04 PM
Give the PCs an opportunity to gain the trust and aid of organizations that will send their champions to help the PCs. Have those champions then be turned against the party, driven to insanity or pushed through time as they make their way to the BBEG's throne room. And when they reach it...they face the BBEG's Thrall(s). Or doppelgangers of themselves. The BBEG might be somewhere, but he sure as hell won't be fighting them when there are minions to do it for him. Only when the minions have all fallen and the players are worn down will he waltz out and start Ego Whipping them or something. He's already demonstrated his Mind-Affecting powers.

Remember, Protection from Evil helps a lot.

Glimbur
2010-04-07, 11:05 PM
Have him have minions. This reduces the action advantage of the PC's (four people with four sets of actions will tend to clobber one person with one set of actions) and it fits his fluff well.

Magugag
2010-04-07, 11:08 PM
One thing you really need to watch is that you don't pull out your BBEG's fangs completely. To be effective as the villain of the campaign, he should have some abilities that can utterly crush the hapless victim. He should be scary, and turning the PCs against each other is one of the nastiest things he can do. It's perfect. I know you don't want to wipe out your party, but don't let that stop you from having your villain think like a villain and hit them where it hurts.

Magic Myrmidon
2010-04-08, 12:08 AM
Oh, he'll definitely have minions. Likely some people that they know, too. Makes for a nice choice. (Kill them, take the easy, safe route, or try to merely knock them out, hoping to free them from the psion's control?)

So, Magugag, you are saying it's a good thing to give the big baddie really powerful things? Excellent.

Also, protection from evil may not be working, since the baddie is actually lawful neutral. His reasons for his actions are not evil.

Magikeeper
2010-04-08, 12:52 AM
Also, protection from evil may not be working, since the baddie is actually lawful neutral. His reasons for his actions are not evil.

The anti-mind-control bit doesn't care about alignment.

I had the party fight a high level cerebramancer. You can display the mind-effecting powers before the final fight itself. Give the PCs a chance to prepare a defense against that sort of thing and you can have him use other powers without it looking strange.

Also, share pain + vigor is a great idea for BBEGs. Having him share pain with a number of those people-they-know might be a good idea (not the ones he sends out to fight). Also, the psycrystal.

Ashiel
2010-04-08, 01:27 AM
First of all, hi. My first post here.

Anyway, for my first campaign as a DM, I was going to make the bad guy a psion. His main power is going to be mind affecting things. When the PCs encounter him, that's how he'll fight.

What I'm worried about, however, is if using some psionic powers may feel rather unfair to the PCs. Powers like Death Urge, Dominate, and Deja Vu (aside from being potentially very damaging) take some control away from a PCs character, which can be frustrating. Time Hop or energy stun can be boring for the person affected by it, since they're essentially taken out of play for certain amounts of time. And mind thrust can sometimes be an instakill if you put enough power points in it.

On the other hand, I don't want to build up the big baddie to be some will-warping genius, then have him suddenly switch to pure damage powers or mundane stat affecting powers when he fights. I also want it to be fitting for a final boss, so that there is a real risk of death for players.

So, have others used a psion as a baddie? Do you merely refrain from using powers like these, or do you just let the PCs have it?

I've used Mages and Psions as bad-guys and big-bads on many, many occasions. A few things you may wish to consider when you're dealing with your Big Bads for the game.

1: Players are generally going to romp and stomp all over a big-bad who isn't capable of disrupting their organization, their combat tempo, or combat plans. Action economy is a big thing, and if you want a bad-guy to seem threatening with damage or minions alone, then you run the problem of having the fight be boring, too weak, or two strong, too easily.

Additionally when playing a damage game, then to be considered a threat, they must deal large sums of damage very quickly; which then turns into a damage race; forcing bland combats and often failing to instill the sense of serious danger immediately without completely overpowering PCs.

2: Charm and domination effects can quickly disrupt the action economy and force the party to change their tactics around. If your party has minions such as druid animal companions or cohorts, these types are excellent targets for domination effects.

Keep in mind, lots of offensive effects take control away from a character. If they're not, and they're not doing damage, then they fail offensively. Black tentacles and grease spells can completely remove a character from a fight, often more easily than a solid charm or dominate. Additionally, charm/dominate effects are generally a gamble; being an all-or-nothing attempt at turning the tables.

3: The main thing is you want them to be intimidating, and feel like a viable threat; even if they aren't shelling out huge amounts of damage. In many cases, making the players feel threatened, or playing mind-games with them is an excellent way to do this. Since you're using a Psion, you have a lot of fun options for playing around with your party.

A good wizard or sorcerer generally should attempt to end the combat as quickly as possible. Often times, this will involve a well-placed black tentacles spell, or something similar; often from beginning while invisible or using various illusions to play around. This can often lead to almost binary combats: Destroy Party or Waste Actions.

A good psion however can fit a lot of nice and interesting actions into their turn, which allows them to at least feel more interesting to fight. Here's an example of what I mean.



Let's say you're using a 7th level Psion (Telepath) as your big bad of choice. So you can use up to 4th level powers, and select psionic dominate as a 4th level telepath power. Additionally, you have 3 feats, +1 if human, +2 from your Psion levels. With these feats you pickup Psicrystal Affinity, Expanded Knowledge (Astral Construct), Expanded Knowledge (Dimension Swap), Expanded Knowledge (Animal Affinity), Expanded Knowledge (Energy Missile), and Psionic Body; granting your Psion +12hp, a psicrystal (with a +2 bump to either initiative, fortitude, or will), and a few nice powers.

Before combat (assuming your Psion knows the party is coming), have him begin manifesting Astral Construct to create as many of them as he can; choosing the Poison option (DC 12, 1 con/1d2 con poison). Have the Psion manifest a full-power vigor sharing it with your Psicrystal (granting you each 35 temporary HP); then manifest share pain targeting your Psicrystal. Now your Psion splits 1/2 the damage he takes with his equally buffed crystal (creating what is very similar to 70 temporary hit points).

When combat occurs, have the constructs soak the party's attacks if able; and attempt to get in their way. They are mostly just a distraction. Throw up an energy wall to trap the party, or create obstacles on the field; which has a duration of Concentration; then solicit psicrystal to let his psicrystal hold the power while the psion continues manifesting. Throwing in a few Telekinetic Maneuvers which has a duration of concentration can allow you to bull-rush opponents through your own energy walls (dealing 2d6+9 damage each time), or trip or disarm people while they're fighting with the astral constructs.

Additionally, you can feel free to toss in some dominate or charm powers in now and then to keep the group on their toes. For more battlefield fun; purchase a dorje of wall of ectoplasm with a few charges remaining so you can throw up walls on the field to disrupt movement and end line of sight/effect. Also, a dorje of dimension door can make for clever movement and escape options as well (great for a recurring villain).

If you really must inflict some damage; the energy missile can effectively deal 7d6+7 fire or cold damage to mid-range enemies with impressive accuracy; while the party is trying to get past your minions and deal with your obstacles in battle.

End Result: A BBEG who can take some serious punishment (to avoid being ended in 1-2 rounds), who can disrupt the action economy in his favor with summons and sharing with his psi-crystal (this helps even out his disadvantage against a party). He has some clever movement options. He has a lot of ways to fight the party, so it doesn't get boring. Lots of ways to make the party feel threatened or in danger, even if the group isn't actually sustaining a lot of punishment.


The above encounter uses a lot of the psion's resources, and may even require the Psion to "nova" and spend a lot of his PP in the single fight; but the battle won't be an instant-win. The party must deal with impressive meat shields, who allow you to request a fortitude save when they hit the party (this can make a player go :smalleek:). Additionally, it makes them think about how they want to move (thanks to the energy/ectoplasm walls).

The psion is guarded or protected via clever use of terrain and line of sight/effect control (using dimension door to move to tactical positions, such as the top of a staircase, and wall of ectoplasm to protect himself from ranged attacks). Finally, he tries to dominate warrior-types when time suggests; can throw down a bit of damage; and can join in the fun by either creating more energy walls (giving him one to concentrate on and one for the psicrystak) or using telekinetic maneuver to disrupt the party (forcing disarm checks, trip checks, grapple checks, bull-rush checks).

While it's highly likely that this is less effective than simply trying to lock-down the party with liberal uses of spells like black tentacles, stinking cloud, followed by a fireball barrage that a sorcerer could easily bring to bear; the fight will be winnable while appearing very, very threatening.

The reason it's so threatening is because it makes the party feel like everything is against them. The minions are forcing saves against poison; the energy walls are dealing small but difficult to avoid amounts of damage; the psion is bouncing around and trying to be elusive; occasionally they're getting tripped or tossed via telekinetic power; and they fear the possibility of suddenly joining the psion's team! The psion is confronting them with a multitude of obstacles; like an evil mastermind should!

Now, if your players aren't experienced enough to handle such an encounter (this psion is fairly optimized), then you could easily drop a few strategic hints during the plot; such as mentioning that spells like protection from evil can block mental control, or that dispel magic could be used against the psion's power (allowing them to attempt to break his effects).

Finally, you could easily replace the astral constructs with other minions; or if you want a truly massive fight, include a group of kobold or goblin thralls and underlings with the fight as well (who make tactical movement a big tricky by trying to trip/grapple everything, or using aid-another actions like it was their job).

Food for thought. :smallsmile:

Magic Myrmidon
2010-04-08, 05:03 PM
Wow. Some great ideas I got from this topic.

Thanks, everyone. It's helped a lot. :)