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Zach J.
2010-04-13, 10:23 PM
In the current campaign I'm a part of I'm playing an elven fighter named Calidor. Calidor's a pretty reckless individual and the DM has hinted that the next encounter could be a pretty dangerous one so just in case I'm working on my back-up character. He's actually Calidor's brother, an elven wizard/cleric who's working towards becoming a Mystic Theurge. I know, I know...not very good mechanically but our current party is made up of a human rogue who's going to multi-class to bard and later prestige into shadowdancer, a swashbuckler/fighter and a knight who's probably going to be remade as a fighter. I figure we could use some spell-casting.

I like the idea of spellcasters a lot, but I've never really played one let alone a combination like a mystic theurge. I was just looking for some recommendations as to spells and feats. I only have access to the core books so please keep recommendations limited to what's found in those. I look forward to your recommendations! Thanks!

P.S. I had actually decided that Calvorus (the brother) was a necromancer/cleric of Nerull but I might have to change that. The party as it stands is made up of CG and CN characters. The knight is LG but acts CN (hence the class change). I imagined that if he was traveling with these characters it would be because he wanted revenge for his brother's death. Sure all living things are abominations according to the dogma of Nerull, but I figure you get one guy you can be mad about when they die. Would a cleric of Wee Jas work better?

dextercorvia
2010-04-13, 10:36 PM
You might see if you can play the pathfinder version.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/mystic-theurge

It gets some additional features. Nothing game breaking, but thematic and perhaps more interesting. I also like to start with the cloistered cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric). It gets more skill points, fewer HP, no heavy armor (which you would give up for the wizard side any way) a bonus domain (knowledge), and a couple of other 'sage' themed items, which makes the transition to wizard more seemless.

Zach J.
2010-04-13, 10:44 PM
Thanks for the link dextercorvia. I'm pretty solid on the skills that would be important to a potential theurge, but I'm not very sure about what feats are considered essential for a spellcaster. Any suggestions?

Edit: Some feats I was looking at were Improved Initiative, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Still Spell, Silent Spell and Quicken Spell.

graeylin
2010-04-13, 10:56 PM
part of a MT's 'problem' is that you can only cast one spell per round (typically), so while you have a lot of spells to choose from, you are still a cleric or a mage every round.

One thing to think about is to prepare a good selection of buffs, especially long lasting ones, for yourself or your party. Cast them before melee, and then in melee, focus on one or two good spells, and don't try to be everything to everyone in the middle of battle. Get some endure elements, for instance, and buff everyone for the arctic adventure. the cleric side can do some enlarges, some protections, etc., while the mage gets a fireball or orb of force. Or, pick some good, utility spells for use here and there, and then load up on dispel magic, and just counterspell during melee. every spell you keep from hitting your allies is good too!

it's a different twist, but maybe you can make it yours.

Godskook
2010-04-13, 11:05 PM
I suggest that you instead have his brother be an Arcane Hierophant, which is a druid-based version of the Mystic Theurge concept, but one that's actually viable for larger portions of the game, including getting 9ths in both classes by L20 without shenanigans(Using Mystic Theurge for the remainder).

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 11:05 PM
I don't recommend MT for 1st time casters: your spellbook can get the best out of you, and the class works best when DMs grind out several encounters without rest. You can easily play a "necromancer" with only the cleric class.
Having acess to arcane and divine necromancy offers no bonus at all, since the maximum HD of undead you can control does not accumulate.

Zach J.
2010-04-13, 11:06 PM
I don't recommend MT for 1st time casters: your spellbook can get the best out of you, and the class works best when DMs grind out several encounters without rest. You can easily play a "necromancer" with only the cleric class.
Having acess to arcane and divine necromancy offers no bonus at all, since the maximum HD of undead you can control does not accumulate.

Hmm...I'm actually starting to get the sense that it would be pretty confusing. Heh. Well...I've never played a (successful) single-classed cleric. What do you recommend in terms of (core-only) feats for a cleric of Wee Jas?

Il_Vec
2010-04-13, 11:19 PM
It depends on your preferred style of play, really. You can be a healer, a buffer, have a bunch of minions, or cast Divine Power and show the fighter who's the man... Or all of the above.

Zach J.
2010-04-13, 11:23 PM
It depends on your preferred style of play, really. You can be a healer, a buffer, have a bunch of minions, or cast Divine Power and show the fighter who's the man... Or all of the above.

Hmm...I like the sound of minions. I used to play Diablo II a lot and my favorite thing to do was have a horde of skeletons following me around. :)

Would the Thaumaturgist prestige class be helpful for that?

krossbow
2010-04-13, 11:24 PM
Its not that theurge is bad so much as that its worse than a dedicated full caster. Your other party members aren't tier ones, so i wouldn't worry too much about not being uber.

Zach J.
2010-04-13, 11:26 PM
Its not that theurge is bad so much as that its worse than a dedicated full caster. Your other party members aren't tier ones, so i wouldn't worry too much about not being uber.

Haha, yeah we're not optimizers. I'm no exception. I usually play fighters, but I thought that with so many in the party that it wouldn't hurt to have something different.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-04-13, 11:32 PM
Yeah, Krossbow beat me to it. It might be to the party's benefit that the only dedicated caster is less powerful but still likely has something useful to cast every round.

That said, if you're going for hoards of undead minions, Dread Necromancer is what you want. If that's being ret-conned, IMO an Archivist is basically like a one-class mystic theurge, just in case you wanted higher level spells and class features besides spellcasting.

WildPyre
2010-04-13, 11:40 PM
Look up a feat called "Practiced Spellcaster" (Complete Divine) you'll probably want to take this twice, once for each side. It allows you to add a +4 to your spellcaster level. You don't get the bonus slots or anything, you just get to consider yourself 4 levels higher for the spells you are casting.

(It can't go above your hit dice but considering the leves you have to drop into your other casting class it helps to keep your spells from being weaker.)

holywhippet
2010-04-14, 12:01 AM
I don't recommend MT for 1st time casters: your spellbook can get the best out of you, and the class works best when DMs grind out several encounters without rest. You can easily play a "necromancer" with only the cleric class.
Having acess to arcane and divine necromancy offers no bonus at all, since the maximum HD of undead you can control does not accumulate.

I sort of agree, but a MT has a whole lot of spells at their fingertips. As such, it's harder to be stuck without a decent spell to cast in any given situation.

Escheton
2010-04-14, 02:12 AM
Yeah, archivist/wizard can prettymuch cast every spell in the book
including druid, ranger and paladin.
and has an actual use for knowledges and move actions.

now, dread necro makes a good fightertype at early lvls, with the touch, weapon prof, dr and selfhealing with the tombtainted soul feat.
Later its just necrotic meatshield spam and such.
Charisma only class, unless you feel like giving him a fighterspec with proper rolls or decent pointbuy.

for non-undead and non-evil critterspawn the druid wizard arcane hyro is the way to go. Wall of wolf ftw

Endarire
2010-04-14, 02:34 AM
Metamagic Math (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7751.0)

Mystic Theurge Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3092.0)

K's Necromancer Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584.0)

Practical Demonkeeping (A Summoner's Guide to the Lower Planes) (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5573.0)

Mastering the Malconvoker (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289.0)

3.5 Cleric Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0)

Druid Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0)

Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards: Being a God (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God)

Mind you, I advise you be a single class caster. A pure Cleric or Druid or Wizard can do most of it if not it all if only indirectly. Animated dead, summons, called creatures, and simulacrums provide minions. If you care mostly about spells, a Wizard does it best. If you prefer to mix casting with melee, Druid is best most the time.