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View Full Version : Warblade Help - BF Control and Stormguard Warrior in one build? [3.5]



Partysan
2010-04-15, 01:30 PM
I will probably be joining a game in the near future for which I'm building a Warblade. I want to use the Stormguard Warrior/Robilar's Gambit combo for damage output, but I'd like to do some battlefield control too.
I do not want to use casting or manifester classes, and I don't want to use throwing either (Bloodstorm Blade).
We start at lvl 2, so there isn't much to do right now. I hate spiked chains (and the designers for making it impossible to use weapons at reach and on adjacent fields but creating that weapon) so I thought about starting out with a masterwork guisarme and armour spikes for attacking all spaces around me. (For the style and IH/DM preferred weapon I might also carry a bastard sword)
Unfortunately we may not use flaws, so I'm gonna be a bit feat starved in this. To counteract this, I might take two levels of fighter for levels 3/4 or 4/5 as to delay my second stance and gain two feats. If we were to reach lvl 20 I'd be crying for Dual Stance, but I doubt it, so there's no use in single-classing for 19 lvls I'd say.
I'll obviously be needing Combat Reflexes and Power Attack, Ironheart Aura and Stormguard Warrior, at lvl 12 Robilar's.
Now, what to do else? I need help especially in choosing feats, though I'll gladly take maneuver advice as well.
For the numbers: We get 88 ability points to flat-out distribute (which I think is a lot), so I thought of Str 18, Con 16, Dex 14, Int 18, Wis 10 and Cha 12 (can be changed around, maybe for higher dex to get more AoOs).
I have one stance and 4 maneuvers. I thought of Moment of Perfect Mind, Steel Wind and Sudden Leap, then I'm torn between Sapphire Nightmare Blade and Douse the Flames, another possibility would be getting Improved Unarmed Strike and Wolf Fang Strike, but that's another feat.
As for the stance, I'd like to use Leading the Charge, since there are two more meleers in the group, but I'm probably gonna need Punishing Stance for Ironheart Aura.
Now, what feats to take? Should I be going the trip route, or is it better just to grab Stand Still since it's less feat intensive? What about Hold the Line? Should I grab Martial Study and Stance for Thicket of Blades? Do I need charge/damage feaats like Shock Trooper? What about nice things like Elusive Target or flavorful things as Unnerving Calm, can I squeeze them in somewhere? And what is a good order to take the feats in, since I have to be useful from 2nd lvl on?

Chen
2010-04-15, 01:42 PM
I'm pretty sure Sudden leap requires another Tiger Claw maneuver. Stone Bones isn't a terrible Maneuver at 1st/2nd level when random bursts of damage still kill/drop PCs. Would be one of the first ones I trade out though. I agree with the Fighter dip at 3/4 so as to get a nice level 2 Stance instead of an extra level 1 one. Dipping Swordsage instead of fighter can also work for a bunch of utility abilities, also delaying your stance, but losing out on 2 feats. Can get you the useful Fire resistance stance or one of the Shadow hand ones which is nice though. Also free Weapon Focus and Wis to AC is a plus.

Partysan
2010-04-15, 01:50 PM
You're right about Sudden Leap... I didn't expect a first level maneuver to have prereqs... wierd.
However I'd like to avoid SS, since I want to stay more mundane... I'd actually rather dip Monk than Swordsage :smallbiggrin:
Doesn't mean I don't like the SS class, just not for that particular char.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-15, 01:55 PM
I say start as Crusader, then take swordsage to fill, then focus on AoO's while leaping to hit.

Partysan
2010-04-15, 02:00 PM
I say start as Crusader, then take swordsage to fill, then focus on AoO's while leaping to hit.

Kinda defeats the purpose of merging with Stormguard Warrior, doesn't it?

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-15, 02:03 PM
You're right about Sudden Leap... I didn't expect a first level maneuver to have prereqs... wierd.

You only need another TC maneuver when grabbing it, after you have it, it counts as its own prerequisite, so you can retrain the other maneuver at one of the levels where you get to do that.

Endarire
2010-04-15, 02:18 PM
Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood_A_Tale_of_38_Guide_to_the_ 35_Dragoon): Does one-shotting foes count as battlefield control?

Partysan
2010-04-15, 02:46 PM
Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood_A_Tale_of_38_Guide_to_the_ 35_Dragoon): Does one-shotting foes count as battlefield control?

Not really what I was looking for, but a nice link anyway.

@NEO|Phyte: Guess I'll be doing something like that.

sofawall
2010-04-15, 02:51 PM
Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood_A_Tale_of_38_Guide_to_the_ 35_Dragoon): Does one-shotting foes count as battlefield control?

If there is only 1 foe, it sure does.

BEEP

Endarire
2010-04-15, 04:00 PM
With high enough mobility and reach, you can get amidst a pack of foes, pounce and 1-shot one, then Cleave or use extra attacks to kill the rest. It works.

Partysan
2010-04-16, 07:46 AM
You know, I'd really be delighted, if anyone'd adress my main question - the selection and distribution of feats, that is...

Escheton
2010-04-16, 08:38 AM
seeing you are indeed a bit featstarved dont go tripline, and take stand still to mess with chargers
take steadfast boots(Steadfast Boots (MiC, 1400 gp) +4 bonus to avoid bull rush, trip, or overrun attacks. Any two-handed weapon you carry is treated as if readied against any creature that charges you.) to double your damage against chargers and they will never make that save. Stuck and outta actions.
Consider taking a buckler just for the shield maneuvers to up ac of nearby partymembers.
If you want the ironheart aura, im thinking you like the style of protecting those near you, so this would work nicely.
Consider taking the dastana with light armor for another enchantable armorpiece for armorenchantments,if only to keep prices low while still getting spell resist and fortification.
If you have a full cleric in the party you can even stick with +1 armor and buckler and just have him cast magic vestment or whatever.
this way you can still use greater crystals

put impaling (+1, piercing only) on those spikes for a touch attack maneuverstrike at close range 3/day
add that too spiked gauntlets for 9/day, or get "the fist" (MIC 51)for spiked gauntlet awesomeness.

now could we get a separate post stating what lvl you still need feats chosen en what you bab at those lvl is and all that

Person_Man
2010-04-16, 09:53 AM
So to summarize, you want:

Warblade
Stormguard Warrior
Battlefield Control
Robilar's Gambit
Level 2
88 flat point buy


Without:

Psionics
Magic
Bloodstorm Blade
Spiked Chain
Flaws


Correct?

Some Options:

Variant Kobold (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a): Claw/Claw/Bite for free. With the Draconic Tail feat you can get a tail attack, and then take the Prehensile Tail feat to qualify for Multiweapon Fighting.
Totemist: If you don't like being a Kobold, 2 levels of Totemist will get you 4+ natural attacks.
Binder 3: Will let you bind Dahlver-Nar (or you could just take 1 level of Binder and the Improved Binder feat). This grants you; Natural Armor bonus = 1/2 your Con bonus, Shield Self (Standard Action, one enemy within 10ft per Binder level takes 50% of your damage as long as he remains within range, Will negates), Maddening Moan (Standard Action, everyone within 30 ft must make a Will Save or Daze for 1 round, mind effecting), and some random minor immunities. This opens up several different combos, and it does so very early. The only down side is that Binder Saves are Cha dependent, so you're better off as a Crusader who just dips two levels into Warblade.
Daze effects: Though this is feat intensive and doesn't work well with natural attacks, this tends to be one of the best methods of slowing your enemy down, especially if you have a lot of attacks. Take a look at Shield Slam, Anvil of Thunder, Boomerang Daze, Ragewild Fighter, Killoren Smite, and Dire Flail Smash, and the Dazing Strike maneuver.
Stand Still: Probably the cheapest way to stop enemies from getting near you.
Concealment: If you're not using Shield Self, then you want enemies to miss as much as possible. Cloak of Displacement, levels of Incarnate, Winged Warrior feat, whatever.
Elusive Target feat: Although I hate the Dodge and Mobility pre-reqs, it does open up a nifty combo. 1) Use the Desert Tempest manuever. 2) Run around the battlefield, hitting each enemy once, or make touch attacks with Stormguard. 3) Make no effort to avoid provoking their AoO as you move through their threatened areas. 4) Every time an enemy swings at you, you get a free AoO from Rob's Gambit. 5) You give these up to build up a massive Stormguard bonus for the next round. 6) Elusive Target gives you a free Trip on every enemy that missed their AoO against you. You get a free follow up AoO if you have Improved Trip (which you can give up if you want). 7) Next round kill the boss enemy with your massive bonus from Stormguard.

Escheton
2010-04-16, 11:48 AM
Im pretty sure those bonus attack plusses are against each individual that you refrain a hit from. No building up for uber avalanche.
Though if you are correct: awesome

Draz74
2010-04-16, 12:36 PM
Im pretty sure those bonus attack plusses are against each individual that you refrain a hit from. No building up for uber avalanche.
Though if you are correct: awesome

No, you're right: the Stormguard bonuses only work against the same creatures who provoked them.

But his combo is still awesome. I can just see the whole pack of enemies breaking off the battle and running away from you at the same time, because everyone knows that they're toast to your Stormguard damage the next round if they're left as the closest foe to you.

Unfortunately, since Desert Tempest is a high-level Desert Wind maneuver, it's pretty tough for a Warblade to end up with unless he's a Master of Nine. (Wait, on second thought, I'm not sure why that's unfortunate. I love Master of Nine.)