Telepathic Creature template [3.5]

[Kobold-Bard]

Telepathic Creature

Creating a Telepathic Creature
Telepathic Creature is an applied template that can be added to any creature with an Intelligence & Charisma of 3 or higher.

Size and Type
Size and Type remain unchanged. Gains the Psionic Subtype.

Special Qualities
A Telepathic Creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following qualities.

Telepathy (Su):
A Telepathic Creature can communicate telepathically with any creatures within 50 60 feet that have an Intelligence score of at least 3. It can communicate with as many creatures as it wishes, however creatures can only respond telepathically to the Telepathic Creature and not communicate telepathically with any other creatures the Telepathic Creature did, though they know if it did. No common language is needed.

Detect Thoughts (Su):
A Telepathic Creature can continuously use Detect Thoughts as the spell (caster level = the Telepathic Creature's HD; DC10+Cha Mod Will negates). It can suppress or resume this ability as a free action.

Abilities
-2 Wis. The ability to look into other creatures is a constant temptation, often over-ruling the Telepathic Creature's better judgement.

+3 +2 Sense Motive. Telepathic Creatures inherently have a better idea of when people are lying to them.

-2 Diplomacy. Telepathic Creatures are so used to just looking into people's minds that they tend to lose some of their outward personality

Level Adjustment
+0LA



Feat:

Mind Reader

Prerequisite
Telepathic Creature, Charisma 12, Sense Motive 6 Ranks

Benefit
You may continuously use Detect Thoughts as the spell (caster level = your HD; DC10+1/2HD+Cha Mod Will negates). You may suppress or resume this ability as a free action.

Normal
You may only communicate Telepathically with other creatures, not understand their surface thoughts.

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Thoughts? I'd like to keep it at 0LA, so does it need another penalty? The Sense Motive bonus is mostly to balance out a reasonable bonus with the Wis penalty to that stat.


Thanks in advance,

K-B

[lesser_minion]

An LA 0 template really needs to take away as much as it gives and trust to the base creature to be balanced. At the moment, this is basically an absolute no-brainer for anyone who doesn't care about wisdom.

If you also made the base creature mute and slapped a limit on the detect thoughts ability then I'd be tempted to call this fair.

[Kobold-Bard]

[QUOTE=lesser_minion;8315665]An LA 0 template really needs to take away as much as it gives and trust to the base creature to be balanced.

If you also made the base creature mute and slapped a limit on the detect thoughts ability then I'd be tempted to call this fair.[/QUOTE

Thanks.

Any particular limits that you'd suggest?

[lesser_minion]

I'd probably just make it into a feat that requires the template. That way, you do have to pay for the most important ability.

[Kobold-Bard]

Made it into a Feat:

Mind Reader

Prerequisite
Telepathic Creature, Charisma 12, Sense Motive 6 Ranks

Benefit
You may continuously use Detect Thoughts as the spell (caster level = your HD; DC10+Cha Mod Will negates). You may suppress or resume this ability as a free action.

Normal
You may only communicate Telepathically with other creatures, not understand their surface thoughts.

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More thoughts welcome from all.

[arguskos]

+3 Sense Motive is an unusual amount. Make it +4 or +2.

Also, you are aware this lets anyone get Mindsight with pretty much no trouble, right?

[Kobold-Bard]

+3 Sense Motive is an unusual amount. Make it +4 or +2.

Also, you are aware this lets anyone get Mindsight with pretty much no trouble, right?

I have no idea what Mindsight is, so no.

[arguskos]

I have no idea what Mindsight is, so no.
Mindsight (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Mindsight). This can't really be helped, but, yeah, I thought I'd let you know.

[peacenlove]

+3 Sense Motive is an unusual amount. Make it +4 or +2.

Also, you are aware this lets anyone get Mindsight with pretty much no trouble, right?

Mindbender is the better choice since this telepathy is only 50 feet radius (opposed to mindbender's 100 feet)

[arguskos]

Mindbender is the better choice since this telepathy is only 50 feet radius (opposed to mindbender's 100 feet)
This is also free, functionally. Mindbender only really works well in Beguiler builds, and costs a level.

[peacenlove]

This is also free, functionally. Mindbender only really works well in Beguiler builds, and costs a level.

Not gonna derail the thread more.
On subject i would propose increasing the telepathy to 60 feet (because usually abilities that grant telepathy do so at 60 or 100 feet, 50 strikes me as rather odd)

[arguskos]

Not gonna derail the thread more.
On subject i would propose increasing the telepathy to 60 feet (because usually abilities that grant telepathy do so at 60 or 100 feet, 50 strikes me as rather odd)
Meh, tis not a serious derail to mention that the template is free, and thus problematic.

As for the telepathy increase, yes, D&D tends to do things on the 20-ft and the +evennumber, making the 50 ft and +3 a mite bit odd.

[Kobold-Bard]

Mindbender is the better choice since this telepathy is only 50 feet radius (opposed to mindbender's 100 feet)

I'm trying to keep this at LA+0, I was originally going to have it as less than that.

Edit: 1. Ninja'd.

2. The +3 was because +4 sounded a bit much, but I wanted them to have a boost to it beyond balancing the Wisdom penalty. I made it +2 in the ned.

3. I never really noticed the range thing. I'll make it 60ft.

[arguskos]

I'm trying to keep this at LA+0, I was originally going to have it as less than that.
I'm curious as to why you wish it to remain LA +0?

Also, increasing it to 60 ft and +4 Sense Motive isn't gonna make it LA +1.

[Kobold-Bard]

I'm curious as to why you wish it to remain LA +0?

Also, increasing it to 60 ft and +4 Sense Motive isn't gonna make it LA +1.

Because I want to use this template, and I'd like to keep all of my class levels.

[peacenlove]

Meh, tis not a serious derail to mention that the template is free, and thus problematic.


Just being me, cautious and the like :smallsmile:
Well you have a point. I thought mindbender is a good dip for all arcane classes and invokers, however non arcane non wisdom focused classes would take this template in a heartbeat if they have access to LoM.
However this is a problem of the feat and not of the template so ... i have no clue :smallsigh:

[arguskos]

Because I want to use this template, and I'd like to keep all of my class levels.
LA buyoff exists, and is easy to do by level 3 for a LA +1 template. Every reasonabl DM I know permits it (that's a large number, btw).

I just abhor something that exists to be a free buff with no meaningful penalty. Better to make it LA 1 and have something fun and cool. course, that's just me.

[Magicyop]

I like this a lot. I have a couple suggestions, though... Number one, increase the telepathy range to 100 ft., make it just like normal telepathy on a creature such as a mind flayer. Number two, also give it, maybe a -2 bonus to spot and listen? Being able to exist mentally like this is bound to draw one to distraction. Plus, I think that subtraction should definitely make it a LA zero.

Number three, I think you should make it an inherited template. Otherwise, it's just like anyone walking around suddenly goes, "Huh. I just realized I can speak mentally to people now." And it would make a lot more sense for it to be some sort of psionic anomaly at the birth of a creature.

[DracoDei]

Wis penalty technically already reduces Spot and Listen, but further penalties also work.

I think that this COULD also work as the result of repeated telepath contact with other creatures... even being under a Permanency-ed Telepathic Bond for long enough in some cases.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hmmm...if we're looking for balancing options that make sense, how about this?

-2 penalty to Will saves: Telepathic creatures have exceptionally open minds, and, while they are more receptive to the thoughts of others, the same is true in reverse.

That gives you a serious hit, but one that makes sense within context and isn't life-threatening. It gives you some perks for your ability, but either penalizes you, or requires you to spend a feat in a less-than-optimal manner.