PDA

View Full Version : [3.5e] Marrutact: The Best Wizard Race?



Zeta Kai
2010-04-18, 10:44 AM
I've been reading Sandstorm lately (surprise!), I came across the Marrutact in the monsters section (pages 171-172). Here are the relevant details:

7d8 HD
Spell Resistance 16
+4 natural armor
Fire Resistance 5
Casts spells as a 5th-level Wizard
Level Adjustment: +3

Now, for a kicker, the book specifically says (on page 173) that "Marrutacts that add levels of Wizard add their natural spellcasting ability (5th level) to their class levels in Wizard & determine their spellcasting ability accordingly" (direct quote).

Now, I know that the cardinal rule of playing a caster is "Thou shalt not lose caster levels." Therefore, LA are generally frowned upon. But this seems to be a specific exception, & an exceptional one at that. For "only" +3LA, a Wizard gets 5 caster levels, 7d8HD, & a veritable host of other goodies. This is just crazy. I'll admit, from a DM's perspective, I'd raise an eyebrow (& an objection) if one of my players wanted to run a Marrutact outside of the desert without a great backstory. But mechanically, I can't see a downside to choosing this race over anything else.

Thoughts?

The Glyphstone
2010-04-18, 10:44 AM
I've been reading Sandstorm lately (surprise!), I came across the Marrutact in the monsters section (pages 171-172). Here are the relevant details:

7d8 HD
Spell Resistance 16
+4 natural armor
Fire Resistance 5
Casts spells as a 5th-level Wizard
Level Adjustment: +3

Now, for a kicker, the book specifically says (on page 173) that "Marrutacts that add levels of Wizard add their natural spellcasting ability (5th level) to their class levels in Wizard & determine their spellcasting ability accordingly" (direct quote).

Now, I know that the cardinal rule of playing a caster is "Thou shalt not lose caster levels." Therefore, LA are generally frowned upon. But this seems to be a specific exception, & an exceptional one at that. For "only" +3LA, a Wizard gets 5 caster levels, 7d8HD, & a veritable host of other goodies. This is just crazy. I'll admit, from a DM's perspective, I'd raise an eyebrow (& an objection) if one of my players wanted to run a Marrutact outside of the desert without a great backstory. But mechanically, I can't see a downside to choosing this race over anything else.

Thoughts?

yeah...the 7d8 HD. That's a 10th level character casting as a 5th level wizard you got there. ECL is calculated including racial hit dice, not ignoring them.

mostlyharmful
2010-04-18, 10:46 AM
No it isn't. It's a 10th level character casting as a fifth level. HD+LA and the virtual wizard casting gets ignored. Overall a pretty poor choice for a wizard but it could be flavourful for a change of pace.

Powerfamiliar
2010-04-18, 10:47 AM
They are ECL 10 and cast as a 5th level wizard. I played one in a monster game and they are very fun, and good gishes. They're ok in most games, they they are hardly an optimized or "best" race for a pure wizard.

Critical
2010-04-18, 10:53 AM
If your DM is like mine and doesn't actaully look at LA(ex. people started as centaurs, while I started as a level 1 Halfling), then this might be good. Otherwise, no.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-18, 11:00 AM
If your DM is like mine and doesn't actaully look at LA(ex. people started as centaurs, while I started as a level 1 Halfling), then this might be good. Otherwise, no.

Isn't that cheating? Or at least Munchkin to break the rules by not letting DM know the rules when you know them for your benefit?

Critical
2010-04-18, 11:04 AM
Isn't that cheating? Or at least Munchkin to break the rules by not letting DM know the rules when you know them for your benefit?
He understands that they're higher level. He just said "You're not born with your class abilities", when I asked if I can start as a halfling of higher level instead.

mostlyharmful
2010-04-18, 11:23 AM
He understands that they're higher level. He just said "You're not born with your class abilities", when I asked if I can start as a halfling of higher level instead.

ha, should've asked to start as a solar with no class levels. Then he should at least be a bit more open to negotiate about bonus levels on your halfling.

Draken
2010-04-18, 11:38 AM
Since Sandstorm isn't a 3.25 book like Fiend Folio, that LA isn't already counting the RHD (Fiend Folio LA already counts the RHD of the monster in it, you don't add it again).

But if it were a FF creature... Yeah, it would be pretty much the best thing ever.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-18, 11:39 AM
Since Sandstorm isn't a 3.25 book like Fiend Folio, that LA isn't already counting the RHD (Fiend Folio LA already counts the RHD of the monster in it, you don't add it again).

But if it were a FF creature... Yeah, it would be pretty much the best thing ever.

Wait, what?
Where did you read this? What page.

ECL = LA + RHD.
LA is level adjustment.
RHD= Racial HD.

Pg 11 says otherwise. It says add this number to RHD to get ECL. Really, either the book is contradictary (possible) or you are misreading (also likely).

Draken
2010-04-18, 11:50 AM
... It is what I said?

In 3.5 the LA is a number that you add to the RHD and the CL to determine the ECL.

But back in those transitory books from 3.0 that showed the first signs of 3.5 ruling (like Fiend Folio) LA was already a sum of RHD and what we now call LA, that you added solely to the CL to determine ECL when playing monster races.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-18, 11:56 AM
... It is what I said?

In 3.5 the LA is a number that you add to the RHD and the CL to determine the ECL.

But back in those transitory books from 3.0 that showed the first signs of 3.5 ruling (like Fiend Folio) LA was already a sum of RHD and what we now call LA, that you added solely to the CL to determine ECL when playing monster races.

No, look back on page 11 of Fiend Folio. It says not what you are saying.
Pg 11, reread that please.
It doesn't say it is aleady in RHD. It says add it to HD (including class levels) to get ECL.

Please tell me what pg you are reading from in Fiend Folio?

The Glyphstone
2010-04-18, 11:58 AM
Sandstorm is a 3.5 book anyways, so point is moot.

Draken
2010-04-18, 12:02 PM
Hmm... Odd. Where did I see that written then...

Volthawk
2010-04-18, 12:14 PM
Hmm... Odd. Where did I see that written then...

Some of the other 3.0 books (e.g. MMII) just say something like:



An yak folk PC's effective character level is equal to it's class level +7

CockroachTeaParty
2010-04-18, 12:20 PM
Probably the only acceptable race with racial HD and a LA for a wizard would be to play a black ethergaunt, from Fiend Folio.

16 HD, LA+4, so an ECL of 20, but they have 17th level wizard casting, so you still get 9th level spells. The +20 racial bonus to INT is icing on the gravy.

tyckspoon
2010-04-18, 12:24 PM
16 HD, LA+4, so an ECL of 20, but they have 17th level wizard casting, so you still get 9th level spells. The +20 racial bonus to INT is icing on the gravy.

The racial Int is really the only reason to even consider it; even with it you will usually get a stronger character out of a normal race + 10-15 levels worth of prestige classing.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-04-18, 12:27 PM
The racial Int is really the only reason to even consider it; even with it you will usually get a stronger character out of a normal race + 10-15 levels worth of prestige classing.

Of course. It's just a rare example of a monster race not completely screwing a full caster completely. And you'd only be able to play one at a level 20+ game, so it's not like you'll ever get a chance to play one anyway...

Starbuck_II
2010-04-18, 12:35 PM
Someone should make as Savage species class of Black Etherguant.

Volthawk
2010-04-18, 12:35 PM
Someone should make as Savage species class of Black Etherguant.

You mean like this? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8219832&postcount=315)

Gralamin
2010-04-18, 01:14 PM
The racial Int is really the only reason to even consider it; even with it you will usually get a stronger character out of a normal race + 10-15 levels worth of prestige classing.

What about the ability to ignore all arcane spells of 6th level and lower?

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-18, 01:22 PM
I've been reading Sandstorm lately (surprise!), I came across the Marrutact in the monsters section (pages 171-172). Here are the relevant details:

7d8 HD
Spell Resistance 16
+4 natural armor
Fire Resistance 5
Casts spells as a 5th-level Wizard
Level Adjustment: +3

Now, for a kicker, the book specifically says (on page 173) that "Marrutacts that add levels of Wizard add their natural spellcasting ability (5th level) to their class levels in Wizard & determine their spellcasting ability accordingly" (direct quote).

Now, I know that the cardinal rule of playing a caster is "Thou shalt not lose caster levels." Therefore, LA are generally frowned upon. But this seems to be a specific exception, & an exceptional one at that. For "only" +3LA, a Wizard gets 5 caster levels, 7d8HD, & a veritable host of other goodies. This is just crazy. I'll admit, from a DM's perspective, I'd raise an eyebrow (& an objection) if one of my players wanted to run a Marrutact outside of the desert without a great backstory. But mechanically, I can't see a downside to choosing this race over anything else.

Thoughts?

If this worked the way you thought it does then Rakshasas would be the most amazing caster Race ever.

Draken
2010-04-18, 01:26 PM
After better inspection of the Fiend Folio I have noticed that what you said is exactly what happened. That book is very inconsistent in how the LA works.

For instance:

There is the general rule in page 11.

There is the Maug Characters entry in the Maug and the Rilmani Characters entry in the RIlmani. Both of which follow the rule from page 11.

And then there is the Nerra entry, which is what I was using, and follows the rule I mentioned earlier.

Eh. Go figure.

Half-Full
2010-04-18, 05:20 PM
After better inspection of the Fiend Folio I have noticed that what you said is exactly what happened. That book is very inconsistent in how the LA works.

For instance:

There is the general rule in page 11.

There is the Maug Characters entry in the Maug and the Rilmani Characters entry in the RIlmani. Both of which follow the rule from page 11.

And then there is the Nerra entry, which is what I was using, and follows the rule I mentioned earlier.

Eh. Go figure.

Just read the Nerra entry.

LA +18!?!? WTF?! What do the Sillit gain that deserve a LA +18?!?! NOTHING! NOTHING is ever worth LA +18! Even a level 19 Commoner is more powerful than a ECL 19 Sillit!

BRC
2010-04-18, 05:29 PM
What they are is the nastiest wizard race for a DM to use.

Casts as a 5th level Wizard, 7d8 HD, other goodies, at CR 5, the same CR as a normal 5th level wizard.
If your a DM, limited by CR rather than ECL, it's more powerful than a normal wizard in pretty much every way.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-18, 05:30 PM
Varrots have 1 HD this gets replaced by class level.
So a 1st level Varrot rogue = ECL 4 (1+3=4)

They are still following the rules here. They are the only worth it race.

But, I'll admit they don't mention the RHD so it sounds like they don't include it for the others as well.

The Nerra get 2 free +2 Wounded weapons (longsword/dagger).

Silit have too much LA.

Otodetu
2010-04-18, 06:01 PM
Silit must be typo. Done.

AslanCross
2010-04-18, 06:46 PM
The Hobgoblin Warcaster from MM5 is better as a DM monster race. It has 4 RHD and 4th-level Wizard spellcasting, with the same caster level stacking clause. It has spell resistance that explicitly scales with level, as well as an ability that broadcasts SR to other monsters in the area. It also has an ability that buffs it when it successfully saves against spells.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-18, 06:48 PM
The Hobgoblin Warcaster from MM5 is better as a DM monster race. It has 4 RHD and 4th-level Wizard spellcasting, with the same caster level stacking clause. It has spell resistance that explicitly scales with level, as well as an ability that broadcasts SR to other monsters in the area. It also has an ability that buffs it when it successfully saves against spells.

Does it have LA +0?
It may not be suitable for PCs otherwise.

Flickerdart
2010-04-18, 06:51 PM
The Nerra get 2 free +2 Wounded weapons (longsword/dagger).

Unless they can grow them, they don't actually, just like a Solar player wouldn't get their weapons and a Dragon player wouldn't get a hoard.

AslanCross
2010-04-18, 07:05 PM
Does it have LA +0?
It may not be suitable for PCs otherwise.

I said DM monster race. It's LA +3, making it fall behind a standard hobgoblin wizard PC in terms of caster level.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-18, 07:07 PM
Unless they can grow them, they don't actually, just like a Solar player wouldn't get their weapons and a Dragon player wouldn't get a hoard.

Dragon doesn't get it listed as a racial feature.
Solars don't have it listed either as racial feature.
They just usually do.

Nerra do get it listed.

Flickerdart
2010-04-18, 07:36 PM
Dragon doesn't get it listed as a racial feature.
Solars don't have it listed either as racial feature.
They just usually do.

Nerra do get it listed.
No, what they get listed is the proficiency feat. Nowhere does it say that Nerra get free swords, merely that their culture uses them. You might as well start all Dwarves with free Dwarven Waraxes.