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Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-04-15, 08:53 PM
My players recently got hit with a TPK, and next session is going to be a mini-adventure in a city of the dead, inspired by A Brief History of the Dead (http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/09/08/030908fi_fiction) by Kevin Brockmeier. The afterlife in my campaign is completely non-canon in terms of D&D cosmology, and this is their first experience of it.

Basically, there's going to be a huge city, with all the dead people who are still remembered by the living, in it. There's going to be a big marketplace, and one of the ways they can rez themselves is by buying Lifestuff (which is essentially a drug for dead people: short bursts of being alive again, in your old mortal body). However, I ran into a snag: what would dead people use for currency? They don't need to eat, they're ethereal and pass through each other (in this universe) so combat is impossible and weapons and armor are worthless, so gold is not going to be helpful to them. One possible source of Lifestuff is a Marut who is able to get them enough Lifestuff for a full rez at the cost of a favor later, but that's just one of them. I can't figure out what everyone else would want as currency: thoughts?

Tl;dr version: There's a non-canon city of the dead, where my players are after getting TPK'd. What sort of currency might they use?

Flickerdart
2010-04-15, 09:00 PM
Their own soul comes to mind; I can imagine devils staking out the place, offering a second chance at life in exchange for their soul when they bite it again.

Kaun
2010-04-15, 09:06 PM
Their own soul comes to mind; I can imagine devils staking out the place, offering a second chance at life in exchange for their soul when they bite it again.

Yeah souls is a major one. Also Pacts and deals of many descriptions.

A evil entity might grant them a return path to there lifes under the condition that they will perform an undisclosed task for them once they are alive again.

The Rose Dragon
2010-04-15, 09:08 PM
Boons.

On the plus side, it doesn't need conversion when trading with the Fair Folk.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-04-15, 09:09 PM
Ooh, good idea. Some demons/devils/other nasties that want souls will definitely be in there somewhere. It seems a bit heavy for the more common, everyday interactions of the average dead people though.

Any other ideas?

EDIT: Whoops, took to long writing this and got ninja'd. That was in reference to Flickerdart's soul idea.

PersonMan
2010-04-15, 09:10 PM
I have two ideas. One could be that dead sellers sell Lifestuff and living members of the business collect the payment.

Another is that Spirit Energy(or whatever) is used, basically it's XP. Or it could be magic in a crystallized form-like Lifestuff, it can give you magic, non-etherealness, etc. and enough gives you permanent magic abilities?

Fayd
2010-04-15, 09:13 PM
Favors? Memories? The Lifestuff itself?

Are there multiple levels of death? As in, each person has to spend a certain amount of time in various places in death to move on to their "deserved" afterlife? In this way, time could serve as a trade item. Those "destined" for a Hell afterlife, and that know it, would be trading as much time as they can to stay out of the fire. Those that know they're bound for heaven might not be too remiss about giving up some of their time.

If this is the case, one has to wonder about the truly ancient dead spirits and what they are like.

Dunno, just random musings after a long and tiring day. Any of this make sense at all?

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-04-15, 09:18 PM
These are all great ideas, though again, most of them seem like pretty big chunks of importance. Favors/deals/boons make sense, but the average dead guy wouldn't have much use for them.

I am very intrigued by Fayd's ideas, though. Memories seem like they'd be a good minor currency, as this city'll be cut off from the outside world, and only new dead people bring news of the outside world. I could totally see people offering some Lifestuff or whatever for a bit of news about their family or friends.

Time is a brilliant idea. I'm definitely going to think about incorporating that somehow.

druid91
2010-04-15, 09:19 PM
Reminds me of Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean.

Hornstien
2010-04-15, 09:25 PM
Yeah I gotta say that favors would be the most likely thing to deal in. The PC's probably have the ability to accomplish more than some of the dead with the lifestuff that you are dealing out. The dead in turn get them to make promises of favors of things the spirits themselves couldn't accomplish even alive.

Fayd
2010-04-15, 09:26 PM
Reminds me of Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean.

Where I got the idea, actually. That and smashing it together with Garth Nix's Abhorsen afterlife system, and turning it into a city instead of a River.

Trekkin
2010-04-15, 09:31 PM
Currency in a postscarcity (post here taking on a different meaning) civilization? I am reminded of the Uglies series, and so I offer not favors, but favor: if there's a central authority, it doles out Lifestuff based on what its individual citizens have done for it, and/or there is a democratic system in place to decide who gets it. In short, you get a massive load of plots and intrigue to game the system...and a VERY easy way to get the townsfolk riled.

Re: the democratic idea: "If reanimated, I promise to..."

Cealocanth
2010-04-15, 09:32 PM
The currency of the dead are ghost gold pieces called soul cells. They look like ethereal gold pieces to any mortal and cannot be touched or picked up, but to every person who is dead they look like different things depending on who they were and how they died.

A dead fisherman would see them as fish, more valuble fish to the morevaluble coin. A pirate that died at sea would be trading bounties of gold that he stole during his life. They look like they do when their in a person's posession, so they change how they look when traded, ie; The pirate trades his ill gotten gold to the fisherman in which they instantly change into fish.

They always take the form of something small and easily useable as currency ie; a blacksmith would not be carrying anvils around. No soul can be wealthy, for they always want more, and these things are conjured by the soul themselves. By trading massive amounts of soul cells, it diminishes the soul, making the form weaker, they are litterally trading part of themselves away.

[Go ahead and come up with a better name for them if you like. [ When brought out of the afterlife, they dissapear back into one's body, as your soul does.] THe true currency of the dead are invisible to the naked eye OOOOOOO.

Swordgleam
2010-04-15, 09:32 PM
The memories idea is cool. But it also seems kind of intense for casual transactions, especially if you lose the memory once it's shared (a la the Giver). What about knowledge?

Think about it. The dead from centuries. Ancient dead might want news of the present and the latest inventions and discoveries, while newer arrivals will be aching to know the secrets of the past, and the truth behind the mysteries.

This would also be a great way to give your players some plot hooks for later.

Fayd
2010-04-15, 09:33 PM
A question I have:

What is the Lifestuff made from? My suggestion is the excess life from people killed before their time. This gives the PCs some starting resources and a good introduction to the system. Plus... the conversion factor probably isn't 1:1, and you have to wonder if trading your life away is a good idea. . .

Sydonai
2010-04-15, 09:34 PM
I can see the Yugoloths offering a rez in exchange for acting like their private mercenary.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-04-15, 09:52 PM
The memories idea is cool. But it also seems kind of intense for casual transactions, especially if you lose the memory once it's shared (a la the Giver). What about knowledge?

This is really what I intended by memories: information, knowledge, stories, etc. I didn't really mean actually trading away the things you remember. Good idea on dropping future plot hooks though.


What is the Lifestuff made from? My suggestion is the excess life from people killed before their time. This gives the PCs some starting resources and a good introduction to the system. Plus... the conversion factor probably isn't 1:1, and you have to wonder if trading your life away is a good idea. . .

Hmm... I'm not actually sure what it is. (Not that the players need to know that... :smallbiggrin:) I'm pretty sure it's some sort of force that just exists in the ether, and it's possible to gather it, but no one knows what it is? Your idea is good, but I suspect that just giving the players the Lifestuff from what should have been the rest of their life would lead to them immediately using it to get back to the land of the living, which I think will be their ultimate goal here. Maybe when they arrive in this afterlife, the remainder of their Lifestuff evaporates off into the ether, and that's how it gets there?

WildPyre
2010-04-15, 09:53 PM
Hmm I might go with something like Davey Jones' crew in Pirates of the carabian. They wagered with time. After all when you're dead and gone you only have so much.

Time
Memories
Essence (soul)

Depends on what you're able to and willing to trade away.

tsuuga
2010-04-15, 10:01 PM
Favors owed by the living. They're valuable because the lifestuff dealers have figured out how to cash them in for an equivalent quantity of the debtor's life, creating more lifestuff. Leading some of the more desperate spirits into a spiral of living like a martyr for a day so they can live for another day down the line...

WeeFreeMen
2010-04-15, 10:15 PM
Currency doesn't have to take one form, and as stated above you could incorporate several diffrent forms of it.
From Soul Cells to Favors. Or in currency terms. Coin and paper. Much like we have today, diffrent objects are worth diffrent amounts.

While buying something minor could be bought with Soul Cells, such as one or two doses of Lifestuff. The upper level demons would demand the currency of paper, or in this case. Contracts.

I think you shouldn't have ONE set currency, perhaps the barter system. Knowledge is worth more person to person depending on whos asking and why.
Coin might be worthless to someone who never leaves home, however, a favor is always worth something.
Ultimately, for a Full Rez I would charge them something akin to a portion of their soul. For instance, a upper level devil/demon asks for 1/5th their soul. Now this doesn't seem like much, but collecting 1/5 a soul per person from a party of 5. He can effectively make another creature, perhaps just to kill them all over again. [plot hook?]. Or at least attempt. and you can take it from there.

Just my disorganized thoughts. ;]

Raging Gene Ray
2010-04-15, 10:24 PM
I can't figure out what everyone else would want as currency: thoughts?

I think you just answered your own question there.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-04-15, 10:38 PM
I think you just answered your own question there.

...
...
...
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/images/smilies/jawdrop.gif

You are a genius.

I actually don't think that beyond some form of information, thoughts will really be used, but I still bow to your awesomeness.

Doodleface
2010-04-15, 10:40 PM
My DM once told me of his homebrew campaign (that he plays with another group)

They were in Heaven, and needed to gain passage on a ship to get to where they were going. (They couldn't fly, for whatever reasons.)

So the ship captain demanded payment, and wouldn't accept there gold ("why would they care about gold in heaven?" - my DM). So each PC had to give up something very important to them. The bard gave up his place in history, as in he would not be remembered in any of the stories/legends/tales told about there quest (and they were basically saving the world from an evil god breaking the material plane and using it to build armies to conquer all the other planes..)

I think it was pretty cool. I can't remember what everyone else gave up. But it was a great role-playing segment, lots of fluff to work with too.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-04-15, 10:44 PM
Ooh, that's a great idea. I've been looking to get some good RP into this, that'll definitely be included.

EDIT: So basically, we have:

Thoughts/Info/Memories
Souls/Soul Cells
Favors/Boons/Deals
Important Stuff

vp21ct
2010-04-15, 10:54 PM
Ooh, that's a great idea. I've been looking to get some good RP into this, that'll definitely be included.

EDIT: So basically, we have:

Thoughts/Info/Memories



It strikes me that this would basically take the form of XP. And as anyone knows, that is a VERY valuable substance to players.

Also, it strikes me as being somewhat Ironic. Their biggest reward or 'payment' up until this point has allways been XP.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-15, 11:04 PM
They're dead. They can't taste, or touch, or smell; they can only see and think, and they can hear the thin, wispy voices carried along on the wind, and everything else in the place is grey and gloomy and lifeless.

It's a fugue plane, of sorts.

If you've been stuck in a sense-less (literally) state of flavorless existence, what would you covet more than anything else?

Sensations. Emotions. The ability to feel again.

Small burnished coins of varying scarcity; the only solid-seeming substance in the whole of the afterlife. When consumed, they hit you with a small piece of emotion; a taste; a touch; a sweet melody as you haven't heard for perhaps millennia. Some are more potent, and hit you with very strong sensations; your first kiss, your lost virginity, the heady warmth of a fine rage.

And who brings these experiences with them? The newly-dead, whose memories are still fresh and alive. Of course, the longer the newly-dead are dead, the more sensations they lose, and the hollower their existence becomes. As such, the older a soul, the more valuable the sensations are.

Someone who has lived a full life and experienced more (ie, more levels) would have more sensations to share, and are thus far richer. The more they spend, however, the weaker they become, as the memories of those lives begin to fade away.

Loc
2010-04-15, 11:04 PM
Maybe the Lifestuff dealers give/force-the-players-into-using-for-the-service a special weapon/item/spell that absorbs the "living" Lifestuff from sentient creatures in the physical realm? A soul-sucking greatsword, a set of leather gloves with screaming faces on it, a cracked and chipped ioun stone style deal that drags the essence of the dead into it. To be extra cruel, restrict it to non-evil/non-chaotics.

herrhauptmann
2010-04-15, 11:27 PM
It's been stated so many times, but I'm of the opinion that 'memories' is a really good one.
Memory of your wedding night.
Memory of the first time you were able to cast an arcane spell, or when you realized that you had been called to God
Holding your son for the first time.
Even tragic memories could be barter. I don't imagine the undead have much in the way emotions these days, so even the bitter could be valuable.
Age 5, watching your big brother drown in a river after he jumped in to save you.
The terror of fleeing a battlefield after rout, knowing you were to be murdered if caught.

As you trade your memories, (for goods, services, other memories), you slowly become more and more emotionally dead, a listless spectre. Once you've traded away enough of your original memories, you die the final death, and something happens to your soul. Becomes one with the city, or is sucked into a vortex and dispersed, never to recoalesce.

vp21ct
2010-04-15, 11:28 PM
The problem is, what are the player's memories.

A smart RPer will have nearly a thousand Memories to trade.

The natural answer, of course, is to have memories be represented by XP.

Fiat Lux
2010-04-15, 11:35 PM
I just wanted to say that I absolutely loved A Brief History of the Dead -- beautifully written and a strikingly original adaptation of an old idea -- and am utterly flattened that the idea of using its primary precept for the D&D afterlife had never occurred to me.

Kudos to you, sir.

vp21ct
2010-04-15, 11:37 PM
*snickers*

A thought just occured to me.

Depending on what the currencie is, Death is either going to be rather expensive, or rather cheap (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathIsCheap).

Set
2010-04-16, 12:18 AM
Perhaps animals do have souls, of a sort, in this setting. Primitive spiritual essence that flows from their bodies when they die, and doesn't so much 'go to heaven' (or hell) as it just rejoins with the universe, and is the well of power from which new animals (and even plants) gain their vital essence.

But the souls of the intelligent dead have figured out a way to cast great nets into the streams of energy, and bring back small fragments of this spiritual energy, which they can compress into small crystalline lumps, warm and soft, like amber. Holding one tight, one can feel the simple animal sensations of the creature it came from. Some are worth more than others, as many sophisticates take pleasure in the raw sensations of the hunt and the kill, or the heat of mating, while the calm stoic sense of just being that comes from a great tree is relished by more aesthetic souls, who meditate while clutching these spirit-stones, drawing upon the serenity and sense of inner peace of a mighty oak, while seeking their own place in the beyond.

Some quibble that drawing upon these spiritual energies somehow diminishes the living world below, as less spiritual energy is available to become the souls and spirits of newly born mortal creatures, and that these voids in souls and spirits is the cause of possessed births, corrupted savage bloodthirsty animals and tainted areas of forest, but the economy of the afterlife would collapse without it, and surely they are just exaggerating...

Zaq
2010-04-16, 01:09 AM
It's been stated so many times, but I'm of the opinion that 'memories' is a really good one.
Memory of your wedding night.
Memory of the first time you were able to cast an arcane spell, or when you realized that you had been called to God
Holding your son for the first time.
Even tragic memories could be barter. I don't imagine the undead have much in the way emotions these days, so even the bitter could be valuable.
Age 5, watching your big brother drown in a river after he jumped in to save you.
The terror of fleeing a battlefield after rout, knowing you were to be murdered if caught.

As you trade your memories, (for goods, services, other memories), you slowly become more and more emotionally dead, a listless spectre. Once you've traded away enough of your original memories, you die the final death, and something happens to your soul. Becomes one with the city, or is sucked into a vortex and dispersed, never to recoalesce.

While I like this idea, it runs into a snag: basically, in a world in which you don't NEED anything (at least not the way we do), why would you ever barter away this most precious of substances, especially since it's literally the only thing tying you to existence? What could make trading not only your memories (which we've established as valuable and desirable... you want to feel the memories as much as everyone else does, after all) but your very existence worthwhile enough for an entire economy to coalesce? I can see the rare case where a restless ghost trades them in exchange for a favor putting his or her material cares to rest, but I can't see this happening just as an everyday thing... the only way I can see it working is if the ghosts don't know that trading away their memories brings them closer to oblivion, but that brings up an entirely new set of problems.

In short, I really like the idea, but you have to come up with something compelling enough for ghosts to want to trade away this unbelievably valuable resource or it falls apart very fast.

Thrawn4
2010-04-16, 10:07 AM
In short, I really like the idea, but you have to come up with something compelling enough for ghosts to want to trade away this unbelievably valuable resource or it falls apart very fast.

It's not necessary that everyone partakes in bartering. Maybe there are just some guys who crave for something, e. g. information on their wife or their dead, or just an experience they never made. Just something that lets them spent afterlife in peace. And those who can meet this needs might willingly exchange it for another pleasant memory (like strawberry cake) or the chance to get rid of unpleasant memories ("okay, i will give you the information, but you also have to take my memories of war crimes").

herrhauptmann
2010-04-16, 05:19 PM
In short, I really like the idea, but you have to come up with something compelling enough for ghosts to want to trade away this unbelievably valuable resource or it falls apart very fast.

Glad you like it, but why would they do it? I dunno. Perhaps they're trying to gain boons which will allow them to come to life again, but it's so difficult, that by the time you managed to earn it, there's really nothing left of yourself.
It could be the only method which a dead wizard can learn a new spell is to trade his memories, for someone elses memory of learning that spell.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-16, 06:13 PM
Glad you like it, but why would they do it? I dunno. Perhaps they're trying to gain boons which will allow them to come to life again, but it's so difficult, that by the time you managed to earn it, there's really nothing left of yourself.
It could be the only method which a dead wizard can learn a new spell is to trade his memories, for someone elses memory of learning that spell.It'd fit if they weren't memories, but memories of sensations.

You still remember your life, but those memories become dull and flavorless. If the 'coins' were tangible emotions and physical sensations (and consumables), however...

Selrahc
2010-04-16, 06:27 PM
To me it seems like "Lifestuff" would itself make a good currency. A relatively common substance with inherent value, which causes minor effects if used in small doses and large effects if used in large ones could easily become the basis for organized trade.

There is always the barter system as well. Lacking basic needs removes a lot of the impetus for developing beyond the barter system as transactions should be much less common. Pay someone by doing them a favour.

Heliomance
2010-04-16, 06:53 PM
If all else fails, and one of the party is up for it, let them do a Heroic Sacrifice. They let go of the ties holding their soul together, and dissolve entirely into Lifestuff. This gets enough for the rest of the party to be ressed, but that character's soul is destroyed and he can never be brought back to life by any means.

Knaight
2010-04-16, 10:02 PM
How about diamonds? Get enough diamonds, and you can buy your way out of the place. Of course, that is just formalities, what is more interesting is the goods people would buy. Storytelling would be huge, seeing all the eras mixing, as would other information. Info would be the main good really, and barter would also show up, but also travel from one place to another, to access other information, or get back up to the world. That and promises would be bought, in the event of resurrection of someone. Mostly stuff like "Tell my grandson this" or "make sure the information I found gets out to the world" etc.

Amiel
2010-04-17, 09:16 AM
I like the memories for currency idea; have the inhabitants of the city carry small wands, these are used to catch and extract memories from the self in exchange for goods and services; to catch one's memories, point the tip of the wand to your head and make an exaggerated swirling motion.

You could also have small shrines dotted around the city; these are portals from the mortal world, that dispense paper money and paper whatever (luxury items, food - mostly for the texture and nostalgia rather than sustenance, or what-have-you) as the relatives of the inhabitants (of the city) ritually burn their offerings and wish their friends and family in the afterlife a happy, continued existence.

Some unconventional payment ideas would be; a smile, tears, quintessence (the tears of time), an action, a story told, a love denied, a poem composed.