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View Full Version : Questions about Master Spellthief feat and Familiars



Caboose00
2010-04-21, 06:00 AM
I am in the process of adding multi-class levels to my sorcerer but, I am uncertain as to how some rules will work regarding the Master Spellthief feat from Complete Scoundrel and the abilities of a familiar. For purposes of favored class I am a human, my sorcerer level will always be my highest class.

First, as it goes in the Master Spellthief feat, spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels stack for caster level on all arcane spells. My concern with that is, will a Sorcerer/8, Spellthief/3, Hexblade/4 (the last two classes taken slowly so as to avoid multi-classing penalties) leave me with a caster level of 11 for my sorcerer spells and a caster level of 7 for my hexblade spells, or leave me with a total caster level of 15 for all arcane spells?

Second, I have taken the Dragonblood Sorcerer racial substitution levels from Races of the Dragon, so I have lost the ability to acquire a familiar as a base level one sorcerer. A hexblade of fourth level however, is given the ability to acquire a familiar as though he is a sorcerer of three levels lower. In the Player's Handbook it says that the levels from multiple classes that are entitled to familiars will stack in order to determine the abilities of the familiar that are dependent on the master's level. Would this mean that my sorcerer and hexblade levels would stack for my familiars abilities, or did me taking the racial substitution levels ruin that chance?

I would really appreciate any help that can be given to me on this subject. I thank you for your time.

Keld Denar
2010-04-21, 06:10 AM
First, as it goes in the Master Spellthief feat, spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels stack for caster level on all arcane spells. My concern with that is, will a Sorcerer/8, Spellthief/3, Hexblade/4 (the last two classes taken slowly so as to avoid multi-classing penalties) leave me with a caster level of 11 for my sorcerer spells and a caster level of 7 for my hexblade spells, or leave me with a total caster level of 15 for all arcane spells?
Your first assumption is close. You'll have a CL of 11 for sorcerer spells (with the spells known and spells per day of an 8th level sorcerer), and a CL of 5 for Hexblade spells, because Hexblades have a CL of HALF of their level. Spellthief would apply to each seperately. It does get kinda funky when you have dependant caster levels like Ur-Priest or Sublime Chord in their though. Thoses would actually cause you to add your ST levels twice, as they would apply once to the base casting class, and once to the dependant casting class (which is based on the base casting class). Its kinda wonky, but thats how it works.



Second, I have taken the Dragonblood Sorcerer racial substitution levels from Races of the Dragon, so I have lost the ability to acquire a familiar as a base level one sorcerer. A hexblade of fourth level however, is given the ability to acquire a familiar as though he is a sorcerer of three levels lower. In the Player's Handbook it says that the levels from multiple classes that are entitled to familiars will stack in order to determine the abilities of the familiar that are dependent on the master's level. Would this mean that my sorcerer and hexblade levels would stack for my familiars abilities, or did me taking the racial substitution levels ruin that chance?

You would have the familiar abilities of a 1st level sorcerer. As a Dragonblooded Sorcerer, you no longer have a familiar as a class ability. Thus, it doesn't stack with any other classes that gain a familiar. You only have the familiar you gain as a Hexblade, and then only with its stunted level.

A wise option would be to trash your Hexblade familiar for the PHBII Alt Class Feature "Dark Companion", and then pick up a familar with the feat in Complete Arcane. This familiar is less disciminatory, and would have the abilities of a 15th level master, since all of your classes are considered "arcane spellcasting levels".

Caboose00
2010-04-21, 06:23 AM
Thank you very much for your suggestion. Will I be able to have both a dark companion and a familiar at the same time?

Keld Denar
2010-04-21, 06:25 AM
The short answer is: Yes.

The long answer is: None of your classes are considered familiar classes any more if you swapped out your familiars for other stuff. They are, however, still Arcane Spellcasting Classes (only req for Obtain Familiar, its in Complete Arcane, go look it up for exact wording). If you spend the feat, you get the familiar, regardless of what any of your other classes do or grant or don't grant.

Caboose00
2010-04-21, 06:30 AM
I apologize, but I believe that I need to be a little bit clearer on the last question.

Would I be able to have a dark companion and a familiar out simultaneously?

Keld Denar
2010-04-21, 06:33 AM
Yes. Neither says anything about being mutually exclusive.

In fact, you could have a familiar, an animal companion, a dark companion, a special mount, a demonic companion, a shadow companion, a cohort, a handful of followers, a dozen summoned animals, a few controlled undead, and a partridge in a pear tree if you really tried. Your turn would take 20 minutes just to roll the dice, but there is no rule that says you can't have all of those things at some point.

Caboose00
2010-04-21, 06:36 AM
Thank you so very much for all your helpful advice.

You have made me a very happy player while at the same time making me an enormous pain in the side of my DM.

Keld Denar
2010-04-21, 06:38 AM
No problem! Its not like I have anything better to do at 5 AM....

oh wait...ZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

Caboose00
2010-04-21, 06:41 AM
I should have been asleep hours ago myself. I've just been wanting to get these things clear and I was busy reading the forum rules prior to posting my questions.