The Ramifications of Mithril Weaponry

[Gan The Grey]

The DMG explains that, by using mithril as the constructing agent, metal armors can have their weight reduced by half, and are also counted as being one weight category lighter. Thus, mithril breastplate, an otherwise medium armor that reduces a wearer's speed, is now counted as light armor. It no longer reduces a character's speed and many classes can now enjoy its benefits without losing access to their class features.

However, making a mithril weapon has no benefit, other than weight reduction.

My question: Would a houserule that allows a mithril weapon to effectively function as one size category smaller than it really is be overpowered? What are the ramifications of such a rule?

I hope I'm wording this right. I'm not sure if 'one size category smaller' is exactly what I mean. Basically, if you were to take a generally two-handed mostly metal weapon like a medium greatsword and make it out of mithril. It would still do 2d6 damage, but instead of being a two-handed weapon, it would now be a one-handed weapon. Thoughts?

[AslanCross]

It's not overpowered, though it's kind of pointless. Eventually you get more damage from your strength bonus than the weapon's damage dice.

[shadow_archmagi]

What that would mean is that every player just gets a mithril weapon one size larger.

You end up with a party who all wield oversized weapons.

However, here's the thing.

Let's take your theoretical sword and board fighter. He swaps out his longsword for a mithril greatsword. He goes from expecting 4.5 damage on average to expecting 7 damage on average.

Is that the kind of boost you think the price of mithril is appropriate for?

[JaronK]

A size increase doesn't do much unless the base damage is huge. So, it might matter a lot for a Half Minotaur with Strongarm Bracers wielding a Mithral Fullblade, but that's about it.

And no, I don't think it's overpowered. Melees can use it.

JaronK

[Gan The Grey]

It's not overpowered, though it's kind of pointless. Eventually you get more damage from your strength bonus than the weapon's damage dice.

So...? It's an option. D&D is about options. And it's an increase in damage output, however small doesn't really matter. If it was pointless, the PHB would only have the stats for one weapon: dagger. Because, why use anything better when your strength bonus will eventually cause more damage than the weapon's damage dice?

But you are right about the damage dice, though in truth:
Rogues will eventually do more damage with their sneak attack.
Scouts will eventually do more damage with their skirmish.
Fighters will eventually leap attack and power attack...
Paladins will eventually smite...
Barbarians RAWR THOG ANGRY....
Druids BEAR BEAR BEAR...
Warlocks PEW PEW PEW...
Wizards WORLD ENDING EXPLOSION...

So, yeah, at sufficiently higher levels the size a weapon's damage dice won't really matter for all characters across the board, I give you that. :smallbiggrin:


What that would mean is that every player just gets a mithril weapon one size larger.

You end up with a party who all wield oversized weapons.

However, here's the thing.

Let's take your theoretical sword and board fighter. He swaps out his longsword for a mithril greatsword. He goes from expecting 4.5 damage on average to expecting 7 damage on average.

Is that the kind of boost you think the price of mithril is appropriate for?

A world of oversized weapons is possible, depending on crafting times, scarcity of materials, cost.

And I have NO problem giving Sword and Boarders the ability to do more damage. Since, you know, they can't do damage now. Melee should have nice things too, you know.

But, let me ask this. At about what point, level wise, in a campaign would you expect the entire party to be wielding oversized weapons?

[Keld Denar]

Don't forget the Mithril weapons are ALWAYS considered Masterwork, but thats kinda a moot point since MW weapons are pretty cheap proportionally.

As far as changing the level of effort that is required, well, that gets you into a bit of a mess. Most 2 handed weapons wouldn't really be wieldly when used 1 handed, like any polearm. Balance-wise, its not too outlandish. After all, you are only gaining in most circumstances, 1-3 extra damage per hit or so.

I think a better possibilty would be to say that all mithril weapons are finessable. There is already the Feycraft template in the DMGII, which does similar. A Feycraft Greatsword would cost 1550 gold and do 1d10 (avg 5.5) damage due to the size reduction. A Mithril Greatsword would cost 4000g (normally 8 lbs x 500 gp per pound), but deal 2d6 (avg 7). So you are paying almost 2500g for an extra 1.5 damage per swing. To put that in perspective, a +2 Str gauntlet gives you +1 hit and +1 damage, or +3 damage with PA.

So yea, if you made Mithril weapons finessable, that would keep them balanced, IMO.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The way a weapon is balanced is has a fair bit to do with shape and volume as well as weight. A four-and-a-half foot long blade is going to be somewhat difficult to control with just one hand no matter how heavy it is.

[AslanCross]

Well, you could do it if you really wanted to. The weapon doesn't get anything else besides.


The way a weapon is balanced is has a fair bit to do with shape and volume as well as weight. A four-and-a-half foot long blade is going to be somewhat difficult to control with just one hand no matter how heavy it is.

This is true. Real life greatswords aren't very heavy--it's their length that makes them difficult to swing. Try swinging a six foot long PVC pipe in one hand and two hands and compare the difference. It's not heavy at all, but the way physics moves the pipe's parts makes it unwieldy.

[Gan The Grey]

The way a weapon is balanced is has a fair bit to do with shape and volume as well as weight. A four-and-a-half foot long blade is going to be somewhat difficult to control with just one hand no matter how heavy it is.

Whoa, WHOA. Think of the catgirls.


Don't forget the Mithril weapons are ALWAYS considered Masterwork, but thats kinda a moot point since MW weapons are pretty cheap proportionally.

As far as changing the level of effort that is required, well, that gets you into a bit of a mess. Most 2 handed weapons wouldn't really be wieldly when used 1 handed, like any polearm. Balance-wise, its not too outlandish. After all, you are only gaining in most circumstances, 1-3 extra damage per hit or so.

I think a better possibilty would be to say that all mithril weapons are finessable. There is already the Feycraft template in the DMGII, which does similar. A Feycraft Greatsword would cost 1550 gold and do 1d10 (avg 5.5) damage due to the size reduction. A Mithril Greatsword would cost 4000g (normally 8 lbs x 500 gp per pound), but deal 2d6 (avg 7). So you are paying almost 2500g for an extra 1.5 damage per swing. To put that in perspective, a +2 Str gauntlet gives you +1 hit and +1 damage, or +3 damage with PA.

So yea, if you made Mithril weapons finessable, that would keep them balanced, IMO.

I hinted at it in my original post, but not all weapons would benefit from being mithril. Spears are generally constructed of wood and metal, so being made of mithril wouldn't do much.

What if it allowed two-handed weapons (appropriate ones) to be used one-handed, and allowed all one-handed weapons to be finessable?

[AslanCross]

Whoa, WHOA. Think of the catgirls.


...yeah, but you're talking about the weapon's weight reduction having a mechanical effect.

[pffh]

I would rather make them finessable and all mithril one handed weapons would count as light weapons for dual weilding.

[Gan The Grey]

I would rather make them finessable and all mithril one handed weapons would count as light weapons for dual weilding.

So, just to ask this question aloud:

You think someone should be able to finesse a greatsword?

[AslanCross]

So, just to ask this question aloud:

You think someone should be able to finesse a greatsword?

I think it's fine. The Elves have the finessable Elven Courtblade, which is a two-handed weapon.

EDIT: Besides, it still requires a feat investment (read: special training) to do that with a mithral greatsword.

[Keld Denar]

I direct you to Races of the Wild, specifically page 166. There-in lies the secrets of the Elven Courtblade....dun dun dun.....a finessable Greatsword.

Basically, you are trading ~4000g for a feat (EWP: Courtblade). Thats a pretty fair trade. Crappy feats should be pretty cheap.

EDIT: Gah, thats what I get for referencing books first, posting second! Next time, I'll just post first and edit in details....

[Gan The Grey]

I direct you to Races of the Wild, specifically the pages with equipment. There-in lies the secrets of the Elven Courtblade....dun dun dun.....a finessable Greatsword.

Basically, you are trading ~4000g for a feat (EWP: Courtblade). Thats a pretty fair trade. Crappy feats should be pretty cheap.

You'd think I'd learn not to open my mouth and ask seemingly obvious questions when dealing with D&D. An exception always exists SOMEWHERE. :smalltongue:

And actually, it's TWO feats. One for EWP, the other for weapon finesse. So, not really worth it all for that weapon.

[Coidzor]

You'd think I'd learn not to open my mouth and ask seemingly obvious questions when dealing with D&D. An exception always exists SOMEWHERE. :smalltongue:

And actually, it's TWO feats. One for EWP, the other for weapon finesse. So, not really worth it all for that weapon.

Well, you still have to pay the feat cost to use the finessability, so... Really more the EWP feat (and the ability to make use of the finesse feat) that's being paid for.

if, you said that mithril weapons were finessable without needing the weapon finesse feat, then you'd be getting two feats for cash.

Not sure how many rogues would be using mithril greatswords... but, whatevskies.

[Keld Denar]

Eh, I always thought it would be kinda fun to do a Daring Outlaw build (Rogue4/Swash16 for simplicity) with a Courtblade, probably on a Grey Elf chassis. Opening round of combat starts with a Shocktroopered Leap Attack resulting in a Diagonal Cut (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DiagonalCut). Tons of PA damage plus SA to add injury to injury.

[Whammydill]

I'd let it be monkey gripped without the penalty, thats about it. Finesse....maybe. Though all the weapons training I've done with longswords(bastard swords), and rapiers makes my brain scream no about the last one on both.

[Kyrthain]

One other problem is that some weapons need to be heavy to be effective. If it didn't have as much weight, it wouldn't do as much damage

[hamishspence]

yes- unless the weapon has ridiculously good cutting abilities.

If somehow, all is needed is a light swipe to cleave a big chunk of flesh of the target, weight matters less.

[Keld Denar]

Obligatory:

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/6/22/633496907522863022-Katana.jpg

[Spiryt]

yes- unless the weapon has ridiculously good cutting abilities.

If somehow, all is needed is a light swipe to cleave a big chunk of flesh of the target, weight matters less.

And "good cutting abilities" are highly dependent on sectional density among other things.

So sword of the same cross section made of much lighter (2 times) mithril will cut much worse.

There will be much less weight of metal gathered on given space pushing targets molecules aside.

And while impact comes from the motion of the body, something (sword ) muse use it appropriately.

In short getting into such discussions about D&D is pretty pointless.

If someone wants very light sword from mithril, let 'em have it, with appropriate fluff and all. That's fantasy after all.

[hamishspence]

I was thinking more about ones that are excessively sharp- maybe steel can only be sharpened so much, whereas mithril can hold an edge a few molecules thick, and so on.

[Gan The Grey]

And "good cutting abilities" are highly dependent on sectional density among other things.

So sword of the same cross section made of much lighter (2 times) mithril will cut much worse.

There will be much less weight of metal gathered on given space pushing targets molecules aside.

And while impact comes from the motion of the body, something (sword ) muse use it appropriately.

In short getting into such discussions about D&D is pretty pointless.

If someone wants very light sword from mithril, let 'em have it, with appropriate fluff and all. That's fantasy after all.

The catgirls thank you.

[Spiryt]

The catgirls thank you.

I didn't start it :smalltongue:

Anyway :

You like your catgirls blood red or roasted, guys?

[Brother Oni]

Careful, you're starting to wander into Shadowrun territory with monomolecular swords.

Speaking of which, I wonder how much damage would a monofilament whip do in D&D terms?
Any catgirl deaths are to be regarded as incidental collateral damage and do not impact on the weapon's effectiveness.

[Eldan]

Monomolecular weaponry? Hmm. I wouldn't actually increase the damage much and instead let them ignore armour. Similar to brilliant energy, but a little better. Similar price range, too.

[Spiryt]

Wouldn't it actually be more akin to radiation?

Single molecules passing trough your body? :smalltongue:

[Eldan]

I'm going entirely by how monomolecular weaponry is shown in SciFi: incredibly thin blades or filaments which cut through just about anything. I have not the slightest idea what it would actually do in real life.

[hamishspence]

I thought it was just the edge that was thin (because the weapon tapers to the thin edge)- the actual weapon itself might be somewhat thicker at its thickest point.

[unre9istered]

Monomolecular whip = keen (or vorpal) and maybe brilliant energy whip dagger?

[Harperfan7]

I have had a houserule that if your weapon is mostly made of mithril and you use your dex to the attack, you get a +1 bonus to attack.

I have considered allowing non-finesse weapons to be made out of mithril and be treated as a size category larger for damage (more metal, same weight).

I made it a rule that elven whateverblades have to be made of mithril.

[Escheton]

getting the benefit of a feat on an item costs a minimum of 10k gp. RAW
monkey grip, weapon finesse, ewp elven courtblade are feats
mithril costs way less
redundant line is redundant

[Divide by Zero]

getting the benefit of a feat on an item costs a minimum of 10k gp. RAW
monkey grip, weapon finesse, ewp elven courtblade are feats
mithril costs way less
redundant line is redundant

This entire discussion is about house rules, so arguing RAW is pointless. Also, crappy feats should cost less, and Monkey Grip and EWP are crappy feats. Also also, I haven't seen that rule before. Where is it?

[Anxe]

Whenever I homebrew a monster I make it's damage reduction penetrable by mithral just to give the players a reason to have mithral weapons. They don't go get mithral weapons though. They just deal more damage than the DR and kill the monster that way. Sigh...

That's an example of why one would make a mithral weapon. The one size lighter idea is a good one too.

[term1nally s1ck]

A +1 weapon replicated weapon focus AND weapon specialisation. It doesn't cost 20,000gp. (unless it's made of something REALLY weird.)

[JonestheSpy]

Whenever I homebrew a monster I make it's damage reduction penetrable by mithral just to give the players a reason to have mithral weapons.

Yeah, being a Tolkien fan, I kinda think mithril should be a bit more special tan "it's lighter".

If one was trying to replicate LotR's ubermetal, it would probably combine the properties of DD's mithril and adamantine, with higher DR and something like Keenness as well.

[Kalirren]

I've always ruled mithril weaponry as having three effects:
1) being lighter
2) any one-handed weapon becomes finessable
3) counts as magic and silver for overcoming DR.

Great for sneaking around detect magic with, if your wizard didn't get Nystul's Magic Aura. Also great for low-magic campaigns, if you make special materials the only way to overcome DR/magic.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

getting the benefit of a feat on an item costs a minimum of 10k gp. RAW
The final cost must be adjusted to the actual effect of the item. RAW that trumps the above RAW.

And, as has been pointed out, this is not a RAW discussion anyway.

[Escheton]

The final cost must be adjusted to the actual effect of the item. RAW that trumps the above RAW.

And, as has been pointed out, this is not a RAW discussion anyway.

well, duh

it's good to mention how the actual game mechanics usually deal with such a thing to not go overboard with this fluff to crunch conversion.
but yeah whatever

[Hurlbut]

I've always ruled mithril weaponry as having three effects:
1) being lighter
2) any one-handed weapon becomes finessable
3) counts as magic and silver for overcoming DR.

Great for sneaking around detect magic with, if your wizard didn't get Nystul's Magic Aura. Also great for low-magic campaigns, if you make special materials the only way to overcome DR/magic. Mithril in PF by RAW counts as silver for overcoming DR

[Shhalahr Windrider]

t's good to mention how the actual game mechanics usually deal with such a thing to not go overboard with this fluff to crunch conversion.
And the actual mechanics say the pricing guidelines are really loose and just very general starting points. Most items need their price adjusted either upwards or downwards based on actual effect. It’s one of the reasons you aren’t getting a command-word gem of cure light wounds for just 1,800 gp.

[KiltedGrappler]

I ruled that they were finesseable and gave a +2 bonus to your initiative due to their lighter weight.

[Eldan]

I'm not sure if they +2 initiative is a good idea, though. Does a wizard holding a mithril dagger also get a +2 to initiative while casting his spells?

[KiltedGrappler]

I'm not sure if they +2 initiative is a good idea, though. Does a wizard holding a mithril dagger also get a +2 to initiative while casting his spells?

Of course not. None of my players ever let rules come before common sense. When I decided that, they all understood that the +2 to initiative was because of the weapon being lighter and faster to use when being swung/thrusted with. If anyone had tried pulling a "Flat bonus to initiative means I get it even if I'm casting a spell/running/whatever" the whole table would have laughed at them and called them out on their stupidity.

[Coplantor]

Call me a catgirl killer, but wouldn't some weapons, specially blunt weapons, be less efective damage wise if the weight is reduced?:smallconfused:

[Eldan]

Of course. What I meant wasn't that it wouldn't work at your table, just that the way you said it, it wouldn't work as a hard rule. Many of my house rules are like that, stated in a way like "okay, you do that", and usually that worked well, the other players didn't then try and take advantage of it.
If, however, we wanted to do a new write-up of mithril in this thread, it wouldn't work and would have to be specified. Something like "you gain a +2 bonus to initiative in turns when you make at least one attack with the mithril weapon". Which opens an entirely other can of worms, sadly: your initiative would probably change depending on what you did that turn, which adds a lot of bookkeeping. (I.e. whenever the +2 would actually have an effect on the initiative order, you would be before or after the opponent depending on what you did.)

[Gametime]

One thing about the original proposal that I didn't see brought up anywhere is that everyone will have reach, thanks to one-handed polearms. This probably won't be a huge deal, but it's something to very seriously consider.

One-handed reach is actually already possible, thanks to the kusari-gama, but a lot of people don't know about that and a lot more don't allow it anyway.

[Eldan]

The Kusari-gama isn't two-handed? Huh. I always thought it was. It makes more sense that way, at least to me.

[hamishspence]

I imagined it as one of Kratos's Blades of Chaos- a blade on a chain (hence does slashing damage, is wielded one handed, has reach.)

The real thing probably was nothing like that though.

Still- twin Kusuri-gamas wielded like the Blades of Chaos make for an interesting image.

[KiltedGrappler]

Of course. What I meant wasn't that it wouldn't work at your table, just that the way you said it, it wouldn't work as a hard rule. Many of my house rules are like that, stated in a way like "okay, you do that", and usually that worked well, the other players didn't then try and take advantage of it.
If, however, we wanted to do a new write-up of mithril in this thread, it wouldn't work and would have to be specified. Something like "you gain a +2 bonus to initiative in turns when you make at least one attack with the mithril weapon". Which opens an entirely other can of worms, sadly: your initiative would probably change depending on what you did that turn, which adds a lot of bookkeeping. (I.e. whenever the +2 would actually have an effect on the initiative order, you would be before or after the opponent depending on what you did.)

Ah, ok. I misunderstood the direction of your comment. My apologies. House rules at any table are a constantly evolving beast to begin with.

[Eldan]

No apologies necessary, that was just badly worded.

[Fitz10019]

I've been toying with the idea that any 1-lb weapon (like a dagger) is automatically a Dex-based attack (finessed w/o a feat), and therefore any normally-two-pound-weapon-but-made-from-mithril weapon (like a rapier) is also a Dex-based attack. The Weapon Finesse feat would add 2 lbs to the character's Dex-based attack range. I haven't implimented it or tested it -- just thinking about it.

I thought Escheton's comment was valid as a counterweight to some of these ideas. I worry about helping Dex builds while not helping Str builds and the whole slippery slope.


A +1 weapon replicated weapon focus AND weapon specialisation. It doesn't cost 20,000gp. (unless it's made of something REALLY weird.)
That's not valid as the effect of those feats stack with the magic bonus of a +1 weapon.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I thought it's a little funny that someone would use Finess with a Mithril Heavy Mace

anyway. As for the "Mithril Weapon are considered 1 category lighter", then it keeps going into my abuse Oversized build:

1- Goliath can weild +1 size = Large Greatsword, 2d8
2- Monkey Grip: + 1 size = Huge Greatsword: 2d10
3- Oversize Weapon (weapon enchantment) : + 1 size = Gargantuant Greatsword: 3d8
4- Enlarge Person: +1 size = Colossal Greatsword : 3d10
5- Mithril weapon (?) : +1 size = Colossal+ Greatsword: I really stopped caring at that point

[Spiryt]

I thought it's a little funny that someone would use Finess with a Mithril Heavy Mace


Why? Putting asside the fact that the whole concept of "finesseable" (strenght or dexterity, is typical WotC, there's no reason for mace to be less "finessable" than kukri.

If it should exist, it should simply be option to use any weapon using Dexterity score, without option of Power Attack to compensate.

[Coplantor]

I thought it's a little funny that someone would use Finess with a Mithril Heavy Mace

anyway. As for the "Mithril Weapon are considered 1 category lighter", then it keeps going into my abuse Oversized build:

1- Goliath can weild +1 size = Large Greatsword, 2d8
2- Monkey Grip: + 1 size = Huge Greatsword: 2d10
3- Oversize Weapon (weapon enchantment) : + 1 size = Gargantuant Greatsword: 3d8
4- Enlarge Person: +1 size = Colossal Greatsword : 3d10
5- Mithril weapon (?) : +1 size = Colossal+ Greatsword: I really stopped caring at that point

I see your goliath and I raise you a thri kreen with imperial fighter and a DM that allows it to stack with monkey grip.

Can I hear Colossal ++ ladies and gentlemen? Oh yeah, in yo face cloud strife!

[Starbuck_II]

I thought it's a little funny that someone would use Finess with a Mithril Heavy Mace

anyway. As for the "Mithril Weapon are considered 1 category lighter", then it keeps going into my abuse Oversized build:

1- Goliath can weild +1 size = Large Greatsword, 2d8
2- Monkey Grip: + 1 size = Huge Greatsword: 2d10
3- Oversize Weapon (weapon enchantment) : + 1 size = Gargantuant Greatsword: 3d8
4- Enlarge Person: +1 size = Colossal Greatsword : 3d10
5- Mithril weapon (?) : +1 size = Colossal+ Greatsword: I really stopped caring at that point

Morbo says: Powerful Build and Monkey grip do not work that way! They are the same thing (with PB being no penalties).

[SolkaTruesilver]

Why? Putting asside the fact that the whole concept of "finesseable" (strenght or dexterity, is typical WotC, there's no reason for mace to be less "finessable" than kukri.

If it should exist, it should simply be option to use any weapon using Dexterity score, without option of Power Attack to compensate.

Because the whole point of a mace is to smash somebody hard with a heavy weight.

The whole point of that weapon is to use kinetic energy. You cannot "finess" it the way you can do a sword.

[Human Paragon 3]

I would make it so a one handed mithral weapon counts as a light weapon whenever it would be beneficial, and that all mithral weapons are finessable.

[Spiryt]

Because the whole point of a mace is to smash somebody hard with a heavy weight.

The whole point of that weapon is to use kinetic energy. You cannot "finess" it the way you can do a sword.

The whole point of the swords is to cut or stab something to.

How strong, quick, and skilled with weapon you are determines how well you can smash something, find a gap, opening, strike with proper timing, change the grip.

To quote certain live steel braw reencator :The mace requires different technique, not "lesser" technique.

Even smashing really hard big stationary target requires good deal of "Dexterity" too, quickness, coordination et cetera.

[SolkaTruesilver]

The whole point of the swords is to cut or stab something to.

How strong, quick, and skilled with weapon you are determines how well you can smash something, find a gap, opening, strike with proper timing, change the grip.

To quote certain live steel braw reencator :The mace requires different technique, not "lesser" technique.

Even smashing really hard big stationary target requires good deal of "Dexterity" too, quickness, coordination et cetera.

But you can bypass people's defense and kill somebody with a sword using minimal strenght. Irana thought us so.

If you want to hurt somebody with a mace, there isn't a thousand way you can apply your force. The whole point is Mass x Velocity. If I wanted focused pressure in a single point, I'd got for a sword. If I wanted focused pressure in a line, I'd go for an axe.

Seriously, can you attack with "finess" with a flail? I can't imagine how'd you do that

[hamishspence]

Targeting very small, vital areas, might be a part of mace fighting- the highly dexterous should benefit from that.

Maybe all weapons should benefit from both- Dex for accuracy, Str for extra damage.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Because the whole point of a mace is to smash somebody hard with a heavy weight.
And you still have to aim for a spot where the target’s armor isn’t going to get in the way. Don’t worry, you still use Strength to find out how good of a smash it was in calculating damage.

[hamishspence]

On the minus side, this would make it harder to specialize in Dex or Str completely, since you'd always be giving something up.

Still, might make sense- most of the traits associated with Dex (good reflexes, aim, dodging skills) seem like they'd work for almost any melee fighter.

[Spiryt]

But you can bypass people's defense and kill somebody with a sword using minimal strenght. Irana thought us so.

If you want to hurt somebody with a mace, there isn't a thousand way you can apply your force. The whole point is Mass x Velocity. If I wanted focused pressure in a single point, I'd got for a sword. If I wanted focused pressure in a line, I'd go for an axe.

Seriously, can you attack with "finess" with a flail? I can't imagine how'd you do that

Did you ever hit yourself with axe?

I did, plenty times, (fortunately blunt side) and minimal force really left my leg messed.

I don't get a point about ways too much. You can generally thrust, slice, cut with sword. Of course with different motion you can combine, especially cut and slice.

You can generally stab or bash with, mace using differnt angles motions and stuff. The impact causes something else than sword , so what?

And flail is, if anything more "finesseable" than mace. You can do tricky things with using flexible chain.

[Quietus]

I thought it's a little funny that someone would use Finess with a Mithril Heavy Mace

anyway. As for the "Mithril Weapon are considered 1 category lighter", then it keeps going into my abuse Oversized build:

1- Goliath can weild +1 size = Large Greatsword, 2d8
2- Monkey Grip: + 1 size = Huge Greatsword: 2d10
3- Oversize Weapon (weapon enchantment) : + 1 size = Gargantuant Greatsword: 3d8
4- Enlarge Person: +1 size = Colossal Greatsword : 3d10
5- Mithril weapon (?) : +1 size = Colossal+ Greatsword: I really stopped caring at that point

Ignoring the fact that Monkey Grip and Powerful Build don't stack, you're increasing the damage wrong anyway. Take a look at the chart on this page : http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm

A Colossal greatsword (which is what you'd have, since goliath/MG don't stack) is 8d6 damage. Not 3d10.

I seem to remember something about the dice going up in fours from there, for 12/16/etc...

[Coplantor]

You knwo what's the most fun? That acording to the rules, after all those weapon size increases, you still get no reach to your attack.

EDIT: Also, my threi kreen's colossal++ greatsword would deal 16d6 dmg:smallbiggrin:

[SolkaTruesilver]

You knwo what's the most fun? That acording to the rules, after all those weapon size increases, you still get no reach to your attack.

EDIT: Also, my threi kreen's colossal++ greatsword would deal 16d6 dmg:smallbiggrin:

I'm trying to remember an anime or video game where somebody with a HUUUGE sword couldn't hit someone farther than 3 m afar

[Hurlbut]

Just realized something. The Mithril does *not* shrink the size by raw, it simply make the item lighter. This doesn't mean that you can wield a weapon one handed when it's supposed to be wield 2 handed. This requirement isn't soley due to the weight of the weapon but how it needed to be wielded.
The same amount of the mithril used in a longword is about same as the amount of iron used in the longsword, the difference is that the mithril is lighter for the same volume.


Giving mithril weapons finessable doesn't make sense however as most finessable weapons are generally small weapons that are more maneuverable than bigger weapons. Take a look at the shortspear and the handaxe. The handaxe is light weapon yet it weight same as the shortspear, a one handed weapon. As you can see there, whenever it's finessable or not is not due to the weight, but how maneuverable it is.