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Rasman
2010-04-12, 01:48 AM
I have two questions, well one question and a question of opinion.

One. Can any class take feats like Fire Devotion from Complete Champion, or are they Cleric only? I didn't see any prereqs for it, but I figured I'd ask.

Two. If the answer is yes, what are the better domain feats for Martial Characters? All I've found thus far are Destruction, Fire, Travel and Water.

Volthawk
2010-04-12, 01:53 AM
1)Yes, anyone can take them, just Clerics can trade in domains for feats and can have more.

2)How about Law or Luck?

Keld Denar
2010-04-12, 02:07 AM
Law, Chaos, Travel, Trickery, Animal, and Strength are all pretty good for martial types. They are one of the reasons why Pal4, Clr1, or SacEx1 are used in some builds. Access to Turn Undead to power these feats is very useful.

Rasman
2010-04-12, 02:27 AM
another question, can I access ANY domain or only the ones related to feats, like the ones in Complete Champion? I know this is probably a "duh" question, but I just like to be sure.

Keld Denar
2010-04-12, 03:33 AM
What do you mean by access any domain? There are only devotion feats printed for the domains printed in the PHB. There is no Kobald Devotion or Competition Devotion or Purification Devotion.

So yea, what are you asking?

Rasman
2010-04-12, 03:43 AM
What do you mean by access any domain? There are only devotion feats printed for the domains printed in the PHB. There is no Kobald Devotion or Competition Devotion or Purification Devotion.

So yea, what are you asking?

heh...I was misunderstanding them, it didn't occur to me until I started looking at them more, I assumed they had to do with Domains because of how they were listed in the D&D Toolshop at Savannahsoft. I was assuming they were like feats that allowed you, even if you weren't a cleric, to take a Domain. I guess I should ask if there are other Devotion feats, other than the ones in Complete Champion?

Keld Denar
2010-04-12, 04:37 AM
No, there aren't. CChamp is the only source of Devotion feats.

Glimbur
2010-04-12, 10:03 AM
Law, Chaos, Travel, Trickery, Animal, and Strength are all pretty good for martial types. They are one of the reasons why Pal4, Clr1, or SacEx1 are used in some builds. Access to Turn Undead to power these feats is very useful.

Knowledge Devotion isn't bad either, provided you have the skill points to fuel it. As a plus, it doesn't take any turn attempts to power and is free to activate in terms of actions.

marjan
2010-04-12, 10:57 AM
There is no Kobald Devotion or Competition Devotion or Purification Devotion.

Though this is true, there is a table that associates existing devotion feats with non-core domain. For example War Devotion is also associated with Competition domain.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-12, 11:58 AM
Though this is true, there is a table that associates existing devotion feats with non-core domain. For example War Devotion is also associated with Competition domain.

Which is horrible. Competition itself is a better domain than the War Domain, and War Devotion is crap compared to the domain it's based on.


Remember, you can only ever have two different Devotion feats. Unless you are a Cleric.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-04-12, 12:03 PM
Remember, you can only ever have two different Devotion feats. Unless you are a Cleric.

You can also only take devotion feats for domains your deity offers.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-12, 12:41 PM
You can also only take devotion feats for domains your deity offers.

Technically, you can worship an ideal and still get them. Or Seterous. But everything is better with Seterous.

KingoftheTrees
2010-04-13, 09:02 PM
I've always been curious about the exact wording on the Domain Feats. The description of Domain Feats says that "If you have the ability to turn or rebuke undead, you can gain additional daily uses of a domain feat's benefit by permanently sacrificing daily uses of that ability". Does this mean that you lose one turn/rebuke attempt to use it once more, or are they treated like divine feats where you can just use a turn attempt to activate said feat more than once? That's the way my DM and I have it set up so far. I've sacrificed two turn attempts to use Good and Healing Devotion one additional time a day. I'm not complaining in the slightest, since Healing Devotion has saved my bacon more than once! I was just wondering if anyone else had an idea how the rules SHOULD work for that.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 10:05 PM
I've always been curious about the exact wording on the Domain Feats. The description of Domain Feats says that "If you have the ability to turn or rebuke undead, you can gain additional daily uses of a domain feat's benefit by permanently sacrificing daily uses of that ability". Does this mean that you lose one turn/rebuke attempt to use it once more, or are they treated like divine feats where you can just use a turn attempt to activate said feat more than once? That's the way my DM and I have it set up so far. I've sacrificed two turn attempts to use Good and Healing Devotion one additional time a day. I'm not complaining in the slightest, since Healing Devotion has saved my bacon more than once! I was just wondering if anyone else had an idea how the rules SHOULD work for that.

Did you check the errata? Regardless, losing a few turn attempts just restricts how many Devotion feats they take, as they may want some for their other Divine feats. I know for a fact that DMM Clerics would never take a Devotion feat if it were that restrictive, but even without that interpretation they don't take the feats very often (Trickery Devotion is the usual one, but that isn't bothered by the restriction because it's effect lasts so long).

Panigg
2010-04-14, 04:12 AM
Remember that as a cleric, you can trade in your domains for the devotion feats. You'll lose your granted power and the spells tho. So that is only really worth it for domains that don't provide a huge bonus, like good or law.

KingoftheTrees
2010-04-14, 04:07 PM
Where can I find the errata?

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-14, 04:16 PM
Where can I find the errata?

Right here. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Errata_CompleteChampion.zip)

Aha!


Page 51 – Domain Feats
[Substitution]
Replace “permanently sacrificing”
with “expending” in the last line of
the third paragraph.

KingoftheTrees
2010-04-14, 06:14 PM
Thank you very much! That'll change some things I do quite drastically.

mabriss lethe
2010-04-14, 06:48 PM
at low levels,death devotion is pretty freaking amazing. access to a level drain attack at level 1? why not? (sure, it requires a save.) and while it does improve with time with a scaling DC and with the max number you can bestow on a target, but by the endgame a lot of the big nasties are immune to negative levels.

Knowledge devotion is grand, with its best use seen by cloistered cleric, bard, and factotum.

Sun devotion is circumstantial: in an undead heavy game, it's amazingly good. In a game where undead are rare? it's a minute's worth of light to read by.