4e what can I do to lose aggro so to speak?

[randomhero00]

I'm sick of getting stomped on with my ranger in 4e. He often gets attacked first or focused first, and I have to agree with the DM. When we fight intelligent monsters its pretty obvious who the biggest danger is and who is one of the squishiest (me.) So any time there are monsters with fly or burrow, or just plain long ranged attacks I am almost always targeted first.

Stealth doesn't work in combat unless I can find concealment, which isn't likely, and even then only for 1-2 rounds depending on bluff check to restealth.

Any options?

[nightwyrm]

Where is your defender and why is he not doing his job?

[Mando Knight]

1.) Get smart with your stealth: find ways to hide.
2.) Get a Defender, that's their job.
3.) Shut down and destroy anything that tries to get close.
4.) Become invincible.

Pick any of them.

[randomhero00]

I never said I had a problem with the standard, melee dudes.

Defender can't defend what he can't mark in time.

I have no idea what you mean by find ways to hide. Maybe for a rogue, but it ain't happening for a ranger.

Invisibility isn't available right now, I'm in the low levels.

There's no way I can destroy all of them before they get to me. I'm talking about things that can make it to me in one round and attack. Like things that fly over defender's heads, burrow under them, stealth past them, or are long range artillery protected by their own melee. There is almost always one type of the above in nearly every fight.

[Anasazi]

First, an obvious point is get a better defender, or more defenders. Theres usually certain level groupings that each defender best defends against, but in your exact case, I would say a swordmage would be the best.

However, as thats another players character, you might not have control over it, so means of setting yourself up to be less of a target:
*Gnomes gain a reactive steath benefit whenever they roll init, which means you get to steath at the beginning of every conflict, and thus, are not the first to be seen by the enemies. They also have a very useful fade away ability that will prevent you from being teamed up on once an encounter. Yes, the stats for this race arent exactly the best for a ranger, but the other benefits well make up for the differences.
*If you're allowed the PHB3, hybriding works very well for this sort of thing. you have a specific weakness, hybrid around it.
*if you're in hide and still the easiest one to hit, then you either have an armor heavy team, or your defensive stats suck. bump up that ever useful dex stat of yours, this might involve you reimaging your character but in the long run you'll probably be better for it. You can usually get as much damage from a ranged ranger route as you can from the dual weapon ranger.
*Half elves get a free encounter made out of an at-will of any class, several classes have abilities that leave you invis or the like to enemies, wouldnt be a bad route to go.

With the information you've given us, thats the best I can offer (some stats and more specifics about your ranger would be most beneficial). While there are several feats that you can use to work around your defensive issues, I would suggest avoiding these as an option, rangers are not bad in the defense catogory, and thus, if you're having issues it probably has something to do with your specific build, which is generally something you want to fix in the beginning of your characters life, not the middle.

[nightwyrm]

Mind telling us what's the rest of your party and what particular ranger build you're using?

Of course, it may just be that your DM hates you and that's nothing any of us on the forum can do about.

[randomhero00]

I'm aware there are some races and classes that have such abilities. I'm an elf (archery) ranger though, nothing I can do about that now. And I doubt there's much wrong with my build, I looked at 3 or 4 guides before building him.

We occasionally have 2 defenders, one of them is a (lvl 4 or 5) swordmage. It rarely helps the situations I'm talking about. I'm saying *some* of them target me, the one's the defenders can't get to in time. I'm not saying the entire encounter targets me off the bat and doesn't stop until I'm dead every encounter. Its 1-3 monsters who can't be touched by the defender, at first, for one reason or another, that target me for 1-3 rounds about ~70% of the encounters. Which is usually enough to make it quite dangerous for me, and I often go unconscious.

When there is ranged artillery ~20 squares away from a melee front line the defenders can't get through, what are they supposed to do? When there's a thing with fly or burrow speed, that starts out behind the front lines, what are the defenders supposed to do?

My AC is more than fine, its 22 at lvl 6.

Hybrid isn't really allowed, most likely. But I'm still waiting for actual tips on what to take.

How am I supposed to be in hide for the whole encounter? By rules, as far as I can tell, its basically impossible for me.

Rest of the party (it varies) is wizard (he gets attacked too, but since I do more damage...) warden or swordmage, cleric, and barbarian IIRC.

[BRC]

Have you considered bribing the DM? It does wonders.

[DragonBaneDM]

How am I supposed to be in hide for the whole encounter? By rules, as far as I can tell, its basically impossible for me.



He meant "in hide" armor. Easy mistake.

I run a Level 9 Half-Orc Archer Ranger, so I feel your pain and I think I can help you.

First of all, did you pick up the powers Yield Ground, Disruptive Strike, Spitting Cobra Stance and (if you're high enough level) Weave Through The Fray? These are REALLY good at disengaging melee opponents or punishing them for attacking you.

I can DEFINATELY help with those pesky artillery monsters. Get a Cloak of Distortion (I THINK that is what it's called). Anything attacking you from more than 5 out takes a -5 penalty. And if they move within five, you may have Cobra Stance running.

Also, in Martial Power 2 there is a combat style called The Harrowing Swarm Archer. It lets you walk right up to a target and attack it without taking an OA, really helpful if you find yourself in melee a lot. You'd have to drop two feat slots on it, though.

All in all, though, what you have to learn to do is position yourself better. I can tell you play WoW from the title. Running past the Tank has the same effect in 4e as it does in WoW. You have to take an OA, yes, but it's better than the huge beating you'd take from not running. Also, ducking behind allies for cover from artillery monsters helps.

EDIT:
As an elf, sitting in difficult terrain waiting for something in melee works because you can use Yield or Weave to shift out of it and leave them stranded there.

[jiriku]

It sounds like you attack well and defend poorly. Thus, mechanically, you should devote more resources (powers, feats and gear) to self-protection, and fewer to offense. In battle, you should select your actions with an eye towards minimizing the apparent level of threat you present to all opponents except for those who are not in a position to retaliate against you (for example, shoot at the people who are engaged with the defender, and try to break LoS between yourself and enemy ranged threats, even if it means you can't attack for a round).

[DragonBaneDM]

It sounds like you attack well and defend poorly. Thus, mechanically, you should devote more resources (powers, feats and gear) to self-protection, and fewer to offense. In battle, you should select your actions with an eye towards minimizing the apparent level of threat you present to all opponents except for those who are not in a position to retaliate against you (for example, shoot at the people who are engaged with the defender, and try to break LoS between yourself and enemy ranged threats, even if it means you can't attack for a round).

I agree. A round without striker damage is less hindering for your party than an unconcious elf.

[Mordokai]

First of all, did you pick up the powers Yield Ground, Disruptive Strike, Spitting Cobra Stance and (if you're high enough level) Weave Through The Fray? These are REALLY good at disengaging melee opponents or punishing them for attacking you.

This should go a long way towards helping you. I picked all of these powers for my ranger and enemies have much harder time pinning her down. As ranger, do what PHB suggests. Hit hard then get out. These powers enable you to do that and Disruptive Strike should impose a good penalty on attacker once per encounter. Don't be shy about using it.

Know your powers. Move a lot. Don't let yourself be pinned. The biggest mistake the archer can make is staying rooted in one place. Change position all the time, use your racial ability to shift over difficult terrain and your superior speed to your advantage. But whatever you do, keep on moving.

[Anasazi]

First, there are more defenses than AC, its very likely that you're getting hit by attacks that target your other defenses.
Second, if its back row ranged thats taking you out, then perhaps they're actually minions. IE 1hp. if you're focus firing on the tanks targets then perhaps you're just running every encounter wrong. If they're not minions then perhaps your GM is running too high of challenges, or your healer is crap. Most of which come down to team participation.
Also, if the back row is 20 sqares away from their teams front line, then to get hit you're in the melee fray with the tanks as most attacks dont reach past ranged 20. Back up. If they want to attack you force them to get closer to the tanks front lines. if you're exactly 20 squares from them, if you move back 7 sqares (you're an elf) they have to do the same, infact, its much more likely that they cant keep up with your speed 7 which would leave them targeting someone else. If the cleric is spending its time healing the tanks, then make the tanks take the damage.
If a creature has fly or burrow, and its you its coming after, you have to assume you're going to get hit. you should be able to survive several series of attacks from said creature if its the only one attacking you. if its not, then it IS your defenders jobs to come get the targets. Especially if theres 2 defenders.
You want a hybrid suggestion? hybrid yourself with a leader. heal yourself.
You want means of staying stealthed? if you're trained in stealth then your second level utility will allow you to stealth on the move. And you dont need to be hidden the entire encounter, just the rounds in which those flying/burrowing creatures are coming after you.

[Fallbot]

I have this exact problem with my ranger, and DragonBaneDM's advice is good. Things like disruptive strike are invaluable, and...I don't really have anything to add, aside from my sympathies.

[Mastikator]

When we fight intelligent monsters its pretty obvious who the biggest danger is and who is one of the squishiest (me.) So any time there are monsters with fly or burrow, or just plain long ranged attacks I am almost always targeted first.

Any options?

If intelligent mobs are attacking you because you seem like the most dangerous, but also the squishiest, then just try not to seem like the most dangerous.
Simple as that.

[randomhero00]

He meant "in hide" armor. Easy mistake.

I run a Level 9 Half-Orc Archer Ranger, so I feel your pain and I think I can help you.

First of all, did you pick up the powers Yield Ground, Disruptive Strike, Spitting Cobra Stance and (if you're high enough level) Weave Through The Fray? These are REALLY good at disengaging melee opponents or punishing them for attacking you.

I can DEFINATELY help with those pesky artillery monsters. Get a Cloak of Distortion (I THINK that is what it's called). Anything attacking you from more than 5 out takes a -5 penalty. And if they move within five, you may have Cobra Stance running.

Also, in Martial Power 2 there is a combat style called The Harrowing Swarm Archer. It lets you walk right up to a target and attack it without taking an OA, really helpful if you find yourself in melee a lot. You'd have to drop two feat slots on it, though.

All in all, though, what you have to learn to do is position yourself better. I can tell you play WoW from the title. Running past the Tank has the same effect in 4e as it does in WoW. You have to take an OA, yes, but it's better than the huge beating you'd take from not running. Also, ducking behind allies for cover from artillery monsters helps.

EDIT:
As an elf, sitting in difficult terrain waiting for something in melee works because you can use Yield or Weave to shift out of it and leave them stranded there.

Yay, someone who actually read my posts. Yes, I have all those powers, except the too high level one, weave through fray. My ranger is already about as defensive as he can get without doing the hybrid/multi class thing (which isn't really allowed in my game).

Cloak and feat tip check, the cloak sounds great, I have a feeling its way past my budget atm. Plus ranged artillery is only about 1/4 of the problem. Attacking melee, and OAs is only about 1/5 of the problem. But finally some real tips, thanks, but its not going to change much. Ranger defense is mostly 1v1 and vs melee. Neither of which I'm having trouble with.

No, I played original EQ.

I'm somewhat irritated at the rest of you for automatically assuming me and my friends suck.


This should go a long way towards helping you. I picked all of these powers for my ranger and enemies have much harder time pinning her down. As ranger, do what PHB suggests. Hit hard then get out. These powers enable you to do that and Disruptive Strike should impose a good penalty on attacker once per encounter. Don't be shy about using it.

Know your powers. Move a lot. Don't let yourself be pinned. The biggest mistake the archer can make is staying rooted in one place. Change position all the time, use your racial ability to shift over difficult terrain and your superior speed to your advantage. But whatever you do, keep on moving.

I already have the powers and already move around as much as possible.


It sounds like you attack well and defend poorly. Thus, mechanically, you should devote more resources (powers, feats and gear) to self-protection, and fewer to offense. In battle, you should select your actions with an eye towards minimizing the apparent level of threat you present to all opponents except for those who are not in a position to retaliate against you (for example, shoot at the people who are engaged with the defender, and try to break LoS between yourself and enemy ranged threats, even if it means you can't attack for a round).
No, but thanks for trying.
Me shooting at defender's marked targets won't make a difference to the ranged artillery. NPCs aren't idiots, if they're ranged and out of threat from the melee they aren't going to attack the melee just because they're closest. I completely agree with my DM on this. This isn't WoW. They'll attack the most significant threat they can reach, which is almost always me. Despite my decent/high AC, they don't know that, they still see a scrawny elf beating the bejusus out of their friends.

I break LoS as much as possible. Hence the ~30% or so of encounters I don't have any problems with. I also use the nimble strike + cover method to keep from being counterattacked. Usually its not possible for one reason or another.

[MCerberus]

Are you opening with an encounter/daily usually? Try hitting one of the grounded opponents with an at-will in the first round, that way the flyers aren't screaming about how you shot Steve through the eye before your controller and defender gets a chance to work their mojo.

[randomhero00]

If intelligent mobs are attacking you because you seem like the most dangerous, but also the squishiest, then just try not to seem like the most dangerous.
Simple as that.

Ranger really only brings damage. If I purposefully hold back my damage then I'm dead weight to the group and should just reroll. So I don't see how that is simple. That is the main point of this thread. On how to seem less threatening. So you restating the theme of this thread doesn't help me in the least.


First, there are more defenses than AC, its very likely that you're getting hit by attacks that target your other defenses.
Second, if its back row ranged thats taking you out, then perhaps they're actually minions. IE 1hp. if you're focus firing on the tanks targets then perhaps you're just running every encounter wrong. If they're not minions then perhaps your GM is running too high of challenges, or your healer is crap. Most of which come down to team participation.
Also, if the back row is 20 sqares away from their teams front line, then to get hit you're in the melee fray with the tanks as most attacks dont reach past ranged 20. Back up. If they want to attack you force them to get closer to the tanks front lines. if you're exactly 20 squares from them, if you move back 7 sqares (you're an elf) they have to do the same, infact, its much more likely that they cant keep up with your speed 7 which would leave them targeting someone else. If the cleric is spending its time healing the tanks, then make the tanks take the damage.
If a creature has fly or burrow, and its you its coming after, you have to assume you're going to get hit. you should be able to survive several series of attacks from said creature if its the only one attacking you. if its not, then it IS your defenders jobs to come get the targets. Especially if theres 2 defenders.
You want a hybrid suggestion? hybrid yourself with a leader. heal yourself.
You want means of staying stealthed? if you're trained in stealth then your second level utility will allow you to stealth on the move. And you dont need to be hidden the entire encounter, just the rounds in which those flying/burrowing creatures are coming after you.

My other defenses are also quite good. Something like 18/21/19. If I was having trouble with my defenses, I would have said so, Kay? Can we all please stop assuming that?

Nope, they aren't minions. There are barely any minions in thunderspire labyrinth module.

I'm guestimating range. There is always a hallway or something that keeps me from getting out of range of the artillery. And I'm pretty sure bows are 25/50. Which is a lot more than 20.

Oh, good, more insults for me and my friends! Thanks so much!

Um, is there a mind reading feat you failed to mention in there? How am I supposed to know when the flying/burrowing monsters might be coming after me? And burrowing creatures usually start underground...impossible for me to even know.

Such awesome tips, hybrid with a defensive character you say?! Genius!

[randomhero00]

Are you opening with an encounter/daily usually? Try hitting one of the grounded opponents with an at-will in the first round, that way the flyers aren't screaming about how you shot Steve through the eye before your controller and defender gets a chance to work their mojo.

My ranger's at will does almost as much as his daily, and about as much as his encounters... (my twin strike is optimized, and most of his powers are defensive)

edit: and no, I don't open with them anyway.

[Amphetryon]

No offense, but you're systematically shooting down every attempt at help you've received so far. You're also not interested in hearing that the DM might be doing something that makes the encounters harder than standard. What, exactly, is it you're after for feedback? Advice gets sarcastically shot down, sympathy for your situation with comments on how others have handled similar is ridiculed and called unhelpful... what sort of input are you looking for besides advice and sympathy?

[Swordgleam]

Since it seems like you're doing everything you can to be defensive and there are situations where you simply can't get away from enemies, maybe the solution is to take Toughness and carry around some extra healing potions. There might be ways to make your Second Wind more effective, too; I can't remember off the top of my head.

[randomhero00]

No offense, but you're systematically shooting down every attempt at help you've received so far. You're also not interested in hearing that the DM might be doing something that makes the encounters harder than standard. What, exactly, is it you're after for feedback? Advice gets sarcastically shot down, sympathy for your situation with comments on how others have handled similar is ridiculed and called unhelpful... what sort of input are you looking for besides advice and sympathy?

Sorry, but saying I suck, or don't do damage dummy, is not advice. The real advice I have gotten I acknowledged and praised. What sort of input am I looking for?! Try reading the title of the thread! I was hoping there was some skill tricks or stealth trick that I had overlooked. Or low level magic items that might help (like the cloak that was mentioned.)

I think I'm pretty much done with this thread. It isn't worth the hassle.

[Dust]

This thread:
http://i39.tinypic.com/wlq52q.gif

So let's summarize the facts.

You complain that you are often being "attacked first or focused first." Fine.
You have also stated that you two defenders and 22 AC. You have also agreed that your GM is running things properly. And lastly, you have asserted that you're as "defensible as possible" and that the number of monsters that actually toss attacks your way is 1-3, "which is usually enough to make it quite dangerous for me."

One. To three.

I had to be the rainy day in this thread, but your angry sarcasm at everyone else has grated on my nerves. Frankly, I feel as though the most LIKELY situation that we can derive from this (Occam's Razor style!) is that you are blowing things out of proportion. I can conclude from your bitter tone that you get infuriated whenever you are KO'd in combat, making me simply assume that the problem is far less of one than you want to think.

So to be completely frank, my advice is to grow up.

[Anasazi]

It has nothing to do with your friends or you sucking. 4e is very reliant upon people playing their rolls, if one person faulters then the entire team is effected. A poorly focused team can be beaten by some very low level creatures. For your team to survive an encounter, you're obviously beyond that point, but that doesnt mean there arent still errors going on.

The way I see it, is theres 2 potential causes to this problem; either the issue is with the team, or its with your GM. Since your GM is running everything from a module, occam's razor would suggest its the team. Each one of your teams builds, play style, and decisions in combat is included in this option. Since none of us are sitting at your table, we're throwing out the possibilities that can cause these issues. Since you never gave any of us your character build or stats, then we have to go by what you've told us, which involves us knocking out the most common issues and moving from there.
There is no one uber solution to problems like these, we need to analyze the problem, and the less information we have the longer it will take.
None of us are here to attack you, we're trying to help you work out your problem in the best way we know how.

[Dust]

Well actually, I rather feel as though we were attacked in the course of the thread for attempting to assist. That's a pretty terrible feeling.

[Divide by Zero]

Two people calling Occam's Razor in a row. Interesting.

[Dust]

Indeed, what are the odds?

.....

:smallbiggrin:

[Anasazi]

Indeed, what are the odds?

.....

:smallbiggrin:

very slim I would imagine.

[greenknight]

Your Ranger (and the Barbarian) should be doing the most damage in the party, and with your defenses, quite a few attacks on you should miss. So my advice is work on the party Cleric. That may require retraining or even a complete rebuild.

If that Cleric takes Astral Seal (from Divine Power) and the party works together, the most injured party member can regain some hitpoints when that member hits the same target the Cleric did. Suddenly, taking a beating isn't quite as bad as it used to be.

But it gets better, if the Cleric has also taken the Power of Life Domain Feat (Divine Power). That allows some temp hitpoints when the Cleric hits with Astral Seal. And if the Cleric really wants some over the top healing ability, then the Pacifist Healer feat (Divine Power) will do it. With this strategy, the Cleric will do very little damage, but should easily be able to keep the rest of the party in good health.

[Mastikator]

Ranger really only brings damage. If I purposefully hold back my damage then I'm dead weight to the group and should just reroll. So I don't see how that is simple. That is the main point of this thread. On how to seem less threatening. So you restating the theme of this thread doesn't help me in the least.


Then you suck and should reroll.
Simple as that.

[MCerberus]

Then you suck and should reroll.
Simple as that.

That's not helpful.

My advice is to just just attack the monsters that are being handled by the rest of the party (debuffed, marked, first target for murder) or heading for your leader/squishy squish squishface controller early in the encounter. If monsters are still heading off to attack you for little reason, ask your DM about it, but I get the sense from this thread you may be over reacting.

[Thajocoth]

Well, the DM decides who the monsters attack, and you want the DM to have the monsters attack other people... So you can use Bribery, Intimidation, or Blackmail.

More seriously, it's the defender's job to keep the biggest enemies off you, and the Controller's job to keep the smallest ones off you (by moving them around or killing them). Complain to the appropriate party member that they're not doing their job.

You should be taking powers that compliment your play-style. Emergency buttons... A reaction to getting hit by melee that lets you shift away would be very useful, no?

Stealthing is for surprise rounds. After that, put it's existence out of your mind. There's nothing you can do about it.

Archer Ranger... So you, naturally, have a Greatbow (or at LEAST a Longbow...) You can be 20-25 squares away from your target with no penalty. Why are these enemies able to reach you in one round?

[Amphetryon]

What sort of input am I looking for?! Try reading the title of the thread! I was hoping there was some skill tricks or stealth trick that I had overlooked. Or low level magic items that might help (like the cloak that was mentioned.) I did read it. I read the responses from others, which, as I said, you systematically shot down, with as much tact as demonstrated in the quoted text. Your responses made it fairly clear that advice was not actually what you wanted, since you've simply negatively responded to almost all of it. Now, you're 'done with the thread because it's not worth the hassle'?

:smallconfused:

[BloodyAngel]

I'm pretty sure the original poster isn't checking this thing anymore guys. His rudeness not withstanding, posting here now is an exercise in futility.

... yes I realize the irony in posting that there's no point in posting. :smalltongue:

[Oracle_Hunter]

I'm pretty sure the original poster isn't checking this thing anymore guys. His rudeness not withstanding, posting here now is an exercise in futility.

... yes I realize the irony in posting that there's no point in posting. :smalltongue:
Aw, and I just found this thread :smalltongue:

Personally, I think the problem is either with the Player or his team. Even an "intelligent" DM will stop attacking the squishy character when the others are romping around landing OAs and controlling the battlefield.

Heck, as a 4e DM I've had to adjust my monsters' fighting style for just this reason. I'd like to be able to take down the controller-y Sorcerer with no defenses, but the damn character is always using the Half-Orc Warden to set up picks and the ridiculously-fast Druid is more than happy to take some multi-attacks with CA :smallfrown:

The only other thing I'd think to add is that the Ranger should have a Warden or Fighter setting up a pick between him and the melee. Trying to wade past those Defenders is damn annoying, and if there's a Shielding Swordmage around (is there any other kind of swordmage? :smalltongue:) dropping an Aegis on any high-damage enemies should be more than enough.

And if he's losing artillery-duels with enemy ranged... well, there's definitely something fishy going on there.

[tcrudisi]

Aw, and I just found this thread :smalltongue:

Personally, I think the problem is either with the Player or his team. Even an "intelligent" DM will stop attacking the squishy character when the others are romping around landing OAs and controlling the battlefield.

Heck, as a 4e DM I've had to adjust my monsters' fighting style for just this reason. I'd like to be able to take down the controller-y Sorcerer with no defenses, but the damn character is always using the Half-Orc Warden to set up picks and the ridiculously-fast Druid is more than happy to take some multi-attacks with CA :smallfrown:

The only other thing I'd think to add is that the Ranger should have a Warden or Fighter setting up a pick between him and the melee. Trying to wade past those Defenders is damn annoying, and if there's a Shielding Swordmage around (is there any other kind of swordmage? :smalltongue:) dropping an Aegis on any high-damage enemies should be more than enough.

And if he's losing artillery-duels with enemy ranged... well, there's definitely something fishy going on there.

Crud. +1 to everything, including me just finding this thread. Well said, Oracle.

[Mando Knight]

The only other thing I'd think to add is that the Ranger should have a Warden or Fighter setting up a pick between him and the melee. Trying to wade past those Defenders is damn annoying, and if there's a Shielding Swordmage around (is there any other kind of swordmage? :smalltongue:) dropping an Aegis on any high-damage enemies should be more than enough.

Well, an Eladrin Assault Swordmage, properly optimized, is a rather fun build that makes the DM's head spin as you seem to be everywhere at once, then crush a poor thug for trying to pick on your buddy.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Well, an Eladrin Assault Swordmage, properly optimized, is a rather fun build that makes the DM's head spin as you seem to be everywhere at once, then crush a poor thug for trying to pick on your buddy.
Oh, it's fun, but Shielding is just so good it almost seems like malpractice to take any other Aegis :smalltongue:

Don't get me wrong - I like playing "sub-optimized" characters for the sake of RP, but there are some things that just cross the line for me.

[Tiki Snakes]

Sounds like a job for bluff training to me. Put on a disguise, and stop looking so dangerous?

Failing that, simply talk with the DM and let him know that, whatever the logic, having entire encounters focus-fire on your character is kind of getting unnecessarily stressful and making things less fun.

Making you shout at people on message boards and stuff. :smallwink:

[Knaight]

Bluff training is good. Look like a civilian, delay until everyone else has acted, and then wipe out the target of your choice. Assuming a tactically viable target, everyone attacking you gives team mates a chance to sweep in, so you win either way.

[herrhauptmann]

I know the thread is useless now, but I've been wondering something and might've missed the answer.

Is the ranger the first person in the room ever? My LFR group makes that mistake regularly, and it usually ends up with a controller, leader or striker getting KO'd because they rolled a 20 on initiative, with everyone else in the low teens or worse.

How far back is the ranger hanging from the rest of the party? If it's say 5-15 squares to try and avoid the ranged monsters, he could be sabotaging himself.
The ranger who's 10 squares back and shooting is too far back for the defenders to help him if he gets solo'd or ganged up on by monsters who bypassed the party, or came up from behind.
And the DM might be ruling, that at that range, the ranger is not benefiting from friendly cover. For ranged monsters, everyone in the huddle has either high ac or is getting cover from allies. Then there's the ranger who's 20 squares back and has no cover and lower AC. Even simple ranged monsters (whatever game term they use), can outshoot a single striker when it's 3 or 4 to 1. They've got triple his actions, no incentive to save dailies for later fights, and potentially more action points.

Beyond that though, I do sympathize. My melee strikers (barbarian in LFR, and avenger in a homegame) tend to throw out damage, until they suddenly get 1 bad round that drives them from near full, to negatives before any healing can be obtained. Usually with a few status conditions as well, dazed, blind, slowed etc.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm sick of getting stomped on with my ranger in 4e. He often gets attacked first or focused first, and I have to agree with the DM. When we fight intelligent monsters its pretty obvious who the biggest danger is and who is one of the squishiest (me.)

I'm not so sure your DM is right about this. D&D is not a tactical war game, it is a roleplaying game. That means that it's not fair for your DM to always pick on the ranger, regardless of whether or not he considers this the best strategy.

[Optimystik]

Sounds like the DM is metagaming. Take the classic "it's what my character would do!" defense, and alter it to "it's what my monsters would do!" - and you have this thread.

[kieza]

Does your DM run fights in featureless plains? If not, you should be able to find some sort of cover or concealment for stealth to work. Even if it's a low wall, you should be able to get superior cover by crouching behind it (going prone). That'll let you hide (skill checks permitting) to get some stealth when necessary. Talk to the DM about tossing in more cool terrain.

Failing that, items that grant cover or concealment, or invisibility, are useful. There's a level 7 wondrous item in the AV, the Enshrouding Candle, which has a daily power which creates a zone of invisibility centered on it. It could be useful as an escape mechanism, since the invisibility lasts 8 hours or until you attack. Plus, it's useful for concealing an entire group as well.

Then there's the Cloak of Distortion, which will give you a massive bonus to defense against most ranged attacks, and the feat Combat anticipation, which gives +1 to defenses against all ranged, close, and area attacks.

[Shadow_Elf]

tl;dr, so my apologies if someone mentioned this, but get a Duelist's Bow. It gives any enemy you hit with it a -Enhancement penalty to attack rolls with ranged attack UENT. So, that would at least solve the artillery issues - as long as you return fire, they'll have a really hard time hitting you.

Alternatively, if you find the flying ones are more troublesome, you could ask for that flying-killer weapon (forget the name), which halves their fly speeds and can also ground them with a power.

Any utilities that immediate interrupts that shift, cancel or redirect attacks or buff defenses (and the ranger has more than a few) are also good additions.

[Excession]

"Skyrender" is the anti-flying enchantment.

[kieza]

I just found this while looking through Martial Power II: Try the rogue multiclass feat that gives Cunning Sneak 1/encounter. It'll let you hide with just cover/concealment if you move 3 squares first. As a ranger, you have access to lots of mobility powers, so you should have little trouble benefiting.

[cupkeyk]

Just a correction to the post of one of the guys. Cloak of distortion no longer gives a flat -5 to attacks from 5 squares away, it now scales equal to the enhancement bonus. So it equals and eventually exceeds the pre-errata version at epic, still good at heroic and paragon.

An advice that I can give the OP, don't bank on prime shot. It's nice but archer rangers should always fight from outside the battlegrid. Use your out of turn powers to get out of melee.