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View Full Version : Best fluff of all the 3.5 And 4th books?



Otogi
2010-04-09, 02:36 PM
I'm pretty convinced it's the Tome of Magic for 3.5, but it's harder to pick in 4e. It's either the PHB or the first Draconomicon. What do you guys think?

Yora
2010-04-09, 03:12 PM
Please elaborate what you want to hear from us?

Dr Bwaa
2010-04-09, 03:16 PM
I think the fluff on Chaos Magic (3.0 and Mongoose, but whatever. SUBVERTED.) is fantastic. The book itself was obviously playtested and proofread by a bunch of anemic spider monkeys on heroine, but the fluff is awesome.

Optimystik
2010-04-09, 03:23 PM
"Best fluff" is very subjective, but I agree that Tome of Magic is very nice in this regard.

This is especially jarring with regards to the Truenamer - the most bizarre combination of excellent fluff and horrible mechanics I've ever seen.

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-09, 03:23 PM
4e, I'd have to say Psionics, because being the world's autoimmune response to the Far Realms because The Burning Hate opened the door to them is pretty neat.

3.5... going with Pact magic (ToM), screw your complex learnings and elaborate gestures, I'mma get magics the easy way!

Optimystik
2010-04-09, 03:31 PM
4e, I'd have to say Psionics, because being the world's autoimmune response to the Far Realms because The Burning Hate opened the door to them is pretty neat.

I agree, that was a very nice part of 4e. :smallbiggrin:


3.5... going with Pact magic (ToM), screw your complex learnings and elaborate gestures, I'mma get magics the easy way!

Easy? Binders give the DM a license to screw with them at every opportunity. You can be forced to roleplay the binding check, and suffer the penalties for a poor performance. :smalltongue:

arguskos
2010-04-09, 03:32 PM
Tome of Magic, hands freaking down. After that, Lost Empires of Faerun, for having such an amazingly rich and detailed history that was somehow engaging at the same time.

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-09, 03:35 PM
Easy? Binders give the DM a license to screw with them at every opportunity. You can be forced to roleplay the binding check, and suffer the penalties for a poor performance. :smalltongue:

The fluff on binding is very specific on that it is remarkably easy to do, all you need to do is squiggle a pattern on the floor and call out a name, if you're worthy, they appear.

Gorbash
2010-04-09, 04:14 PM
4e, I'd have to say Psionics, because being the world's autoimmune response to the Far Realms because The Burning Hate opened the door to them is pretty neat.

I'm not at all familiar with 4e, so could someone elaborate on this for me?

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-09, 04:20 PM
I'm not at all familiar with 4e, so could someone elaborate on this for me?

tl;dr

Mysterious gate out in the astral sea, guarded by something neither God nor Primordial. Pelor, Ioun, and an unnamed god sneak past the guardian and peek into the gate. They end up swearing to never speak of what they saw, or to seek out the gate.

Some time later, one of those three came back and killed the guardian, which woke up the gate. Cue Far Realm invasion, which was stopped by shattering the gate, destroying Pelor's divine realm in the process.

After this, psionics began to appear in the world. Nobody knows for sure why, but the most popular theory is that it's reality's way of fighting off the unreality of the Far Realm.

Optimystik
2010-04-09, 04:21 PM
The fluff on binding is very specific on that it is remarkably easy to do, all you need to do is squiggle a pattern on the floor and call out a name, if you're worthy, they appear.

Yes, you are guaranteed the pact. You are not guaranteed a good pact however, and a bad pact at the wrong time can make your life (and your party's) considerably difficult.

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-09, 04:22 PM
Yes, you are guaranteed the pact. You are not guaranteed a good pact however, and a bad pact at the wrong time can make your life (and your party's) considerably difficult.

There are the occasional complications, yes, but it is still far easier than spending years learning to fling bat poo.

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 04:25 PM
In the section of PHB3 on how the psionic power source came into being, it mentions the Living Gate, first found by Pelor, and woken by Ioun. It had a guadian, but a third nameless god distracted the guardian so all three could catch a glimpse through the Living Gate.

They took a vow never to speak of what they saw.

At some point later, in the Dawn War between the gods and the primordials, one of three (assumed by scholars to probably be the nameless god) returned and killed the guardian, causing the Living Gate to open.

The resulting eruption of energy (and alien invasion) destroyed several astral realms before Pelor & Ioun shattered the gate (at the cost of Pelor's verdant dominion)

Around this time, psionic powers first started to be seen.

Of the several theories as to why:

"Others, including most practicioners of the psionic arts, believe that their power is the world's response to the intrusion of the Far Realm, similar to a mortal body's reaction to disease"

So, it is one theory. There are others though.

EDIT: Ninjaed.

peacenlove
2010-04-09, 04:31 PM
Tome of Magic, hands freaking down. After that, Lost Empires of Faerun, for having such an amazingly rich and detailed history that was somehow engaging at the same time.

Gonna second this opinion and add the forgotten realms campaign setting for i have spent nights reading this book for almost 10 years :smallbiggrin:

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 04:42 PM
Forgotten Realms sourcebooks in general tend to be fun (even though which have not-so-good rules).

arguskos
2010-04-09, 04:43 PM
Forgotten Realms sourcebooks in general tend to be fun (even though which have not-so-good rules).
It's a byproduct of one man giving his life to the world (Ed Greenwood). If you give a single thing that level of dedication, it's gonna turn out very intricate and detailed, which is awesome to read and learn about.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-09, 04:48 PM
Personally I like Magic of Incarnum.

Yes I just hit you with my soul, you have a problem with that? :smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2010-04-09, 04:53 PM
There are the occasional complications, yes, but it is still far easier than spending years learning to fling bat poo.

Bat poo becomes remarkably normal next to some of the squick Binders have to deal with. :smalltongue:

Oh, and the more I read of Eberron, the more I like it, as well.

Godskook
2010-04-09, 04:54 PM
Tome of Battle.

Starscream
2010-04-09, 04:54 PM
Not a whole book, but my favorite bit of D&D Fluff of all time is the explanation in RoTW for why a race that worships a Lawful Good deity like the halflings tends to produce so many thieves and scoundrels.

Seems that back in the day, Yondalla had a bit of a naughty side (not like that, you pervs). When it came time for her to create a race, she couldn't decide what their theme would be, so she stole the bits she liked from all of the other races (adaptability from humans, courage from orcs, loyalty from dwarves, free-spiritedness from elves, etc) and infused them in a pixie to create the first halfling.

The other gods were ticked off that she had robbed them, but Yondalla smooth talked them out of punishing her by claiming she just did it because all their ideas were just so darn good. So all the gods did was force her to to remove the larcenous streak from her own personality, leaving her pure LG forevermore.

She did, and it became a deity itself named Dallah Thaun. DT is Chaotic Neutral, but because she is from a part of Yondalla they share the same thoughts and memories. They are literally two side of the same being.

So ever since halflings have been able to be CN while claiming with a straight face (even under magical compulsion) that they worship a lawful good goddess. That is an awesome explanation for their cultural tendencies, and one reason I love playing halflings.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-09, 04:59 PM
Not a whole book, but my favorite bit of D&D Fluff of all time is the explanation in RoTW for why a race that worships a Lawful Good deity like the halflings tends to produce so many thieves and scoundrels.

Seems that back in the day, Yondalla had a bit of a naughty side (not like that, you pervs). When it came time for her to create a race, she couldn't decide what their theme would be, so she stole the bits she liked from all of the other races (adaptability from humans, courage from orcs, loyalty from dwarves, free-spiritedness from elves, etc) and infused them in a pixie to create the first halfling.

The other gods were ticked off that she had robbed them, but Yondalla smooth talked them out of punishing her by claiming she just did it because all their ideas were just so darn good. So all the gods did was force her to to remove the larcenous streak from her own personality, leaving her pure LG forevermore.

She did, and it became a deity itself named Dalla Thaun. DT is Chaotic Neutral, but because she is from a part of Yondalla they share the same thoughts and memories. They are literally two side of the same being.

So ever since halflings have been able to be CN while claiming with a straight face (even under magical compulsion) that they worship a lawful good goddess. That is an awesome explanation for their cultural tendencies, and one reason I love playing halflings.

That is awesome.

Tehnar
2010-04-09, 05:07 PM
I rather liked Races of the Dragon (for the Kobold fluff, dang why did they not do the same with Orcs / Goblins). The Lords of Madness is always a good read, as well as both Fiendish codex'es (part 2 more then part 1, but both are good).

Morty
2010-04-09, 05:26 PM
Best fluff? Hard to say, I have a firm belief there's no such thing as "good fluff" anyway. But I know I really liked the preface to Magic of Faerun in which Khelben Arunsun explained that magic is neither a tool nor a toy and that he despises those who use it as such. That's for 3rd edition. I know little about 4ed fluff, but I like the primordials vs. gods thing from the core books.

Godskook
2010-04-09, 06:20 PM
Best fluff? Hard to say, I have a firm belief there's no such thing as "good fluff" anyway. But I know I really liked the preface to Magic of Faerun in which Khelben Arunsun explained that magic is neither a tool nor a toy and that he despises those who use it as such. That's for 3rd edition. I know little about 4ed fluff, but I like the primordials vs. gods thing from the core books.

There's another option?

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-09, 06:23 PM
There's another option?

An ally maybe? I've never read it, but this seems like what it's getting at.

arguskos
2010-04-09, 06:26 PM
Khelben feels that magic is an art form, and should be respected as such. His logic is that since magic in Faerun directly stems from a god (who was once a human woman), one should respect it as you would a king or dragon, not abuse it for your own ends. Use it with respect, treat it as an art. There's a reason the Realms calls arcane magic The Art, after all.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-09, 06:36 PM
Khelben feels that magic is an art form, and should be respected as such. His logic is that since magic in Faerun directly stems from a god (who was once a human woman), one should respect it as you would a king or dragon, not abuse it for your own ends. Use it with respect, treat it as an art. There's a reason the Realms calls arcane magic The Art, after all.

If thats the case? why does the most abusive arcane magic using class comes from the realms? I am talking about Incantrix


:smalltongue:

arguskos
2010-04-09, 06:39 PM
Because the Incantrix is the pinnacle of Abjuration as an art form? Think about it. An Incantrix can make spells do anything they want, can twist and reshape them to their will. That's basically being an artist who can visualize anything they wish, and then make it a reality using only paint and a canvas, and do so masterfully. Just, instead of paint the Incantrix uses magic, and instead of canvas, they use the world. :smalltongue:

Really, explaining things is easy. Mechanically, the Incantrix is crazy powerful, and often times waaaaaay overkill for a given game, but flavorfully, they work perfectly.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-09, 06:43 PM
<awesome way to explain Incantrix fluff>


:openmouth:.... wow... never thought of incantrix as such... kudos to you arguskos

arguskos
2010-04-09, 06:45 PM
Ain't hard. I could probably represent most any arcane PrC from the Realms in such a light. However, note that not everyone in the Realms holds Khelben's views, though many powerful mages do. This means that not every PrC is going to be that way. Red Wizard sure isn't. Neither would be something like... Magelord, for example.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-09, 06:50 PM
Really??? well now I REALLY need to read the Faerūn books

Emmerask
2010-04-09, 06:52 PM
Mongoose - Encyclopaedia Arcane - Star Magic :smallsmile:

Hobs
2010-04-09, 07:13 PM
Really??? well now I REALLY need to read the Faerūn books

Yeah, ditto on the Faerun Campaign Setting. I read that cover to cover even though I stopped playing years ago.

Akal Saris
2010-04-09, 07:17 PM
I'd say the Book of Nine Swords has my favorite fluff overall, though the Binder wins the trophy for best fluff for a single class.

In 4E...ugh. I don't know. None of the fluff really appeals to me that much. The vestigelock was such a let-down for fluff after the binder too =(

Dr Bwaa
2010-04-09, 07:55 PM
Mongoose - Encyclopaedia Arcane - Star Magic :smallsmile:

Yes! someone else who reads Encyclopedia Arcane! :smallbiggrin:

Telemont
2010-04-09, 09:26 PM
4th Edition: The creation of Psionics, and the great spirits of the world.

3rd Edition: The Book of Nine Swords, and the Tome of Magic.

2nd Edition: Tome of Artifacts, and the Tome of Magic.

Shadowbane
2010-04-09, 09:28 PM
I have to admit, the Psionics fluff in 4e totally gets my vote. I love that and I'm totally stealing it for my 3.5 game.

arguskos
2010-04-09, 09:37 PM
2nd Edition: Tome of Artifacts, and the Tome of Magic.
DUDE, someone else who's read the Tome of Artifacts! :smallbiggrin:

Also, from AD&D 2nd, I really enjoyed Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. Though, that's cause I'm a Volo fanboy sometimes.

Zeta Kai
2010-04-09, 11:54 PM
Not a whole book, but my favorite bit of D&D Fluff of all time is the explanation in RoTW for why a race that worships a Lawful Good deity like the halflings tends to produce so many thieves and scoundrels.

Yeah, the Races books are full of great fluff; a very under-appreciated series with the most in-depth look at the PC-races' cultures imaginable. The BoVD was great, if you're into dark, morbid stuff.

And I could read anything about the Forgotten Realms from 3E; 4E FR doesn't exist for me.

Telemont
2010-04-10, 03:30 AM
4E FR doesn't exist for me.That's a shame. 4e Forgotten Realms has some really evocative fluff once you get past the Player's Handbook and Campaign Guide. Of course, I could see how anybody would be jaded after reading previous books about the same material, but it was the same problem happened when 2nd Edition came out and the same problem happened when 3rd Edition came out.

Galileo
2010-04-10, 07:17 AM
Yeah, the Races books are full of great fluff; a very under-appreciated series with the most in-depth look at the PC-races' cultures imaginable.

Absolutely. Races of Destiny is my personal favourite, because Illumians rock. It's nice being able to select from a really neat list of abilities, and it's just so funny being a walking torch via the Bright Sigil feat. First time I tried it out, the drow held his hands over his eyes and complained the whole way through the dungeon. But then he talked the barbarian into picking me up and waving me into the dark corners, so it evened out.

I also get the ability to do this! (http://keychain.patternspider.net/archive/koc0207.html)

Amiel
2010-04-10, 07:23 AM
The fluff in all mentioned books seems a tad on the light side; the covers themselves serve as enough padding to further reduce the necessary amount of words to describe something. This shouldn't be on, when I want fluff, I want to be able to admire it and read it cover to cover, not skim read and get to the end in two hours.


That said, I liked the fluff in Lords of Madness; some of the Eberron books have nice fluff. Faiths and Pantheons was much better written than Deities and Demigods in every aspect.

AslanCross
2010-04-10, 07:52 AM
Dragons of Eberron for 3.5. I really like how it explains the rather complex place in the world that Eberrons have. They're rarely monsters in a cave (though they could be)--there's the epic dragon nation of Argonnessen, the dragons living in human society of Khorvaire, the hidden lords of Xen'Drik worshiped by lesser races, and the guardians of relics and ancient treasures in Sarlona.

Emmerask
2010-04-10, 08:10 AM
Yes! someone else who reads Encyclopedia Arcane! :smallbiggrin:

Yes they are pretty awesome :smallbiggrin:

Another thing no one has mentioned that really is pure gold fluff wise are the Mongoose Slayers Guide to < insert monster >

From articles about their physiology to mating rituals over their methods of warfare to their habitats there is everything you ever want to know about Gnolls, Harpies, Goblins, Winter wolfs etc etc.

Oh and there is of course the The Slayer's Guide to Rules Lawyers :smallbiggrin:
which is all kinds of awesome

Mulletmanalive
2010-04-10, 08:12 AM
Yeah, the Races books are full of great fluff; a very under-appreciated series with the most in-depth look at the PC-races' cultures imaginable. The BoVD was great, if you're into dark, morbid stuff.

And I could read anything about the Forgotten Realms from 3E; 4E FR doesn't exist for me.

Oddly, I wasn't all that impressed with the three Races books because while they were detailed, they suffered a bit from "this is so"itis. The 2e race books were comparably detailed, if lacking the pretty pictures but covered a selection of different groups within the races [such as covering the Rock Gnomes, Sverfneblin and Tinkers as seperate entities in the Complete Gnomish Handbook]

I didn't really given 4e Faerun a chance because I'm really not a fan of turning a setting that had varied terrain and fascinating ecology into cities dotting wasteland, as is the core assumption of 4e setting design. It got thrown back on the sale rack when they decided to gloss over the farm belts that made such interesting adventure locales in 1,2 and 3e.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-10, 08:16 AM
Yes they are pretty awesome :smallbiggrin:

Another thing no one has mentioned that really is pure gold fluff wise are the Mongoose Slayers Guide to < insert monster >

From articles about their physiology to mating rituals over their methods of warfare to their habitats there is everything you ever want to know about Gnolls, Harpies, Goblins, Winter wolfs etc etc.

Oh and there is of course the The Slayer's Guide to Rules Lawyers :smallbiggrin:
which is all kinds of awesome

I love those. Female Gamers was awesome (a joke I know, but I liked it).

The Complete Guide to X (from Goodman games I believe) are great. Especially the Lich one, it goes ito everything, right down to the percentile chance of the dark magics leaving you with an unrotted eyeball instead of the usual dot of pure evil in your socket (it has a reason, I forget what it was though). Gives details on he actual Lichification ritual too, which rocks.

Morty
2010-04-10, 08:27 AM
Khelben feels that magic is an art form, and should be respected as such. His logic is that since magic in Faerun directly stems from a god (who was once a human woman), one should respect it as you would a king or dragon, not abuse it for your own ends. Use it with respect, treat it as an art. There's a reason the Realms calls arcane magic The Art, after all.

That about sums it up, I think. It's been a while since I read it, but it basically comes down to not using magic as you would use a hammer.

Realms of Chaos
2010-04-10, 08:32 AM
Hmmm... as a longtime fan of 3.5, I'd say that my favorite fluff would be...
Encyclopaedia Arcane's Sovereign Magic. It is so... epic in scale.

One day, I shall combine sovereign magic, The draconic prophecies of eberon, and xorvintaal to make a single campaign. :smallbiggrin:

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-10, 08:38 AM
Hmmm... as a longtime fan of 3.5, I'd say that my favorite fluff would be...
Encyclopaedia Arcane's Sovereign Magic. It is so... epic in scale.

One day, I shall combine sovereign magic, The draconic prophecies of eberon, and xorvintaal to make a single campaign. :smallbiggrin:

I use their Familiars book all the time for my casters. I loved my Penguin Familiar :smallbiggrin: