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CockroachTeaParty
2010-04-21, 06:46 PM
It would appear the Gaseous Form spell is designed as a way to either bypass obstructions, or as an escape method.

However, after recent considerations, I've started to question the spell's use as an escape mechanism. primarily after experiences with it in the Savage Tide adventure path.

Ahead be spoilers:


The first major boss of the game, Rowyn, is the head of the Lotus Dragons thieves guild. She faces the party at the end of the first chapter. She and her pet felldrak Gut-tugger put up a fight, but under the tactics section, it says that "when reduced below 15 hp, Rowyn drinks her potion of Gaseous Form and escapes."

Both in my RL group, and in playtesting, Rowyn has never escaped. She always dies, actually.

This is problematic, since she has a fun role in the third chapter as a vengeful stowaway.

First of all, she does not have Quick Draw or a Handy Haversack. Retrieving the potion, and drinking it, both provoke attacks of opportunity. If she even survives drinking the potion, she then has a chance at escaping.

However, her speed is reduced to 10 ft. A fast-thinking party can still damage her with magic, such as Magic Missile. If they've somehow acquired a magic weapon, they can also still hurt her, since she's not actually incorporeal, has DR 10/magic, and actually has a lower AC in gaseous form. Heck, even a 2-handed weapon and some Power Attack action can overcome DR 10/magic and do her in.

I suppose as DM I could just say she escapes regardless of what the PCs do, but the simulationist in me likes to see the dice fall where they may.

A potion of Blink seems like a better option, since she could run through walls, and has a miss chance, which is better than DR. Plus, her speed is not reduced.


Regardless of whether you bothered to read any of that, I wonder what other people's experience with the Gaseous Form spell has been. When has it been useful? Is it mostly just ignored? What's up with vampires?

Starbuck_II
2010-04-21, 06:54 PM
It would appear the Gaseous Form spell is designed as a way to either bypass obstructions, or as an escape method.

However, after recent considerations, I've started to question the spell's use as an escape mechanism. primarily after experiences with it in the Savage Tide adventure path.

Ahead be spoilers:


The first major boss of the game, Rowyn, is the head of the Lotus Dragons thieves guild. She faces the party at the end of the first chapter. She and her pet felldrak Gut-tugger put up a fight, but under the tactics section, it says that "when reduced below 15 hp, Rowyn drinks her potion of Gaseous Form and escapes."

Both in my RL group, and in playtesting, Rowyn has never escaped. She always dies, actually.

This is problematic, since she has a fun role in the third chapter as a vengeful stowaway.

First of all, she does not have Quick Draw or a Handy Haversack. Retrieving the potion, and drinking it, both provoke attacks of opportunity. If she even survives drinking the potion, she then has a chance at escaping.

However, her speed is reduced to 10 ft. A fast-thinking party can still damage her with magic, such as Magic Missile. If they've somehow acquired a magic weapon, they can also still hurt her, since she's not actually incorporeal, has DR 10/magic, and actually has a lower AC in gaseous form. Heck, even a 2-handed weapon and some Power Attack action can overcome DR 10/magic and do her in.

I suppose as DM I could just say she escapes regardless of what the PCs do, but the simulationist in me likes to see the dice fall where they may.

A potion of Blink seems like a better option, since she could run through walls, and has a miss chance, which is better than DR. Plus, her speed is not reduced.


Regardless of whether you bothered to read any of that, I wonder what other people's experience with the Gaseous Form spell has been. When has it been useful? Is it mostly just ignored? What's up with vampires?

I'd suggest Potion belt for the villian. It is cheap (10gp?) and free action to draw potion 1/rd.

Back to spell:
I expect this part-
pass through small holes or narrow openings, even mere cracks, with all it was wearing or holding in its hands, as long as the spell persist.
Is how she was expected to escape.

Are there cracks/narrow openings in the walls/floors/ceiling to escape?

CockroachTeaParty
2010-04-21, 07:03 PM
There are, but I believe they're a room over from the room where you fight her, so she's got at least a round of awkward, slow-motion vulnerability. It would be easy enough to add a chimney to the room in which you fight her, but again, assuming free action draw, standard drink, and move to flee, that movement's going to provoke.

Still, that potion belt's a good idea.

Anxe
2010-04-21, 07:03 PM
I had an experience with a bunch of vampires going into gaseous form with my group. The vampires were locked in a mansion contained within something like a portable hole, so the gas couldn't "escape" anywhere. It could only hide. They cast magic weapon on a mace and did away with the vamps for good. Since the goal of the mission was to kill the vampires I allowed that to work. Your goal seems to be to let the villain escape. I'd suggest you do so either by having her drink the potion sooner, or just have her not provoke attacks of opportunity when she gets the potion out and drinks it. Hell, she could just five foot step and ignore the attacks that way by RAW.

EDIT: As for getting out of the room in that form. She can just withdraw without provoking attacks and get away that way. If the players do swing at her while in that form, then you are in trouble by RAW. But again, this is assuming you rigidly follow the rules instead of allowing yourself to screw the rules and have fun outside of them.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-04-21, 07:08 PM
I had an experience with a bunch of vampires going into gaseous form with my group. The vampires were locked in a mansion contained within something like a portable hole, so the gas couldn't "escape" anywhere. It could only hide. They cast magic weapon on a mace and did away with the vamps for good. Since the goal of the mission was to kill the vampires I allowed that to work. Your goal seems to be to let the villain escape. I'd suggest you do so either by having her drink the potion sooner, or just have her not provoke attacks of opportunity when she gets the potion out and drinks it. Hell, she could just five foot step and ignore the attacks that way by RAW.

EDIT: As for getting out of the room in that form. She can just withdraw without provoking attacks and get away that way. If the players do swing at her while in that form, then you are in trouble by RAW. But again, this is assuming you rigidly follow the rules instead of allowing yourself to screw the rules and have fun outside of them.

The room in which they fight her is extremely close quarters. In most circumstances, she can't even take a 5 foot step. Also, withdrawing from combat is a full-round action: she'd have to stand there before she got the chance to escape.

It's mostly just rather poorly designed on Paizo's part, if you ask me. She's supposed to escape, but I just don't see it happening with her current tactics, by the RAW.

Anxe
2010-04-21, 07:18 PM
Maybe she has the potion set up in one of those beer hat things? Then she could drink it with a free action and escape!

CockroachTeaParty
2010-04-21, 07:19 PM
Maybe she has the potion set up in one of those beer hat things? Then she could drink it with a free action and escape!

I'm afraid that would subtract from her 'sexy bad-ass pirate queen' image. Perhaps if it was in a false tooth or something...

Foryn Gilnith
2010-04-21, 07:21 PM
Potion is actually an oil stored in a mechanical spreader-type thing on the thigh, perhaps?

Anxe
2010-04-21, 07:21 PM
You could give her one of those escape button things instead of the potion. The escape button is a button you sew onto your clothes. Ripping it off is an immediate action that releases a dimension door effect on your body. They're in Complete Scoundrel and cost 400GP I think.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-04-21, 07:26 PM
Ooh, forgot about those. We'll improve Savage Tide yet, we will we will!

Slayn82
2010-04-21, 09:22 PM
This spell used to be good, back in AD&D (the 2nd edition). Now, it has been nerfed to hell and back. Even the 3.0 version is better than the current.

Its main use is its large duration allowing to acess special, hard to reach, safe places, like panic rooms, throught small cracks and pipes. But you still need time to act. Also, it doubles as "panic neutralize poison". With weight activated traps, it could be deadly. One hall filled with non-magical crossbows, you luring the enemy there...

Against enemies with multiple, non magical attacks who deal small to medium damage, is a good panic button - the target will not receive criticals, and the damage reduction will help a lot. So, if you are fighting animals without enemy druids around, and you need to distract them, its the spell for you. If you use Intimidate checks in combat, its the spell for you.

Its still nice to have, to use with a familiar or Spectral Hand to touch an ally locked into a grapple, or something. If you can buy a couple of scrolls, it can come handy. Otherwise, dont bother.

It think this spell should give large bonnuses to hide in the middle of mists, and only reduce the movement by half. Also, i remember there used to be something about being mistaken for a ghost while under the effect of this spell. Dont know why they removed it.

Thurbane
2010-04-21, 09:53 PM
This spell used to be good, back in AD&D (the 2nd edition). Now, it has been nerfed to hell and back. Even the 3.0 version is better than the current.
Very much this.

A couple of guys in my group (most of us been playing since 1E AD&D) always keep a potion of Gaseous Form on hand as an escape clause. I keep having to point out to them that you can still be hit...they have a holdover in their minds from our AD&D days that it gives total invunlerability to most attacks.

Rainbownaga
2010-04-22, 12:11 AM
I had an experience with a bunch of vampires going into gaseous form with my group. The vampires were locked in a mansion contained within something like a portable hole, so the gas couldn't "escape" anywhere. It could only hide. They cast magic weapon on a mace and did away with the vamps for good. Since the goal of the mission was to kill the vampires I allowed that to work.

I know it's a little off topic, but what exactly is supposed to happen to vampires that take damage in gaseous form?

The Rabbler
2010-04-22, 12:19 AM
I know it's a little off topic, but what exactly is supposed to happen to vampires that take damage in gaseous form?

they take more damage and turn into another gaseous form:smallbiggrin:.

technically, 0 hp destroys undead (except vampires) so hitting them more wouldn't actually do anything. I think the idea of the gaseous form with the vampires was to make them very hard to trap, but still possible. they can go through cracks in anything, but if you stick them in an airtight room, they will be trapped completely. I don't remember if vampires die if they're away from their coffin for too long after they've been reduced to 0, but if not, you can always come back with some garlic and some stakes.