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Voice of Reason
2010-04-08, 10:57 AM
For one of the games I'm aiming to play in, I'm heavily considering 9 levels into the Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b) class. Basically, I would have the ability to choose spells from the class lists of any arcane or divine caster class. Therefore, my question to you fine people in the playground: "What Arcane/Divine spell(s) (levels 1-6) do you consider the best?" Feel free to use whatever criteria you feel the "best" spell(s) should have.

Draz74
2010-04-08, 10:59 AM
Haste. The Trapsmith version that's a Level 1 spell.

strider24seven
2010-04-08, 11:06 AM
Look at the Ranger and Paladin lists. They get a LOT of spells at a lower level than clerics. Particularly the Sword of the Arcane Order Mystic Ranger, IIRC.

Nidogg
2010-04-08, 11:07 AM
Disintigrate is the best core damage spell but direct damage sucks so... ynow.
Phantasmal killer, overland flight , baleful polymorph ,mass ability boost (bears, cat, fox, ect) , tensers, telekenisies, polymorph (I LIKe transmutaion) Dominate/ charm (cos minions are always good) resurection/ raise dead (Read free saftey net) Entangle, polymorph. Think thats a few...

strider24seven
2010-04-08, 11:09 AM
What is/are your base class(es)?

If you have 3 levels of Duskblade, then any touch spell rocks for you. Just as an example.

Gnaeus
2010-04-08, 11:57 AM
Are you starting at Chameleon 9? Or planning on working up to there in your build?

My chameleon (who is not that high level yet) gets a lot of use out of the Primal spells from Dragon Magic. You get them all 1-2 levels early off the ranger list, so 1 spell each 1st-4th levels. If you cast all 4, you get:

+5 on Climb, Swim, Survival, Jump, Listen, Spot
+5 initiative
+5 reflex saves
+10 enhancement bonus to all speeds
Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge
Low light vision

If you are dragonblooded type, you also get
Blindsense 10
+5 on a knowledge skill of your choice which you are considered trained in for the duration

Best of all, they all last 24 hours per casting, so you can take divine focus in the morning, cast them all (and a bunch of other hour/level buffs) then switch your focus to arcane. Or if you really have time to plan, you can take extend spell as your floating feat and cast them all the day before you go into combat.

Emmerask
2010-04-08, 12:12 PM
dmg wise fire seeds are pretty nice 10th level druid 8d8 + 80 dmg (put them in a sack with some stones so you can throw them all at once)

Voice of Reason
2010-04-08, 12:21 PM
For those of you asking specifically about that build I'm running, it's currently set at changeling rogue/4 scout/1 chameleon/9 for the trapfinding and social skills skill monkey. This can change, though. Spells I've been looking into have been the primal spell set from dragon magic, the "heart of" spells from complete arcane, and Glibness, a must-have 3rd level bard spell. The above suggestions are being incorporated into my plots though, thank you. Keep 'em coming.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-08, 12:28 PM
Bards get some spells a little earlier than Wiz/Sor. Might look there.

Theres that Sorcerer one: Wings of Something, that is supposed to be pretty powerful.

reptilecobra13
2010-04-08, 12:31 PM
Shivering Touch from Frostburn. 3d6 Dex damage with no save. It's so powerful that we houseruled it to have a fort save for half, otherwise you can drop a dragon with one spell.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-04-08, 12:52 PM
Shivering Touch from Frostburn. 3d6 Dex damage with no save. It's so powerful that we houseruled it to have a fort save for half, otherwise you can drop a dragon with one spell.

what level spell is that!?

And I suggest subtle spells such as Burning Blood (4th) and others like that, that are more subtle than something like an Exploding Delayed Blast Quickened Fireball...

Though nothing in my book beats the fun of Suggestion. Suggestion + Subtle death = loophole

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-08, 01:00 PM
what level spell is that!?...

3rd Cle//Wiz/Sor

LichPrinceAlim
2010-04-08, 01:04 PM
3rd Cle//Wiz/Sor


CRAP!!!!!

I really need a 4th level slot...

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-08, 01:05 PM
...I really need a 4th level slot...

You can use higher level slots for lower level spells

LichPrinceAlim
2010-04-08, 01:07 PM
You can use higher level slots for lower level spells

I didn't know that... I NEVER play casters. Ever. I play monk 60% of the time. the 39% is devoted to Sohei/Barbarian

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-08, 01:11 PM
The spell you are looking for k-bard is wings of flurry, Sorc 4, 1d6/cl without cap damage in a 30 ft radius, reflex for half. and IIRC also dazes the ones who fail the sabe, it is also [Force] so it affects incorporeal cratures.
Sorc 4


also wings of cover, swift action gives you total cover, useful for breaking LoE and also is an imediate action, so you can use it to defend againts nasty effects.

Sorc 2

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-08, 01:16 PM
I didn't know that... I NEVER play casters. Ever. I play monk 60% of the time. the 39% is devoted to Sohei/Barbarian

Well yeah, if you wanna fill your Level 4 slots with "weaker" spells then that's your perogative.

^-Yep, them's the ones.

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 02:35 PM
I didn't know that... I NEVER play casters. Ever. I play monk 60% of the time. the 39% is devoted to Sohei/Barbarian

You poor, deprived soul.


Look at the Ranger and Paladin lists. They get a LOT of spells at a lower level than clerics. Particularly the Sword of the Arcane Order Mystic Ranger, IIRC.

Which is why you play an Archivist, and cast those low-level spells with your full CL. And Battle Blessing. :smalltongue:

reptilecobra13
2010-04-08, 02:43 PM
CRAP!!!!!

I really need a 4th level slot...

Hahaha. That was kind of our reaction when we found that spell.

arguskos
2010-04-08, 02:51 PM
Soooo, why has no one mentioned Streamers yet? Oh, right, cause it's brokentastic.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-08, 02:55 PM
Soooo, why has no one mentioned Streamers yet? Oh, right, cause it's brokentastic.
Care to elaborate please?

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 03:01 PM
Care to elaborate please?

Streamers is a spell from Shining South - widely regarded as the most powerful damaging Evocation in the game. It's a ranged touch attack, can target multiple opponents or focus on one, and continues attacking foes without any direction from you for rounds/level if they take any action at all. Each ribbon deals 5d10 per hit, and the spell even uses your BAB, therefore getting iteratives.

The spell is on both the cleric and wiz/sor lists (5th level.)

Merk
2010-04-08, 03:10 PM
Bards get Irresistible Dance at 6th and Hold Person at 2nd, instead of the Sor/Wiz standards of 8th and 3rd, respectively.

Godskook
2010-04-08, 03:11 PM
Streamers is a spell from Shining South - widely regarded as the most powerful damaging Evocation in the game. It's a ranged touch attack, can target multiple opponents or focus on one, and continues attacking foes without any direction from you for rounds/level if they take any action at all. Each ribbon deals 5d10 per hit, and the spell even uses your BAB, therefore getting iteratives.

The spell is on both the cleric and wiz/sor lists (5th level.)

I just found my Sorcadin's combat opening spell. Wow that's powerful. Considering he's gestalt with 18 BAB, ouch!

Optimystik
2010-04-08, 03:20 PM
I just found my Sorcadin's combat opening spell. Wow that's powerful. Considering he's gestalt with 18 BAB, ouch!

It gets worse - you launch 1 extra streamer every 3 levels after 9th. At 18th level, your sorcerer would be launching the maximum of 4 streamers, each one lasting for 18 rounds. If they all focus on one opponent, that would be 5d10*16 (4 attacks per ribbon with your BAB) of untyped damage each round, if your opponent so much as sneezes. And they would stay on him for 18 rounds.

Range medium, no saving throw. Who says Evocation doesn't get nice things?

Oh, they also follow the target if he runs.

Emmerask
2010-04-08, 03:55 PM
that is pretty impressive and scary :smalleek:

FMArthur
2010-04-08, 06:15 PM
Careful reading will put a damper on your fun; you only get to prepare and cast your spells from one class's spell list at a time. It can be a different one each time you enter Arcane/Divine Focus, but you can't cast Bard and Wizard spells alongside one another. Also be careful that classes you're trying to grab spells off of have their own lists; an Archivist may have access to all Divine spells in theory, but in the end is only using other classes' lists, and spell lists are all that matters to the Chameleon class.

Gnaeus
2010-04-08, 06:31 PM
Careful reading will put a damper on your fun; you only get to prepare and cast your spells from one class's spell list at a time. It can be a different one each time you enter Arcane/Divine Focus, but you can't cast Bard and Wizard spells alongside one another. Also be careful that classes you're trying to grab spells off of have their own lists; an Archivist may have access to all Divine spells in theory, but in the end is only using other classes' lists, and spell lists are all that matters to the Chameleon class.

Thats an interesting RAI there, but it could just as easily be interpreted as letting you cast from different lists with the same focus.

It says "You gain the ability to prepare and cast (arcane/divine) spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any (arcane/divine) spellcasting class." It doesn't say that you have to pick a class when you choose the focus, or that your spells must all be from the same class, or anything like that. A mean DM could do that to you and be in RAW, but Chameleons aren't OP without such a ruling.

Kallisti
2010-04-08, 06:31 PM
Am I seriously in before Celerity?

Because Celerity. Celerity is very cheesy. It will let you win many battles if your GM will allow it.

arguskos
2010-04-08, 06:37 PM
Oops I accidentally Celerity? :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, I forgot to mention that one too. I like Greater Celerity myself. Though, if we're including Celerity, I'd like to toss out Favor of the Martyr, one of the few ways to be immune to Dazing.

Thrawn183
2010-04-08, 06:53 PM
Just for some differences: Giant Vermin and Poison. As far as summoning spells for massive tanks go, it's tough to beat a 4th level spell for a colossal monstrous scorpion. As far as high saving throws go, the DC for Poison scales off of caster level instead of the spell level, making it the equivalent of a 9th level spell for you.

Just a different take on things ;)

Andras
2010-04-09, 02:52 AM
Am I seriously in before Celerity?

Because Celerity. Celerity is very cheesy. It will let you win many battles if your GM will allow it.

Honestly, I didn't even consider it, because I can't think of a DM that would allow it.

TheMadLinguist
2010-04-09, 03:40 AM
Contact Other Plane.

Mystic Muse
2010-04-09, 03:44 AM
Honestly, I didn't even consider it, because I can't think of a DM that would allow it.

ooh! ooh! I know this one!

My DM. at least I think he would. That would kind of require me to be able to find the thing. He also has never expressly forbid any spells when he asked me to make a wizard Cohort.

JaronK
2010-04-09, 03:50 AM
Honestly, I didn't even consider it, because I can't think of a DM that would allow it.

My DMs have all allowed celerity, for what it's worth.

JaronK

Killer Angel
2010-04-09, 04:01 AM
Must have?
Contingency (because to survive is good)
Heal (the only useful cure spell in-combat. Also against undead)
Glibness (bluff your way out of everywhere)

Optimystik
2010-04-09, 06:21 AM
That would kind of require me to be able to find the thing.

Do you mean in-game, or in the books? If it's the latter, the Celerity line is in PHB2.


Must have?
Contingency (because to survive is good)
Heal (the only useful cure spell in-combat. Also against undead)
Glibness (bluff your way out of everywhere)

All of which are available to Archivists :smallbiggrin:

*wonders why Contingency is in the Kobold domain. Is WotC trying to acknowledge their brokenness?*

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-09, 01:09 PM
Heal is a 6th level Adept spell.

Draz74
2010-04-09, 01:27 PM
Heal is a 6th level Adept spell.

If that were true, it would be nothing special, since Heal is a 6th-level Cleric spell.

However, Heal is a 5th-level Adept spell, which is indeed noteworthy. :smallbiggrin:

mikej
2010-04-09, 01:33 PM
Hunter's Eye [2nd lv Ranger/PHB II] is pretty decent if you want some extra Sneak Attack.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-09, 01:33 PM
If that were true, it would be nothing special, since Heal is a 6th-level Cleric spell.

However, Heal is a 5th-level Adept spell, which is indeed noteworthy. :smallbiggrin:

That's what I meant :smallredface:

Dark_Juggernaut
2010-09-09, 04:30 PM
Streamers is a spell from Shining South - widely regarded as the most powerful damaging Evocation in the game. It's a ranged touch attack, can target multiple opponents or focus on one, and continues attacking foes without any direction from you for rounds/level if they take any action at all. Each ribbon deals 5d10 per hit, and the spell even uses your BAB, therefore getting iteratives.

The spell is on both the cleric and wiz/sor lists (5th level.)

If you read the spell, it says nothing about getting extra iteratives just because it uses your BAB. It states it has a readied touch attack (not readied full round attack). It CAN however, strike multiple times since it states ANY action, including move, swift, immidiate, or free in addition to standard actions. Sadly your enemies need only get hit once attacking it's AC 20 and hit to kill it.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-09, 04:51 PM
If that were true, it would be nothing special, since Heal is a 6th-level Cleric spell.

However, Heal is a 5th-level Adept spell, which is indeed noteworthy. :smallbiggrin:

IIRC, the healer class(miniature's handbook) also has a few healing based spells at lower than usual levels. Worth considering.

Icewraith
2010-09-09, 05:02 PM
If you want to get sneak attack back I believe Nightstalker's Transformation (Sor/Wiz 5) would work. Just use it after you're out of the other fun spells.

Also ennervation (4), Draconic Polymorph (5, assuming your dm hasn't houseruled/banned Polymorph), and Animate Dead (3?). What you really need at that point is a spell named "Call (not summon) Learnean Pyrohydra," but I think you'll have to research it or hunt the buggers the old-fashined way.

Also: solid fog/freezing fog
Glitterdust (2) and nerveskitter (1) for low level spells.

Edit: Regarding streamers, stremer destructibility is why it's best to target one target with multiple streamers, preferably one with low melee damage and without iterative attacks (i.e. arcane spellcaster).

Vaynor
2010-09-10, 12:17 AM
The Red Towel: Thread necromancy.