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Geiger Counter
2010-04-15, 03:32 PM
They picked the worst possible race to be deathless worshippers. Elves tend to be slow reproducing and very long lived so it's not like they can stockpile deathless any where near as fast as other races. Also someone said they needed the undying court to fight the dragons, how so? A bunch of immunities doesn't really help with dragon slaying. Would it matter at all if I ignored the undying court entirely?

Prime32
2010-04-15, 03:35 PM
Um, I don't think they're trying to "stockpile" deathless. :smallconfused:

Besides, an Ascendant Councillor is CR 18. That's some serious power right there, and collectively they count as a god. They're also a threat to the dragons because they are much older than them, and have been scheming all that time. It scares them.

Ignore them? Well, it's not like a bunch of glowy elf-mummies have to show up in every adventure, especially since they live pretty far away from the action.

Drascin
2010-04-15, 03:39 PM
They picked the worst possible race to be deathless worshippers. Elves tend to be slow reproducing and very long lived so it's not like they can stockpile deathless any where near as fast as other races. Also someone said they needed the undying court to fight the dragons, how so? A bunch of immunities doesn't really help with dragon slaying. Would it matter at all if I ignored the undying court entirely?

You miss the point. Each deathless is a pretty high-level elf with some immunities tacked on. But while on their island and together, they are a kind of dead hivemind that fuses together to form about the only thing in the whole setting that has actual Divine Rank. It's, as you said, what keeps the dragons from just making themselves a nice elf shish-kebab.

Geiger Counter
2010-04-15, 03:40 PM
They pretty much have to stockpile them if they collectively want to be as powerful as a god. Are there any rough estimates on how many deathless elves there are and how many there would be if the undying court was say composed of humans?

druid91
2010-04-15, 03:41 PM
Elans can, I always wondered what would happen if a great-wyrm dragon and an 3000 year old Elan met.
Since most of dragons arrogance towards humanoids is because of there short life-spans and weakness, how would it react when it found out that some human is both older and stronger than it?

and deathless aren't stockpiled like undead, they are the revered heroes that get the chance to continue there career into their afterlife. sorta.

Prime32
2010-04-15, 03:53 PM
Elans can, I always wondered what would happen if a great-wyrm dragon and an 3000 year old Elan met.
Since most of dragons arrogance towards humanoids is because of there short life-spans and weakness, how would it react when it found out that some human is both older and stronger than it?Note that Eberron's elans are basically jinchuuriki - the result of a quori being sealed into a human body he can't control as punishment.

druid91
2010-04-15, 03:57 PM
yeah which is better than the standard, its secret you don't need to know, approach. anyway to avoid derail I made another thread for that.

nyarlathotep
2010-04-15, 08:36 PM
Think of the undying court like the higher ranking tomb kings from warhammer or the knight in Indian Jones and the Last Crusader, rather than normal undead. They're highly respected warriors and scholars who voluntarily became undead (deathless) to continue their duties.

Also given how long the elves have been around even if just 1% of them become deathless they'll have a sizable amount by the present.

avr
2010-04-15, 08:54 PM
The fluff includes some references to the elves only being able to support a certain number of deathless with the magic generated by their worship.

So, not all the elves become deathless - stockpiling deathless is the exact opposite of what they do, it is an honour to become deathless.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-15, 09:20 PM
They pretty much have to stockpile them if they collectively want to be as powerful as a god. Are there any rough estimates on how many deathless elves there are and how many there would be if the undying court was say composed of humans?

Most of them should have class levels. Never mind the deathless warriors they have, or the undead esc warriors and a large quantity of druids and casters ....

There are probebly only a handfull of councel members but hundreds of deathless.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-04-15, 09:53 PM
The Undying Court is one of the coolest parts of Eberron's elf culture...ignoring it would, I feel, be a tremendous loss to the elves.

They're also not a resource to be stockpiled. As stated previously, becoming a Deathless is an incredible honor, as well as a burden. They're carefully selected and chosen from the best of Elven society...kind of how Ancient Egypt mummified people. It wasn't everyone. :smallbiggrin:

ShadowFighter15
2010-04-15, 11:38 PM
I could be wrong, but I think half the reason the dragons are worried about them (fear might be an exaggeration) is because of their skill at plotting. Get to their age and you'd be a master of the Xanatos Gambit, something that can hamper dragons who'd rather work through proxies or humanoid followers.

It's not the Court's direct power they're worried about (although that'd probably be considerable, considering how long they've had to practice their skills in spell or sword - whatever their speciality), but their skill at planning.

Mind you; that's just my take on it and there might be something in the books that contradicts me.

EDIT: I do agree with Djinn though about the Court being one of the coolest parts of elven culture in Eberron.

TricksyAndFalse
2010-04-16, 07:42 AM
They picked the worst possible race to be deathless worshippers.

Yep. They picked the one you'd least suspect so that when you read the setting material, you'd know that these are not your usual elf stereotypes.

You could ignore it if you want, but unless you replace it with something else, you're left with typical fantasy elves again.

Optimystik
2010-04-16, 07:46 AM
Undying Court is a nice twist on elves; anything that gets them away from hugging trees is a boon in my book.

Personally though, I would stat them as Fey rather than Deathless. From what I know of Undying Court they aren't exactly "good," and I prefer the BoED use of Deathless.

Salt_Crow
2010-04-16, 08:38 AM
My understanding of the role of UC in Aerenal seems to differ a bit from that of the OP's. In the Eberron campaign I've always played, Deathless-dom was the greatest privilege, a status of near-godhood that could be granted upon an Aerenal elf. It would never ever be considered as a means of stockpiling super soldiers to fight the dragons. They have the millenia-old martial traditions for that (part of which branched off to become Valenar elves). And the necromantic magics too.

Although, if the OP (or anyone for that matter) believes they're just silly, then an Eberron campaign (that doesn't involve Aereni elves or that aspect of draconic lives) could run just as well without it too.

I know of a few people who don't use psionics in their Eberron campaign, for example. That removes the viability (or at least the unique flavour) of entire Sarlona, but since their campaign revolve around something else (that they consider less silly), it has no impact on their play whatsoever.