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The Pressman
2010-04-13, 06:01 PM
So...

In the campaign, there's recently been wolf activity. Someones child has been taken. But now, on the offchance that the child is still around, someone (a beguiler) wants to ransom them back to the parents. I, as a neutral good archivist, said I would help if she could prove that the parents were abusive. If she wasn't able to, and still did it, I would talk to the paladin, and hell would fall.
However, if it should come to a confrontation, what are some spells that would be good against a beguiler?

Also, would this work:

-command(sleep)
-sanctuary

The way I see it, this way, she can't cast illusions, charm person, etc.


Also, the DM would probably go either way on this.

PS: would you be able to find baking soda in the classic D&D world?

Eldonauran
2010-04-13, 06:04 PM
Protection from Evil (which I assume the beguiler is if he is kidnapping). You should be safe from his compulsion spells.

Claudius Maximus
2010-04-13, 06:09 PM
Protection from Evil (which I assume the beguiler is if he is kidnapping). You should be safe from his [Mind-affecting] spells.

Only the ones that give lasting control, like Charm person. I don't think it would work on Sleep, for example.

If he's not evil, use whichever Protection spell applies to his alignment, and you'll enjoy a nice +2 resistance bonus on your saves against his spells.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-13, 06:13 PM
I'm pretty sure sleep is not on the list of command words.

Sanctuary is good if you can reach the paladin before it ends. The beguiler must either be evil or chaotic, so one of the prot spells would be a good buff. Sleep or color spray will put her out of the fight if you know them. What level are you?

The Pressman
2010-04-13, 06:22 PM
We're probably going to be sticking together, and we're currently stuck inside a 40 ft room, and I'm right next to the paladin.


I'm pretty sure sleep is not on the list of command words.

The DM will probably let me. He let me do it before.
Also, consider this:

All of us are 2nd level, and the beguiler is the party bank. We aren't powergaming, and for most of us, its the first time.

EDIT: She's not evil.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-13, 09:29 PM
We're probably going to be sticking together, and we're currently stuck inside a 40 ft room, and I'm right next to the paladin.



The DM will probably let me. He let me do it before.
Also, consider this:

All of us are 2nd level, and the beguiler is the party bank. We aren't powergaming, and for most of us, its the first time.

EDIT: She's not evil.

She must be at least chaotic then. Ransoming a kid back to her parents? What kind of payoff does she expect to get? You make more than a commoner does in a year, in a single day.

The Pressman
2010-04-13, 09:31 PM
chaotic neutral. She wanted to be evil, but the DM wouldn't let her.

Lost Wanderer
2010-04-13, 10:23 PM
chaotic neutral. She wanted to be evil, but the DM wouldn't let her.

Well, that's a bad sign. Probably going to be friction if this stuff keeps up.

That said, I recall "Sleep" and "Die" being valid uses of Command. They make you lie prone for a turn, "sleeping" or "dead".

bartman
2010-04-13, 10:36 PM
PS: would you be able to find baking soda in the classic D&D world?
OK, how has no one asked about this yet????

The Pressman
2010-04-13, 10:36 PM
OK, how has no one asked about this yet????
What do you mean?

bartman
2010-04-13, 10:41 PM
what would you need baking soda for?

The Pressman
2010-04-13, 10:44 PM
long, long, story.

bartman
2010-04-13, 10:47 PM
please, do tell

Im kinda hoping for some vinegar-baking soda bomb or something like that

hey, wonder if my DM would drop a piano on me for that one?

Mystic Muse
2010-04-13, 10:47 PM
long, long, story.

I've got time.

The Pressman
2010-04-13, 10:52 PM
Fine, fine. We had to wait by a wolf den to get the wolves. There was a mention of a bloody tunic. I know a bit (in real life) about DNA extraction, so we thought that we could do a commune to somehow find out "the secrets of indentification". The rest of the group thought it was okay, and I worked out the process, and all the ingredients are easy to get(salt, alcohol, soap, etc) and baking soda was the only one.

It might be overkill, but we're mainly first time players. We have no kill to over.

The Pressman
2010-04-13, 11:01 PM
Well, that's a bad sign. Probably going to be friction if this stuff keeps up.

That's what you'd think, but they're also going out, so not too much problem there. And so far, it hasn't biased him. Along with that, she's someone who got drafted into d&d via a relationship, but so far is enjoying it.

Lost Wanderer
2010-04-13, 11:03 PM
Well, if you're going into that much detail, you could always say it uses some kind of cheap, basic alchemical reagent.

Also, in Eberron there's a feat called Investigate (I think) that lets you use Search to essentially do crime scene analysis. It requires an Investigator's Kit to use it that way. Or maybe that just counts as a masterwork tool and gives a bonus; I don't have a copy of Eberron on hand.

Thurbane
2010-04-13, 11:04 PM
chaotic neutral. She wanted to be evil, but the DM wouldn't let her.
*facepalm*

Ah, that old chestnut. CN, the other Evil... :smallmad:

The Pressman
2010-04-13, 11:05 PM
*facepalm*

Ah, that old chestnut. CN, the other Evil... :smallmad:
As opposed to lawful? Even so, we've got three people who act evil even if they're not officially evil. We have a paladin, so it should be interesting.

Lost Wanderer
2010-04-13, 11:05 PM
That's what you'd think, but they're also going out, so not too much problem there. And so far, it hasn't biased him. Along with that, she's someone who got drafted into d&d via a relationship, but so far is enjoying it.

Even bigger danger sign. And this is from someone who favors CN (the non evil kind) and has played with several significant others who got pulled in and enjoyed it. Best of luck, I guess.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-13, 11:13 PM
As opposed to lawful? Even so, we've got three people who act evil even if they're not officially evil. We have a paladin, so it should be interesting.

It's going to end in a Train Wreck if the Paladin is played anywhere near what the PHB's code is. Technically, you have four people who are evil-wannabes. The Pally is the odd man out, and will either get ganked or will turn each and every one of you in.

CN isn't supposed to be played as The Other Evil. It's the guy who doesn't care unless he profits from it. He may be a Con Artist at worst, but he doesn't act randomly. He knows what he's doing, and will only try if he knows he can get away with the action. In addition, while he may not have a problem with killing, he most likely wouldn't kill at random (that's purely Chaotic Evil, and worth an alignment shift on the spot). Any deaths caused by a CN character will have a very good reason IC, be it a Berserk Button or the character viewing the dead guy as a threat to his (the character's) goals.

Fhaolan
2010-04-13, 11:25 PM
I'm not going to talk about the pseudo-evil thing. That's a pretty standard situation that you will need to resolve before the game moves forward.

However, baking soda as such was invented in the 19th century. You might get the same effect from soda ash (18th century invention), or if you're willing to risk it, natron (which is ancient, bronze-age type of thing). It depends on whether sodium carbonate will do the job for you rather than sodium bicarbonate. But for that matter if you have a spell that tells you how to do DNA extraction with sodium bicarbonate, you can easily cast another spell to tell you how to generate sodium bicarbonate.

The Pressman
2010-04-13, 11:45 PM
It's going to end in a Train Wreck if the Paladin is played anywhere near what the PHB's code is. Technically, you have four people who are evil-wannabes. The Pally is the odd man out, and will either get ganked or will turn each and every one of you in.

CN isn't supposed to be played as The Other Evil. It's the guy who doesn't care unless he profits from it. He may be a Con Artist at worst, but he doesn't act randomly. He knows what he's doing, and will only try if he knows he can get away with the action. In addition, while he may not have a problem with killing, he most likely wouldn't kill at random (that's purely Chaotic Evil, and worth an alignment shift on the spot). Any deaths caused by a CN character will have a very good reason IC, be it a Berserk Button or the character viewing the dead guy as a threat to his (the character's) goals.

Yet, interestingly enough, we have a 10 person party.

Thurbane
2010-04-14, 02:33 AM
As opposed to lawful? Even so, we've got three people who act evil even if they're not officially evil. We have a paladin, so it should be interesting.
What I meant is that CN is often used by certain types of players to circumvent a no Evil characters ruling by the DM. If you're group is cool with it, no problemo. :smallwink:

Coidzor
2010-04-14, 02:54 AM
*facepalm*

Ah, that old chestnut. CN, the other Evil... :smallmad:

Hey, don't look at me. I play it as mercenary.

On the subject of Baking Soda... I found this really awesome page on a cooking-related wiki on leaveners that actually described a bit about how they discovered baking soda and the evolution of cooking from depending upon various different chemical leaveners.

Thurbane
2010-04-14, 03:28 AM
Well, if you're going into that much detail, you could always say it uses some kind of cheap, basic alchemical reagent.
Agreed - in a world with Sun Rods and Tanglefoot Bags, it shouldn't be hard just to rule there is an equivalent substance. The typical D&D world is pretty far removed from historical Medieval Europe, both technologically and socially.

Ravens_Wing
2010-04-14, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by bartman
Im kinda hoping for some vinegar-baking soda bomb or something like that

hey, wonder if my DM would drop a piano on me for that one? It would depend on what you wanted to use the vinigar/baking soda bomb for. Also i would likly only use a Banana Cream Pie (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html)

As to the point at hand sometimes you need to let the hammer fall. (on the other hand it is fun to sneak around behind the pallys back. "LOOK Sir Osric! An EVIL DOOER is outside!")