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shadow_archmagi
2010-04-08, 08:34 AM
So, if a power's only display is Mental (And mental displays are described as "A sort of pinging sound in your head") or Material (Which is described as "The target gets covered in astral slime") does that mean that no one can tell when or which psion is responsible it?

Or indeed, if psionics is uncommon, would they be unable to recognize it as magic at all?

Starbuck_II
2010-04-08, 08:44 AM
So, if a power's only display is Mental (And mental displays are described as "A sort of pinging sound in your head") or Material (Which is described as "The target gets covered in astral slime") does that mean that no one can tell when or which psion is responsible it?

Or indeed, if psionics is uncommon, would they be unable to recognize it as magic at all?

Well, if someone nearby they can still get an attack of opportunity (guy still let guard down), but otherwise yeah it would be hard to tell who did it.

Unless, you have Psicraft (psionic anlalog to spellcraft).

shadow_archmagi
2010-04-08, 08:45 AM
Oh god AoO's as witchcraft detectors



Commoner: I wonder why the king is on fire all of a sudden?

Commoner 2: I do not know but I felt like the guy next to me was REALLY punchable for a few seconds there.

Nidogg
2010-04-08, 08:57 AM
Shadow, you break the multiverse.

Yoou recive loot [Multiverse shard]

elonin
2010-04-08, 09:08 AM
Didn't Roy do that some time ago? I feel like I have an attack of opportunity and that guy didn't move so he must be casting a spell. Also, if the display is only mental then you'd have to have detect magic(psionics) up to get a chance at psi craft.

AbyssKnight
2010-04-08, 09:10 AM
Eh. Hiding the Displays is a fairly trivial Concentration check anyway.

strider24seven
2010-04-08, 09:16 AM
Yeah, any psionic character worth his salt hides his displays all the time. IIRC, there's no downside for hiding displays. If you fail the check, the display goes off.

Iferus
2010-04-08, 09:16 AM
By RAW, that is somewhat ambiguous.

I'd have the psion roll a bluff check opposed by spot checks to disguise the fact that he is taking an action. And an attack of opportunity would be in place because the psion is not actively defending, as he is taking a mental action. This lack of defence is easily noticed and will provoke attacks in melee combat.

shadow_archmagi
2010-04-08, 09:27 AM
By RAW, that is somewhat ambiguous.

I'd have the psion roll a bluff check opposed by spot checks to disguise the fact that he is taking an action. And an attack of opportunity would be in place because the psion is not actively defending, as he is taking a mental action. This lack of defence is easily noticed and will provoke attacks in melee combat.

In a fight, yes. It makes total sense that you could say "Hey, that guy isn't really paying much attention to me. BAM! Blindsided!"


However, at, say, a coronation speech? Or a fancy dinner?

ghost_warlock
2010-04-08, 09:35 AM
However, manifesting defensively denies the AoO and thereby the detection. Every psion worth his salt manifests defensively where appropriate, too.

strider24seven
2010-04-08, 09:59 AM
The key words there are "where appropriate."

Since casting defensively has the possibility of the spell failing (but not on a natural 1):

With a CON score of 14, most Psychic Warriors can manifest defensively all the time by level 14, and Psions by level 17.

Most psionic characters have to pick and choose when to manifest defensively before that point without CON- or Concentration-boosting items. Unless they took Combat Manifesting, but, really, who takes that feat?

Eldariel
2010-04-08, 10:24 AM
Most psionic characters have to pick and choose when to manifest defensively before that point without CON- or Concentration-boosting items. Unless they took Combat Manifesting, but, really, who takes that feat?

Doesn't everyone pick Con-boost items right after boosts to their primary stat tho?

ghost_warlock
2010-04-08, 10:25 AM
There's also the Single-Minded personality for the psicrystal. And throwaway skill shards for a one-shot assassination-type mission. Third-eye of Concentrate is pricey for low-level characters but virtually guarantees success for manifesting low-level powers.

Concentration checks are not hard.

@v: Holy crap...that's awesome! All these years playing psionic characters and I'd never noticed that part of psionic focus before! O.o

The Glyphstone
2010-04-08, 10:29 AM
And for that matter, don't forget that expending Psionic Focus is an automatic roll of 15 on any Concentration check. Assuming you didn't intend to use metapsionics on that power, it's literally impossible to fail a defensive casting check for any power you're capable of manifesting if you spend focus.

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 10:38 AM
So, if a power's only display is Mental (And mental displays are described as "A sort of pinging sound in your head") or Material (Which is described as "The target gets covered in astral slime") does that mean that no one can tell when or which psion is responsible it?

The sound radiates out from the manifester (to 15 feet), so they can reasonably pinpoint the source.
The entire point of the displays is to give onlookers (particularly psionic ones) some way of figuring out who is responsible.


Concentration checks are not hard.

Indeed - especially when expending your focus lets you take 15.


Oh god AoO's as witchcraft detectors

I don't think it makes sense to get an AoO if you're not already hostile to the caster/manifester.

Draz74
2010-04-08, 10:46 AM
Assuming you didn't intend to use metapsionics on that power, it's literally impossible to fail a defensive casting check for any power you're capable of manifesting if you spend focus.

Well, if you have a decent number of ranks in Concentration. :smallwink:

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 10:48 AM
Not to mention a Con bonus.

Metapsionics aren't a huge problem either - use your psicrystal's focus instead. Elans also get Elan Retainment, or a Synad can use his split mind to recover his focus.

Adding in Hyperconscious gives you even more options, such as one of my favorite feats, Permanent Focus.

ghost_warlock
2010-04-08, 10:49 AM
Well, if you have a decent number of ranks in Concentration. :smallwink:

Without any Con-bonus, 9 ranks (or 6 ranks and Single-minded psicrystal) is all you'd need to auto-succeed on 9th-level powers.

strider24seven
2010-04-08, 10:57 AM
Of course, in order pull off that combo, you'd need to be at least in a midlevel game. You'd need:
Psionic Meditation (and WIS 13): To regain your focus in combat
Psicrystal Containment (and Obtain Psicrystal): To use your Psicrystal's focus

But otherwise, you no longer provoke AND don't display. You are what the Unseen Seer wanted to be.

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 01:45 PM
Of course, in order pull off that combo, you'd need to be at least in a midlevel game. You'd need:
Psionic Meditation (and WIS 13): To regain your focus in combat
Psicrystal Containment (and Obtain Psicrystal): To use your Psicrystal's focus

But otherwise, you no longer provoke AND don't display. You are what the Unseen Seer wanted to be.

How do you define "midlevel?"

An Erudite/Psychic Warrior (any race) can pull this off at level 4, as well as a human Ardent.