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Geiger Counter
2010-04-08, 12:13 AM
Where can I find decent fluff + crunch on Fey?
Preferably online and free.

Also I'm planning to argue this with someone.
Should elves be classified as fey?

Temotei
2010-04-08, 12:15 AM
Where can I find decent fluff + crunch on Fey?
Preferably online and free.

Also I'm planning to argue this with someone.
Should elves be classified as fey?

Err...Monster Manual? Wizards of the Coast?

Fey in general or some fey races in particular that have good fluff and crunch?

Elves shouldn't be fey, in my opinion.

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 12:16 AM
Savage Species has a little fluff on fey, particularly why they would want to leave their wilds in search of adventure.

I'm unaware if there's an actual sourcebook on them though.

Elves aren't "fey" enough, except in the rainbow sense, if you catch my meaning.

Temotei
2010-04-08, 12:17 AM
Savage Species has a little fluff on fey, particularly why they would want to leave their wilds in search of adventure.

I'm unaware if there's an actual sourcebook on them though.

Elves aren't "fey" enough, except in the rainbow sense, if you catch my meaning.

I suppose Fiend Folio might do something for you, now that I think about it.

Kosjsjach
2010-04-08, 12:17 AM
Personally, I prefer to flavor Gnomes with fey origins, probably blame-able on Pathfinder. The notion of extraplanar refugees from a realm of vibrancy and chaos appeals to me.

But I agree with your original assessment, fey lack good (widely known) support.

Temotei
2010-04-08, 12:22 AM
Eldan loves fey, from what I've seen. He'll probably drift in here by tomorrow, posting all sorts of wonderful sources for fey that none of us have ever heard of. :smallamused:

Mordokai
2010-04-08, 12:22 AM
I'd be interested in finding more information about fey as well.

As for elves... 4E obviously deems them fey enough. They are fey, under the new rules. Or at least "considered" fey, for the purpose of spells, effects, weapons that effect fey and such. I guess that's pretty much the same as outright saying they are fey, but make what you will out of it.

The Tygre
2010-04-08, 12:45 AM
First and foremost, do you have any particular edition you're looking for?

AintThatASeamus
2010-04-08, 12:46 AM
The 3.5 Ravenloft sourcebook "Van Richten's Guide to the Shadow Fey" is pretty cool in terms of fey material. It's not all universal, but even the stuff that is bound up in the Ravenloft setting could easily be adapted for other uses. It does focus on the creepier aspects of fey like bewitching mortals or stealing children, but it's still a great fey resource.

Kaiyanwang
2010-04-08, 01:55 AM
In the Wotc archives, you can "Fey Features", articles about fey, their courts and the like. Google it.

Sadly, barring this, and the fluff of particular races, there is not a sourcebook for Fey among Wotc products like there is Draconomincon for Dragons and Lords of Madness for Aberrations.

BTW, I love fey and I found it very :smallfrown: and :smallfurious:.

I could have appreciated a splat about Fey, and one about Giants.

At leats, one with both...

golentan
2010-04-08, 02:00 AM
In the Wotc archives, you can "Fey Features", articles about fey, their courts and the like. Google it.

Sadly, barring this, and the fluff of particular races, there is not a sourcebook for Fey among Wotc products like there is Draconomincon for Dragons and Lords of Madness for Aberrations.

BTW, I love fey and I found it very :smallfrown: and :smallfurious:.

I could have appreciated a splat about Fey, and one about Giants.

At leats, one with both...

Yeah, but fey features has some good stuff to sink your teeth into. I used it, Half Fey, and Warlock to create a character who's entire goal was to be accepted by the Courts of Faerie...

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-08, 05:52 AM
I'm not a big Fey person. Unintelligible chaos bugs me.

Eldariel
2010-04-08, 06:47 AM
You can go with realworld mythological background since it's quite congruent with the D&D mythos surrounding the fey; there's a few excellent works on the world of the fey. E.g. Greenish (from these boards) listed some in an earlier thread on the subject: "The Ladies of Grace Adieu", "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell" by Susanna Clarke and "Stardust" by Neil Gaiman. Also, Pratchett's "Lords and Ladies" of course, from more familiar fantasy literature. I can't say much on the formers as I haven't read them, but chances are they'll give one some insight to what they fey world may look like. And yeah, Fey Features is a must-read.

Overall, they're a hugely interesting part of the world, but there's so little on them simply because they mostly reside the material plane and thus haven't gotten their own planar description; a coexistent "fey world" akin to the Plane of Shadow or the Ethereal Plane would make all sorts of sense though. But that's not congruent with how they're officially intended, I guess.


And far as I'm concerned, Elves are fey. I mean, what, almost eternally lived nature-connected creatures with strong magical tendencies and decidedly chaotic demeanor? That's "fey" in a nutshell. The whole "ethereal beauty" and "enchanting presence"-parts pretty much underline that.

And when we look at the mythological backgrounds of D&D Elves, yeah, they pretty much are made based off the fey (and Tolkien Elves, which are most decidedly fey).

The mentioned Fey Features Archive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/fey).

hamishspence
2010-04-08, 06:53 AM
Manual of the Planes had rules for the Plane of Faerie. It also suggested statting Seelie & Unseelie as half-fiend and half-celestial elves.

Dragon Compendium had Seelie & Unseelie templates.

El Dorado
2010-04-08, 06:57 AM
Complete Mage has a handful of Fey Heritage feats

Evard
2010-04-08, 07:53 AM
4e they are considered fey, really you could considered anything native to the Fey Wild a Fey. Even say a human born there from human parents could be considered fey. Yes they wouldn't be biologically fey like evles/eladrin/drow and other creatures but the term "fey" could apply. This is actually like how we use the term "race" now days... Before WW1 WW2 race was not "white, black, hispanic, etc" but where you came from. If you were french then that was your race, if you was Kenyan (like my good friend is :D) then that was your race.

I think their should be a 4e book dedicated only to the fey, I read an article when 4e first came out that talked about the origin of 4e eladrin/elves/drow which was a pretty neat read. Apparently Lolth didn't turn the drow's skin dark the drow just done that somehow on their own to imitate her.

What would be great is if they didn't make a book on the races but made them on civilizations, a very detailed book about a drow city or even a halfling city.

Prime32
2010-04-08, 08:10 AM
Read this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheFairFolk)

Fey are completely alien. The only difference between the Seelie and Unseelie Courts is that the Unseelie mock you while they're killing you.

Vizzerdrix
2010-04-08, 08:36 AM
And far as I'm concerned, Elves are fey.


Silly. Elves aren't fey. ^_^

They're vermin. And should be treated as such. And by that, I mean treated like a disease. Treated with fire. Every last one.:smallfurious:

Kaiyanwang
2010-04-08, 08:41 AM
Silly. Elves aren't fey. ^_^

They're vermin. And should be treated as such. And by that, I mean treated like a disease. Treated with fire. Every last one.:smallfurious:

What's this burning hatred? Veiled with racism? Racism against a nonexisting race*?


* basing the sentence on the flawed assumption that races do exist, of course... :smallamused:

shadow_archmagi
2010-04-08, 08:42 AM
In my campaign setting, the gnomes invented and abused illusion magic so much that the other races decided to kill them all, so they were forced to retreat from the entire world and BECOME fey.

tbarrie
2010-04-08, 08:51 AM
For crunch, you're going to need to tell people what game system you're using.

For fluff, I've always quite liked Ars Magica's various Faerie supplements. The one for the pseudo-fourth edition (published by Wizards of the Coast), in particular, has whole chapters of just stories and setting info, with comparatively little space devoted to game mechanics.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-08, 08:55 AM
Silly. Elves aren't fey. ^_^

They're vermin. And should be treated as such. And by that, I mean treated like a disease. Treated with fire. Every last one.:smallfurious:

Seriously, I don't get all the hate of Elves. Yes their self-important, yes they're supposedly good at everything, but so are Humans (in D&D terms anyway).

Vizzerdrix
2010-04-08, 09:02 AM
What's this burning hatred? Veiled with racism? Racism against a nonexisting race*?


* basing the sentence on the flawed assumption that races do exist, of course... :smallamused:

Racisim? No no no. Like I said, elves are a disease, not a race.

And Kobold Bard-- They know what they did. :smallmad:

Eldan
2010-04-08, 09:10 AM
Eldan loves fey, from what I've seen. He'll probably drift in here by tomorrow, posting all sorts of wonderful sources for fey that none of us have ever heard of. :smallamused:

For me it's still today :smalltongue:

But honestly? I don't know much good fey fluff online. Go look at the Fey Prestige class contest, that has some great stuff.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-08, 09:16 AM
Racisim? No no no. Like I said, elves are a disease, not a race.

And Kobold Bard-- They know what they did. :smallmad:

Care to enlighten me, because I sure as hell don't.

shadow_archmagi
2010-04-08, 09:32 AM
Seriously, I don't get all the hate of Elves. Yes their self-important, yes they're supposedly good at everything, but so are Humans (in D&D terms anyway).

That's the thing though. If they actually ARE better than humans at everything, then it's our natural urge to try to best them by any means possible.

If they don't live up to their self-importance, then they're just asking for you to rub it in their faces and show them what worthless arrogant pricks they are.

But I digress.

The real point is that I have an entire trade depot full of amontillado for any elves who want some! Just step right past the floodgate and don't mind the dwarf standing ready with that lever that doesn't seal the room or release magma at all.

Fan
2010-04-08, 09:35 AM
Care to enlighten me, because I sure as hell don't.

Drow Tales comes to mind, but that's the Drow's fault... though they are a technical sub breed of elf.

Is still largely unreasonable, just go read the shadowmoor books. >_>

Zeta Kai
2010-04-08, 09:54 AM
For one of the Vote Up a Monster contests, I statted up a Changeling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5821910#post5821910) that was heavily based on mythology, & not that Eberron thing (changeling-in-name-only). It's a fey that swaps out babies with its own kind, which grow up to do the same thing, basically. I consider it my best VUAM monster, & possible the best monster that I've ever created. It was a miracle that the votes allowed me to stat them just right.

Eldariel
2010-04-08, 10:26 AM
Silly. Elves aren't fey. ^_^

They're vermin. And should be treated as such. And by that, I mean treated like a disease. Treated with fire. Every last one.:smallfurious:

Dear sir, you have your terms confused here. You are speaking of gnomes, sir. But you are forgiven this one time; after all, the races share some mythological origin so it's a very human-like error. I understand one cannot choose, in which race one is born and as such, blood cannot be held accountable.

dspeyer
2010-04-08, 10:31 AM
There's a whole bunch of fey creatures described on wotc, including flavour. If you use the monster finder in my sig and select type=fey you'll find them.

Yucca
2010-04-08, 11:59 AM
Not exactly a consistent fluff, but one (online and free) resource I found is this listing of all the fey creatures on a different board:

All the Different Types of Fey (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-monster-talk/215694-all-different-types-fey.html)

Slightly off-topic: Someone mentioned "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell" as a potential source. It might have a slightly novel take on magic and faeries, but overall it's not worth the read.

Vizzerdrix
2010-04-08, 12:16 PM
Dear sir, you have your terms confused here. You are speaking of gnomes, sir. But you are forgiven this one time; after all, the races share some mythological origin so it's a very human-like error. I understand one cannot choose, in which race one is born and as such, blood cannot be held accountable.

No no no silly. I like gnomes. They don't le about what they are, and they don't carry diseases and pests. Like elves do. All of them. Yes, even those ones.

Flickerdart
2010-04-08, 12:50 PM
No no no silly. I like gnomes. They don't le about what they are, and they don't carry diseases and pests. Like elves do. All of them. Yes, even those ones.
"Especially the women." :smallbiggrin:

LichPrinceAlim
2010-04-08, 01:00 PM
I adore one fey: Killoren. They just feel cool when played. I mean, NATURE ITSELF creates you as its guardsman?

I actually plan (should my Dragon Disciple die unfortunately) to play a Seelie Court Killoren Shaman/Druid

rayne_dragon
2010-04-08, 01:09 PM
Personally, I find most of the fey are based on mythology, so the best source for fluff is the myths themselves. Looking at old gaelic and celtic myths is a great source. Ars Magica, which was mentioned before, is well researched and last I checked the previous edition is available for download on the company's website.

As for elves... well, I dislike elves because they aren't fey enough. Eladrin being in 4e was a pleasant surpirse for me.

Kallisti
2010-04-08, 01:12 PM
Changeling: The Dreaming or Changeling: The Lost, for two very different takes on the Fey.

Or did you mean in D&D?

I'd look up some of Djinn In Tonic's homebrew, specifically the Guardian of the Hedge and the Seidkona of the Iron Bands. Also, the entire GITP Prestige Class Contest on the Fey.

As for official WOTC products, I don't think they ever did a fey-themed release for 3.5, although there are stats for various Fey monsters.

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 02:32 PM
I have two favored Fey - Petals, because they make awesome Warlocks, and Dusklings, because they're Nightcrawler. With Incarnum.


Seriously, I don't get all the hate of Elves. Yes their self-important, yes they're supposedly good at everything, but so are Humans (in D&D terms anyway).

Despite already being the best, humans still strive to be better. Elves are convinced of their superiority, even though they suck. That's why.


Racism against a nonexisting race...

...can't be racism, can it? :smalltongue:

The Tygre
2010-04-08, 03:01 PM
Once again, my third party publishing powers are called to the fore...

Alright, see if you can crack down on these:

Faeries by Bastion Press - This is -the- quintessential book to own on Fey if you really want to integrate faeries into your campaign. It's got it all; Fey lords like Titania and Oberon, details on the geography and effects of Faerie as a coterminous plane, new monsters, racial classes, magic, treasure, traditions; the works. Seriously, Wizards couldn't have done a better job themselves.

The Complete Guide to Fey by Goodman Games - This is if you want to go in a more abstract direction. Once again, there's a ton of classes and spells, but this is more interested in ideas with Fey. It goes on about how their existence relies on the fabric of reality, and how their basically the dreams of the world. A good book, definitely.

Encyclopedia Divine: Fey Magic by Mongoose Publishing - Forewarned; the art in this book is cheesecake. No, it goes beyond cheesecake; it's cheesecake with a dollop of cherry-cream cheese nestled gently in the small of a dryad's inner thighs. That said, this can more or less be considered a player's guide to Fey; it's mostly spells and prestige classes, as well as a bit of Fey theory at the front. The end details the importance of Fey pacts and Fey patrons, which can give a boost to power for a price.

Van Richten's Guide to Shadow Fey - Already recommended, but it bears worth repeating. While the Fey in Ravenloft aren't inherently malevolent, this is pretty much the closest you'll ever get to a book about the Unseelie. And really, they deserve it.

Those are all I've got for now.

Kaiyanwang
2010-04-08, 03:05 PM
...can't be racism, can it? :smalltongue:

Maybe you are right.. but in that case, a racism that is not racism has even less, if possible, reasons to be...


In topic, Some fey I love:



- Faun and Satyr, because they play instrument and get drunk

- Fossergrims and Glaistig because are just great roleplaying hooks, mainly love-linked

- Nymphs, Oreads and Driads because hey incarnate the beauty of nature

-Yuki-on-na and Frostwind Virago, , because it strikes me that something so cold can be so hot.

- Shadar-kai because they make seem drows and tiefling not enough dark

- Redcaps, Jermlains and Spriggans because are dirty, little bastards

- Ocean Striders and Wild Hunt because you couldn't imagine a fey can beat that hard

- Wendigo, Joystealer and Grey Jester because are scary

- Zeitgeist, Ragewalker and Splinterwaif because they teach us something

- Pixie, Petal and Domovoi because are cute (well, not only cute, as pointed out).

- LeShay and Nature Spirit because are just too awesome.

Eldariel
2010-04-08, 04:55 PM
No no no silly. I like gnomes. They don't le about what they are, and they don't carry diseases and pests. Like elves do. All of them. Yes, even those ones.

You must have talked to the wrong Elves then! Surely you know that Mialee is a mutant frog masquerading (poorly) as an Elf, right?

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 05:01 PM
You must have talked to the wrong Elves then! Surely you know that Mialee is a mutant frog masquerading (poorly) as an Elf, right?

That explains the fresh, non-elfy scent!

The Tygre
2010-04-08, 05:12 PM
You must have talked to the wrong Elves then! Surely you know that Mialee is a mutant frog masquerading (poorly) as an Elf, right?

She used to be a looker, back in Sigil Prep...

Agi Hammerthief
2010-04-08, 05:35 PM
Racisim? No no no. Like I said, elves are a disease, not a race.
what a nice Can Of Worms you got there,
that calls for a fail of Godwins Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) but I'll limit myself to just posting the term as a friendly request to not export that sort of thinking to RL.

or are you confusing Discworld Elves with D&D Elves?
though you are still wrong by using a false dilema, Discworld Elves are both.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-04-09, 11:22 AM
In topic, Some fey I love:




What about Killoren????

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 11:34 AM
Depending on the D&D source, elves have a fairly nasty record. In Faerun, the sun elves created an empire that was often more evil even than the drow.

Even before that, they created an epic spell which would compel dragons to ravage Faerun every few centuries.

I believe Dragonlance also has examples of appalling behaviour by elves.

And there might have been something in the 2nd ed elven handbook.

So, there are reasons for the "D&D elves are horrible" meme.

Optimystik
2010-04-09, 11:51 AM
Even before that, they created an epic spell which would compel dragons to ravage Faerun every few centuries.

...the hell? Why??

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 12:14 PM
To keep the dragons from building empires- before then, dragons ruled huge empires of humanoids. After the first Dracorage, the dragon empires collapsed.

Thus, without strong dragon empires as rivals, the elven empires grew.

Since then, dragons which build empires, tend to tear their own empires down during a Dracorage.

Optimystik
2010-04-09, 12:17 PM
...elves are *****.

(Not that dragons are much better.)

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 12:24 PM
Those particular elves were.

I'm not sure how accepted the decision to build the Dracorage was among the elven population though, or if they even knew about it. It could have been secret.

Still, its not the only skeleton in the closet of Faerun elves. Empire building, breeding programs to increase power by adding demonic blood (those elves were driven into hiding by the others though), and so on.

The war that ended with the drow driven underground, was actually started by the sun elves. Who had, later in the war, allied with an archdevil.

Yora
2010-04-09, 12:43 PM
They are probably the single most destructive race of all Faerūn.

In topic, Some fey I love:


-Yuki-on-na and Frostwind Virago, , because it strikes me that something so cold can be so hot.

One of the fun parts when learning new languages. Yuki onna may sound mysterious, but it just means Snow Woman.
I guess most of the fancy names are not much better if you know what they mean. :smallbiggrin:
Zeitgeist ist just silly.

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 12:49 PM
The creation of Evermeet was pretty destructive (entire nations save under the sea when the spell went wrong)- and even the gods stepping in couldn't stop the destruction- only ensure that it wasn't worse.

And there was the destruction of Jhaamdath, the human psionic empire- they waged war on the wild elves, cut down their forests, the few survivors raised a wave that drowned the whole empire and permanently reshaped the Inner Sea.

Generally it was more Sun Elves than Moon Elves or Wild Elves, though.

Kallisti
2010-04-09, 12:51 PM
...elves are *****.


This. But then, that's kind of the point of elves--they're so clearly superior, why should they care about the little humans:smallyuk:?

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 12:54 PM
Maybe it's big groups that does it- most of these cases involved a big elven empire.

That and High Magic- ordinary elves without that kind of power tend to be less jerkish.

The Tygre
2010-04-09, 02:07 PM
Zeitgeist ist just silly.

It's German for 'spirit of time' or 'spirit of the age'. Not sure how it came to represent the fey soul of a city, though.

Kaiyanwang
2010-04-09, 02:10 PM
They are probably the single most destructive race of all Faerūn.


One of the fun parts when learning new languages. Yuki onna may sound mysterious, but it just means Snow Woman.
I guess most of the fancy names are not much better if you know what they mean. :smallbiggrin:
Zeitgeist ist just silly.

I knew of yuki onna because of Ushio and Tora (manga, don't know how the title has been translated outside italy).

I agree on Zeitgeist, does not fit so much..

Lichprince: killoreen are cool, too. Point is, even if my players would declare that I'm a liar and I prefer dragons and fiends, fey are actually my favourite monsters.

Optimystik
2010-04-09, 02:13 PM
It's German for 'spirit of time' or 'spirit of the age'. Not sure how it came to represent the fey soul of a city, though.

Cities are the hub of cultural progress. The first zeitgeist, Desharis, (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) became a vestige - fairly interesting read.

Eldariel
2010-04-09, 03:19 PM
Depending on the D&D source, elves have a fairly nasty record. In Faerun, the sun elves created an empire that was often more evil even than the drow.

Even before that, they created an epic spell which would compel dragons to ravage Faerun every few centuries.

I believe Dragonlance also has examples of appalling behaviour by elves.

And there might have been something in the 2nd ed elven handbook.

So, there are reasons for the "D&D elves are horrible" meme.

I'm gonna keep loving any elves ever until eternity regardless. Fair folk are fair, if not in every meaning of the word. I mean, what's better, world ruled by Dragons or world ruled by humanoids? I'd rather pick the latter. And yeah, elves are often "*******s" in the sense that they don't place individuals over the whole and overlook the lesser humanoids that do. But yeah.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-04-10, 01:31 PM
the flawed assumption that races do exist, of course... :smallamused:win


Racisim? No no no. Like I said, elves are a disease, not a race.

And Kobold Bard-- They know what they did. :smallmad:Win

I think you refer to that dragonforce thread :smallcool:


You are speaking of gnomes, sir.Gnomes rock!

OP: fey blow. Sry

deep_well
2010-04-10, 02:15 PM
elves might (not saying they are) be better than humans, but how can they ignore the blatant fact the Kobolds are the best race! original pun-pun!

Greenish
2010-04-10, 02:57 PM
Slightly off-topic: Someone mentioned "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell" as a potential source. It might have a slightly novel take on magic and faeries, but overall it's not worth the read.YMMV (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YourMileageMayVary). I know many people dislike it, but really enjoyed it. (And I wasn't the only one either (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Strange_%26_Mr_Norrell#Reception).)

Myshlaevsky
2010-04-10, 03:12 PM
YMMV (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YourMileageMayVary). I know many people dislike it, but really enjoyed it. (And I wasn't the only one either (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Strange_%26_Mr_Norrell#Reception).)

I'd back that up. I found the book enjoyable enough to be worth reading.


You can go with realworld mythological background since it's quite congruent with the D&D mythos surrounding the fey."

I'd also back this up. If there's not an existing source in the system, go to the original material.