PDA

View Full Version : It's epic.



Tyndmyr
2010-04-15, 10:47 AM
Aright, so here's the problem. My one round robin campaign is suffering from two particular DMs using "it's epic" as an answer to everything. Stupid stuff, like me attempting to spellcraft a spell, invariably results in a "you have no idea. It's epic". Im ok with some players being epic, and Im aware that even a +40 to spellcraft has it's limits...but it's getting to be absolutely routine, and it's an excuse for wild railroading.

Let me give the example of the last mission:

Epicly epic wizard berates us all, gives us wierd glowy ball and five keys, tells us to go get "something" from a room. We go down to the room. We get attacked on sight by the guild(despite being members of the guild we are in. odd. We just went down to the basement). At the door, we take out two sorta melee, sorta spellcaster guys. I actually do get to make a spellcraft check here, on shield. Reasonable enough. No real challenge killing them off, though all their gear magically crumbles when they die. Lame. I did have to explain what negative levels do, again, and the DM said "Im not bothering with that". It's a flat -1 to all, and -5hp. How hard is that?

We get into the room, and are again attacked. Every random researcher apparently has a table full of magical items, and begins blasting at us. Party disperses and starts cutting them down. Lucky me, since I picked up the glowy ball, get attacked by an epic...something. I can't see him ever on my turn(though I can in between), and he's always "right behind me". Apparently wings of cover fails to work on him. Every time he stabs me in the back, he drains one spell of each of my top three levels, chosen randomly. Aoe's result in "He saves" without any roll of the dice.

After a few rounds of this, the DM tells me I get a vision of the glowy ball being crushed. After playing "guess what the DM wants exactly" for a bit, I figure out that despite being impervious to being thrown, magically crushed, etc, a simple squeeze with my hand will do the job. Epic wierd dude is paralyzed in the corner. He is, apparently, covered with magical buffs. I cannot figure out what any of them are or get any info about them with detect magic. Nor can I dispell any of them. We can't loot the magical items because "they're dangerous".

Doors open on the far room once everyone dies. We go in, because that's what you do when doors randomly open in places, apparently. The room is chocked full of magical, unrecognisable stuff. In the center, there are five pedestals. With keyholes. There are also five keys, and five of us. We get the hint, and the first few people to put keys in the pedestals immediately fall apparently dead. The last two of us balk a bit at the idea of our characters committing what appears to be suicide, then rummage through our compatriots pockets before deciding to not loot them, and instead, put in our keys like good players. We turn into robots. Epicly epic wizard returns. He mentally dominates us all basically to show that he can. We are now "completely awesome" apparently. Melee people can rip walls down and crap. The casters all have double spells per day. I'd complain about this being broken, but none of my spells are allowed to actually have an effect anyway. None of us can level or learn new skills or spells.

Not looking forward to tomorrows game. How do I tell the current DM that he's a complete idiot, without actually calling him a complete idiot? I do hang out with these people a fair bit, and would prefer not to offend everyone. However, I do wish to actually play D&D, not listen to some tale about transformers.

DragoonWraith
2010-04-15, 10:51 AM
Wow, that's god-awful. Seriously, railroading is unsurprising, but that's such a weak plot, too.

I don't really have any advice. I'd probably be blunt about it. It probably wouldn't go over that well.

Nohwl
2010-04-15, 10:54 AM
ask if you could get a chance to dm.

SilverStar
2010-04-15, 10:56 AM
Ahh, spell suck. Might have been an infernal, or its little brother.

Aaaanyway...

It seems as if your DM has caught a bad case of the "It's my story, dammit, and you'll follow it, like it or not!" blues. There's really no cure for this, but you could try talking to him...

I mean, if your "gift" allows you to have double spell slots, but your spells are dead, what kind of gift is it? He apparently wants you all to be ultimate badasses, and badassery is not accomplished when you can't even identify some guy's random ward.

Using Spellcraft to identify magic items isn't easy, though- you better be taking a LOT more than a +40.

Tyndmyr
2010-04-15, 11:00 AM
ask if you could get a chance to dm.

It's quasi-round robin. I DM way more than my fair share anyhow, mainly because Im semi-prepared, and can usually invent something on the fly when Im not.

I know the epic types well enough to know that the race of them all is human. There's a lot of them.

Oh, I don't demand that I be able to instantly identify absolutely anything with a spellcraft check...but detect magic should give me something. I've got rather nice skills, including a variety of knowledges...which have been pretty worthless to date.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-15, 11:03 AM
\
Using Spellcraft to identify magic items isn't easy, though- you better be taking a LOT more than a +40.

He's not trying to identify the items, he trying to identify the spells.

SilverStar
2010-04-15, 11:03 AM
Detect Magic should at least give you school and strength of aura, even if it stuns you because "it's freaking epic".

Retrain into archivist, maybe, and let your knowledges work for you?

In all seriousness, though, it sounds as if this particular DM may not be the best choice for the continued integrity of your game. Our group takes turns DMing our epic world, and one of the guys is gently discouraged from running for just this reason.

Just_Ice
2010-04-15, 11:24 AM
Run the real DM through and tell him his death was epic.

Just kidding. Here you have a couple options. Do petty things and escalate it (DM will win in the end but will likely stop DMing), or sneakily get everyone's confirmation on "this DM sucks" and hijack or quit. Or, live with it.

randomhero00
2010-04-15, 11:28 AM
Might be worth just doing what your character would do. Like the key example. "Wow, they died. Let's get out of here."

After what happened, you could just retire your character. Keep playing the way you should until he gets the hint.

Tyndmyr
2010-04-15, 11:33 AM
Living with it seems frustrating and boring.

I could kill the character, easily. He's sufficiently arrogant that the idea of approaching a problem through methods other than stabbing them is...unlikely.

Escalation is also an option. The thing is, the epic opponents suffer from the no problem. He just says nothing works. The foes we're actually supposed to kill tend to be sufficiently trivial that they're not actually dangerous to anyone. Without the stupid epic stuff, I can't think of a single mission I couldn't have soloed. Or the MT couldn't have soloed. Or the druid. Hell, the assassin could have done the same. The only person who *might* not be able to solo everything is the noob CW samurai, but even there, he's geared such that his full attacks are retarded.

So...I need a fun way of going off the rails. Preferably one that will amuse my fellow players. Assume level 12 wizard/incantatrix/Iot7v, who knows a wild variety of spells and currently has a feat slot needing filling.

Mastikator
2010-04-15, 11:35 AM
Seems like you DM has no idea what he's doing, but dammit you're gonna have to live through it anyway. I mean really, it looks like he just improvised, and poorly.
Um, ask him to tone it down with the uber epic of doom and the DM fiat. Though he may be a jerk about it, so just in case, make sure that the other players are ready to gang up on him. Peer pressure will crush his ego, for sure.

Radar
2010-04-15, 11:36 AM
Key word for today: versimilitude.
If players are to immerse themselves in a world and a story, a world and story have to be believeble. Key role here have the rules of the game, since they allow players to plan their actions and prepare themselves for anticipated situations. The same goes for plot - there has to be some reason behind NPC's actions, otherwise players can't predict anything and thus are unable to act on their own.

I'd suggest politely telling the problematic DM, that it would greatly enhance everyone's gaming experiance and improve the cooperation between players and the DM, if he considered playing more by the rules.

Otodetu
2010-04-15, 11:42 AM
I would just leave if i had to endure such horrid gameplay.
Just tell it out quite clear that is sucks.

shadow_archmagi
2010-04-15, 11:51 AM
Ask your DM how he thinks he's doing. See whether he views the group as hostile towards his story, cooperative, or what.

Gently explain that he's terrible.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-04-15, 11:54 AM
A lot of newer or inexperienced DMs have this sort of problem, that they're trying to tell a story that's totally awesome in their mind, without stepping outside of themselves to think about whether the players will enjoy being a part of their game. I doubt that your friends are being mean spirited about doing this, they just don't know how to run a game. While calling them out on their DMing style may solve the problem in the short term, the problem here is that they don't know any better. Just being told they're doing something wrong won't help if they don't know how to run a game right. These dudes don't need a scolding, they need to play more in a free-ish game world and they need experience running a game.

My other possible explanation would be, I'll bet that a lot of the curt replies you're getting stem from the fact that you're probably a lot more experienced a player, which means they're worried that if they let you get away with anything, you'll walk all over their game. Honestly, this sort of thing happens mostly when you have a pretty competitive group and the people who most frequently lose in rules debates/battles/whatever get a chance at the helm. They know they aren't likely to beat you with anything other than total authoritarian power. Really, if that's the case, you'll need to try to start working with these guys cooperatively to create a more friendly gaming atmosphere. A little competition is healthy and fun, but if you've got members who are completely on the other end of the power spectrum from you, there's always going to be difficulties.


Without the stupid epic stuff, I can't think of a single mission I couldn't have soloed.

This kinda verifies what I'm saying. If you want things to get better, you can't respond by escalation, you have to take the first steps towards disarmnament. You have to reel back a bit.

Really, I can't offer much by way of a quick fix for this. It's your prerogative to teach and encourage your friends to become better gamers.

Tyndmyr
2010-04-15, 12:01 PM
Gently explain that he's terrible.

See, this is the part I have issue with. I'm normally not excessively rude, but I typically can't manage to actually pull this sort of thing off.

Hmm, wonder if anticipate teleport + teleport, etc would be a fun shenanigan. I could keep it up for...quite some time. IE, more times than any reasonable wizard would have had teleport prepared. Run the hell away.

Captain Six
2010-04-15, 12:02 PM
Sounds like the DM learned DMing from videogames. It's a mistake to be sure but not an unforgivable one, those of us not fortunate to be tutored in the ways of Tabletop RPGs by an experienced player most often started that way as well. I know I did. The solution to this problem is not In Game, you CANNOT break the rails of a determined DM especially if he has a buzzword like "Epic" to explain everything. If you are not happy with the way a game is run and try to ruin it from the inside then all you are doing is Trolling, bad game or no, and you are no better for doing it. Find some solution out of game or there will be no happy ending.

Tyndmyr
2010-04-15, 12:06 PM
This kinda verifies what I'm saying. If you want things to get better, you can't respond by escalation, you have to take the first steps towards disarmnament. You have to reel back a bit.

Not did, could have. And you missed the point that nearly anyone else in the party could have soloed them as well. Yes, plenty of our builds are ridiculously powerful(the current DMs included), but we don't have a significant imbalance in power within the game.

If it was him trying to get back at us for not having enough power, why would he give us all crazy power boosts? What you're saying doesn't make sense.

Dust
2010-04-15, 12:13 PM
Tyndmyr, I'm with you. The advice of Live with it and Talk to your GM, help him improve the game aren't gonna fly here. Personally, I share your mindset and would probably just stop taking it seriously and squeeze what remaining joy from the game I could.

Start busting out multiple Gaeas spells everyday on random people; everything from important non-epic npcs (No saving throw, sup) to random villagers. Have them run errands for you or start finding a way to transform you and your party back, or better yet, start building an evil empire.

Whenever you speak OOCly, move your arms stiffly like you're doing The Robot dance. Whenever you speak ICly, end each sentence with BEEP.

You're about to get Limited Wish, which would also go a long way in reshaping the world to your own image. If the GM requests you stop, inform him that you now understand thanks to Epicly Epic Wizard that the only purpose to power is to be 'totally awesome' and you plan on taking that lesson to heart.

BEEP.

Tyndmyr
2010-04-15, 12:21 PM
I approve this message on the basis that it made me chuckle. I will now roleplay a robot to the fullest. I'm also going to call the epic wizard Dave and frequently tell him what I can't let him do.

BEEP.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-04-15, 12:22 PM
Not did, could have. And you missed the point that nearly anyone else in the party could have soloed them as well. Yes, plenty of our builds are ridiculously powerful(the current DMs included), but we don't have a significant imbalance in power within the game.

If it was him trying to get back at us for not having enough power, why would he give us all crazy power boosts? What you're saying doesn't make sense.

I'm not talking about power within the game. I'm talking about how you guys interact. His offering you guys super-power upgrades in the game are (a) meaningless, because he still is maintaining total authority of the game, so you'll be using your awesome powers to accomplish only his goals (you pointed this out yourself, how your spells are basically useless when they're not doing what he tells you to do), and (b) him misunderstanding what it is you guys want, which is, again, actual power to do something in the story.

How'd Xykon say it? Power can take a lot of forms. In this case, it's taking the form of dominance over the storyline. Everyone's trying to dominate the game, rather than play it.

Slayn82
2010-04-15, 12:26 PM
Hi Tyndmyr,

Well, i had battled this battle many times when i was younger. My DM loved to pull this kind of trick. The solution i found was to subtly convince our group to play another system (Gurps/Shadowrun), who desencouraged this kind of thing, with that DM. Also, i made sure he READ THE FREAKING RULES AND GAME SETTING THIS TIME BEFORE DMING.

So, his flaws became more evident, and he improved his style. Now, when we play D&D, he sometimes pull the epic stuff, but those usually come with a mile of warning, and a lot less railroading. After all, epic guys usually have a lot of reputation and devastation around them. And those magic auras can be sensed from a long range anyway, so justificably most people are very hesitant to mess with that stuff, and we are the unfortunate ones who do.

Kylarra
2010-04-15, 12:31 PM
I approve this message on the basis that it made me chuckle. I will now roleplay a robot to the fullest. I'm also going to call the epic wizard Dave and frequently tell him what I can't let him do.

BEEP.I don't usually support spite-related IC behavior, but this made me giggle.


BEEP.

Radar
2010-04-15, 12:33 PM
See, this is the part I have issue with. I'm normally not excessively rude, but I typically can't manage to actually pull this sort of thing off.

(...)
The trick is to talk positive: "this and that would make the game better" instead of "you do this and that wrong".

JGoldenberg
2010-04-15, 12:36 PM
I'd say talk to the other players seperately to see if they share their views, if they do then you guys could talk to the DM as a group and explain to him that the way he is running the game is unbalanced, and more importantly, not fun. Since you're obviously the more experienced player, give him a helping hand. I've a similar problem with the other DM in my group who runs adventures when I need a break to work on new campaigns or lifes just preoccupying me too much. Firmly putting your foot down and making them understand that theres a way to have his story play out without completely disregarding concepts such as rules, balance, or most importantly, fun.

Otherwise, I'd advise you to just not play his campaigns. I've gotten a little too egomaniacal with cultivating my own DM skills to tolerate DMing like that, and I would rather be without a group than in one with a terrible DM. Since you do round robin you don't have to go that far however, just sit out when he's running them if he refuses to change his ways.

Ganurath
2010-04-15, 12:41 PM
Have your character behave as though the enemy put more thought into things than the DM did. For example, that door that mysteriously opened? Obviously, it's a trap! Search for secret doors, alternate routes, mechanisms to disarm, etc! Is the villain monologuing? Shout "He's stalling for reinforcements!" before throwing a Magic Missile at him to test his defenses. Is the NPC providing the briefing being vague? Accuse him of villainous intent, and refuse to do his dirty work unless he's either up front or can provide a convincing reason to be vague.

In short, hang lampshades on the railroad tracks in such a manner that the problem is illuminated.

valadil
2010-04-15, 12:49 PM
How long do you have to put up with his DMing? I found bad DMs are more tolerable in a round robin game since you know you'll be having fun again in 1-2 sessions. It sounded pretty bad though, I couldn't even read through all of it.

Maybe share some articles about good DMing with him? In particular I think he needs to read up on "yes...and" and maybe something about the negative sides of DMPCs (which is how I'm reading all the epic untouchable characters).

DragoonWraith
2010-04-15, 12:50 PM
Have your character behave as though the enemy put more thought into things than the DM did. For example, that door that mysteriously opened? Obviously, it's a trap! Search for secret doors, alternate routes, mechanisms to disarm, etc! Is the villain monologuing? Shout "He's stalling for reinforcements!" before throwing a Magic Missile at him to test his defenses. Is the NPC providing the briefing being vague? Accuse him of villainous intent, and refuse to do his dirty work unless he's either up front or can provide a convincing reason to be vague.

In short, hang lampshades on the railroad tracks in such a manner that the problem is illuminated.
So far, I like this one best.

MCerberus
2010-04-15, 01:08 PM
I wouldn't advocate a passive-aggressive approach (even the hilarious ones) until you've at least tried the calm upfront method. Remember to have the other players in the room but not right up with you when you begin the conversation or it may get a "you're ganging up on me" response.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-15, 01:47 PM
So...I need a fun way of going off the rails. Preferably one that will amuse my fellow players. Assume level 12 wizard/incantatrix/Iot7v, who knows a wild variety of spells and currently has a feat slot needing filling.

:smallconfused: That class combination might be a small part of the problem (not that this is in any way your fault). Your GM might NEED to say 'your spells don't work' to prevent you from killing EPIC BBEG 9000. Is your GM completely fine with that? Tell him you'll tone it down if he's stop railroading so much.

Myou
2010-04-15, 02:20 PM
Ugh, wow. I don't think childish passive-aggressive games are going to help - you'll just end up losing your friend.

If I was in your position I would just tell him the truth, that I don't like him declaring my actions ineffective and giving me no control over events.

Paulus
2010-04-15, 02:22 PM
Ugh, what we have here is a failure to communicate. Apparently he wants to run a certain game... and apparently you guys want o play D&D. So. You SHOULD have a sit down talk with him about asking him why he didn't just outright tell everyone about his game concept in the first place? Why force you to be robots? He could have just said, "I'd like to run a game with all warforged but with different roles, all created by an epic wizard with various personalities as a test." Instead he let you create whatever you want and FORCED you to do what he wanted. Removed all your options to suit his game. This not only is absolutely rude in game running, it is rude in friendship, because he should have trusted you all enough to say "This is the game I'd like to run." and you all be friends would have thought it was a cool idea and maybe even added to it!

but no. Now we find ourselves here, stripped of free will. Robots. Melee. robots. While awesome in potential, it is marred by the fact none of you really had a choice. So, again, sit down with him and tell say- "look I've DM'ed lots of times for everyone, you've played my games, do I do these things? Deny you at every turn? How can you expect anyone to have fun when you won't even really let them 'play' with your world?" and if he doesn't get the gentle reminder, tell him it is alright and you'll explaining it better during game.

When the game comes up... ask him what your character does. It would be great if you could get everyone else in on it as well. Each turn everyone asks him what their character does. "I try to take his amulet." "DM: You can't it's epicly held ot his body." "Okay, I turn and leave." "DM: You can't, you are surrounded by eic ninjas." "wow! What happens next?" "DM: well the Ninja's tell you to go back down or they will kill you." "Oh! What happens next?" "DM: well what do you do?" "What do I do?" "DM: Look I don't want to play your little game alright?" "Well neither do I." and then shake your head sadly. It would be 'epic' if every other played did this as well to get the point across.


there is also always the option of tooting the train whistle each time he 'epic no's you.

Dust
2010-04-15, 02:34 PM
there is also always the option of tooting the train whistle each time he 'epic no's you.
I agree.

BEEP.

Optimator
2010-04-15, 02:37 PM
Remember, bad gaming is worse than no gaming. Mediocre gaming I'd stick around for though.

Another_Poet
2010-04-15, 02:43 PM
I'm guessing that in this case "it's epic" means "it's not a normal ability/rule, just something I made up cuz it seemed cool, so I don't know how to answer your question."

In this game, that's the least of your worries. Get out.

Tyndmyr
2010-04-15, 03:01 PM
I'm guessing that in this case "it's epic" means "it's not a normal ability/rule, just something I made up cuz it seemed cool, so I don't know how to answer your question."

This is pretty much the case. Im actually ok with a certain degree of homebrew, especially when it comes to plot-centric things...but actual homebrew means adding something that fits in the context of the existing game rules, even if it is new. I mean, I'd be ok with mr Epic dude making his reflex save on a 2+. That's tough, but not outside the realm of possibility. It's the "you cannot do anything whatsoever that will have any effect except for X" that I take issue with.

I think I'm gonna do everything suggested. Except for the "just talking" or "toning down my character". Hah. I've cast a veil precisely once(amusingly enough, that got entirely ignored by an epic character, even though he could have easily soaked the damage. It's not as if he was in any danger by following the rules). My persisted spells are split mostly evenly among the entire party every day. In fact, Im pretty sure Tinydwarfman didn't read through the first post, given his talk about the DM saving the BBEG.

On the bright side, he is moving away in a coupla months, so one way or another, it's solved then. Until then, I plan do do as follows:

1. Bring the epic level handbook with to the next game for the reference pile.

2. Amusingly highlight the railroad tracks by acting in character.

3. BEEP.

Further suggestions of hilarity are always quite welcome. Remember, it doesn't matter if they amuse the DM, just so long as they amuse me.

BEEP.

Emmerask
2010-04-15, 03:08 PM
Let me give the example of the last mission:

Epicly epic wizard berates us all, gives us wierd glowy ball and five keys, tells us to go get "something" from a room. We go down to the room. We get attacked on sight by the guild(despite being members of the guild we are in. odd. We just went down to the basement). At the door, we take out two sorta melee, sorta spellcaster guys. I actually do get to make a spellcraft check here, on shield. Reasonable enough. No real challenge killing them off, though all their gear magically crumbles when they die. Lame. I did have to explain what negative levels do, again, and the DM said "Im not bothering with that". It's a flat -1 to all, and -5hp. How hard is that?

We get into the room, and are again attacked. Every random researcher apparently has a table full of magical items, and begins blasting at us. Party disperses and starts cutting them down. Lucky me, since I picked up the glowy ball, get attacked by an epic...something. I can't see him ever on my turn(though I can in between), and he's always "right behind me". Apparently wings of cover fails to work on him. Every time he stabs me in the back, he drains one spell of each of my top three levels, chosen randomly. Aoe's result in "He saves" without any roll of the dice.

After a few rounds of this, the DM tells me I get a vision of the glowy ball being crushed. After playing "guess what the DM wants exactly" for a bit, I figure out that despite being impervious to being thrown, magically crushed, etc, a simple squeeze with my hand will do the job. Epic wierd dude is paralyzed in the corner. He is, apparently, covered with magical buffs. I cannot figure out what any of them are or get any info about them with detect magic. Nor can I dispell any of them. We can't loot the magical items because "they're dangerous".

Doors open on the far room once everyone dies. We go in, because that's what you do when doors randomly open in places, apparently. The room is chocked full of magical, unrecognisable stuff. In the center, there are five pedestals. With keyholes. There are also five keys, and five of us. We get the hint, and the first few people to put keys in the pedestals immediately fall apparently dead. The last two of us balk a bit at the idea of our characters committing what appears to be suicide, then rummage through our compatriots pockets before deciding to not loot them, and instead, put in our keys like good players. We turn into robots. Epicly epic wizard returns. He mentally dominates us all basically to show that he can. We are now "completely awesome" apparently. Melee people can rip walls down and crap. The casters all have double spells per day. I'd complain about this being broken, but none of my spells are allowed to actually have an effect anyway. None of us can level or learn new skills or spells.

Not looking forward to tomorrows game. How do I tell the current DM that he's a complete idiot, without actually calling him a complete idiot? I do hang out with these people a fair bit, and would prefer not to offend everyone. However, I do wish to actually play D&D, not listen to some tale about transformers.



Hm sounds a bit wierd all around ^^

The basic story of the adventure while a bit generic is still okay, sadly very badly executed with extremely odd stuff happening.

A new dm who is confronted with such high level players and powerlevel (wiz/inc/iot7v is hard to challange even as a veteran dm ithout killing the party in the progress :smallwink:) he just could not help himself but to resort to "it´s epic". And still his encounters where pushovers pretty much without the "epic" stuff it would have been a walk in the park I guess^^.

Anyway it might be better to start a low level campaign with him as a dm that way he can learn how to challange the party slowly and adventures for low to mid level are easier to do too.

/edit All this assumes of course that he is a fairly new dm if not then he is just not good at it ^^

Tyndmyr
2010-04-15, 03:11 PM
For the record, this campaign started at level 1, and he's been in the DM rotation since the beginning. Yes, that's right...we were encountering epic level crap at level 1.

Emmerask
2010-04-15, 03:12 PM
Okay then I´m a bit speechless :smalleek:

ryzouken
2010-04-15, 04:32 PM
Time for Pun Pun methinks. I enjoy thoroughly the resulting discussion from that.

"It's epic"
"So am I. In fact, I'm so epic, I have every class ability and spell in existence, whether I know about them as a player or not. Therefore, whatever THAT is, I have it. I also know exactly how it works and have six counters to it immediately accessible, and can generate an infinite number of additional counters at a whim. All reality is mine to mold and shape as I see fit. I am the Alpha, the Omega, and every other greek letter in between. Wrath is my left hand and lightning my right (sonic, acid, and fire too!). Ia! Ia! Pun Pun!"

But really, request your DM change gears or request a new DM. Failing either of those, quit. No game is better than bad game, why suffer your time to be wasted?

Knaight
2010-04-15, 05:27 PM
Sounds like the DM learned DMing from videogames. It's a mistake to be sure but not an unforgivable one, those of us not fortunate to be tutored in the ways of Tabletop RPGs by an experienced player most often started that way as well. I know I did. The solution to this problem is not In Game, you CANNOT break the rails of a determined DM especially if he has a buzzword like "Epic" to explain everything. If you are not happy with the way a game is run and try to ruin it from the inside then all you are doing is Trolling, bad game or no, and you are no better for doing it. Find some solution out of game or there will be no happy ending.

Agreed entirely. I personally learned to GM from 3 main sources. The occasional video game, gaming stories from someone who played D&D as a social thing in the dungeon crawl format, and the D&D 3.5 DMG advice. Admittedly, its the last of these that screwed me up the most, but my early games were terrible -- I would have walked out of them as a player. However, once I lost the influence of video games and the DMG, I became at the very least a decent GM. I could be better, I probably will get better, and I still have enough gaps in what I can do and games are still hit and miss enough that I can't call myself good. And the only reason I got this far is that my players are used to worse GMs than me, and the early ones were used to video games, and I at least played out conversations from the beginning and had them there.

randomhero00
2010-04-15, 05:51 PM
For amusing robot roleplay tips watch the Futurama episode, "Insane in the Mainframe." (or just roleplay bender)

Call everyone meat creatures or meat bags
Make jokes about your fluids
Frequent identity crisis'
Refer to space in cubic meters to the decimal place

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-15, 05:58 PM
In fact, Im pretty sure Tinydwarfman didn't read through the first post, given his talk about the DM saving the BBEG.


:smallconfused: You said "apparently wings of cover doesn't work on him" in addition to all sorts of other effects. A well-built wizard (like yours) could fairly easily lock down any epic roguish-thing with no-save effects if played by the rules. Am I missing something here? (again I'm not saying this guy's bad DMing is in any way your fault, but he might feel he needs to do stuff like this if he doesn't have a good knowledge of the rules. just a possibility)

Darkxarth
2010-04-15, 06:10 PM
This is pretty much the case. Im actually ok with a certain degree of homebrew, especially when it comes to plot-centric things...but actual homebrew means adding something that fits in the context of the existing game rules, even if it is new. I mean, I'd be ok with mr Epic dude making his reflex save on a 2+. That's tough, but not outside the realm of possibility. It's the "you cannot do anything whatsoever that will have any effect except for X" that I take issue with.

I think I'm gonna do everything suggested. Except for the "just talking" or "toning down my character". Hah. I've cast a veil precisely once(amusingly enough, that got entirely ignored by an epic character, even though he could have easily soaked the damage. It's not as if he was in any danger by following the rules). My persisted spells are split mostly evenly among the entire party every day. In fact, Im pretty sure Tinydwarfman didn't read through the first post, given his talk about the DM saving the BBEG.

On the bright side, he is moving away in a coupla months, so one way or another, it's solved then. Until then, I plan do do as follows:

1. Bring the epic level handbook with to the next game for the reference pile.

2. Amusingly highlight the railroad tracks by acting in character.

3. BEEP.

Further suggestions of hilarity are always quite welcome. Remember, it doesn't matter if they amuse the DM, just so long as they amuse me.

BEEP.

Form this, it sounds to me like you have no desire to remain friends with this person. If that is the case, why do you let him attend your games? Does everyone else feel the same? Is he someone's brother or cousin? You should either:
1. Ask him to change his DMing style or no longer serve in the rotation.
2. Ask him to leave the group entirely.

This whole "I am going to be a passive-aggressive jerk" thing is worse than what he is doing to you. At that point, I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. In fact, I would not be surprised to see a thread here about a "Rude, Disruptive Player" next time this "friend" of yours DMs, if he's the kind of person who looks for assistance online.

Kaun
2010-04-15, 06:45 PM
For amusing robot roleplay tips watch the Futurama episode, "Insane in the Mainframe." (or just roleplay bender)

Call everyone meat creatures or meat bags
Make jokes about your fluids
Frequent identity crisis'
Refer to space in cubic meters to the decimal place

Or whats that psycho assasin droid from kotor?

EagleWiz
2010-04-15, 08:08 PM
Mordenikins Disjunction and AMF are always fun. Ditto for RPing as HK-47.

shadow_archmagi
2010-04-15, 08:17 PM
Seriously though, the whole "HURR I AM GOING TO ANNOY THE DM AS REVENGE HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" is a terrible decision in all respects.

Either tell him you don't like his style and you'd like a change, or get rid of him, or something.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-15, 08:32 PM
Mordenikins Disjunction and AMF are always fun. Ditto for RPing as HK-47.

I have a strange feeling neither of those spells would do anything in his game. Also, I don't believe he has 9ths yet. (lvl 12)

EagleWiz
2010-04-15, 08:34 PM
IMO it sounds like the OP has decided that confronting the DM would be of no use or at least not worth the time and ill will it would generate. The situation will resolve itself in a couple months. Railroading the PCs into no loot, mind controll and cutscenes? Guy deserves whatever he gets.

Tavar
2010-04-15, 08:41 PM
Very few deserve whatever they get, and remember that any action you take, you also give him permission to do to you.

If you dislike the game, leave. Or talk to the DM. Better yet, talk to the players, and see if they share your concerns/feelings. Do not, however, act like a jerk. That road rarely ends up where you want it to, and most often ends up creating the very gulf between friends that you seem to want to avoid.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-15, 08:43 PM
My suggestion: Break the rails. Kill yourself. Make your new character something that has the ability to break loose of mind control if he insists you must start controlled. Something with immunity to mind effecting preferably. Start your own quest to liberate your fellow PC's from the wizard's spells. Go one level in tainted scholar and be undead for both ridiculous power and immunity.

OR

If he's your friend, he should understand when you tell him his game is not fun. just politely say that you'd rather GM or something. Make sure the other players feel this way too though.

Kaun
2010-04-15, 08:51 PM
I know something that works well when you being rail roaded through a **** story.

Play stupid

Dont ignore his obvious plot peices but just pretend to not understand them or misinterpret them over and over regardles of how obvious he makes them. Eventualy he may end up telling you your actions as well to the point where you no longer need to be involved and you can go and get a beer.

ryzouken
2010-04-16, 01:59 AM
Or you could just go get a beer in the first place and not waste time and angst playing dumb.

Determine what, if anything, in the situation is salvageable, then act accordingly, either removing yourself from a crappy situation or removing the troublesome element.

Keld Denar
2010-04-16, 02:32 AM
BEEP! That is all.

Thrawn4
2010-04-16, 10:20 AM
Grab yourself a beer. Tell him that you unfortunately don't enjoy his playstyle. Save the evening by having fun together.

Divide by Zero
2010-04-16, 10:23 AM
With enough beer, you won't care if the game isn't fun. Problem solved.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-04-16, 10:25 AM
With enough beer, you won't care if the game isn't fun. Problem solved.

Actually, with enough beer, that game would be a hilariously good time! Incomprehensible magic, random researchers attacking with high-powered magical items that are to dangerous for me to touch, illusory death, and turning into freakin' ROBOTS? Were I sloshed at the time, I'd be having a BLAST. :smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2010-04-16, 10:50 AM
Actually, with enough beer, that game would be a hilariously good time! Incomprehensible magic, random researchers attacking with high-powered magical items that are to dangerous for me to touch, illusory death, and turning into freakin' ROBOTS? Were I sloshed at the time, I'd be having a BLAST. :smallbiggrin:

Case in point: Beer makes everything better.

Thrawn183
2010-04-16, 12:02 PM
You are clearly not enjoying yourself. Calmly, clearly, and politely state that fact, and stop playing, at least temporarily.

I've had a lot of experience with saying stupid things in the heat of the moment that I can't take back. Learn from my mistakes and don't burn any bridges you don't have to. Just find something else to fill the newly free time in your schedule that you actually enjoy, if only temporarily, and try to be a good friend to the people in your group in the meantime.

Tyndmyr
2010-04-16, 02:24 PM
Oh, but I WILL be enjoying myself soon. Ever so much.

Besides, it's not really saying something I regret in the heat of the moment if I planned it out, right?

PS: Of course you should burn bridges. You should burn everything.

PPS: BEEP.

Optimystik
2010-04-16, 02:28 PM
BEER! That is all.


PPS: BEER.

Fixed for posterity.

And your DM is definitely what you described in the OP.

Kylarra
2010-04-16, 02:30 PM
Oh, but I WILL be enjoying myself soon. Ever so much.

Besides, it's not really saying something I regret in the heat of the moment if I planned it out, right?

PS: Of course you should burn bridges. You should burn everything.

PPS: BEEP.Well, tell us how it goes either way.


BEEP.