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Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 12:34 PM
So... I'm making a new char for our ongoing level 11 game. DM said I can make a level 10 char, and choose any +0 LA races/templates (Can't have racial HD or paragon levels or monster levels). I want to build a Warlock/Ur-priest/Mystic Theurge (And I know I shouldn't be allowed, but DM said It was OK).
I really want to be Undead, so Necropolitan looks good.

So, I'm looking at Necropolitan Warlock 4/Lion Totem Barbarian1/Ur-priest2/Mystic Theurge 3, so far... I wanted sugestions on race/template, feats, and good invocations. Magazines, Online content and Faerun/forgotten realms are banned, but Vile Darkness is OK.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 12:41 PM
There's a PrC in Complete Mage that does this concept much better, and is RAW-legal. Eldritch Disciple, IIRC.

Optimystik
2010-04-13, 12:50 PM
There's a PrC in Complete Mage that does this concept much better, and is RAW-legal. Eldritch Disciple, IIRC.

Note that ED requires some finagling however, as it requires you to have a deity, while Ur-Priest requires you to not have one. The standard way around that is worshipping a dead god (or Elder Evil :smalltongue:) but those might not be available in your DM's setting.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 12:55 PM
Note that ED requires some finagling however, as it requires you to have a deity, while Ur-Priest requires you to not have one. The standard way around that is worshipping a dead god (or Elder Evil :smalltongue:) but those might not be available in your DM's setting.

Ur-Priest does not require you to forsake your god. That is fluff text attached to the ones who train you. It does say that standard Clerics hate the idea of an Ur-Priest's existence, especially if the character in question was a former worshipper of the Cleric's faith or pantheon.

But no where in the class does it say you lose class features for worshipping a god.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-13, 12:56 PM
I like the concept: a dead priest worshiping a dead god. REALLY cool..

as for race, I suggest something that fits the theme of being a long-forgotten disciple of a dead god. And when I think of warlock, my first thought is Lesser Aasamir. 0LA, +2 Cha and Wis, and a humanoid (not outsider)

Your theme could be that you were angry because you were weaker than your Aasamir-kin and turned to evil, worshipping a now-dead evil god/Elder Evil. You sought to maintain your corruption by seeking immortality and became undead

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 12:59 PM
Actually, there are plenty dead evil gods around to worship (In fact my old char died trying to bring Hel back.), but I believe Ur-Priests don't worship at all, even dead Deities...

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-13, 01:02 PM
Actually, there are plenty dead evil gods around to worship (In fact my old char died trying to bring Hel back.), but I believe Ur-Priests don't worship at all, even dead Deities.

It's in the "adaptations" section, hence the coolness of a Lesser Aasamir Necropolitan Warlock/Ur Priest/Eldritch Theurge who happens to worship Hel

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 01:09 PM
I just re-read the Ur-Priest, there is a part where it actually says the class can be adapted for people whose deities were killed. Nice. Have to talk with DM about it.

But, as he already approved the Mystic Theurge, it would be nice to not-lose the first level of divine spellcasting that the Eldritch Disciple loses.

Really like where this is going. Where can I find said Lesser Aasamir?

Optimystik
2010-04-13, 01:09 PM
Ur-Priest does not require you to forsake your god. That is fluff text attached to the ones who train you.

That "fluff text" is actually attached to the class itself, not your trainers. It's in the very first sentence: "Ur-Priests despise gods."

And yes, it is fluff text. But fluff text becomes very relevant if your DM enforces it.


Actually, there are plenty dead evil gods around to worship (In fact my old char died trying to bring Hel back.), but I believe Ur-Priests don't worship at all, even dead Deities...

In the adaptation they do... if your DM allows dead deities in his setting.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-13, 01:16 PM
I just re-read the Ur-Priest, there is a part where it actually says the class can be adapted for people whose deities were killed. Nice. Have to talk with DM about it.

But, as he already approved the Mystic Theurge, it would be nice to not-lose the first level of divine spellcasting that the Eldritch Disciple loses.

Really like where this is going. Where can I find said Lesser Aasamir?

Player's Guide to Faerun. It's hard to find...

gorfnab
2010-04-13, 01:41 PM
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3
This gets you full Ur-Priest casting, Dark Invocations, and the ability to bind Naberius to offset the con damage from Hellfire.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-13, 01:42 PM
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3
This gets you full Ur-Priest casting, Dark Invocations, and the ability to bind Naberius to offset the con damage from Hellfire.

He can't use ET, only MT

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 01:43 PM
Sorry, where can I find Binder and Hellfire Warlock?

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-13, 01:45 PM
Sorry, where can I find Binder and Hellfire Warlock?

Tome of Magic and Tome of Fiends 2

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 01:46 PM
Tome of Magic and Fiendish Codex 2

Fixed for accuracy.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-13, 01:47 PM
Fixed for accuracy.

gracias...AFB now. knew some1'd correct me

PS: I don't dig warlock too terribly much because I usually like powerful spells, not infinite cantrips

sombrastewart
2010-04-13, 01:50 PM
Tome of Magic (for the binder) and Fiendish Codex 2 (hellfire warlock).

I used that build myself, it's a lot of fun.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-04-13, 01:52 PM
gracias...AFB now. knew some1'd correct me

PS: I don't dig warlock too terribly much because I usually like powerful spells, not infinite cantrips

Eh, 30d6 x 4 isn't bad damage output...

DimDoor, Greater Invis, and inflicting negative levels as unlimted at-will SLA's is kinda fun too...

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 02:03 PM
Con Damage? On my Undead? Or does Hellfire Warlock restricts "no undead"?

The Shadowmind
2010-04-13, 02:03 PM
If you get Tome of Magic allowed, see if the DM will allow Tenebrous,the Shadow that Was as the "god" you worship, he is a former Demon God and cleric that worship him can get Chaos, Death, Evil, and Trickery Domains. Since Tenebrous is not a god, but a Vestige instead it should technically work with fluff of Ur-Priest.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-13, 02:04 PM
Con Damage? On my Undead? Or does Hellfire Warlock restricts "no undead"?

You can't use HFW, so i reiterate my idea

bartman
2010-04-13, 02:09 PM
Eh, 30d6 x 4 isn't bad damage output...

How do you figure 30d6 X 4?

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 02:20 PM
I think I actually sounded grumpy on my above comment, sorry. I just haven't checked HFW yet.

How do you figure 30d6 x 4? [2]

Ernir
2010-04-13, 02:31 PM
Con Damage? On my Undead? Or does Hellfire Warlock restricts "no undead"?
"if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use [Hellfire Blast]."

Optimystik
2010-04-13, 02:33 PM
But, as he already approved the Mystic Theurge, it would be nice to not-lose the first level of divine spellcasting that the Eldritch Disciple loses.

Sure you lose a caster level, but you get it back at the end. You need two levels of UP to enter ED, losing one from ED - that still leaves you 9 levels of ED to get your 10 levels of UP.

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 02:41 PM
Yeah, i'd have to choose beetween being undead or being a hellfire warlock.

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 02:47 PM
Undead rolls d12 and has a lot of immunities; Hellfire Warlock dishes out a lot of damage... And I don't know DM's opinion on Tome of Magic, yet. But, it looks like a really solid build.

OldFart
2010-04-13, 02:54 PM
Let me join those recommending ED over MT - better BAB, saves, and actually having class features will make up for the lost caster level (esp. since you only need 10 total with Ur-Priest).

If your DM isn't familiar with Tome of Magic, you might want to avoid Binder rather than introducing a new system of magic into the campaign.

At the level you're building, I'd pick Necropolitan over Hellfire Warlock. Once one gets access to 8th level cleric spells, the Veil of Undeath spell might change my opinion, but until then, undead > HW.

Finally, if you decide to have your character worship Hel, you should definitely make it female, and incorporate an antebellum Southern flair. :smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2010-04-13, 03:02 PM
Good replacements for Binder are Savage Bard and DFA. The former gives you a ton of skill points (especially at 1st level); the latter gives you a very useful at-will invocation like free Identify. Both give you the fortitude and will you need for Ur-Priest.

In a true pinch, Ex-Cleric will do. Become a Cleric at first level (especially Cloistered), then shirk your duties and thumb your nose at your deity immediately.

AbyssKnight
2010-04-13, 03:26 PM
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3
This gets you full Ur-Priest casting, Dark Invocations, and the ability to bind Naberius to offset the con damage from Hellfire.

*sigh*
There is no reason to go Eldritch Disciple 10. Ur Priest only goes to 10 levels, and you have 2 levels already so you only need Eldritch Disciple 9 (CL loss at 1st level) to max it out.

Warlock 4/Binder 1/Ur Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 9/Hellfire Warlock 3/Mindbender 1

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 05:43 PM
Both give you the fortitude and will you need for Ur-Priest.

In a true pinch, Ex-Cleric will do. Become a Cleric at first level (especially Cloistered), then shirk your duties and thumb your nose at your deity immediately.

Warlock already covers the will and +1 fort, the build only needs +2 fortitude, so anything with good fort is better than ex-cleric (since Ur-priest asks you to forsake previous divine spellcasting abilities)... Or I may be just being noob, as I'm not familiar with the Cloisted Cleric.

Optimystik
2010-04-13, 05:53 PM
Warlock already covers the will and +1 fort, the build only needs +2 fortitude, so anything with good fort is better than ex-cleric (since Ur-priest asks you to forsake previous divine spellcasting abilities)... Or I may be just being noob, as I'm not familiar with the Cloisted Cleric.

Cloistered Cleric, like Savage Bard, gives you a ton of skill points, d6 HP and good fort/will. You also get a bonus feat by trading one of your domains away for a Devotion before renouncing orthodox faith. And you get to cast Identify with no material component for the rest of your character's life.

Well, that last one depends on how lenient your DM is concerning your spell list.

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 06:31 PM
Is it really RAW that for DMM you don't need the relative metamagic feat nor its pre-requisites?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-13, 06:46 PM
Is it really RAW that for DMM you don't need the relative metamagic feat nor its pre-requisites?

You need the normal metamagic as pre-requisite for DMM.

Yorrin
2010-04-13, 06:52 PM
You need the normal metamagic as pre-requisite for DMM.

Since when? I thought this is a small part of why DMM was so overpowered?

Eldariel
2010-04-13, 06:55 PM
Since when? I thought this is a small part of why DMM was so overpowered?

Since the errata. But yeah, that doesn't really change anything. It just makes it bit more feat intensive. They're mostly feats you'd want anyways eventually so it's not like it's negative EV or anything. Merely few more choices are made beforehand for you. Meh, makes making crap easier. Though less Extra Turnings and thus harder to DMM stuff without equipment.

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 07:41 PM
So with Necropolitan Ur-Priest, I get to roll d12s, have a bucketfull of immunities, and DMM Persistent Spell Divine Power, so my classes BAB and Hit dice are ignored. Heh. I actually think DM will ban Persistent Spell, but I can also DMM Quicken my Extended Divine Power, works too.