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Lycanthromancer
2010-04-19, 12:00 AM
Okay, let's say you're fighting against a young adult dragon, and it's using Adroit Flyby Attack to strafe-attack you without taking attacks of opportunity, and you're wanting to pull it out of the air.

You want to grab it by the ankle, and yank it down, throwing it to the ground, it lands prone, and you can whack it until it dies.

My roommate says this would be a grapple and pin. I say it conforms exactly to a Trip attempt.

1. You make a touch attack to grab it by the ankle.
2. You make an opposed Strength check to pull it out of the air and throw it toward the ground.
3. If you win, it falls to the ground, and quite likely ends prone.

He's the DM in this case, and he says the PHB says you can't trip a flying creature, but I've never seen text to that effect, either in the flying rules or the tripping rules.

Whaddaya say, folks? Trip, or grapple?

Sallera
2010-04-19, 12:01 AM
From the Rules Compendium, p. 145.

"Tripping a Flying Defender
A winged creature can be tripped, and if it is, it falls as if it didnít maintain its minimum forward speed."

Togo
2010-04-19, 12:31 PM
Isn't tripping a flying creature given as an example in the trip rules in the PHB?

Coidzor
2010-04-19, 01:17 PM
From the Rules Compendium, p. 145.

"Tripping a Flying Defender
A winged creature can be tripped, and if it is, it falls as if it didnít maintain its minimum forward speed."

Ooo, support for the most awesome thing I've done so far.

Though we all later realized/thought that it probably was rules illegal... I guess that advice about flying creatures against trippers is to keep them out of the tripper's reach, then. So basically flying ranged/with better reach.

herrhauptmann
2010-04-19, 06:08 PM
You want to grab it by the ankle, and yank it down, throwing it to the ground, it lands prone, and you can whack it until it dies.
My roommate says this would be a grapple and pin. I say it conforms exactly to a Trip attempt.
1. You make a touch attack to grab it by the ankle.
2. You make an opposed Strength check to pull it out of the air and throw it toward the ground.
3. If you win, it falls to the ground, and quite likely ends prone.
He's the DM in this case, and he says the PHB says you can't trip a flying creature, but I've never seen text to that effect, either in the flying rules or the tripping rules.
Whaddaya say, folks? Trip, or grapple?
Rules compendium lets you trip a flying foe. But that's been stated already.

Instead of focusing on whether the creature is flying or not, try applying your method of attack to a typical land based creature.
To me it sounds more like you're describing a trip attempt.
I figure starting a grapple with a flying creature would work the same as with a terrestrial creature. Grab them, make the hold. Successfully pin, start dealing damage.

Fizban
2010-04-19, 06:30 PM
So basically flying ranged/with better reach.
Bolas. Eat the -4 non-proficiency and throw your trip attack at them.

Sadly, tripping anything with maneuverability above average is useless, since they don't have a minimum forward speed. You'll get dragons and flying mounts pretty easily though.