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Trekkin
2010-04-11, 08:29 PM
So I'm in a party with an incredibly fire-friendly warlock, a bard, and a rogue (I am the shaper referenced by the thread) and at present my astral constructs are being used to grapple or otherwise disable our opponents in lieu of fighters so the warlock and rogue can alternately blast and shoot them while the bard sings us all to new heights of competence. I am now entering sixth level, and as I have a rechargeable tattoo of psychic reformation it's possible for me to employ Lycanthromancer's Favored Contact trick and enter the Constructor prestige class; as my Minor Creation shenanigans apparently induce DM anger, it looks like astral constructs will be the focus of my char. So, my questions:

1. What is everyone's opinion of the Constructor from The Mind's Eye? Is it worth giving up two levels of power progression?
2. What are everyone's favorite astral constructs of various levels?

The Glyphstone
2010-04-11, 08:36 PM
Constructor is made of win. If you're building an astral construct monkey, and you're allowed to take the class, do it.

Trekkin
2010-04-11, 08:42 PM
That's just it, though. I can't decide whether I'm an AC monkey or a minor creation/fabricate monkey.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 09:06 PM
1. What is everyone's opinion of the Constructor from The Mind's Eye? Is it worth giving up two levels of power progression?I love the constructor, though I sometimes do wish it only lost 1 manifester level.

It certainly improves your ability to use constructs quite a lot, especially if you're clever on how you use them. Extended Construction especially assists with pp and action conservation, since your constructs last 10x as long, and the Utility Construct is great for giving yourself a mount and a handy-dandy vegan meat-shield that remains relevant throughout your levels, since it only loses its offensive menu options, but can still get others, and acts as soft cover from whatever side of you it's on.

If you don't mind being a level or 2 behind on powers known, and you don't have very many powers that depend on your manifester level (fairly easy for a shaper in particular) the lost MLs aren't that damaging, and although you lose 2 bonus feats, that's made up for by the extra Boost Constructs you get.

Unfortunately, the class requirements are less than stellar, considering how useless ecto protection generally is and how painful it is to have to take psionic repair damage if you're not a warforged (even if you have a psicrystal). The Craft: Sculpting skill can be worth it if you're clever, though.

The new menu options available to the constructor are a mixed bag: Brawn, Improved Brawn, and Extra Brawn are generally crap, though +5 damage does add up if you give your construct enough natural attacks. Dodge is absolutely worthless, given it's only useful as a prerequisite. The claws are decent for the smaller constructs, given the static damage, but not so much for the larger ones (and are otherwise generally useful only for changing the damage type for DR or the weird effects of some creatures, such as puddings). Armor spikes, reach, Stunning Fist, and tail slap are all good on the right construct (grapplers, battlefield controllers, battlefield controllers, and offensive cannons, respectively). Great Cleave is an oddity, since your larger constructs would get more kills, but fewer attacks from them, since the smaller ones have better Dex but less combat ability. You can make good use of them, but they're not as good, generally speaking, as the normal menu options.

Given how great full manifesting is, the loss of 2 powers known (though one can be replaced with psychic chirurgery cheaply enough), and the flexibility in spending those 2 bonus feats, it's really a toss-up in whether you want to take the PrC or going straight (eww) shaper.

If you're focusing on your constructs, it's a good PrC.


2. What are everyone's favorite astral constructs of various levels?Depends completely on what you want them to do.

Anything that improves your constructs' mobility or situational usefulness is great for those oddball battles where you need the off-the-cuff ability to swim, or a flying mount, or in the case of blindsight, invisible or hiding foes.

Anything that increases your number of attacks, and the damage of those attacks, makes astral constructs great for bitch-slapping your foes around.

Anything that increases your size, reach, strength, or that directly affect your grapple/trip/bull-rush/overrun/disarm/trample attempts are spectacular at giving you offensive options.

Options that grant your constructs increased defenses, such as fast healing, power resistance, extra AC, invisibility, and DR, are awesome at increasing their ability to take blows for you, whether it's in a mass battle situation or simply for their use as soft cover.

As for the Utility Construct, I like having a 7th level quadrupedal construct with its own built-in masterwork saddle (Craft checks are useful) natural invisibility, improved flight (40' avg), fast healing, improved swim (60'), celerity, and one other 1st level menu ability (say, buff). Once I get my last Boost Construct at PrC level 8, I like to toss on blindsight, power resistance, or extra buff. These make the construct an awesome mount, as maneuverable as they get. The only one I wish I could take is dimension slide, and I would if I weighed 20 lbs or less. Though I could very well be if I'm using metamorphosis, or am Small with the Skinny trait, compression, or similar. I have the psionic open chakra power and a lesser metamagic rod of Extend, so I can get +1 to ML when I use it (so that's a minimum of 24 hours for my pet construct). Also, see share pain.

You may want to practice looking up monsters in the Monster Manual, as well as picking classes for NPCs, and coming up with construct builds to handle them.

There's a construct building program out there (I have the link...somewhere; I'll post it here in a minute once I find it) that will help a lot, if you've got a computer handy when you game.

[edit] I couldn't find it, so I uploaded it here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/bo0c5g).

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 10:17 PM
That's just it, though. I can't decide whether I'm an AC monkey or a minor creation/fabricate monkey.You don't have to choose. I have all three powers, and I've taken constructor, and it hasn't hurt my ability to be creative with either power (other than a slight hit to my manifester level, but neither power relies heavily on it, so...).

Feel free to try out the constructor class. It's very fun if you're clever and creative.

Oh, um...I guess the brawn abilities aren't too bad...if you stack them with each other. :smallamused:

Volthawk
2010-04-11, 10:36 PM
You don't have to choose. I have all three powers, and I've taken constructor, and it hasn't hurt my ability to be creative with either power (other than a slight hit to my manifester level, but neither power relies heavily on it, so...).

Feel free to try out the constructor class. It's very fun if you're clever and creative.

+1 to this. Once you can get 3 picks of Menu C (taking all 10 levels of constructor, for example.), try Concussion+Energy Bolt+Dimension Slide.
With that your construct can do:

Free Action: Concussion Blast
Standard Action: Energy Bolt
Move Action: Dimension Slide away

If you can get another option, use Natural Invisibility, or just swap out Dimension Slide. With both, you have an invisible, teleporting artillery unit.

Oh, and thanks for the constructor Lycanthromancer.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 10:47 PM
Oh, and thanks for the constructor Lycanthromancer.Huh? Wha?


Once you can get 3 picks of Menu C (taking all 10 levels of constructor, for example.), try Concussion+Energy Bolt+Dimension Slide.
With that your construct can do:

Free Action: Concussion Blast
Standard Action: Energy Bolt
Move Action: Dimension Slide away

If you can get another option, use Natural Invisibility, or just swap out Dimension Slide. With both, you have an invisible, teleporting artillery unit.I did that, only without the dimension slide. It was against a dread wraith (see my other thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148681)). I had to solo an equal-CR encounter (one that was my primary weakness...incorporealness), and summoning two 7th level constructs was enough to let me give it a good thwacking after about 3 rounds. Of course, had I been *smart* and used my first turn to make a lower-cost speedy flying one to ride around I only would've needed one, and without having to risk getting Con-drained to death.

(Also, you might want to check out the Chronocharm of the Uncaring Archmage, from the MIC; it allows you to manifest astral construct as a standard action 1/day and only costs 500 gp.)

Volthawk
2010-04-11, 10:50 PM
Huh? Wha?


That program you linked to in one of your posts. It'll be quite useful. Now, I'm just playing around with it.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 10:54 PM
That program you linked to in one of your posts. It'll be quite useful. Now, I'm just playing around with it.You mean the constructor constructor? :smalltongue:

You an thank The_Ditto for that one. BTW, I found the original link (http://dot.ditto.googlepages.com/excel). I just hope it still works.

Anyway, make sure you have Linked Power. Helps with action economy, especially for cutting down on manifesting times. Awesome feat for a shaper.

Or any manifester, really.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-04-11, 11:24 PM
I'm only pointing out the obvious as it appears its been missed,
You only have to give up two manifesting levels if you take the last level in the PrC, the benefits of the first nine levels in the class cost you only one manifesting level.

So unless you think Quickened Construction is worth the second ML, your free to stop advancing in the class.

Trekkin
2010-04-12, 01:24 AM
Lycanthromancer, your help is enlightening as always. I think I will go Constructor, upon reflection; you are quite right to point out that the limiting factor in the Creation powers and Fabricate is in the player's mind rather than the character's.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-12, 01:49 AM
Lycanthromancer, your help is enlightening as always. I think I will go Constructor, upon reflection; you are quite right to point out that the limiting factor in the Creation powers and Fabricate is in the player's mind rather than the character's.No problem.

You know, the brawn options really aren't that bad, now that I think about it. In fact, since they stack, they're very good. +9 damage per hit (along with a mix and match of the following: muscle, improved slam attack, armor spikes, and energy touch for extra damage to every hit; pounce, rend, Great Cleave, tail slap and extra attack for...well...extra attacks; Power Attack and natural invisibility to pump up your to-hit to convert to Power Attack; and concussion for every last ounce of oomph) can give you crazy-go-nuts amounts of damage.