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Trekkin
2010-04-12, 08:18 PM
Has anyone ever managed to find a use for all eleven exalted feats for a VoP character that starts at level 1? Every time I play with a build that includes it I have more feat slots than applicable feats.

Gaiyamato
2010-04-12, 08:23 PM
Yeah I'm always pushing it as well.
Remember there are few more exalted feats in some of the FR books that can come in handy.
I've filled a 18th level Exalted feat slot with "Homeland Defender" before (+1 to AC when fighting on home soil). lol.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-12, 08:25 PM
Not really. Especially for a noncaster.

Theoretically, a Monk qualifies for two that other characters can't use (the third happens to have an error). The ones that give a bonus to damage against Evil creatures. But this involves being a Monk.






Really, this is why Evil wins. Devoting yourself to an Elder Evil means you have access to 5 Vile feats that are generic enough that any class can make use of them.

Trekkin
2010-04-12, 08:25 PM
Oddly, the text reads bonus feat rather than bonus exalted feat, except at first level. Perhaps this could be taken to mean VoP grants ten bonus feats?

Gaiyamato
2010-04-12, 08:27 PM
Oddly, the text reads bonus feat rather than bonus exalted feat, except at first level. Perhaps this could be taken to mean VoP grants ten bonus feats?

No they are all Exalted feats. It does mention it somewhere. lol.

sofawall
2010-04-12, 08:50 PM
Text trumping table and all that.

noiadodh
2010-04-12, 08:52 PM
No they are all Exalted feats. It does mention it somewhere. lol.

only in the table.. so "At 1st level, an ascetic gets a bonus exalted feat, and another bonus feat at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter." is ambiguous or 'another bonus feat' really means 'another bonus exalted feat' by RAW?

Trekkin
2010-04-12, 08:53 PM
I'm inclined to think they meant exalted, but what character can use eleven exalted feats without taking five or six Vows?

Keld Denar
2010-04-12, 08:56 PM
Someone better versed in english grammer will come along and confirm this, but it has something to do with the rules for listing. Just like you can condense:

Brown shoes, brown hat, brown jacket, and brown scarf

to

Brown shoes, hat, jacket, and scarf

And still retain the same meaning, everything is brown. In math, we call this factoring.

So yea, exalted all the way through.
BTW, don't take it! ITS A TARP!

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-12, 09:06 PM
Someone better versed in english grammer will come along and confirm this, but it has something to do with the rules for listing. Just like you can condense:

Brown shoes, brown hat, brown jacket, and brown scarf

to

Brown shoes, hat, jacket, and scarf

And still retain the same meaning, everything is brown. In math, we call this factoring.

So yea, exalted all the way through.
BTW, don't take it! ITS A TARP!

FYI, the English behind that second one only implies that the shoes are brown. The only assumption in the English language is the word "You", and even then only in specific circumstances.

Commas in the wrong place alter the meaning of a sentence dramatically. This comes up in legal issues; there was a lawsuit a while back about an inheritance that was being divided between three people. Poor grammar (read: an omitted comma) caused one person to receive 10K, and the other two involved to receive 5K each (rather than the intended 10K to all three). The remainder of the inheritance was donated to a charity.


Proper English: Shoes, hat, coat, and pants, all brown. RAW, VoP's Exalted restriction applies only to the first bonus feat, but the intent is that it applies to all of the bonus feats. The Devs didn't think that a feat like Chosen of the Stars would be considered crap, so they expected everyone to take the feats that could potentially apply to their characters (including the other Sacred Vows, as Apostle of Peace shows).

Trekkin
2010-04-12, 09:06 PM
The problem is it's both ambiguous and extremely illogical to take the lingually normal answer. It can be read, and is usually read, as outlined above, but that leaves everyone with useless feats. The alternative reading is to read the text as exalted feat, bonus feat, etc, which brings Vow of Poverty into equivalent power again and simultaneously stops the feat overload problem.

Ah, it's been explained far more completely above. Well then, off to fix feat overload...

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-12, 09:11 PM
Ah, it's been explained far more completely above. Well then, off to fix feat overload...

Want help? I've been wanting to take some stabs at the various alignment-restricting feats for a while (I just don't want to do the Sacred Vows personally, as all of them are a bit heavy-handed).

Trekkin
2010-04-12, 09:20 PM
I was actually going to use VoP for a Totemist with Int and Cha 3 (Incarnate Arctic Wild Half-Minotaur Mineral Warrior Warforged for base Con 28) to represent his being so insanely simple-minded that he can't grasp that items have worth but just together enough to understand it makes other people happy to have them. I started trying to make a character too dumb to kill, and it's morphed into Incarnum Godzilla-Lennie (Of Mice and Men).

This is, however, purely a theoretical optimization idea to see how high I could bump Con and dump Int.

Doc Roc
2010-04-12, 09:23 PM
"Tell me about the Tibbits again, George."

Thurbane
2010-04-12, 09:37 PM
Exalted got less love than almost any other mechanic/subsystem in 3.5 - heck, even Pact Magic got a couple of token nods in other supplements. Vile got waaay more...HoH, EE, EoE just to mention a few...

It wouldn't be such an issue if WoTC had thrown a few extra feats into other supplements...now the only answer is homebrew.

Doc Roc
2010-04-12, 09:45 PM
Actually, there's a pretty simple answer. Just use any vile feat as an exalted after a brief reflavor. Heavens knows that Pelor won't mind.

balistafreak
2010-04-12, 09:46 PM
On the subject of the Vow of Poverty, could it apply to the caretaker of a blatantly magical place?

An immortal spellcaster ascetic dedicates his life to the maintenance of an ancient, now entirely unoccupied magical college/holy cathedral, depending on whether he's arcane or divine in nature. While he constantly rebuilds, maintains, repairs, and recharges all of the special features of the location, he never believes that he "owns" the place, simply that he is the rightful caretaker until it becomes occupied once more. When threatened, he calls upon the location to defend itself, but does not actively order/use the embedded powers. He calls upon legions of animated armor or turns on automated spell turrets, but does nothing as presumptuous as picking up a holy sword or magic staff and using it against the interlopers.

In his spare time, he reads and memorizes the endless books and scriptures held in the libraries.

Does this fall under the Vow?

Ernir
2010-04-12, 09:48 PM
It wouldn't be such an issue if WoTC had thrown a few extra feats into other supplements...now the only answer is homebrew.

Speaking of that... has there been any effort towards that on the homebrew front?

My VoP Swordsage just ding-ed to the 10th level, and I'm completely out of non-crap Exalted feats. :smallfrown:

Trekkin
2010-04-12, 09:55 PM
We just established they're not necessarily exalted feats.

balistafreak
2010-04-12, 09:59 PM
Actually, there's a pretty simple answer. Just use any vile feat as an exalted after a brief reflavor. Heavens knows that Pelor won't mind.

This is both the most idiotic and most brilliant idea I seen this week.

Idiotic, because, ZOMG, it's the book of VILE DARKNESS. And you're MAKING IT GOOD. HERESY.

/sarcasm

Brilliant, because it WORKS. Looking past the feats that are easily mirrored (and in fact already done so as Exalted feats, such as Evil Brand becoming Nimbus of Light), the body-changing feats can be reflavored as asceticism or such in the name of good.

Claw attacks? Instead of that stupid pointless Ki-strike, your divinity channels itself into glowing fists of doom.

Deformity of an eye? Flavor seeing invisibility as "(Deity) sees everything".

The face deformity is just a generic bonus to diplomacy and intimidate with evil creatures. Call it a scar in the name of good (flagellants, hehehe) and mirror the bonuses to good creatures.

The Gaunt and Obese feats can be said to be changes in your holy demeanor - you either become willowy with grace or stout with fortitude. The other bonuses simply reflect your added aura (intimidate) or are simply natural extensions of being graceful/tough (Escape Artist/poisons).

Lichloved, though... well, call it "relations" with a good outsider instead.

Instead of being a "friend to vermin", you're just a "friend to all living creatures", and the vermin recognize this fact.

*****************

... admittedly, though, that's not that many feats in the book alone. There were quite a few other feats elsewhere, though, and I feel as though you could continue to mirror them.

balistafreak
2010-04-12, 10:05 PM
Speaking of that... has there been any effort towards that on the homebrew front?

My VoP Swordsage just ding-ed to the 10th level, and I'm completely out of non-crap Exalted feats. :smallfrown:

I just looked up the errata for the BoED on the offical site. Errata says absolutely nothing on the text vs. table issue, so we can deduce that text still trumps table.

Vow of Poverty states "bonus feats", not "bonus exalted feats", in the text. Okay, so it's easily understandable as the latter, but strictly speaking it doesn't have to be. Even though the table says "exalted", the text doesn't. This makes the VoP much more useful than it would normally be, when you take feats that, ya know, actually accomplish something.

(I've always recalled text trumps table, but I can't remember where their official stance is on that, if someone could dig that up.)

Now go out and accomplish something with your bonus feats, sir. :smallsmile:

noiadodh
2010-04-12, 11:08 PM
(I've always recalled text trumps table, but I can't remember where their official stance is on that, if someone could dig that up.)

"Errata Rule: Primary Sources
When you find a disagreement between two D&D rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct. One example of a primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a table entry."

Trekkin
2010-04-12, 11:28 PM
Now if only there were a way to strip it of the alignment requirement. My characters tend to the psychotic, and that's not Good.

Can we make a UMD check to qualify for a feat prereq?

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 01:39 AM
Now if only there were a way to strip it of the alignment requirement. My characters tend to the psychotic, and that's not Good.

Can we make a UMD check to qualify for a feat prereq?

No. The next best thing is Abyssal Heritor feats in FC1. Devil-Touched feats in FC2 come close for Lawful guys, but not enough of them to matter and some of them require an Evil alignment.

Melayl
2010-04-13, 01:55 AM
On the subject of the Vow of Poverty, could it apply to the caretaker of a blatantly magical place?

An immortal spellcaster ascetic dedicates his life to the maintenance of an ancient, now entirely unoccupied magical college/holy cathedral, depending on whether he's arcane or divine in nature. While he constantly rebuilds, maintains, repairs, and recharges all of the special features of the location, he never believes that he "owns" the place, simply that he is the rightful caretaker until it becomes occupied once more. When threatened, he calls upon the location to defend itself, but does not actively order/use the embedded powers. He calls upon legions of animated armor or turns on automated spell turrets, but does nothing as presumptuous as picking up a holy sword or magic staff and using it against the interlopers.

In his spare time, he reads and memorizes the endless books and scriptures held in the libraries.

Does this fall under the Vow?

I'd say yes.

Doc Roc
2010-04-13, 02:13 AM
Now if only there were a way to strip it of the alignment requirement. My characters tend to the psychotic, and that's not Good.

Can we make a UMD check to qualify for a feat prereq?



Taint + Worship A Vile Deity + Undead=
TONS of free feats.

As for the whole thang about it giving you straight bonus feats, I've never met a GM who'd let that roll, so I think it's pretty much irrelevant what the actual legalistic stance on it is, particularly when it's linguistically ambiguous. And this is _me_ talking. You might as well argue that VoP allows you to use psionic items, presuming they fall into the condensed-astral-energy-set or can be fashioned into a quarterstaff, since transparency doesn't apply to feats.

In a related note, if you're interested, I have a bridge in San Fran that I'm looking to sell.

Saintheart
2010-04-13, 02:17 AM
On the subject of the Vow of Poverty, could it apply to the caretaker of a blatantly magical place?

An immortal spellcaster ascetic dedicates his life to the maintenance of an ancient, now entirely unoccupied magical college/holy cathedral, depending on whether he's arcane or divine in nature. While he constantly rebuilds, maintains, repairs, and recharges all of the special features of the location, he never believes that he "owns" the place, simply that he is the rightful caretaker until it becomes occupied once more. When threatened, he calls upon the location to defend itself, but does not actively order/use the embedded powers. He calls upon legions of animated armor or turns on automated spell turrets, but does nothing as presumptuous as picking up a holy sword or magic staff and using it against the interlopers.

In his spare time, he reads and memorizes the endless books and scriptures held in the libraries.

Does this fall under the Vow?

Everything except the reading or memorising the books is fine. RAW on Vow of Poverty, though, says "must not own or use any material possessions." By this rather asinine sentence, I suspect reading a book probably counts as using it - after all, what other principal use does a book have other than as a doorstop?

Even using the facility's defences is arguably breaking VoP, but the oath does allow you to own and use a spell component pouch, so the defences of the place might be activated with a small glass rod or something which counts as a spell component.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-13, 02:21 AM
In his spare time, he reads and memorizes the endless books and scriptures held in the libraries.

Does this fall under the Vow?Technically, activating the magics of the place counts as using a magic item (no matter how large), and even reading the books violates the vow.

However, VoP is stupid and stupid and more stupid, and most DMs would at least allow you to read the books, assuming they weren't, say, Books of Exalted Deeds or something.

Doc Roc
2010-04-13, 02:25 AM
Related wonderful note:
Are material possessions "material" if they're generated by astral projection?

Optimystik
2010-04-13, 06:48 AM
Everything except the reading or memorising the books is fine. RAW on Vow of Poverty, though, says "must not own or use any material possessions." By this rather asinine sentence, I suspect reading a book probably counts as using it - after all, what other principal use does a book have other than as a doorstop?

He can have the books read to him (so long as they aren't magical.)
Yes, this is silly.


Exalted got less love than almost any other mechanic/subsystem in 3.5 - heck, even Pact Magic got a couple of token nods in other supplements. Vile got waaay more...HoH, EE, EoE just to mention a few...

Because Evil is Sexy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsSexy) :smalltongue:
Also, (a) Vile had a bit more time to catch developers' eyes (since BoVD is 3.0), and (b) Vile feats are really meant to give more options to truly heinous BBEGs, so there's more design space there than making PCs "uber-good."

There's a handful in Champions of Valor. While not much to write home about, they at least beat Nimbus of Light :smallsigh:

balistafreak
2010-04-13, 07:00 AM
Nimbus of Light is a prerequisite for Stigmata, though.

"Wait a minute," one asks, "doesn't Stigmata really, really suck?"

Here's a hint: not if you don't have a Constitution score. You're immune to Constitution damage, so you can provide a full heal to party membmers every hour. It's only every hour, so its not broken-broken, but it's quite amusing.

Of course, this not only breaks the intention of the feat in half but requires a dubious reading where you overlook the "as long as you remain alive and conscious" part of Stigmata. Not having a Constitution score might disqualify you there...

As for my earlier question, I'll say that reading books is not using them, like reading something on a wall isn't "using it".

If we want to extend the definition of "using a material possession" you would somehow have to cut off all connection with the Material plane period...

... well, there's always the Astral plane. :smalltongue:

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 08:11 AM
I prefer using Stigmata with the Strongheart Vest soulmeld. Questionable, but it sure cuts healing costs.

balistafreak
2010-04-13, 09:05 AM
I prefer using Stigmata with the Strongheart Vest soulmeld. Questionable, but it sure cuts healing costs.

This sounds like at-will healing. Please elaborate. :smallredface:

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 09:19 AM
This sounds like at-will healing. Please elaborate. :smallredface:

Sort of. Strongheart Vest reduces ability damage you take by 1+X (X=Essentia invested), and Stigmata deals ability damage. Combine the two, and you can fuel up to 8 points into Stigmata without actually taking the damage.

The thing is, Strongheart Vest is poorly worded. It's dependent on if the DM says the vest only protects against attacks or against all ability damage. Both are RAW, but there's debate if one is fluff.

balistafreak
2010-04-13, 09:35 AM
What sort of class/feat investment would it take to get this? Could it be cheated by a few feats, require a dip level or two, or a full-out Incarnum?

I'm a sucker for at-will healing, if it hasn't been made obvious yet. :smalltongue:

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 09:54 AM
What sort of class/feat investment would it take to get this? Could it be cheated by a few feats, require a dip level or two, or a full-out Incarnum?

I'm a sucker for at-will healing, if it hasn't been made obvious yet. :smalltongue:

Four feats gets a functional version of it. Nimbus of Light, Stigmata, Shape Soulmeld, Bonus Essentia.

A 2 level dip into Incarnate does the job much faster though.

balistafreak
2010-04-13, 12:02 PM
I don't have Magic of Incarnum, but from what I've seen on the boards, Constitution "is your most important stat", at least for a Incarnate.

... what happens when Constitution is a nonability (-) for you? :smalltongue:

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-13, 12:10 PM
I don't have Magic of Incarnum, but from what I've seen on the boards, Constitution "is your most important stat", at least for a Incarnate.

... what happens when Constitution is a nonability (-) for you? :smalltongue:There's a feat for undead that allows you to use your Charisma score instead.

Other than that, you cannot use incarnum at all.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 12:13 PM
There's a feat for undead that allows you to use your Charisma score instead.

Other than that, you cannot use incarnum at all.

Even with the feat, you cannot use Incarnum-based feats (all of them require a Con score). Thus, being Undead is a liability for a meldshaper.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-13, 01:08 PM
Even with the feat, you cannot use Incarnum-based feats (all of them require a Con score). Thus, being Undead is a liability for a meldshaper.

one word: Necrocarnum

Indon
2010-04-13, 01:34 PM
We just established they're not necessarily exalted feats.

That's a fairly cheesy reading, especially considering the table just sitting right there backing up the obvious intent of the rule.

Yes, yes, RAW. Some RAW is trivially unworthy of discussion, as likely to see play as the likes of Pun-Pun.

It's a good way to make Vow of Poverty much more powerful, though, especially for caster types.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-04-13, 02:09 PM
On Stigmata: Couldn't you just bind Naberius and have essentially infinite healing (Naberius heals 1 ability damage a round)?

Trekkin
2010-04-13, 03:01 PM
Exactly my point, Indon. It makes VoP into something that might be worth the taking and stops the problem that started this thread: nobody ever needs eleven exalted feats for anything.

RAI, it doesn't hold up, but if RAI constantly causes problems while RAW is playable I'll take RAW.

balistafreak
2010-04-13, 06:49 PM
That's a fairly cheesy reading, especially considering the table just sitting right there backing up the obvious intent of the rule.

Yes, yes, RAW. Some RAW is trivially unworthy of discussion, as likely to see play as the likes of Pun-Pun.

It's a good way to make Vow of Poverty much more powerful, though, especially for caster types.

Vow of Poverty needs more love anyways. It should give real feats, not the additional piece-of-junk Vows. This reading lets it actually accomplish something.

And it's better not only for caster-types, but basically everyone. I'd daresay melee types get more reasonable mileage out of the bonus feats than a caster, because, well, as we all know, casters are already pretty bloody good.

Hmmm, my brain tells me to make a Hengeyokai (sparrow) Warlock with Vow of Poverty... does the Vow benefit you while you're shapeshifted (into a sparrow, that is)? Because while a sparrow shooting f---in' laser beams out of its eyes is already funny, a sparrow shining with a holy aura while doing so is even funnier.

And come on, this isn't even close to the Scorpion Tail Whip that deals 1d43 damage from Sandstorm. Hell, I'd take Exotic Weapon Proficency for that weapon any day. :smalltongue:

(Yes, the 1d43 was supposed to be 1d4.)

Thurbane
2010-04-13, 07:56 PM
On Stigmata: Couldn't you just bind Naberius and have essentially infinite healing (Naberius heals 1 ability damage a round)?
That's what I was going to suggest. Binding Naberius only requires a single level of Binder, if you only want a dip.


Hmmm, my brain tells me to make a Hengeyokai (sparrow) Warlock with Vow of Poverty... does the Vow benefit you while you're shapeshifted (into a sparrow, that is)? Because while a sparrow shooting f---in' laser beams out of its eyes is already funny, a sparrow shining with a holy aura while doing so is even funnier.
Take a level of Binder, and into the Hellfire Warlock PrC - then you can use Naberius to offset CON damage from both Stigmata and Hellfire Bast. :smallbiggrin:

Oops, found a flaw with using Naberius:


When you use this ability, the wounds on your body bleed in proportion to the Constitution damage you take. The bleeding persists for 1 hour, and the Constitution damage cannot be restored by any means until the bleeding has stopped.

...so you'd have to accept the reduced CON for an hour before Naberius' ability kicked in. :smallfrown:

Zaq
2010-04-13, 08:49 PM
one word: Necrocarnum

...does not actually work that way.

Trekkin
2010-04-13, 10:25 PM
Indeed it does not. All incarnum requires a Con score to use efficiently, and the Undead Meldshaper feat grants just that-- it lets you shape soulmelds without a Constitution score. Necrocarnum is simply a different sort of Incarnum

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 11:12 PM
Yeah, I was playing a VoP Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor healbot, ran out of good Exalted Feats at level 9, I had to ask the DM to kindly allow me to pick Divine feats with that bonus feats, he allowed me on a case-by-case, if the feat "feels" exalted (Sacred Boost, for example).

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 11:19 PM
You know, the more I think about it the more I wanna House Rule Shape Soulmeld to be either a Vile or Exalted feat for VoP/Elder Evils devotion purposes (the feat itself wouldn't change, you could just take it with those abilities).

Trekkin
2010-04-14, 01:14 AM
As long as we're houseruling, I would suggest stripping VoP of its [Exalted] tag, and allowing it to be taken by any character. It seems to me that it represents an alternate way of playing a character that relies on inner strength more than possessions, and for some reason assuming that only near-saints can access this irks me. It's easy enough to come up with a reason for a character turning inward for his/her power that doesn't require the intervention of a deity. Admittedly the roleplaying would be different, but the crunch remains.

Doc Roc
2010-04-14, 07:45 AM
As long as we're houseruling, I suggest you burn that entire book.
VoP has so many problems, and feats are just one in a long line of them.
I know you're really excited about your freshly forged RAW, but unless your character is a full-caster of some form, those feats are just more feats you:

A) Can't Use, because there's nothing really worth taking.
or
B) Will put towards being an ubercharger.


It doesn't solve the issue that gear is ridiculously important and rapidly outpaces the benefits of the VoP.

balistafreak
2010-04-14, 09:24 AM
I'd personally argue that feats can always help. You've got a hojillion books - surely there are feats that help your character concept. Having extra feats instead of gear seems "balanced" to me as long as your items aren't doing things that are f---in' ridiculous. (These items, like Candles of Invocation, tend to make DMs Rule 0 your face off. Unpleasant.)

On a related note, now that I've gotten my hands on Magic of Incarnum, VoP just got a whole lot cooler in my eyes.

So both full-casters and Incarnum-classes benefit. I can see something awesome from an uber-charging Totemist with Giralion Arms already. :smallcool: Both benefit from additional feats - full-casters can always find more metamagic/spell boosters/extra feats that help them not die, and the bonus feats for Incarnum let them pick up lots of extra Essentia, of which there is never enough of.

I felt like making a joke about Vespene Gas and Essentia, but decided against it. :smalltongue:

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-14, 09:28 AM
I'd personally argue that feats can always help. You've got a hojillion books - surely there are feats that help your character concept. Having extra feats instead of gear seems "balanced" to me as long as your items aren't doing things that are f---in' ridiculous. (These items, like Candles of Invocation, tend to make DMs Rule 0 your face off. Unpleasant.)

The thing is, the standard +10 weapon (+5/+5, as WotC wanted you to make) is stronger than what you get from VoP (+5/+0 at 20th level?). And the auto-Mind Blank? A ring does that. And Energy Resistance 30 to all types is about 20K thanks to the MiC.


On a related note, now that I've gotten my hands on Magic of Incarnum, VoP just got a whole lot cooler in my eyes.

Incarnates, Totemists, Druids, Psions, and Binders all make decent use of VoP. Equipment is still better than the bonus feats 90% of the time (considering you can buy feats).

balistafreak
2010-04-14, 09:58 AM
:smallannoyed:

I'll freely admit defeat there. At the top end of the power curve, there's always yet another magic item to make you stronger, and you can buy whatever feats you want.

I'm used to playing games of ECL 1-10. A sort of psuedo-E10, if you will, because the campaigns/games usually never make it past 10. VoP seems like it would be more effective when you're not stupidly wealthy.

That, and the DMing around here (including mine) tends to be stingy with magic items and wealth. Very little shopping happens - no "here's some gold, go buy something that will make me cry".

Where there is wealth, there is power. There just so happens to be not very much wealth around me. Standard WBL is probably better than the VoP.

Stycotl
2010-04-14, 12:12 PM
Speaking of that... has there been any effort towards that on the homebrew front?

here are a few of my homebrew exalted feats:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78632

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94571

i have more somewhere, but apparently haven't posted them on the forum yet.

and djinn in tonic made a homebrew VoP alternative for warforged that i thought was pretty brilliant:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114562