Unseen seer: questions for those with experience

[Samb]

I was thinking of playing one but I have a few concerns/questions:

1) this seems to be mainly a NPC fluff-wise. How do you play information broke run unless you are working closely with your DM? Unseen seer seems to fit spy/info broker on the serious side and a peeping tom/prevert on the playful side. I don't think my DM wants to reveal everything to me and I don't want to play a perv. Any thoughts?

2)Silly mechanical issue but can practised spellcaster boost the ML for my other schools' spells? I think it should since practised manifester works on schism but I'd like to be sure.

Thanks in advance.

[Kylarra]

I was thinking of playing one but I have a few concerns/questions:
2)Silly mechanical issue but can practised spellcaster boost the ML for my other schools' spells? I think it should since practised manifester works on schism but I'd like to be sure.
Practiced Spellcaster only affects one class.


I am totally paying attention to what I'm reading.:smallsigh:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Practiced Spellcaster only affects one class.

But since Unseen Seer doesn't have spellcasting, merely promotes, or doesn't promote, another spellcasting class's spells, this isn't a problem.

[Kylarra]

But since Unseen Seer doesn't have spellcasting, merely promotes, or doesn't promote, another spellcasting class's spells, this isn't a problem.Oh I see. I was thinking something different other than the Unseen Seer's Divination Spell Power. Yes, it would boost those.

I'm really off my game today. I was thinking multiple classes instead of schools for some reason.

[Keld Denar]

1) this seems to be mainly a NPC fluff-wise. How do you play information broke run unless you are working closely with your DM? Unseen seer seems to fit spy/info broker on the serious side and a peeping tom/prevert on the playful side. I don't think my DM wants to reveal everything to me and I don't want to play a perv. Any thoughts?
There are actually some REALLY nice combat Divinations like Hunter's Eye and Grave Strike that you gain access to that really increase your combat prowass. Not all divinations are for recon. And as a PC, you can use Invis and Silence in conjuntion with high Move Silent and Hide skills to be a nearly undetectable scout. Throw in a little Darkstalker(LoMadness) action and you shouldn't have to fear much in being detected while you carry on your business.



2)Silly mechanical issue but can practised spellcaster boost the ML for my other schools' spells? I think it should since practised manifester works on schism but I'd like to be sure.


You apply bonuses and penalties in the most beneficial order. If you have Practiced Spellcaster, you can apply it AFTER you take the penalty to your CL with all non-divinations. Since USS gives you -3 CL, and you lose another CL due to the obligatory Rogue or Spelltheif dip, Practiced Spellcaster's +4 neatly covers up any drawback therein. Its a feat, it SHOULD be useful.

[Eldariel]

And the whole "Diviner can't gain information" is only a problem if DM doesn't have a clue of what's going on...and most such DMs can just come up stuff they'll stick to on the spot. You can also be expected to have information you don't, as a player, know, and be able to use it when it becomes relevant. It's quite doable.

[Samb]

I was thinking rogue2/wizard3/USS10 (level 15 campaign) so I will lose one CL no matter what. Still it's nice to know that I'll only lose 1 CL for +3 in Div which is fair I think.

[JasonP]

I was thinking rogue2/wizard3/USS10 (level 15 campaign) so I will lose one CL no matter what. Still it's nice to know that I'll only lose 1 CL for +3 in Div which is fair I think.

What about using spellthief instead of rogue? It just depends on what you're doing with the character but it would allow you to burn other caster's spell slots with it (best if you take master spellthief).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I was thinking rogue2/wizard3/USS10 (level 15 campaign) so I will lose one CL no matter what. Still it's nice to know that I'll only lose 1 CL for +3 in Div which is fair I think.

And the cost of a feat...

I tend to build to Arcane Trickster, personally, because I don't like having to blow a feat to counterbalance a class feature. But your mileage may vary.

[Sinfire Titan]

I was thinking rogue2/wizard3/USS10 (level 15 campaign) so I will lose one CL no matter what. Still it's nice to know that I'll only lose 1 CL for +3 in Div which is fair I think.

Don't go Rogue 2. 1 is more than enough. Use Able Learner if needed, but don't go 2.

Alternatively, Wizard 5/Master Specialist 4/Keeper of the Cerulean Sign 2/Unseen Seer 9 (or 4/Arcane Trickster 5, or however you want those two). Use Martial Study/Stance to get Hide ranks and Sneak Attack.

Or use Master Spellthief.

[Samb]

Well I like rogue for evasion really, hence two levels in it, it's more a batman main with trap sense and SA, so I don't really have too much use for that many feats, maybe craven (fits with USS flavor too), don't really need TWF since it's mainly a caster.
I don't know what to do after USS 10 though. Arcane trickster looks promising especially with the ability to apply metamagic for free when combined with a skill trick.

[Sinfire Titan]

Well I like rogue for evasion really, hence two levels in it, it's more a batman main with trap sense and SA, so I don't really have too much use for that many feats, maybe craven (fits with USS flavor too), don't really need TWF since it's mainly a caster.
I don't know what to do after USS 10 though. Arcane trickster looks promising especially with the ability to apply metamagic for free when combined with a skill trick.

You can get Evasion with a feat and a spell (Shape Soulmeld+Bind Chakra, Least). No need to lose another level to Rogue.

[Keld Denar]

Evasion is kinda over rated, IMO. You probably won't have the Ref save to reliably make the Ref saves all the time. You'd be better of with the extra level in Wizard and using the extra spells/day to shore up that weakness with some nice energy resistance or such.

Rogue1/Wiz4/USS10/ArcaneTrickster5 is pretty common. Alternatively, if you blow some feats, AT3/Archmage2 is decent. Arcane Reach is nice for delivering touch attack sneak attacks at range. Costs you 3 feats though for the 2x Spell Focus and Skill Focus: Spellcraft.

A 3rd option is Rogue1/Wiz4/USS10/SpellwarpedSniper5. Its a 5 level PrC in Complete Scoundrel, gives you Sudden Strike (effectively SA, since you won't be flanking much), and the ability to convert area spells into rays. This is really nasty since it takes the save away and replaces it with a touch attack. If you use AoEs that have a 2ndary effect (check out Frost Breath, SpC), there is no save against the 2ndary effect. They just take it and like it...

[Samb]

I knew Sinfire was going to bring up Incarum at one point or another. I'd like to avoid it if possible since....... I don't get it at all. I tried to read that book and just ended up confused.

I hate to lose evasion but you guys do have a point.

Spellwarp sniper...... now that is intriguing. I will have something to think about when my PC hits 16 then.

[Keld Denar]

You could dip into it now.

Rogue1/Wiz4/USS4/SWS5/USS1 would give you a passable 15th level character. Continue on with USS all the way home.

Spellwarping is decent if you can find the true gem spells, or if you take one mid level spell an metamagic the bajebus out of it. Don't underestimate the power of Fireball when you Split Ray Empower Twin Energy Admixture it with Arcane Thesis and 10d6 sneak attack tacked on for good measure. You might want to buy more dice...

[Whyte_Widow]

current character in one of my games.

sorc6/rog3/arcane trickster3/unseen seer2

i do not plan on going past 2 in unseen seer and will most likely go back to arcane trickster.

if you really want to dip into unseen seer for RP purposes.

go diviner5/master specialist 5/unseen seer 10/

or some variant of the sort. it would be fun in a political campaign, one would think.

[Samb]

yeah I was going to go diviner naturally.

I guess I'm gonna have to dig around for the reflex save spells now. The 3/4 BAB that rogue, USS and SWS get should be helpful for touch attacks, but now I'm more dependent on DEX as well. Still sounds like it will be fun to play even if spellwarp sniper is totally not what I had in mind fluff wise for my arcane spy.

[Keld Denar]

Frost Breath and Great Thunderclap are 2 of the biggest options for no-save screwage. Wings of Flurry is another good one, but its sorcerer only and the only ways to get it as a wizard are kinda shady.

And you don't have to be a Diviner for an Unseen Seer. Conjourer would be a great fit as well. Then again, Conjourers are a great fit anywhere. You don't have to specialize either. The normally banned schools of Evocation and Enchantment would actually be pretty useful for you in this situation. Evocation has a lot of great rays and Spellwarp-able spells that facilitate transmission of Sneak Attack, and Enchantment has fun ways to beguile your foes in a way to garner useful info.

Up to you.