druid with limited sourcebooks

[urbanpirate]

so the dm is a weenie, and i can only use phb, dmg and monster manual 1 to build my druid. is it even possible to optimize?

[Glimbur]

Take Natural Spell. Use your animal companion, wildshape, and spells. Bam! Optimized enough.

[Pluto]

Natural Spell at 6th level and Quicken Spell at 12th level put a Druid very close to the top of the food chain, in or out of Core.

edit:
whoa that's a lot of the same answer.

Um, to make this post look more useful, I'll also mention Entangle at low levels and grabbing a Wolf/Riding dog to eat the baddies' faces.

That's the ticket.

[d13]

Yes. Natural Spell.

[Brendan]

absolutely. by definition, being a druid is a form of optimization, even within core. just be an animal all day and you should prosper.

[Alvrick]

take natural spell at 6th level. from there on out, you can only truly ruin the class if you run away from combat as your allies curse your cowardly behind

[Kylarra]

so the dm is a weenie, and i can only use phb, dmg and monster manual 1 to build my druid. is it even possible to optimize?Out of curiosity, is everyone limited to core, or just you? :smalltongue:

Also calling your DM a "weenie" is a great sign of maturity that anyone would want in their game.

I'm sure that others will probably mention it too, but you're playing one of the strongest classes in core, and one of the few classes that is strong at any given level simply taken 1-20.

[Eldariel]

so the dm is a weenie, and i can only use phb, dmg and monster manual 1 to build my druid. is it even possible to optimize?

Pick Natural Spell, done. That's all a Druid needs. Druid's power is so great specifically because their power lies in Core. Riding Dogs, Dire Bats, Bears, etc. are great companions (and Deinonychus, felines, bears and company are great Wildshape options), you can either use Monk's Belt (your Wildshape lasts so long that you can just put it on after Wildshaping) or Dragonhide Fullplate with the Wild-property; as it melds, all you get is the armor bonus and you're free to profit of Dex-bonus and all that. Either gets you nice Armor Class.

Then get your animal companion Studded Leather Bardings (later Mithril Chain or even Mithril Breastplate; if you get a War-trained companion, you can even give 'em a Fullplate), Greater Magic Fang on all weapons (you too) and maybe Barkskins and such. For other equipment yourself, use morning buff tools like Rods of Extend Spell and Beads of Karma, and external stuff like Animated Shields and Ioun Stones so they don't intervene with Wildshape.


Then just pick spells and feats and such. Your feats can either fuel your combat ability (Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Multiattack [MM], etc.), your summons (Augment Summoning) or your spellcasting (Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Penetrations, even Spell Focus or Empower Spell if you feel really bored). Pick 'em as such.

Race: Human (feat), Gnome (Con, small size so you can ride your Riding Dog) or Halfling (as above, but slightly worse as Con still determines your HP while Wildshaped while Str doesn't matter at all). Dwarf isn't also horrible per ce (it never is) and you can use heavy armor at all times with little trouble as one, but it's kinda overkill with how good a Druid's saves are.


Fight at range (and with spells like Produce Flame, Entangle and such) before getting Wildshape, ride your companion as appropriate (Dire Bat is a particularly awesome flying mount on level 4) and profit. Oh yeah, your Companion should pretty much act like a frontliner in combat with stuff like tracking and spotting and such outside it. Companions are good for stuff like that.

Skills: Handle Animal needs to be high enough to take 10 to teach your companion all tricks you want (so +10 counting the companion bonus), though more can be useful (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871522/The_Handle_Animal_Guide). Spot and Listen should be maxed as you're by far the best in the game on those. Concentration (you're a caster often in melee; you can even hold charges of spells to discharge while attacking) and Knowledge: Nature should mostly be maxed. Rest should go to mobility and stuff you can use in animal form like:
Tumble
Balance (5 ranks means you aren't flat-footed while balancing; absolute lifesaver)
Hide
Move Silently
as desired. Also, Diplomacy is very useful, Sense Motive is good to max (even cross-class thanks to your insane Wis), etc.


Ahem, and: Be considerate of the rest of the group's power level, mind that you are playing the strongest class in Core and aim to make the game fun for everyone.

[Lateral]

Why take Natural Spell at level 6? It's the one most important feat for a CoDzilla'd druid, why not lv1?

edit: Druids let you wildshape into things, but they're only limited by size and creature type. I've been thinking, RAW, can you wildshape into, say, a paragon deinonychus (CR 18 because CR 3 plus CR 15 from paragon template) at 5th level?...:smallconfused:

edit: Oh yeah, Wild Shape is at 5th level and the next feat is lv6. Right.

[urbanpirate]

Out of curiosity, is everyone limited to core, or just you? :smalltongue:

Also calling your DM a "weenie" is a great sign of maturity that anyone would want in their game.

pretty much (but not quite) everyone is limited to core. I am really reluctant to play with this dude but the wife really wants to game.

[Eldariel]

Why take Natural Spell at level 6? It's the one most important feat for a CoDzilla'd druid!

Because you can't take it until level 6.


pretty much (but not quite) everyone is limited to core. I am really reluctant to play with this dude but the wife really wants to game.

Well, Druid is fine. Really, you need nothing out of core. Few spells are fun as are few companions but core has everything you need.

[Kylarra]

pretty much (but not quite) everyone is limited to core. I am really reluctant to play with this dude but the wife really wants to game.Meh. The exception worries me a little, but the core restriction could be for any of dozens of reasons, some more legit than others.

A tip though? Starting off antagonistic or condescending is a great way to make your experience worse than it really needs to be.

[DSCrankshaw]

Non-core books do more to help the rest of the party catch up to the full casters than make the full casters more powerful (though they do that too).

Core druid is plenty powerful. As are core wizard and core cleric.

[nargbop]

Natural Spell is awesome. I suggest a wide variety for your wildshapes, and have a spreadsheet of all the stats available immediately. Your ability to scout as an octopus and fly as a hawk are very useful to the team.

If you can argue for some other books, Complete Divine and Races of the Wild are very nice for you. I'm currently playing an Arcane Heirophant with Arcane Strike - haven't missed yet.

[Zeful]

so the dm is a weenie, and i can only use phb, dmg and monster manual 1 to build my druid. is it even possible to optimize?

The DM is a weenie to restrict the single most broken class in the game to it's absolute minimum?

...
I wouldn't recommend reading about many of the discussions to fix the druid by taking the options you currently have, and removing most of them.

[Paul H]

Hi

In my experience, you actually don't play a Druid............

You play an Animal Companion. Druid's just there for the buffs & occasional healing! :smallsmile:
(Exception - Shillelagh with Two Wpn fighting is also great)!

Thanks
Paul H

[Paul H]

Hi

GM: "The Rogue fires his bow at you from behind the crate and misses. Paul, you're next.."

Paul: Druid casts Bull's Strength on me. Can I charge & leap over the crate to savage his throat? I've got a good Jump Skill!

Thanks
Paul H

[Tinydwarfman]

Hi

In my experience, you actually don't play a Druid............

You play an Animal Companion. Druid's just there for the buffs & occasional healing! :smallsmile:
(Exception - Shillelagh with Two Wpn fighting is also great)!

Thanks
Paul H

What about wildshaping into a bear and ripping people's faces off? And really, druids get some pretty good (non healing and buffing) spells to get them over the four level hump till they get wildshape.

Also might want to edit that double post.

[Paul H]

What about wildshaping into a bear and ripping people's faces off? And really, druids get some pretty good (non healing and buffing) spells to get them over the four level hump till they get wildshape.

Also might want to edit that double post.

Hi

I was just highlighting Druid's versatility - I did say "in my experience".

And don't forget Druids make excellent Summoners & Elementalists too. With Natural Spells & Eschew Materials you can cast most spells in Wildshape. So turn yourself into an Eagle, and cast from high.........

Thanks
Paul H