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View Full Version : [3.5]Getting 9th level arcane, divine, and shadowcasting?



TaintedLight
2010-04-16, 05:03 PM
When is the soonest it can be done? Before 30 is preferrable, but the best I've managed is something like 17/17/11.

The Rose Dragon
2010-04-16, 05:20 PM
Well, with Ur-Priest, you can go something like Wizard 3 / Shadowcaster 7 / Ur-Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge 7 / Noctumancer 10, which gets you all three at 9th level without obvious cheese at level 29. I'm sure it can be brought even lower with optimization.

Eldan
2010-04-16, 05:21 PM
The obvious cheese in the above would involve getting the apprentice feat to get by with only one level of wizard. Someone else can probably get it lower.

The Rose Dragon
2010-04-16, 05:23 PM
The obvious cheese in the above would involve getting the apprentice feat to get by with only one level of wizard. Someone else can probably get it lower.

I don't think that particular use of Precocious Apprentice is legal, so I didn't include it.

TaintedLight
2010-04-16, 05:31 PM
Well, with Ur-Priest, you can go something like Wizard 3 / Shadowcaster 7 / Ur-Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge 7 / Noctumancer 10, which gets you all three at 9th level without obvious cheese at level 29. I'm sure it can be brought even lower with optimization.

Hmm, I suppose that would work with Apostle of Peace then, too? Character should be good if possible.

The Rose Dragon
2010-04-16, 05:41 PM
Hmm, I suppose that would work with Apostle of Peace then, too? Character should be good if possible.

Well, not really. I mean, it can work, but you need Sorcerer 4 instead of Wizard 3, which pushes it to level 30. Apostle of Peace and Wizard don't mesh well, due to the need for a spellbook conflicting with the Vow of Poverty.

Jack_Simth
2010-04-16, 05:53 PM
When is the soonest it can be done? Before 30 is preferrable, but the best I've managed is something like 17/17/11.

Let's see...

The biggest problem is that we don't have a Divine version of the Nocturmancer.

If we could do Savage Bard-4/Shadowcaster-3/Ur-Priest-2/Divine Nocturmancer-7/Sublime Chord-1/Nocturmancer-8

We would be there at 25th (get 3rd level Arcane Spells with Heighten Spell + Versatile Spellcaster; you'll also want Able Learner because this build is skill-heavy).

Hmm, I suppose that would work with Apostle of Peace then, too? Character should be good if possible.
It can - switch out for Sorcerer, rather than Wizard, and add either Precosious Apprentice or Heighten Spell + Versatile Spellcaster. Then you can get by with only one level of an actual arcane spellcasting class.

Godskook
2010-04-16, 06:07 PM
Well, with Ur-Priest, you can go something like Wizard 3 / Shadowcaster 7 / Ur-Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge 7 / Noctumancer 10, which gets you all three at 9th level without obvious cheese at level 29. I'm sure it can be brought even lower with optimization.

Ur-Priest is cheesy, no matter how you slice it. Maybe ok in some games, but its L9 casting in 10 effective levels of spell progression. Its also not needed to get L30 trip-9s.

Try:

Wiz 3/Druid 3/Shadowcaster 3/Arcane Hierophant 7/Noctumancer 7/Mystic Theurge 7

That gets L9 arcane, divine(nature), and shadow. On top of that, it also has all the goodies involved with being a Arcane Hierophant(An Familiar Companion!), which may or may not include wildshaping as a 10th level druid, depending on how your DM is feeling. Also worth noting that, imho, that the Druid + Wizard list is a better mash-up than Cleric+Wizard in terms of added versatility. A lot of the good cleric spells are also domain spells, so getting them via Arcane Disciple is easier than it is to get Druid spells outside of actual Druid casting(or Archivist, but whatever).

(Note: Mystic Theurge is used to advance Shadowcasting+Divine, ensuring that we round out the progressions.)

Eldonauran
2010-04-16, 06:13 PM
Maybe throw some rainbow servant in? Won't have as many spells per day, but you'll get the cleric spell list added to your wizard spell list. Does that count or do you have to have 3 seperate casting pools?

Yorrin
2010-04-16, 09:53 PM
Beholder Mage 2/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8, add shadowcaster levels at the beggining/end as needed.

EDIT: Oh, and don't forget the Cheddar Golem template.

Eldariel
2010-04-16, 10:14 PM
Beholder Mage 2/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8, add shadowcaster levels at the beggining/end as needed.

EDIT: Oh, and don't forget the Cheddar Golem template.

With like...Shadowcaster 5/Ur-Priest 2/Divine+Shadow PrC 7/Sublime Chord 1/Noctumancer 8, you'd be done in 23 levels; pity you have to eat up those useless Shadowcaster-levels in the beginning, and that Divine+Shadow PrC doesn't exist. You qualify for Sublime Chord via. e.g. True Mind Switch or some such into e.g. Lillend, or Alternate Source Spell + whatever.

And if you can't use a Divine+Shadow PrC, nor tricks to meet prerequisites, you need Bard 1/Shadowcaster 9/Ur-Priest 9/Sublime Chord 1/Noctumancer 8 (and yes, even then you're tricking the Sublime Chord 3rd level arcane prereq, but that's elementary). Yes, that's level 28, but meh.

arguskos
2010-04-16, 10:36 PM
With like...Shadowcaster 5/Ur-Priest 2/Divine+Shadow PrC 7/Sublime Chord 1/Noctumancer 8, you'd be done in 23 levels; pity you have to eat up those useless Shadowcaster-levels in the beginning, and that Divine+Shadow PrC doesn't exist. You qualify for Sublime Chord via. e.g. True Mind Switch or some such into e.g. Lillend, or Alternate Source Spell + whatever.

And if you can't use a Divine+Shadow PrC, nor tricks to meet prerequisites, you need Bard 1/Shadowcaster 9/Ur-Priest 9/Sublime Chord 1/Noctumancer 8 (and yes, even then you're tricking the Sublime Chord 3rd level arcane prereq, but that's elementary). Yes, that's level 28, but meh.
Uh... Shadowcaster qualifies for either side of Mystic Theurge, you know that, right? I am fairly certain MT would work in your first proposed build.

Eldariel
2010-04-16, 11:07 PM
Uh... Shadowcaster qualifies for either side of Mystic Theurge, you know that, right? I am fairly certain MT would work in your first proposed build.

Huh, you're right. I was thinking of Psionics (the more common "Triple Nines"-request, though of course you want Ardent there) there for a second. So alright, there you go.

arguskos
2010-04-16, 11:09 PM
Huh, you're right. I was thinking of Psionics (the more common "Triple Nines"-request, though of course you want Ardent there) there for a second. So alright, there you go.
It's a surprisingly little-known rule, so it's understandable. :smallwink:

I personally like doing the hilarious Wizard 3/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/MT 4. Double 9s with no effort? Ok then! :smallbiggrin:

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-17, 02:15 AM
Savage Bard 5 / Ur Priest 2 / Shadowcaster 3 / Sublime Chord 2 / Mystic Theurge 16 (shadowcaster/Ur Priest for 8 levels, Shadowcaster/Sublime Chord for 8)

Casts as: Ur Priest 10, Sublime Chord 10, Shadowcaster 19 - Level 28.

Take out 2 levels of Theurge (1 ur-priest, 1 sublime chord), and you'll have triple 9's still, at level 26.

Godskook
2010-04-17, 02:59 AM
Savage Bard 5 / Ur Priest 2 / Shadowcaster 3 / Sublime Chord 2 / Mystic Theurge 16 (shadowcaster/Ur Priest for 8 levels, Shadowcaster/Sublime Chord for 8)

Casts as: Ur Priest 10, Sublime Chord 10, Shadowcaster 19 - Level 28.

Take out 2 levels of Theurge (1 ur-priest, 1 sublime chord), and you'll have triple 9's still, at level 26.

I don't think its legal to take a prestige class twice, even if it is Mystic Theurge. Unless there's a ruling to that effect MT 16 is 6 levels too long.

On the other hand, Noctumancer covers the (Shadowcaster/Sublime Chord) part of the build seamlessly, so not a big deal.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-17, 03:18 AM
I don't think its legal to take a prestige class twice, even if it is Mystic Theurge. Unless there's a ruling to that effect MT 16 is 6 levels too long.

On the other hand, Noctumancer covers the (Shadowcaster/Sublime Chord) part of the build seamlessly, so not a big deal.

When the build reaches Mystic Theurge 10, it is ECL 22. That's into Epic progression, which allows Epic PrC progression.

This means that PrC's which have a 10 level progression can be extended to 20. Noctumancer is equally valid, however.

TaintedLight
2010-04-17, 12:36 PM
The problem with that is that the epic MT progression is terrible. You advance divine on even levels and arcane on odd, which makes it just as worthwhile to go Wiz/Clr instead.

Erith
2010-04-17, 04:56 PM
How cheesy are we talking here? I'm sure something could be done with dragonwrought kobold + loredrake...

2xMachina
2010-04-18, 05:00 AM
Not sure what shadow casting is....

But StP Erudite. Find a Dragon, take their Divine as Arcane spells. Be epic, and you now have Psion/Arcane/Divine lvl 9's

Maybe a Shadowcasting/Psion dual progression?

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-18, 05:13 AM
Not sure what shadow casting is....

But StP Erudite. Find a Dragon, take their Divine as Arcane spells. Be epic, and you now have Psion/Arcane/Divine lvl 9's

Maybe a Shadowcasting/Psion dual progression?

Dragons cast as sorcerors. Even if they have divine as arcane, they can only cast spells they know. You're better off finding a Warmage Rainbow Servant for adding all divine to arcane class list.