[Pathfinder] How do people handle finding enemy spellbooks?

[harpy]

So the party kills off an enemy wizard and finds his spell book. The PC wizard's eyes sparkle...

Now, from how the rules read, while it might take a bit of time, it sounds as if the entire contents of the enemy wizard's spellbook could just be copied into the PC wizard's spellbook. Sure rolls need to be made, perhaps the wizard needs to wait another level to get more spellcraft ranks, etc. But the end result is that it sounds as if the PC wizard can basically get a bunch of spells for free and then sell the enemy wizard's spellbook for half price.

How do people deal with this little nuance of party distribution of wealth and power?

[QuantumSteve]

Spells cost gp to write into your spellbook just like 3.5. It's a bit cheaper in Pathfinder, though, only level squared times ten, but that affects the sell price as well.

[Warpwolf16]

I make it so its difficult. such as making the book in a different language so the wizard would not know it...fun time with a demonologist spell book:smallbiggrin:..or if in a tower the spell book might burst into flames with a delayed explosive rune.

depends, and yes as stated before the cost to scribe it and copy it.

[9mm]

So the party kills off an enemy wizard and finds his spell book. The PC wizard's eyes sparkle...

Now, from how the rules read, while it might take a bit of time, it sounds as if the entire contents of the enemy wizard's spellbook could just be copied into the PC wizard's spellbook. Sure rolls need to be made, perhaps the wizard needs to wait another level to get more spellcraft ranks, etc. But the end result is that it sounds as if the PC wizard can basically get a bunch of spells for free and then sell the enemy wizard's spellbook for half price.

How do people deal with this little nuance of party distribution of wealth and power?

price? what price? wizards can have multiple spell books... in fact most would just leaf through it for a general idea whats in it; and then keep the darn thing for their own use.

[Townopolis]

I make the spellbook an actual piece of loot with value based on the number and levels of the spells it contains that the PCs are likely to copy out of it.

Just like the evil fighter's greatsword is a piece of loot that the party's tank can pick up for "free" after they kill him.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

When a wizard wants a new spell but doesn’t have an enemy spellbook with that particular spell available, what does that wizard do? That wizard buys a scroll of the spell and copies the spell from that.

Look at the spellbook as a collection of scrolls. Each spell that the party wizard doesn’t already possess is much like a scroll of the spell, except that it cannot be cast from the spellbook. But if we assume the wizard would copy new spells in preference to expending the scroll normally, then we see it has the same value.

A spell that the wizard already possesses, of course has no value or anyone else in the party. Such a spell’s only value is in contributing to the spellbook’s secondary-market value, which I address below. As such those should probably not carry any weight in determining the spellbook’s value in adding to the party wizard’s own spells.

If the wizard gets to keep the proceeds from selling the spellbook, then the market value of the spellbook should be added to the spellbook’s value as a share of treasure. Alternatively, once the wizard is done with the book, the party can sell it and split the profits as part of the shares.

A charitable party may also consider taking the cost of copying each new spell into account when determining the spellbook’s value.

For example, a wizard captures a spellbook with ten 1st-level spells, six 2nd-level spells, and two third-level spells. The wizard already has four of the 1st-level spells, three of the 2nd-level spells, and one of the 3rd-level spells. As such, the value of this spellbook for the spells the wizard can get is the same as six 1st-level scrolls, three 2nd-level scrolls, and one 3rd-level scroll, or 975 gp. This would be the wizard’s share of treasure based on the value of the spells.

According to the Pathfinder SRD, the book can be sold for 1210 gp. If the wizard gets to keep the entirety of the spellbook’s proceeds, that 1210 gp should also count against the wizard’s share. If not, then just whatever the wizard gets to keep from the sale counts.

Finally, the cost of inscribing the spells for the wizard is 270 gp. A charitable party may take that into account when deciding on value, and give the wizard that amount as credit.

In short, depending on what the party decides is fair, the above spellbook should count as somewhere between 705 gp to 2185 gp value for the purpose of finding its value as a share of the treasure.

[Doc Roc]

I use a lot of liches, or other casters that just don't stay dead, and I'm famous for trapped or cursed spellbooks. I think we've even narrowly avoided a Trap The Soul book once.

[Person_Man]

Before the campaign starts, I ask anyone playing a Wizard if they care about the spellbook "minigame."

If they do, then I handle it mostly by RAW - they have to pay to buy spell books, pay to buy spells (or find them from magic using enemies they defeat), and pay to scribe them into their books.

If they do not, then they take the Eschew Materials feat. Then whenever they want to add a spell to their list beyond those gained from levels, they just buy it (typically the cost of a scroll for a spell of that level). The spell is automatically added to their known spell list. They don't need a spell book to memorize spells, and they don't need non-costly material components. If a spell does have an expensive material component, they can just sacrifice gold pieces to cast it. (It's assumed they bought what they needed ahead of time - though if they're being held in a prison separated from their possessions, they need to get back their stuff before they can cast expensive spells). But "free" spell books and scrolls from encounters are very rare, and sharing spell lists between players and/or NPCs is not allowed.

Even though the first option usually leads to more spells at a lower gp cost (finding a single BBEG spellbook could add dozens of spells), all but one of my players have chosen the second option. I play D&D because it's fun, not because I have a fetish for bookkeeping.

[Zovc]

I thought this was going to be more along the lines of, "I found an enemy wizard's spell book, how can I sabotage him?"

I, personally would draw phallic images all over his texts, then return the book.

"GOTCHA!"

[Pink]

If you think the spellbook itself is too valuable to give, there are a lot of ways to avoid handing it over. Assuming this isn't a wizard at home or on a long term journey, would he even have a spellbook with him? A necromancer visiting the local graveyard to raise some new troops probably left his book in his heavily undead gaurded tomb, which makes it a seperate quest in itself.

Alternatively, what wizard doesn't protect their own spell books, heavily locked, illusions to make it look like something else, and trapped with things like fire trap or explosive runes that can destroy the spellbook if not opened by it's owner.

Also as another alternative, why would it be assumed a wizard has only one spellbook? It's easily possible to seperate by school, level, even situation (this is my battle spellbook, this is my investigation spellbook). Maybe he's only carrying his evocation and divination spellbooks today, because he was searching for someone specific to blast them to bits. Nothing says you have to give a pc wizard access to every single spell the enemy knew.

[Grommen]

Most likely their will be a lot of overlap in the two books anyhow, so why hassle your party wizard over a couple spells. If your being that detailed with the loot and campaign then just assign is a value as if it were a collection of scrolls or something like that.

Personally, I've never really worried about giving the PC's more spells. Spells are just tools after all. The ones they really want they buy or get when they level up. I have not seen where it wrecks balance in a game.

The other nasty trick you can pull is pretty simple. Don't leave the spell book on the wizard when he attacks the party. Granted this is a bit harder to do if they are in his home. That is easily solved by starting fires! Fights are messy and candles fall over, fireballs get cast...Ya know. stuff happens. Lastly, don't mention it when they loot the body. They are looking for shinny, not necessarily books. Less the party wizard reminds you.

[arguskos]

My typical thing is that NPC mages have a handful of spellbooks. They have their Grimoire, a massive book that contains every spell they know, and all their custom material, and they have a library of arcanabula, smaller traveling spellbooks with just enough spells to get them through the day. A level 8 wizard may carry 2-3 arcanabula on hand at any given time, each one with 5-6 spells in it. One might be his utility book, another his battle book, the third his divination book. At home, he likely has another 5-6 just laying around, each with a few spells and lots of arcane notes, formula suggestions, plans for the mage's day, etc.

Course, this is just the typical "lives at home, takes day trips to gather materials" sorta mage. A more reckless or travel-prone mage will have an entirely different set up.

[QuantumSteve]

I make the spellbook an actual piece of loot with value based on the number and levels of the spells it contains that the PCs are likely to copy out of it.

Just like the evil fighter's greatsword is a piece of loot that the party's tank can pick up for "free" after they kill him.

A Spellbok is treasure. It has a listed value and should naturally be accounted for when distributing loot. That's just common sense.


When a wizard wants a new spell but doesn’t have an enemy spellbook with that particular spell available, what does that wizard do? That wizard buys a scroll of the spell and copies the spell from that.

Actually, he justs pays another wizard the listed price to copy it from his spellbook. (Basically the same thing, but cheaper than scrolls)


price? what price? wizards can have multiple spell books... in fact most would just leaf through it for a general idea whats in it; and then keep the darn thing for their own use.

A Wizard can only memorize spells from a "borrowed" spellbook if they are in one he has written himself.

[Cogidubnus]

I don't think it's RAW, but one imagines that if a wizard were to capture an enemy spell book, decipher it, and then learn the contents (Spellcraft DC as per copying the spell, but half the time and no cost?) then he could use it. Otherwise, what makes it so different from a bought spellbook? It may have been written in by someone else, but it's still essentially a book, if you learn the formulae.

[kringle13]

core rules say you can prepare a spell from a borrowed spellbook with a spellcraft dc 15+spell lvl. the wizard in our campaign keeps all found spellbooks however this has backfired DM dropped a cursed spellbook with all spells cast from it had a even chance to work, fizzle, or backfire.

[Hawriel]

I make the spellbook an actual piece of loot with value based on the number and levels of the spells it contains that the PCs are likely to copy out of it.

Just like the evil fighter's greatsword is a piece of loot that the party's tank can pick up for "free" after they kill him.

This is great.


When ever I find a spell book I always handle with care. You never know what kind of wards the thing has. Considering the guy you just killed was some kind of evil bastard, the spell book might be almost as evil as the book for vile darkness.

My characters would eather studdy it, sell/barter it, or both. My last character was a fighter/sorc/edrich knight. He would studdy spell books to learn more about his enemy, (and the plot), then turn them over to the Pathfinders, or his employer.

[Gnaeus]

core rules say you can prepare a spell from a borrowed spellbook with a spellcraft dc 15+spell lvl. the wizard in our campaign keeps all found spellbooks however this has backfired DM dropped a cursed spellbook with all spells cast from it had a even chance to work, fizzle, or backfire.

There is a rule in 3.5 about attuning yourself to a captured spellbook. I want to say that it has a DC of 20 or 25+ highest level spell, and takes many days or a few weeks. I don't remember which book I found it in, but I remember showing it to my DM in our last game.

[Psyren]

I play D&D because it's fun, not because I have a fetish for bookkeeping.

Which is a bit ironic, since you seem to be quite talented at bookkeeping from all the lists you make :smalltongue:

But I do like your options for wizard players.

As for me, I sell the damn thing; why would a psion keep a book full of gibberish and dance moves? :smallwink:

[Grommen]

Poession is 9/10th of the law.

So if I capture an enemy spellbook and said enemy will no longer be using it. I guess that makes it my spellbook, no? :smallbiggrin:

This is one of the major limiting factors in our local game for wizards. We don't assume that your local spell caster automatically has every broken, messed up, or powerful spell in the game. And when you consider duplicates and spells that either your character would never cast or are from opposed school making them less desirable to cast. A rivals spellbook might contain a few new, useful spells. That is assuming they find it. A lot of times we don't.

In my last campaign we found a few spell books, but they were evil drow spellbooks. A lot of their spells did not compute with my mage character. She was a transmuter, and the drow favor necromancy and evocations. As a result I ended up buying several spells from the elven nation who funded the operation to save Golarin from it's impending DOOM.

BTW it was with Hawriel's character (the dude from a post up above). Even though his character was a fighter / sorc and mine was a wizard, we still got together and talked shop in game. He "invented" a few new spells, and I would write them down and use them as well. We even considered that my wizard tought him a few spells, or he got the idea from one of the spellbooks we had on hand.

[Coidzor]

How do people deal with this little nuance of party distribution of wealth and power?

It's treasure, so it counts against the rest of the loot that the party would be getting, is one of the more usual interpretations I've run into.

There's going to be a fair bit of redundancy, after all, so it's likely to, at most be the equivalent of giving the wizard a few scrolls in terms of increasing his spells known (though it does increase in actual value to the party the more spellbook-keeping individuals there are, but then, so does the redundancy of each new captured spellbook).

They can either decide to master it and keep it as a backup spellbook or they can sell it for half-price and depending upon how the party works, either keep the gold from the sale of it or split the gold with the rest of the party.


There is a rule in 3.5 about attuning yourself to a captured spellbook. I want to say that it has a DC of 20 or 25+ highest level spell, and takes many days or a few weeks. I don't remember which book I found it in, but I remember showing it to my DM in our last game.

Complete Arcane and it's just after the section detailing new spellbook materials available as options for the cover and for the pages themselves.


Lastly, don't mention it when they loot the body. They are looking for shinny, not necessarily books. Less the party wizard reminds you.

Getting caught in that dishonesty will just cause the player to constantly ask you about it and annoy you to no end. So I'm not really seeing much benefit there.