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Lycanthromancer
2010-04-08, 06:40 PM
A friend of mine wants to build a focused specialist wizard/war weaver/master specialist (in both abjuration and either illusion or transmutation, for lots of buffage), and I could've sworn there was a prestige class that gave you specialization in abjuration even if you specialized in something else already, kind of like the changeling specialist wizard ACF that lets you do transmutation and illusion.

I Googled, but to no avail.

All official 3.5 sources are available except for Dragon and web enhancements - aside from The Mind's Eye, which is allowed (and WE's are allowed on a case by case basis). We're starting at level 11, and he wants to play a naga-esque race that gets a +2 bonus to Dex and Int and lets him turn into a snake/person/snake-person hybrid. We're playing in City of the Spider Queen, and are joining a game already in progress (it's heavy on melee-types, and I'm a synad shaper/constructor that's been grafted on and driven insane by illithids, in case it matters).

Anyone got any ideas?

Private-Prinny
2010-04-08, 06:48 PM
You're looking for Incantatrix (MoF). It gives you brokentastic metamagic.

arguskos
2010-04-08, 06:50 PM
You're looking for Incantatrix (PGtF). It gives you brokentastic metamagic.
...no he's not. Incantrix doesn't actually SPECIALIZE you in Abjuration. He wants something that gives you a specific specialization into Abjuration, even though you aren't specialized for it normally.

AmberVael
2010-04-08, 06:52 PM
School Specialization: Upon becoming an incantatrix, the character chooses to focus her studies on protective and metamagic, forsaking other types of spells. In effect, the incantatrix is a specialist in the school of Abjuration (gaining all the benefits of specializing in a school), and the incantatrix must choose an additional prohibited school or schools using the rules on page 54 of the Player's Handbook (although an incantatrix can never choose Transmutation as an opposed school). The incantatrix can never again learn spells from that prohibited school or schools. She can still use the prohibited spells she knew prior to becoming an incantatrix, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger. If the incantatrix already is a wizard specialized in Abjuration, she does not need to choose another prohibited school. A bard or sorcerer who becomes an incantatrix must still choose a prohibited school to gain the benefits of specialization.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010803

Yes, it actually does give you Abjuration specialization.

Evard
2010-04-08, 06:57 PM
you could gestalt 2 specialist wizards? i guess...

transmuter wizard/ abjuraton wizard, they are different classes... err technically?

sofawall
2010-04-08, 06:59 PM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010803

Yes, it actually does give you Abjuration specialization.

Arguskos was talking about the PGtF version, as Private-Prinny said in the post he quoted. You know, the 3.5 legal one?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-08, 07:07 PM
I believe lycanthromancer, what you are refering is to the Dual specialization racial sub level for changelings found in Races of Eberron.

The thing is that it gives you Illussion & transmutation IIRC, not anjurations as you want.

sofawall
2010-04-08, 07:08 PM
kind of like the changeling specialist wizard ACF that lets you do transmutation and illusion.


No, I think he wants something kind of like it.

AmberVael
2010-04-08, 07:08 PM
Arguskos was talking about the PGtF version, as Private-Prinny said in the post he quoted. You know, the 3.5 legal one?

Ah, I suppose it was my bad not to try and look it up in the actual books to make sure the excerpt matched. I'm not as familiar with Incantatrix due to everyone calling it stinky cheese and thus never bothering to look it up thoroughly.

That said, that link is probably what he was thinking about, even if it is out of date.

Anyway, I can't really imagine getting a second specialization to be all that bad, as long as you give something up for it. It doesn't sound too much different than Focused Specialist from Complete Mage.

If you allowed someone to specialize in a second school of magic, giving up a third school to do so... hm, probably would be more powerful that focused specialist, given that it doesn't tie up spell slots as much. Giving up four schools total would likely be too much though. Still, I think if you were willing to work around with the concept and homebrew something, it might make an okay alternate class feature once properly balanced.

arguskos
2010-04-08, 07:20 PM
Yeah, sofa's got the dark of it. Right hende basher, that one for sure. To the 'trix, it's a bloodbath true enough.

Lycanthromancer, I think you're barmy as a spire god on this one. Not sure I tumble to anything that fits with ya.

A cookie to anyone who deciphers the above.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-08, 07:27 PM
Yeah, sofa's got the dark of it. Right hende basher, that one for sure. To the 'trix, it's a bloodbath true enough.

Lycanthromancer, I think you're barmy as a spire god on this one. Not sure I tumble to anything that fits with ya.This is worse. (http://rustyandco.com/comic/16/)

Anyway, thanks for your help. I showed him the excerpt about the incantatrix, and he's going to see about a 1-level dip for that (asking the DM if it's okay to take just for the dual-specialization).

We'll see what happens.

arguskos
2010-04-08, 07:28 PM
Save that what I posted comes from somewhere. :smallcool: That's just a REALLY thick accent.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-08, 08:09 PM
I suggested a focused specialist wizard 5/incantatrix 1/master specialist 1/war weaver 5/master specialist 9. I don't know if the master specialist abilities are retroactive, so I waited until level 7, just to be safe.

Of course, if they ARE retroactive, he could just take wizard 2 (with Precocious Apprentice)/master specialist 3/incantatrix 1/war weaver 5/master specialist 7/something else 2 (probably archmage).

He wants to be able to spam lots of protective spells whenever needed, since City of the Spider Queen is gonna have lots of illithids added (due to my presence :smallsmile:).

What do you guys think?

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-08, 08:37 PM
I'm gonna suggest Master Specialist 4 only. Precocious Apprentice isn't needed if he waits till 3rd level. 7 doesn't give that much, and if he's an Abjurer he'll actually want the capstone (so going for 7th only is rather weak).



Also, Paragnostic Apostle levels to get their Ability Enhancer. Nothing says useful like another +2 from Enhancement bonuses.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-08, 08:51 PM
I'm gonna suggest Master Specialist 4 only. Precocious Apprentice isn't needed if he waits till 3rd level. 7 doesn't give that much, and if he's an Abjurer he'll actually want the capstone (so going for 7th only is rather weak).



Also, Paragnostic Apostle levels to get their Ability Enhancer. Nothing says useful like another +2 from Enhancement bonuses.I meant +7, then, as in, another 7 levels (to finish out the PrC).

Also, he really doesn't like taking levels in lots of classes; it took me a lot of persuading to get him to take that many. I figure that having an uber-buffer on our side will likely improve our survivability.

Also, having master specialist give benefits for abjuration and illusion or transmutation would be a fair bit nicer than just abjuration, so...

monkey3
2010-04-09, 02:12 PM
I could've sworn there was a prestige class that gave you specialization in abjuration even if you specialized in something else already, kind of like the changeling specialist wizard ACF that lets you do transmutation and illusion.

I Googled, but to no avail.


What you are looking for is called Dual Specialization.
It is on page 123 of Races of Eberron.

QuantumSteve
2010-04-09, 02:16 PM
If you allowed someone to specialize in a second school of magic, giving up a third school to do so... hm, probably would be more powerful that focused specialist, given that it doesn't tie up spell slots as much. Giving up four schools total would likely be too much though. Still, I think if you were willing to work around with the concept and homebrew something, it might make an okay alternate class feature once properly balanced.

You could give two specialist slots in each school, and forfeit two universal slots. Much like focused specialist does.

Dr Bwaa
2010-04-09, 02:21 PM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010803

Yes, it actually does give you Abjuration specialization.

This is 3.0 for a reason. It was updated in PGtF, and no longer gives dual specialization (but you still have to give up an extra school). You are looking for the thing in RoE, as a couple people have pointed out.

AbyssKnight
2010-04-09, 06:11 PM
Since you said Illusion was one possibility, your buddy could go enter the Nightmare Spinner PrC from Complete Mage. It lets you prepare 1 extra Illusion spell per level (which is the reason to specialize).

You only need to take 1 level to get the benefit, but since the class is 4/5 casting you don't get a casting bump with only 1 level.

sofawall
2010-04-09, 10:15 PM
What you are looking for is called Dual Specialization.
It is on page 123 of Races of Eberron.

You are looking for the thing in RoE, as a couple people have pointed out.


kind of like the changeling specialist wizard ACF that lets you do transmutation and illusion.

I think he knows about that. He wants something similar to it.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-09, 10:39 PM
I think he knows about that. He wants something similar to it.I think the DM is allowing a single-level dip in incantatrix to allow him to double-specialize, so it's all good.

Also, he's playing an EVIL war weaver build. All the better to mind-control us, apparently.