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Emerald
2010-04-15, 08:13 PM
Hello,

I've never done this before. But I am looking foward to the new ideas and rules that I may (Most likely) have missed and get the information I need to be one of the many best DM that this old game could be. As the old saying goes, "One can't be better then his master, but be equal to him." So, how does this group work?

Mystic Muse
2010-04-15, 08:18 PM
Hello,

I've never done this before. But I am looking foward to the new ideas and rules that I may (Most likely) have missed and get the information I need to be one of the many best DM that this old game could be. As the old saying goes, "One can't be better then his master, but be equal to him." So, how does this group work?

Hello. First off, I would like to direct you to the Role playing games thread instead of friendly banter. This way it's easier for other DMs/GMs/Players to find your thread.

Now as for your request, We need more information on the group. Not everything works the same for everybody. Details are necessary. I'm not sure about your question of "How does this group work"? because I'm not entirely sure what you're asking there.

welcome to the forums and have fun while you're here.

Irreverent Fool
2010-04-15, 08:25 PM
General DM tips will be useful regardless of game. But if you ask specifics about rules, you'll want to specify the edition.

If you're asking how the forums work, like most forums, it's best to spend some time 'lurking' to get a feel for discussions. That is, read through posts and once you feel comfortable enough that you know what's going on, jump into some conversations (but don't post in threads that are more than a month old or so, start a new thread if you want to continue that conversation).

obnoxious
sig

Mystic Muse
2010-04-15, 08:28 PM
okay then. Remember, if your players optimize you're allowed to Optimize too. If the players are allowed to use it so are you.

Learn to improvise if you haven't already. This is an invaluable skill as a DM. I improvised an entire session once and my players thought it was better than my prepared sessions.:smalleek:

Private-Prinny
2010-04-15, 08:30 PM
First thing's first: You need a plot. Be careful, though, because if you try to force the PCs along a predetermined route, it will be less fun for everyone. Come up with certain "landmark points." Think along the lines of "I want X to happen at early levels, Y to happen around mid levels, and bring the campaign to a close with Z." A very general idea lets you give the players some freedom while also making sure your story stays on track.

Second, make sure your party is balanced. This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0) is the tier list, and is the usual benchmark for power level. If you have 2 people who want to play a Druid and a Paladin, see if you can nudge them towards Spirit Shaman and Crusader. However, individual character optimization > tiers, so make sure you know who your powergamers are.

Lastly, have fun. I know it seems like an obvious suggestion, but keeping the air light is every bit as important to a D&D game as killing the BBEG or saving the princess. If the players aren't joking and having fun, then there's something wrong.

Good luck with your campaign! :smallsmile:

IonDragon
2010-04-15, 08:32 PM
I reread your post a couple times, so I think I'm taking your meaning correctly (if not just let me know). You may be under the incorrect assumption that this is one cohesive group. While that would be really cool, and I've seen board sites set up that way, where all users are players and/or GMs in an interconnected world, that is not the case here.

There are dozens if not hundreds of separate games going on in the PBP board most of which are not connected in any way. As the poster above me, if you'd like to 'throw your hat into the ring' as it were and run a game, that is the place to start. People will look for "The Big 16" which is a list of 16 questions that give people the information needed to build a character for your game. You should be able to find these there as well without trouble.

This particular section of the message board is mostly dedicated to informal discussion about rules and mechanics and interpretations there of: Conceptual optimization, viability of certain builds, looking for help progressing/saving a campaign, etc.

So, if you have any questions, right here is the best place to put them, but I'm affraid I don't think I can answer "How does this group work" without some more clarification.

Private-Prinny
2010-04-15, 08:45 PM
IPeople will look for "The Big 16" which is a list of 16 questions that give people the information needed to build a character for your game. You should be able to find these there as well without trouble.

And here they (probably) are, for added convenience.

The Big 16

1. What game system are you running (D&D, Call of Cthulu, Palladium, GURPS, etc.), and if applicable what edition (Original, Classic, Revised, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 10th, etc.)?

2. What 'type' or variant of game will it be (i.e. "Shadow Chasers" or "Agents of Psi" for d20 Modern)? What is the setting for the game (eg. historic period, published or homebrewed campaign setting, alternate reality, modern world, etc.)?

3. How many Players are you looking for? Will you be taking alternates, and if so, how many?

4. What's the gaming medium (OOTS, chat, e-mail etc.)?

5. What is the characters' starting status (i.e. experience level)?

6. How much gold or other starting funds will the characters begin with?

7. Are there any particular character classes, professions, orders, etc. that you want... or do not want? What are your rules on 'prestige' and/or homebrewed classes?

8. What races, subraces, species, etc. are allowed for your game? Will you allow homebrewed races or species? 'Prestige' races or species?

9. By what method should Players generate their attributes/ability scores and Hit Points?

10. Does your game use alignment? What are your restrictions, if so?

11. Do you allow multi-classing, or have any particular rules in regards to it?

12. Will you be doing all of the die rolling during the course of the game? Will die rolls be altered, or left to the honor system? If players can make die rolls, which ones do they make, how should they make the rolls, and how should they report them?

13. Are there any homebrewed or optional/variant rules that your Players should know about? If so, list and explain them, or provide relevant links to learn about these new rules.

14. Is a character background required? If so, how big? Are you looking for anything in particular (i.e. the backgrounds all ending up with the characters in the same city)?

15. Does your game involve a lot of hack & slash, puzzle solving, roleplaying, or a combination of the above?

16. Are your Players restricted to particular rulebooks and supplements, or will you be allowing access to non-standard material? What sources can Players use for their characters?

These are the only "Big 16" that I can find with Google-fu.

Emerald
2010-04-15, 08:45 PM
Okay, here is the game.

It's D&D 3.0/3.5 Ed

The plot is going to have to wait, I've discovered that many of my players are on this site a lot.

The problem:

I like to go by the rules, not because I want to. Because the players are rules lawers (You herd me!) So I try very hard to read the books and go by the rules.
However, say I come across an issuse that can't go by RAW terms. I would then go on the fly and see what happens. But thats when the other problem comes along. The players brake out their books and spend the next half hour arguing about why my ruleing can't work.
Like one time I let the durid talk to ants, they were going into an ant hill, with larg ants.

Because of this, I'm going into 4ED and trying that out and seeing if that would be a better fit, because I would be the only one with the books and I would be the only one knowing full well how to play.

Comments, Concerns, Complaints?

P.S. I mean this wedsite and post's? But I got that one taken care of, thx you.

Private-Prinny
2010-04-15, 08:48 PM
Whenever there are no rules for a certain situation, it's complete DM fiat. You call the shots, not the players. If you want to change existing rules, tell them up front, but if you have to make one up, no one else at the table has anything to stand on arguing the ruling.

Mystic Muse
2010-04-15, 08:50 PM
the players not knowing how the rules work unless you tell them is not going to be a good thing.

in 3.5, next time they start bringing out the rule books simply say "guys, this is the way I've decided to rule it. If you don't like it, then you can follow the rule when you DM but this is how it's going to work in this game." or something like that. Try to avoid being confrontational, but simply saying "this is how it works this time around." should solve most of your problems.

IonDragon
2010-04-15, 08:56 PM
As Kayuubi, but if they're GitP users, "Rule zero", and "I don't care about RAW(Rules as written), this is what we're doing." make perfect argument enders.

Endarire
2010-04-15, 09:56 PM
If you ask about party makeup, the best group is what your players want to play. Going for a traditional tank/sneaker/healer/special effects party can work.

I DMed a group that started as Wizard/Barbarian/Rogue. The Barbarian went Necromancer and I allowed him to learn cure spells. The Rogue went for Arcane Trickster and that went poorly because of the massive setup cost.

As for RAW, declare all your house rules up front. This may mean sifting through a hundred emails or a pre-game session over what's allowed and how things are interpreted. I advise reading Min/Max (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=9.0) and 339 (http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75882/136042/d20_character_optimization) as they educated me greatly on the rules.

Irreverent Fool
2010-04-15, 10:55 PM
Tell them that if they have to bust out a book to verify a rule or spend any more than five seconds arguing that they can make a note of it after the game, but in the interest of keeping the game going, you're going to make a call now. If it turns out you were wrong, you will fix it in the future, but for now the focus should be on the game.

Another suggest I submit is one that worked well for my girlfriend when she began to DM (though it was her intent at the time, not my suggestion). Play core only. If they want outside material, review it on a case-by-case basis and be willing to say, "I'm sorry, but I'm not comfortable with that in the game yet." While we lost one player over it, everyone else in the group agrees that her campaign was one of the best as we were focused on the game and not the mechanics.

As for declaring houserules up-front, that's a good idea. In a living game, you may come up with others on the fly and that's okay too as long as it's generally agreed that it's fair. If you put in a houserule that nerfs someone who was relying on something specific for their character (which you should avoid if possible), allow them to retrain the feat/class level/etc. Then, write the new rule down so you can remain consistent.

Or you could grab an old Basic set and have at it. Or Mazes & Minotaurs. Or some other simpler system. 3.5 is needlessly convoluted. You may have trouble switching hardcore 3.x players to 4e, but in general, I've seen a lot of players more willing to go 'back to the basics'.

obnoxious
sig

Endarire
2010-04-15, 11:01 PM
Careful with core-only. The less material that's allowed, the more I want to be a Wizard or Druid. Fewer sources generally mean less lookup, but many game-breakers exist in core.

The main thing about including non-core material: It's another place to look. The player and you need reliable access to the source material. However, more sources mean non-casters feel less cramped and perhaps more interested. A Warblade is far more interesting for me to play than a Fighter because of maneuvers and stances.

Again, studying the Min/Max board helps lots.

As for rules lookup, having a laptop is quite handy. www.d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm) has LOTS of material online for free, not all of it 'core.'

4E
It's a radically different system. It's a game that admits it's a game, instead of trying to be a simulation.

Everyone needs reliable access to the rules; else, the most ambitious will get their questions answered by bugging people on the boards, downloading the PDFs, buying the books, or browsing the rules at their local hobby/bookstore.

Knaight
2010-04-15, 11:12 PM
Learn to improvise if you haven't already. This is an invaluable skill as a DM. I improvised an entire session once and my players thought it was better than my prepared sessions.:smalleek:

Same here. Although it was 2 prep heavy campaigns, and a lot of completely improvised campaigns. The latter have consistently been better, and I've stopped preparing entirely, with only a few small exceptions.

Mystic Muse
2010-04-15, 11:13 PM
So, making things up as you go is better then?

Godskook
2010-04-15, 11:26 PM
I like to go by the rules, not because I want to. Because the players are rules lawers (You herd me!) So I try very hard to read the books and go by the rules.
However, say I come across an issuse that can't go by RAW terms. I would then go on the fly and see what happens. But thats when the other problem comes along. The players brake out their books and spend the next half hour arguing about why my ruleing can't work.
Like one time I let the durid talk to ants, they were going into an ant hill, with larg ants.

Here's some guidelines you can put up to help with that:

1.Rulings may be discussed for a maximum of X minutes. After which, the game will progress under the DM's current ruling. At the beginning of the next session, an appeal may be made based on new evidence for future gameplay.

2.Rulings that are overturned do not change events that have already taken place, except what's currently happening(For example: The current player's turn only)

3.There's RAW, RAI, and Rule 0. Each has their place at the gaming table, and typically, you'll go by either RAW or RAI. However, Rule 0 will be invoked as necessary to maintain an enjoyable gaming experience for the entire group.


Because of this, I'm going into 4ED and trying that out and seeing if that would be a better fit, because I would be the only one with the books and I would be the only one knowing full well how to play.

That's generally a bad idea. 4e may be a decent system in its own right, but moving out of 3.5 because of problems with your players isn't going to help in the long run. They'll just buy the new books, and you'll be back to square one. Better to treat the problem than to change patients.

Emerald
2010-04-16, 06:50 PM
Hello,

These are very good suggestions. I like the idea of not going into 4ED just yet. And the idea of having a brief talk for x minutes and moving on. That way no one is hurt. Plus giving me movement in my own story, like the Ant thing.

What about players that have a tendency to cause plaryers to argue just to hear an argument? What is a good way for dealing with this problem w/out kicking the 'argue maker', out?

IonDragon
2010-04-16, 07:04 PM
What about players that have a tendency to cause plaryers to argue just to hear an argument? What is a good way for dealing with this problem w/out kicking the 'argue maker', out?

If it's a serious issue, Rule 0. The fact of the matter is you're the DM, you're the one in charge. Don't go overboard with it, but when problems crop up you can stop them dead if you have to.

If the real issue is with only one or two players, try talking to them? Make them aware of the problem and that you feel they are becoming a disruption to the game. If they want to argue, they can come here or some other site and not waste anyone's time but their own (and those that decide to join in).

After that, get firefox. Unlike IE, it has a built in spellchecker. Without it my posts would be illegible.