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View Full Version : Hyperspecializing a Wizard?



The Glyphstone
2010-04-11, 04:15 PM
Just as an odd thought exercise, how many schools can one wizard manage to ban?

Since we can't ban Divination or our specialization school, we need to ban a total of 6 schools, 7 if we specialize Diviner.

A specialist wizard bans 2.
Focused Specialist bans another, for 3.
A level in Incantatrix bans another for 4 (can't be Abjur or Divination).
A level in Red Wizard bans another for 5.

Is there anything else out there that can ban a school of magic? We need 2, preferably.

HunterOfJello
2010-04-11, 04:40 PM
Spontaneous Divination alternate class feature for a wizard makes learning a divination spell worthless and bans the school in a roundabout way.

Runestar
2010-04-11, 04:43 PM
Red wizard actually causes you to ban 2 more schools (or 1 if you are a diviner), so there you are, 6 schools banned. :smallbiggrin: Ignore the example in the DMG, which is erroneous.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 04:51 PM
Assuming I'm not ninja'd, a changeling focused specialist (transmutation & illusion) gives up 4 schools to double-specialize in two. Add in master specialist to give up another, incantatrix to give up one more, and red wizard would force you to give up two more assuming you could possibly give up your specialized schools.

sreservoir
2010-04-11, 04:59 PM
what are you trying to do, make a wizard that get +arbitrary amount to spell DCs, lots of extra slots, but which can't cast any spells other than wish?

Eldariel
2010-04-11, 05:09 PM
Assuming I'm not ninja'd, a changeling focused specialist (transmutation & illusion) gives up 4 schools to double-specialize in two. Add in master specialist to give up another, incantatrix to give up one more, and red wizard would force you to give up two more assuming you could possibly give up your specialized schools.

...Master Specialist gives up a school?

Mongoose87
2010-04-11, 05:23 PM
...Master Specialist gives up a school?

It does not.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 05:31 PM
It does not.Oh. I thought it did. My mistake.

The Glyphstone
2010-04-11, 05:36 PM
what are you trying to do, make a wizard that get +arbitrary amount to spell DCs, lots of extra slots, but which can't cast any spells other than wish?

No. There's no practical purpose to this at all, I'm just trying to see if it's possible to make a wizard who can only cast from one school (well, two if Universal is a school).

olentu
2010-04-11, 05:41 PM
No. There's no practical purpose to this at all, I'm just trying to see if it's possible to make a wizard who can only cast from one school (well, two if Universal is a school).

The Changeling substitution looks like it might work.

Luckily unless it has changed from the PHB universal is not a school.

The Glyphstone
2010-04-11, 05:44 PM
In that case, yeah, just need to be able to ban 7 schools.

Where's the 3.5 update to the Red Wizard outside the DMG though? I can only find the DMG version and the one in the 3.0 FRCS, which is doubly out of date for both being superseded by the DMG, and using specialization rules that don't exist anymore (it references what you can ban based on your chosen school in the PHB).

EDIT: Re-read the DMG rules, and I see the point. It's the example text that's wrong, while the rules say otherwise.

So far..

Start with, say, Focused Transmuter. (Ban Necromancy, Evocation, and Conjuration)
Remaining schools = Divination, Abjuration, Conjuration, Illusion, and Transmutation.

At level 6, dip Incantatrix and ban Transmutation. Remaining schools = divination, Conjuration, Abjuration, and Illusion.

At level 7, dip Red Wizard and ban Abjuration, Conjuration and Illusion (because as a Focused Specialist, you banned 3 schools, and Red Wizard makes you ban the same number you already banned before).

Sucess! A specialist wizard who managed to ban his specialty schools, and can't cast anything that isn't a divination or universal spell. Now, how can we break this? :smallcool:

Changeling Substitution doesn't work, because it'd mean we had to ban more schools (4) than we had left (2) when we got to the RW stage.

Private-Prinny
2010-04-11, 05:53 PM
But if you take a level in Incantatrix to ban a school, and then ban Abjuration later, don't you retroactively lose all Incantatrix class features, including the banned school?

The Glyphstone
2010-04-11, 05:55 PM
But if you take a level in Incantatrix to ban a school, and then ban Abjuration later, don't you retroactively lose all Incantatrix class features, including the banned school?

I'm saying no, for the same reason that Dragon Disciples don't turn into Schrodinger's Prestige Class at level 10 (plus, it'd sink the whole build).

Seffbasilisk
2010-04-11, 06:10 PM
Edit: Was saying the Trait Spellgifted, but that's all about CL ups and downs. I'm sure there's one out there...I'll poke around a bit more.

Edit2: Was thinking of Focused Specialist.