PDA

View Full Version : Two weapon throwing?



Mastikator
2010-04-10, 10:37 PM
I was thinking about two weapon users and supprise rounds, and how it would take two move actions to draw two weapons, and quick draw is incredibly useful here, since now you can draw both weapons as two free actions, and then make a full round attack, rather than no attack. But quick drawing was intended to be used for weapon throwers, so they can use iterative attacks with throwing weapons. But does two-weapon fighting work for throwing as well? Could a character throw two throwing daggers/axes/darts without having iterative attacks? Is there a feat for two weapon throwing? (not the quick-drawing feat, I mean, can you get only -2/-2 on each hand?)

Temotei
2010-04-10, 10:42 PM
It's...that's just creepy. I was just thinking of asking the same question. You beat me to it. Thanks. :smallbiggrin:

arguskos
2010-04-10, 10:45 PM
Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't specify melee weapons, IIRC, meaning if you meet the prereqs for -2/-2 two-weapon fighting, you can do it with thrown weapons.

Also, Quick Draw doesn't specify a number of times a round it can be used, meaning feel free to draw throwing weapons with it.

EDIT: Checked on the TWF. It does not specify melee only.

DSCrankshaw
2010-04-10, 10:46 PM
I think that Two Weapon Fighting does not specify melee, so you should be able to use it with two thrown weapons.

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-10, 10:48 PM
Also, if you want to be able to have something resembling a reasonably enchanted set of weapons, look into Bloodstorm Blade from Tome of Battle so you only need two weapons instead of one for each attack you make.

gorfnab
2010-04-10, 10:51 PM
You can throw weapons using Two Weapon Fighting feats without too much difficulty. In fact some builds go a little bit beyond that. One build I've used successfully in a low powered game was Rogue 3/ Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 2/ Swordsage 2/ Master Thrower 5/ Invisible Blade 5, obviously throwing daggers. With that build you have a BAB of 18, add in Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, and Rapid Shot (Quick Draw is free from Master Thrower) you're looking at 8 daggers thrown per round (16 with Master Thrower's Palm Throw, Weak Spot will make them ranged touch attacks :smallsmile:). There is not exactly a feat that does two weapon throwing, you just really need Two Weapon Fighting and thrown weapons.

Here is a blurb from a Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060905a) article


Ranged Fighting with Two Weapons

Attacks with two thrown weapons work just as noted for melee weapons, except that you use your Dexterity modifier to resolve ranged attacks. You still use your Strength modifier for damage rolls (but only half your Strength bonus for damage rolls with your off-hand weapon).

Ranged weapons you don't throw use most of the rules for two-weapon fighting; however, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and related feats don't apply to ranged weapons that aren't thrown. Because most ranged weapons that aren't thrown are two-handed weapons, this isn't a big deal.

Here is another blurb from a Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070717a) article on ranged attacks


If you can draw your thrown weapon without using an action, or as a free action, you can throw as a full-round action and make iterative attacks with several thrown weapons (one per attack) if your base attack bonus allows. One easy way to manage this trick is by taking the Quick Draw feat, which lets you draw weapons as free action.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Harperfan7
2010-04-10, 11:03 PM
Ok, so a Human Fighter 2 w/quick draw, PBS, Rapid Shot, and TWF has 3 available attacks per round?

arguskos
2010-04-10, 11:06 PM
Ok, so a Human Fighter 2 w/quick draw, PBS, Rapid Shot, and TWF has 3 available attacks per round?
At -4 penalties, but yes (possibly -3, depending on range).

Yora
2010-04-11, 03:57 AM
But keep in mind that during the suprise round, you have only one standard action and can't make a full attack. But if you win initiative, you can make a full attack during the first round while the enemies are still flat footed

hewhosaysfish
2010-04-11, 06:01 AM
No one spot this?


If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#draworSheatheaWeapon)

SethFahad
2010-04-11, 08:30 AM
I was thinking about two weapon users and supprise rounds, and how it would take two move actions to draw two weapons, and quick draw is incredibly useful here, since now you can draw both weapons as two free actions, and then make a full round attack, rather than no attack. But quick drawing was intended to be used for weapon throwers, so they can use iterative attacks with throwing weapons. But does two-weapon fighting work for throwing as well? Could a character throw two throwing daggers/axes/darts without having iterative attacks? Is there a feat for two weapon throwing? (not the quick-drawing feat, I mean, can you get only -2/-2 on each hand?)

In surprise rounds, you can only make a standard action, not a full round action and thus you can't make a full attack using both hands or iterative attacks.

Ranger Mattos
2010-04-11, 09:13 AM
As has already been said, Two-Weapon Fighting does not specifically apply to melee weapons. I should know, I currently have going a Ninja 15//Fighter 10/Master Thrower 5, and I haven't been yelled at for it :smallbiggrin:

elonin
2010-04-11, 09:23 AM
Isn't there only one free action per round? It could be argued that each hand can draw during that free action so to get 4 throws in one round you'd have to start the round with weapons in hand.

Ranger Mattos
2010-04-11, 09:27 AM
No you get infinite free actions. The limit is onlt one swift action per round.

elonin
2010-04-11, 09:37 AM
Thanks. Had those two types of actions confused. May have been because of my memory of quickened spells being limited to 1/round and that was a free action. So BAB 18 with 2 weapon fighting and quick draw= 16,16, 11, 11, 6, 6, 1, 1 not including modifiers other modifiers but getting enough daggers magical would be expensive. Maybe returning daggers would be helpful here or a chained greater magic weapon (would work on unlimited daggers).

Ranger Mattos
2010-04-11, 09:58 AM
So BAB 18 with 2 weapon fighting and quick draw= 16,16, 11, 11, 6, 6, 1, 1 not including modifiers other modifiers but getting enough daggers magical would be expensive. Maybe returning daggers would be helpful here or a chained greater magic weapon (would work on unlimited daggers).

Actually, you couldn't get the second +1 attack, without the use of an epic feat (unless there's another feat I don't know about). Personally, I use the Teleporting property found in the XPH.

elonin
2010-04-11, 10:23 AM
At first thought that would be GTWF but that is the 3rd iterative attack. But I didn't mention haste or item of speed so that would be a 3rd @ 16. But why was it recommended that 3 levels of swashbuckler for a thrower build? Int to damage is only for melee attacks.

gorfnab
2010-04-11, 10:59 AM
At first thought that would be GTWF but that is the 3rd iterative attack. But I didn't mention haste or item of speed so that would be a 3rd @ 16. But why was it recommended that 3 levels of swashbuckler for a thrower build? Int to damage is only for melee attacks.



Insightful Strike
At 3rd level, a swashbuckler becomes able to place her finesse attacks where they deal greater damage. She applies her Intelligence bonus (if any) as a bonus on damage rolls (in addition to any Strength bonus she may have) with any light weapon, as well as any other weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse, such as a rapier, whip, or spiked chain. Targets immune to sneak attacks or critical hits are immune to the swashbuckler’s insightful strike. A swashbuckler cannot use this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

It actually says that Int to damage is for any light or finesse-able weapons, it does not specifically say melee only, which means you can use this extra damage on daggers for both melee and ranged.

Keld Denar
2010-04-11, 12:32 PM
Old build of mine, Flick the Flaming Dagger Flinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5140212&postcount=11).

A halfling dagger thrower using Rapid Shot, TWFing, and Raging Mongoose along with Palm Throw to achieve a rediculous Rate of Fire. Then he spices them up with some Dragonfire Inspiration as a source of bonus damage so that he doesn't really need a huge supply of enchanted daggers.

Harperfan7
2010-04-11, 02:34 PM
This would all be really awesome if we still had 3.0's shuriken rules.

3 shuriken per attack, each can have their own enhancements (like flaming...)

sofawall
2010-04-11, 02:40 PM
Old build of mine, Flick the Flaming Dagger Flinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5140212&postcount=11).

A halfling dagger thrower using Rapid Shot, TWFing, and Raging Mongoose along with Palm Throw to achieve a rediculous Rate of Fire. Then he spices them up with some Dragonfire Inspiration as a source of bonus damage so that he doesn't really need a huge supply of enchanted daggers.

I have a similar build, with less BAB, but more attacks and bigger IC bonuses.