Isamu x2

[Kurald Galain]

It just struck me that the wight in the last panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) is probably Isamu, whereas here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0521.html), Belkar "killed" him. Can a "slain" undead be animated again with no limits, or am I missing something here?

[Conuly]

I can't remember what we said, but if you want to read the older discussion about this it's here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139848&highlight=isamu)

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Can a "slain" undead be animated again with no limits, or am I missing something here?
By Core rules, I don’t believe there is a way for a destroyed wight to come back as a wight. The only way in Core to create a wight is to slay a living creature with energy drains that are not geared towards any other specific undead.

Animate dead specifies that zombies and skeletons cannot be reanimated. However, it doesn’t seem to forbid a destroyed wight from being used as the source of corpse. But the character in question is clearly neither zombie nor skeleton.

Create undead and create greater undead are silent on the issue. they simply require a corpse. Whether or not it was previously undead does not appear to be an issue. Of course, neither spell can create a wight, so that doesn’t help with Isamu’s situation.

If that’s Isamu and not some other wight that stole his gear, whatever brought him back is outside of core.

[factotum]

By Core rules, I don’t believe there is a way for a destroyed wight to come back as a wight. The only way in Core to create a wight is to slay a living creature with energy drains that are not geared towards any other specific undead.


However, Tsukiko clearly states in one of the strips that she "made" the Wight who got turned by Thahn, so clearly the creation of Wights in OotS doesn't follow Core anyway.

[hamishspence]

Still doesn't exclude the possibility that the method of "making" the wight in question consisted of much zapping with enervation spells.

(Enervation is only 4th level, and can kill with negative energy, and (by DMG) a humanoid killed with negative energy comes back as a wight.

[Beorn080]

Tsukiko seems to be the only major character who goes out of her way to find non core spells. While other non core things have been mentioned as jokes, she went out of her way to get non core spells for combat against Haley, so it wouldn't surprise me if she grabbed some other spells to keep her undead undead.

[Magicyop]

Yup, there IS such a spell, and I'm shocked that no one mentioned it in the previous thread.

See Revive Undead in Libris Mortis. Brings an undead back that was killed by hit point loss, as Isamu most certainly was. The only issue is that it is a domain spell for clerics, and is a 5th level spell, which is possibly too high level for Tsukiko. Depends on what level she is. It also comes as a normal sorcerer/wizard spell, but for them it is 6th level, which is even more unlikely.

But the spell does exist, and it is possible.

[factotum]

Actually Tsukiko would only need something like Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 6 to be able to cast 5th level cleric spells. We know for a fact she can cast 5th level Arcane spells, because she used Mind Fog against V during his battle with Xykon.

[Magicyop]

Good point. Then I guess Revive Undead is probably what she used, yeah. It seems fitting in her character to go to the trouble of bringing back the undead killed as opposed to just creating new ones. Plus, probably a lot less trouble than creating a new wight, if she actually does create them by repeated enervation.

[Swordpriest]

Good point. Then I guess Revive Undead is probably what she used, yeah. It seems fitting in her character to go to the trouble of bringing back the undead killed as opposed to just creating new ones. Plus, probably a lot less trouble than creating a new wight, if she actually does create them by repeated enervation.

Yep, either she uses revive undead or the Giant forgot that Isamu was killed. I'd prefer to follow the revive undead theory, myself. :smallwink:

[Draconi Redfir]

actually Isimu(sp?'s) wright was made by two other wrights waset he (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html)?

[Magicyop]

actually Isimu(sp?'s) wright was made by two other wrights waset he (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html)?

Yes, he was- but that doesn't mean Tsukiko couldn't revive him. I believe that wights are under the control of their creator wight, and if their creator is under the control of Tsukiko, then they are, by extension, under the control of Tsukiko.

[Beorn080]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wight.htm

Correct. Interesting. So, assuming one had a method to control wights, at least a few, and a method to get it started, you could presumably turn that 30000 hobgoblin army into a 30000 wight army, all under your control. Plus, its a self propagating horde, since every one you kill with the horde gets raised.

Tsukiko is the Borg Queen. You will be Enervated.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Yup, there IS such a spell, and I'm shocked that no one mentioned it in the previous thread.

See Revive Undead in Libris Mortis.
Actually, it was mentioned: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7769870&postcount=32

However, I do not have Libris Mortis, and it was not clear to me if the spell actually existed or if Darkling had made up the spell name. Otherwise, I would have mentioned it in my previous post here.

But, yeah, looks like Tsukiko’s got that spell.


Correct. Interesting. So, assuming one had a method to control wights, at least a few, and a method to get it started, you could presumably turn that 30000 hobgoblin army into a 30000 wight army, all under your control. Plus, its a self propagating horde, since every one you kill with the horde gets raised.
I wouldn’t feel safe managing that with more than two degrees of separation. Just thing what would happen if one of the wights in the middle ranks—say one that either directly or indirectly controls 1,000 of the wights is slain. You suddenly have 1,000 free wights.

Does revive undead specify whether revived undead regain control of any minions that were freed by its destruction?

[ThePhantasm]

Is this Isamu here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0526.html) (alive) or are there multiple Azurites who look like him?

[Herald Alberich]

Is this Isamu here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0526.html) (alive) or are there multiple Azurites who look like him?

That is Isamu. It's a flashback.

Edit: I suppose you know that. If it's not Isamu, that would be odd, is what I mean to say.

[ThePhantasm]

That is Isamu. It's a flashback.

Edit: I suppose you know that. If it's not Isamu, that would be odd, is what I mean to say.

*slaps self*

I knew it was a flashback, but for some reason I got confused on when Isamu had died. Just remembered he had an off-panel death.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Actually Tsukiko would only need something like Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 6 to be able to cast 5th level cleric spells. We know for a fact she can cast 5th level Arcane spells, because she used Mind Fog against V during his battle with Xykon.
Create undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html) is a 6th-level spell for both clerics and sorcerer/wizards (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/spellsC.html#create-undead).

Unfortunately, the spell color is dark, indicating she’s casting it as an arcane spell. So it doesn’t exactly confirm her level of clerical ability (her build might not be even), but it’s good to know.

[Magicyop]

Create undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html) is a 6th-level spell for both clerics and sorcerer/wizards (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/spellsC.html#create-undead).

Unfortunately, the spell color is dark, indicating she’s casting it as an arcane spell. So it doesn’t exactly confirm her level of clerical ability (her build might not be even), but it’s good to know.

We are talking about Revive Undead, not create undead. If she is a worshipper of Afflux, she could get it as a 5th level domain spell.

EDIT: Oh, I'm stupid. I didn't understand, I thought you were saying that it wasn't a 5th level spell, but a 6th level spell, not talking about Tsukiko's level of ability. Forgive my awfulness and inability to read. Forget everything I just said.