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View Full Version : [3.5] Need to make some simple Epic Spell/Powers



Arakune
2010-04-14, 10:55 AM
One that let's you use any powe/spell in an anti-magic zone (anti-magic field spell, dead magic zones) that are non-epic in nature;

One that let's you replenish some of your PP/Spell slots;

Something that makes you immune to death (as in, dying by something) + immune to assorted status effects.

No mitigating via chain gatting if possible, and make it viable to a level 25~30 character. Pretend you are using epic magic more or less as intended where some have combat uses (if you can have then pre-casted and then just discharge it later it's better), some are one time rituals (huge buff that lasts months or years, one time "I win even if you are a (quasi/minor) deity"), etc.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-04-14, 10:57 AM
How many people are you likely to be able to get together for rituals?

Myou
2010-04-14, 11:12 AM
Pffft, good luck. Epic magic is unusable as written, there's no way you can get such overpowered effects without cheese. Just being immune to weapon damage alone requires a check DC approximately double the maximum damage you want to be immune to.

Arakune
2010-04-14, 11:17 AM
Shame, since if you go at ToS you can get at least half-dozen ways to be immune to HP-death for start. :smallfrown:

Flickerdart
2010-04-14, 11:19 AM
Transform seed yourself into an Emerald Legionnaire, and suddenly you're immune to everything. You don't get magic in AMFs and such, but you're brutal enough that it doesn't matter.

For an easier check, Transform yourself into a Troll (for Regeneration) then creatures immune to Fire and Acid (Half Clay Golem Fire Giant comes to mind). Bam, immunity to most damage.

Myou
2010-04-14, 11:21 AM
Transform seed yourself into an Emerald Legionnaire, and suddenly you're immune to everything. You don't get magic in AMFs and such, but you're brutal enough that it doesn't matter.

Hah hah, sure, but you may as well just use mitigation chains if you're going for rules abuse of that level.

Flickerdart
2010-04-14, 11:24 AM
Hah hah, sure, but you may as well just use mitigation chains if you're going for rules abuse of that level.
I don't see why. The Transform seed can be used to cherry-pick the abilities that Legionnaires get through hard templating work. It's not any cheesier than Epic magic usually is.

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-14, 11:28 AM
One that let's you use any powe/spell in an anti-magic zone (anti-magic field spell, dead magic zones) that are non-epic in nature;

Exists in Lords of Madness as a 9th level spell, but only alows up to 4th level spells with a duration of Instantaneous. Invoke Magic.


One that let's you replenish some of your PP/Spell slots;

Exists for Psions in the form of Bestow Power cheese, Erudites in the form of Dweomer of Transference (via Spell to Power), and in full casters via Gate+Genesis abuse.


Something that makes you immune to death (as in, dying by something) + immune to assorted status effects.

Death Ward isn't enough? Oh well. There's a couple of spells out there that grant immunities to some effects, but I don't know of all that many off-hand.






"Epic more-or-less as intended" is unplayable. The best you can do is a single spell every so often (ala Xykon's anti-Divination spell), it's seriously that bad. Chain-Gating isn't the only way though, as you can create a spell that dominates all spell casters of 7th level and lower, and use their spell slots to create even more Epic spells cheaply. You then use those spells to upgrade from the one you use, until you've dominated every caster other than yourself.

Myou
2010-04-14, 11:30 AM
I don't see why. The Transform seed can be used to cherry-pick the abilities that Legionnaires get through hard templating work. It's not any cheesier than Epic magic usually is.

You might as well say it's no cheesier than an incantatrix with arcane theisis and Initiate of Mystra. :smallconfused:

Flickerdart
2010-04-14, 11:36 AM
You might as well say it's no cheesier than an incantatrix with arcane theisis and Initiate of Mystra. :smallconfused:
So. you're complaining how cheesy Epic magic is...in a thread attempting to use it. I'm not sure I understand your intentions, but they're hardly productive to, well, anything.

Arakune
2010-04-14, 11:37 AM
Exists in Lords of Madness as a 9th level spell, but only alows up to 4th level spells with a duration of Instantaneous. Invoke Magic.


So it isn't all that difficult to extrapolate from that spell then. Good to know



Exists for Psions in the form of Bestow Power cheese, Erudites in the form of Dweomer of Transference (via Spell to Power), and in full casters via Gate+Genesis abuse.


Maybe something that speed time (for the caster) like the infamous persisted timestop?



Death Ward isn't enough? Oh well. There's a couple of spells out there that grant immunities to some effects, but I don't know of all that many off-hand.


Death Ward let you become immune to death effects. The epic version is supposed to let you be immune to death (hp-death, negative level-death, save-or-die death, fate worse than death "death", etc)




"Epic more-or-less as intended" is unplayable. The best you can do is a single spell every so often (ala Xykon's anti-Divination spell), it's seriously that bad. Chain-Gating isn't the only way though, as you can create a spell that dominates all spell casters of 7th level and lower, and use their spell slots to create even more Epic spells cheaply. You then use those spells to upgrade from the one you use, until you've dominated every caster other than yourself.

The exemple of Xykon is a good ritual type spell, and then we have suberb dispelling that had it use. Combat spells i'm thinking are either that line or a "pseudo-ritual" spell (1 hour cast time, costs lower spell slots, w/e) that you pre-cast in the morning and use it later in case of an emergency or when you just need that extra OOMP only a epic spell can deliver.

Eldariel
2010-04-14, 11:48 AM
Maybe something that speed time (for the caster) like the infamous persisted timestop?

Mnemonic Enhancer is a good baseline if you just want to restore some spell slots. Alternatively, one of the Baldur's Gate uses of Wish is "Act as if you had rested for the night"; seems like that could be something along the lines of what you want. Though you need some restriction on it, of course, to prevent infinite recycling of everything with it.

arguskos
2010-04-14, 11:50 AM
Mnemonic Enhancer is a good baseline if you just want to restore some spell slots. Alternatively, one of the Baldur's Gate uses of Wish is "Act as if you had rested for the night"; seems like that could be something along the lines of what you want. Though you need some restriction on it, of course, to prevent infinite recycling of everything with it.
The BG2 use of wish doesn't restore the Wish spell used, which prevents endless recycling. It also doesn't hurt that Wish gives you a random selection of options in BG2, so you don't even get the option sometimes.

Eldariel
2010-04-14, 11:53 AM
The BG2 use of wish doesn't restore the Wish spell used, which prevents endless recycling. It also doesn't hurt that Wish gives you a random selection of options in BG2, so you don't even get the option sometimes.

Aye. With maxed Wis though (I think it takes 18), you generally get what you want. But yeah, as an epic spell, that limit is not really necessary anymore, but not restoring the slot is a start

Nidogg
2010-04-14, 12:43 PM
I thought Antimagic/ dead magic/ planar null zones were the ONLY way to completly annul magic. Heck the only spell that can even touch deity material (i.e disjunction) HAS ONLY A SMALL CHANCE of effecting Am feilds. So I would say, no. You cant do that. For, even though you are epic, you arent infallable.

FishAreWet
2010-04-14, 01:02 PM
I thought Antimagic/ dead magic/ planar null zones were the ONLY way to completly annul magic. Heck the only spell that can even touch deity material (i.e disjunction) HAS ONLY A SMALL CHANCE of effecting Am feilds. So I would say, no. You cant do that. For, even though you are epic, you arent infallable.

There are multiple ways pre-epic to do it. Like Invoke Magic, Iron Heart Surge, Initiate of Mystra, and Spellfire. Just to name a few.

Eldariel
2010-04-14, 01:49 PM
I thought Antimagic/ dead magic/ planar null zones were the ONLY way to completly annul magic. Heck the only spell that can even touch deity material (i.e disjunction) HAS ONLY A SMALL CHANCE of effecting Am feilds. So I would say, no. You cant do that. For, even though you are epic, you arent infallable.

Epic Spells explicitly don't give a crap about Anti-Magic Fields, so it's not much of a stretch to write an epic spell that enables casting non-epic spells in AMFs if non-epic spells are weaker anyways. And yeah, as mentioned many times, Invoke Magic is a level 9 spell, and completely ordinary at that, which enables casting a spell without access to magic.

Arakune
2010-04-14, 02:28 PM
I thought Antimagic/ dead magic/ planar null zones were the ONLY way to completly annul magic. Heck the only spell that can even touch deity material (i.e disjunction) HAS ONLY A SMALL CHANCE of effecting Am feilds. So I would say, no. You cant do that. For, even though you are epic, you arent infallable.

And yet you can (given enough CL) shatter an antimagic field with disjunciton, or orb to death the walking target guy that it's inside the AMF, or summon creatures with high SR, or simply cast wall of force/prismatic wall or prismatic sphere in order to break LOE and resume the rain of destruction.