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Beelzebub1111
2010-04-21, 11:13 PM
Lets say that somebody has an AC of 27, +4 adamantine Body, +2 heavy steel shield, +1 dex. How do you counter something like that?

gdiddy
2010-04-21, 11:14 PM
Enerviation.

The Rabbler
2010-04-21, 11:19 PM
touch attacks and lots of them. if you want a build, try something along the lines of factotum/warblade/bloodstorm blade/master thrower

grab iaijutsu with factotum, get quick draw and you get tons of bonus damage with all of your thrown weapons and each one is treated as a touch attack.

AmberVael
2010-04-21, 11:25 PM
Area effects. Target effects. Things like breath weapons, fireballs, dominate person, magic missile, web, etc.

Claudius Maximus
2010-04-21, 11:26 PM
I agree with everything stated here. Touch attacks and targeted spells should work fine.

Where is the extra 10 AC coming from?

The Rabbler
2010-04-21, 11:28 PM
Where is the extra 10 AC coming from?

EDIT: nope, it looks like he was talking about the items themselves being enchanted. so the +4 adamantine body would be a +12 AC and the +2 shield would be +4 to AC.

Divide by Zero
2010-04-21, 11:29 PM
Where is the extra 10 AC coming from?

10, +4 adamantine body is 12 (adamantine is full plate), +2 heavy shield is 4, +1 Dex. That's 27.

Also, I think it's been covered. Go after his saves and touch AC.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-04-21, 11:32 PM
AC is but one form of defense. A weak one at that- it defends your Hit Points, which tend to be numerous, and you don't suffer from a lack of Hit Points until you run out entirely. Touch AC defends you from status effects which diminish your ability to fight. Saves defend you from status effects as well as instant-lose/death effects which make you lose.

AC is a great thing to pump if you don't understand how warriors truly win battles in D&D. Inevitably you must eliminate your foe's HP, yes, but battles are won and lost by the warriors' ability to fight. Attack that. A shaken, sickened foe in an Aura of Despair will fail most saves. A grappled, nauseated foe can take no actions (best low-level combo ever, by the way). A foe trading blows with your Summoned Celestial Bison is wasting his turns dealing with one third-level spell, while your party brings its might to bear.

Or, just buff/Debuff yourselves to high heavens. True Strike + Ray of Clumsiness basically guarantees an attack that reduces your opponent's AC by 3-5. True Strike means a near-auto hit.

mikej
2010-04-21, 11:32 PM
How do you counter something like that?

Rust Monster.

sonofzeal
2010-04-21, 11:35 PM
Rust Monster.

/thread :smallbiggrin:

Kylarra
2010-04-21, 11:36 PM
Rust Monster Dragon.fixed for you.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-04-21, 11:37 PM
Rust Monster.

Show me to waste paragraphs. :smallamused:

Cute_Riolu
2010-04-21, 11:39 PM
Nah, open a portal to the elemental plane of rust.

Gralamin
2010-04-21, 11:39 PM
You pretty much have a few options:
1) Destroy his equipment
2) Attack other defenses
3) Overpower his defense.

Number 3 is easiest done with true strike, or a law incarnate.

The Rabbler
2010-04-21, 11:42 PM
You pretty much have a few options:
1) Destroy his equipment
2) Attack other defenses
3) Overpower his defense.

Number 3 is easiest done with true strike, or a law incarnate.

his adamantine body is there because he's a warforged. it's hard to destroy someone's body without directly attacking it.

though rust is certainly a good way to do it.

AslanCross
2010-04-21, 11:45 PM
Touch attacks. Many of the worst spells, such as enervation, the orb spells and Ray of enfeeblement are ranged touch attacks.

Alternatively, use high HD, high strength monsters like giants. Many of them get huge beefy attack bonuses.

Yukitsu
2010-04-21, 11:46 PM
What level is this? Most of the time, my melee builds laugh at an AC 27 from 10 onwards.

Mastikator
2010-04-21, 11:47 PM
A brilliant weapon would turn that AC to a 11.

Also, getting high to hit isn't hard.
Lets say you're a 8th level warrior type, base str 18, +2 level, +4 bs-potion, and you have a +4 weapon.
That's a total of 19 to hit, or 60%/40% chance to hit against uber-armor-dude (full attack). With a +1 brilliant weapon, we're talking 95%/95% to hit. Or 90%/60% to hit with maximum power attack and full attack.
Lets say it's a +1 brilliant greataxe, you're dealing 1d12+16(pa)+10(str)+1(magic) (~33.5). Or an average damage of 58.5 per round.

(33.5 * 0.90) + (0.05 * 33.5 * 3) + (33.5 * 0.55) + (0.05 * 33.5 * 3) = 58.625
Explanation, average damage multiplied by likelyhood of damage, + likelyhood of crit and crit damage


Edit-
If you want it to be high, get some deflection, natural armor and combat expertize.
The combat expertize boosts the ac to 32, and a +2 deflection and natural (each) would be a 36 ac. If you can get a +4 adamantine full plate, you can get a +2 deflection ring and +2 protection amulet.

The Rabbler
2010-04-21, 11:50 PM
What level is this? Most of the time, my melee builds laugh at an AC 27 from 10 onwards.

let's be fair; he's actually using a shield after all.

The Rabbler
2010-04-21, 11:52 PM
A brilliant weapon would turn that AC to a 11.


brilliant weapons are a +4 enhancement. and to get it onto a weapon, you'd need a minimum of a +5 weapon. that's a lot of money being thrown into a weapon specifically to hit one person, especially if they're low enough that an AC of 27 is considered good.

Yukitsu
2010-04-21, 11:57 PM
let's be fair; he's actually using a shield after all.

Well sure, but BAB 10+ at least +4 stat +1 mastercrafted weapon is a +15 without even really trying, only spending about 400 gp by level 10. I could take weapon focus and hit half the time on my primary, and most people would say that if that's all I had, I wasn't trying very hard.

A good counter to an AC build shouldn't hit all the time, and not necessarily even most of the time, if that's what the player wanted to make. Hitting on a 15 would be perfectly acceptable, and still fully capable of beating down a turtle.

Mastikator
2010-04-22, 12:03 AM
Yeah I know, but a regular +4 weapon that's not specified for the target but just uh "standard" is still a 60%/40% chance to hit.
The weapon costs 32k and the armor costs 29k.

The Rabbler
2010-04-22, 12:03 AM
maybe we do actually need the level of the character. and perhaps the level of challenge you're looking for in this.

that's some pretty advanced armor to have at low levels, but the AC itself is too low for the higher levels... are you guys by chance running a high-gold campaign?

Gralamin
2010-04-22, 12:08 AM
his adamantine body is there because he's a warforged. it's hard to destroy someone's body without directly attacking it.

though rust is certainly a good way to do it.

Another way is dispel magic: It can effectively remove the items magic for a fight, making it much easier.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-04-22, 12:09 AM
Wraithstrike is a 2nd level spell which negates and bypasses AC.

1 level dip in Warlock does the same

1 level dip in Pyrokeneticist also does the same

There's many stupidly simple ways to get touch attacks, which completely bypass and negate AC

The Rabbler
2010-04-22, 12:12 AM
Yeah I know, but a regular +4 weapon that's not specified for the target but just uh "standard" is still a 60%/40% chance to hit.
The weapon costs 32k and the armor costs 29k.

the armor costs 16k. the adamantine body is from his first level feat; he gets it free. all he did was enhance it with +4.

Mastikator
2010-04-22, 12:14 AM
There's a feat that turns full plates into adamantine full plates?

Divide by Zero
2010-04-22, 12:22 AM
There's a feat that turns full plates into adamantine full plates?

For warforged, yes.

The Rabbler
2010-04-22, 12:23 AM
There's a feat that turns full plates into adamantine full plates?

no, the character is a warforged. warforged lose the ability to wear armor, but they have built-in armor. at level 1, you can pick up a feat that changes the details of that armor; in this case, the adamantine body feat which baisically turns the warforged default armor into adamantine full plate. you can only pick up these feats at level 1.

the armor can never be removed, but it can be enchanted as normal. what he did was he took the feat and enchanted the armor later.

ungulateman
2010-04-22, 12:48 AM
Attack their Fort / Ref / Will scores instead? :smallconfused:

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-04-22, 12:53 AM
Attack their Fort / Ref / Will scores instead? :smallconfused:

Or simply use touch attacks and avoid all of them at the same time...

Eldariel
2010-04-22, 02:35 AM
Honestly, a level 8 Orc Barbarian can have 8 BAB + 10 Str (22 base, +2 levels, +4 rage, +2 item; could have +2 Furious Weapon too) + 1-2 weapon without even trying. Charge and you're looking at +22 to Hit already. Improved Trip is a Touch Attack and if he's Enlarged, the +19 Str-check means he succeeds almost always; this gives him effective +26 to hit. You can even afford some Power Attack in there, even with Whirling Frenzy.

Level 8 Orc Frenzied Berserker would have 22 + 2 levels + 4 rage + 6 frenzy + 2 item + 2 furious weapon for Str 38 while Raging and Frenzying; +14 to hit just from there. In addition, he could intimidate the guy when initiating Rage.


So while useful against melee warriors, it's far from an impregnable wall.

Farlion
2010-04-22, 02:43 AM
Ray of enfeeblement, Ray of exhaustion, just about anything that lets you make a touch attack and lowers his attributes. Or go for chilling touch, with only 12 dex, that should be a piece of cake =)

Cheers,
Farlion

Person_Man
2010-04-22, 08:52 AM
I'm with Eldariel on this. A full BAB class with decent Str (or Dex) and one or two miscellaneous buffs and/or modifiers should have no trouble hitting him.

Soranar
2010-04-22, 09:03 AM
if you're a wizard orbs are touch attacks I believe

there's always a ton of AoE spells that don't require targeting

and the ever useful magic missile

if you're a fighter you should just be able to hit him normally, as stated above, although you might want to trip him and flank him anyway just to be sure

a small fighter can use the small people feats and make him attack himself

a rogue should probably not attack him alone though

and you could always grapple him, probably the only option a monk has

Starbuck_II
2010-04-22, 09:10 AM
Lets say that somebody has an AC of 27, +4 adamantine Body, +2 heavy steel shield, +1 dex. How do you counter something like that?

1) Trip him. Trips care nothing to do with normal AC (only touch AC). That means +4 for everyone to hit them.

2) Aid Another: DC 10 attack roll. Adds +2 to someone.

So gang up on him, have everyone buff up one guys attacks.

Gnaeus
2010-04-22, 09:12 AM
Ignore him.

Kill the Wizard. Then the Cleric. Then the Rogue and all other party members. Then and only then you disarm or grapple him the tank and carry him away to a dungeon to spend a century or so lamenting a bad build.

Seriously, intelligent creatures should just fly out of reach of his sword and fight things that are actually a threat. If you really want to be nice to him you could have the monsters attack him once before they move on to the squishies, but assuming that the party looks like an adventuring party (some guys in robes, some guys in light armor, some guys with armor and holy symbols casting spells and your tank) there really isn't a reason for an intelligent foe to waste a single round on him.

Chen
2010-04-22, 09:26 AM
At a level where you have +4 items this doesn't, off-hand, seem like that high an AC.

As someone else said, unless the thing with ridiculously high AC is being a threat, intelligent monsters will just go after things that are more threatening first.

Starbuck_II
2010-04-22, 09:28 AM
Have an enemy bard?
Bards can buff up attk bonus on a group easily:
Granted, the best bonuses are good, there are still decent numbers for evil.

awa
2010-04-22, 12:08 PM
alchemist fire as long as your not level 2 it should be easy to afford in quantity and it's a touch attack.

Flanking and aid another actions can also drop ac by quite a bit (particularly if were talking about lots of weak enemies) a tangle foot bag will drop his ac by a few points and these are all things that can be done on the low end of the power scale to make low power critters able to hit high ac also.

Reynard
2010-04-22, 12:20 PM
Swordsage with the many Setting Sun throw maneuvers. Fling him around like a fool. Off of buildings, into pits, at other hostiles. Bonus points is that it'll knock hm prone as well.

Godskook
2010-04-22, 01:21 PM
Can we get more specifics on this? Like what level is he and do you have time to build a whole character with taking him out being among the reasons of the build?

For a dedicated build, try a DFA with entangling exhalation. No-save entanglement to anyone without evasion.

Panigg
2010-04-22, 02:23 PM
My fighter types tend to have that AC at about level 8-10. Works well against crits + many small mobs. Not that great on big guys, but that's why I got some enlarge potions.

He shouldn't be too good. If his AC at level 8 is 27, his attack should suffer at least a -3, which is a lot at that level.

Don't throw too many high hit monsters at him. This will make him feel as if you're doing it on purpose. Use movement and terrain control. Grease, web etc. That way it's still up to him if he succeeds on the saves and his money doesn't feel too wasted.

Darrin
2010-04-22, 03:53 PM
Unseen Servant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) + Feather Token: Swan Boat.
Unseen Servant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) + sack + 19 flasks of Acidic Fire (Eberron, 38 splash damage)
Unseen Servant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) + sack + 39 Firestones (Dragon Compendium, 39d6 fire damage no save).

I'm a little stuck on the Unseen Servant thing, aren't I? (I was going to suggest Sprayer + Aboleth Mucus, but I can't recall if Warforged breath or not.)

Beelzebub1111
2010-04-22, 04:00 PM
My fighter types tend to have that AC at about level 8-10. Works well against crits + many small mobs. Not that great on big guys, but that's why I got some enlarge potions.

He shouldn't be too good. If his AC at level 8 is 27, his attack should suffer at least a -3, which is a lot at that level.

Don't throw too many high hit monsters at him. This will make him feel as if you're doing it on purpose. Use movement and terrain control. Grease, web etc. That way it's still up to him if he succeeds on the saves and his money doesn't feel too wasted.
His Level is 5.

Eldariel
2010-04-22, 04:08 PM
His Level is 5.

His equipment is way above the level. That said, Orc Barbarian 5 could still reasonably expect to hit about ~80% of the time. Again, 30 Str (+2 item, Potion of Enlarge drunken before entering combat), 5 BAB, Mw. Weapon, Imp. Trip. His Trip-check is only +18, but that should still be enough against basically all PCs. His To Hit is 10 Str + 5 BAB + 1 Weapon - 1 Size + 2 Charge + 4 Trip = +21.

He could also pick some feats like Reckless Rage (+2 Str & Con, -2 AC), Weapon Focus (for example; there are betters but those are not even necessary) and so on for +2 more To Hit giving him +23 (after Trip, which very likely succeeds at +19).


That said, your Warforged's WBL is way over the level suggestions which is why run-of-the-mill CR 5 might have issues hitting him. Using one tough opponent as opposed to multiples, or using multiple small ones with group tactics (Aid Another, flanking, piling), or, as said a thousand times, using spells, touch attacks and company means he's still plenty vulnerable (low-level martial favorite for touch attacks is Grapple as it bypasses AC entirely; other is Alchemist's Fire which is effectively 2d6 damage and qualifies for Sneak Attack).

Mongoose87
2010-04-22, 04:21 PM
Emerald Razor is a 2nd level maneuver that makes a single melee attack a touch attack. Use that with power attack/leap attack and oneshot him.

Panigg
2010-04-22, 04:22 PM
Blowing 16k on +4 enchant is not going to help him much later on. Though I guess for level 5 it was quite clever.

He'll regret it when he's missing hits left and right tho.

Admiral Squish
2010-04-22, 04:30 PM
Somewhat of a thread hijack:

What do you do to counter a well-optimized defender-type?
Let's say, dwarven knight, maybe two levels of paladin for the saves boost, for the purposes of discussion.
Battle plate, tower shield, defending armor/shield spikes, a cloak/vest of resistance, and some other sort of bonus to saves.
Heavy armor optimization, Deflective armor, Parrying shield...

You get the picture. Massive saves, ridiculous touch AC, and lots of resistances, and ways to actually get and keep the enemy's attention.

Panigg
2010-04-22, 04:36 PM
Somewhat of a thread hijack:

What do you do to counter a well-optimized defender-type?
Let's say, dwarven knight, maybe two levels of paladin for the saves boost, for the purposes of discussion.
Battle plate, tower shield, defending armor/shield spikes, a cloak/vest of resistance, and some other sort of bonus to saves.
Heavy armor optimization, Deflective armor, Parrying shield...

You get the picture. Massive saves, ridiculous touch AC, and lots of resistances, and ways to actually get and keep the enemy's attention.

Bull Rush. Driving Attack. Anything that moves him away from where he wants to be.

You get one big guy that shoves him out of the way, while some smaller guys take on the rest of the party.

Boci
2010-04-22, 04:37 PM
Somewhat of a thread hijack:

What do you do to counter a well-optimized defender-type?
Let's say, dwarven knight, maybe two levels of paladin for the saves boost, for the purposes of discussion.
Battle plate, tower shield, defending armor/shield spikes, a cloak/vest of resistance, and some other sort of bonus to saves.
Heavy armor optimization, Deflective armor, Parrying shield...

You get the picture. Massive saves, ridiculous touch AC, and lots of resistances, and ways to actually get and keep the enemy's attention.

Lockdown/other movement restrictors? Also, how is he keeping tghe enemy's attention? Just knight's challange?

Gnaeus
2010-04-22, 04:42 PM
Enemies with AOEs just blast the entire area around him.

Enemies with high will saves will ignore his challenge.

With multiple enemies, he can only challenge one at a time, the otherscan just go around him.

Arguably, Challenge is a mind affecting ability, things like undead might be able to ignore it.

Enemies can run away even if hit by the challenge. Then come back with friends.

Eldariel
2010-04-22, 04:42 PM
Somewhat of a thread hijack:

What do you do to counter a well-optimized defender-type?
Let's say, dwarven knight, maybe two levels of paladin for the saves boost, for the purposes of discussion.
Battle plate, tower shield, defending armor/shield spikes, a cloak/vest of resistance, and some other sort of bonus to saves.
Heavy armor optimization, Deflective armor, Parrying shield...

You get the picture. Massive saves, ridiculous touch AC, and lots of resistances, and ways to actually get and keep the enemy's attention.

Well, he doesn't have ways to actually keep the enemy's attention. It's an easy enough Will-save to ignore him. And Knight's Challenge doesn't restrict most actions anyways. Basically, you kill the party and leave him looking dumb.

Though, his Touch AC is hardly amazing; none of the stuff applies to it except for Shield Warded Tower Shield. That's easily penetrable. Honestly, the best solution, if you just for whatever reason have to kill him, is either save bombardment (he'll fail one eventually) or (Quickened) True Strike + Touch Attacks. Enervate him a bit and he'll soon be begging for his life force back. Hell, a Wand of True Strike is plenty affordable early on; since his offense is very unimpressive, just Enervate him.

And if you're a melee type, you should just maximize your number of attacks, PA for full and hope for 20s if you only hit on 20s anyways. TWF with your untrained unarmed strikes and two-handed weapon (his AoOs hardly even matter, they're poor), Fight Defensively for some extra AC, if you have Combat Expertise, pull that for full too, etc. Or, if you want to, you could just try the grapple-thing as that again negates his AC.

AoE effects are likely quite functional against him, and later on, you get access to better no-roll stuff (though outside Core, you get it somewhat earlier; in Core, I think Cloudkill is the first true no-save effect - note that he has no defenses against Dispels on his items so you can just get rid of his key defensive items and then have whatever effect you enabled kill him before its functionality returns).


But yeah, martial types without access to "limit breakers" like True Strike have great difficulty hitting him efficiently. A sufficiently well-built Barbarian will hit-or-grapple-or-whatever him though, since the Dwarf isn't a caster. And with access to ToB, Emerald Razor on full BAB high To Hit types will work just fine. Rabid Wolf Strike is another nice level 2 option.

Beelzebub1111
2010-04-22, 05:35 PM
His equipment is way above the level.
Yeah, that was totally my fault. There was a tournament, I let them bet 500 on a match when I should have limited it at 100. I rolled randomly to see what level artificer they could find in sharn and it turned up 12. so...yeah. That's never going to happen again.

Just last night he took out a megaraptor all by himself (well, technically he did have a Carver mount) It was only hitting him on twenties. I'm going for some villains next week for another character's plot-thread. Maybe I can work out something there to teach him a lesson that AC isn't everything.

Eldariel
2010-04-22, 05:38 PM
Yeah, that was totally my fault. There was a tournament, I let them bet 500 on a match when I should have limited it at 100. I rolled randomly to see what level artificer they could find in sharn and it turned up 12. so...yeah. That's never going to happen again.

Just last night he took out a megaraptor all by himself (well, technically he did have a Carver mount) It was only hitting him on twenties. I'm going for some villains next week for another character's plot-thread. Maybe I can work out something there to teach him a lesson that AC isn't everything.

Class-leveled NPCs tend to be the trick. MM enemies are woefully magically inadequate, especially with the earlier MMs. Mostly, low-level casters don't really give a rat's ass about AC, low-level warriors tend to have enough tricks in their arsenal to hit straight through AC with sufficient effort and low-level sneaks toss Alchemist's Fires for SA from hiding.

So...yeah; every archetype has viable means of bypassing his AC. It's just that so many MM monsters fall under "big, dumb brawler with bad feat selection" that it might seem a bit better than it is. That said, careful not to overdo it; that AC is useful on these levels and martial opponents should have some difficulty against him or it'll...well, it kinda sucks if he doesn't get to use what he's invested in (as long as he has means to force opponents to face him at any rate; once that Megaraptor realizes he can't hit him, I'd just have it go after easier food).

Panigg
2010-04-22, 06:15 PM
Shield Warded Tower Shield.

Which doesn't work. Only buckler, light and heavy.

Yes, I know shield ward does not have that limitation, but shield spec does.

"Prerequisite: Proficiency with shields.
Benefit: Choose one type of shield from the following list: buckler, heavy, or light. When using a shield of the appropriare type, you increase its shield bonus to AC by 1."

I would houserule that a tower shield cannot be shield warded.

Eldariel
2010-04-22, 07:10 PM
Which doesn't work. Only buckler, light and heavy.

Yes, I know shield ward does not have that limitation, but shield spec does.

"Prerequisite: Proficiency with shields.
Benefit: Choose one type of shield from the following list: buckler, heavy, or light. When using a shield of the appropriare type, you increase its shield bonus to AC by 1."

I would houserule that a tower shield cannot be shield warded.

That's still a houserule; Shield Ward applies to all your shields, not just the one you Spec in. So yes, it does work. But frankly, if talking houserules, I'd rule the other way; Tower Shields already have massive penalties associated with them, so why the heck would one make them even more hosed? Shield Spec + Ward in them would at least grant an adventurer some real benefit for giving up the To Hit and using a shield and all. As it stands, they're only really used for the Total Cover-clause. I just don't see the rationale in making them even more useless than they already are especially since the proficiency is so hard to acquire and the best users tend to be non-proficient anyways.

Saint GoH
2010-04-22, 07:16 PM
Touch attacks work great... unless you have my issue. A VoP monk/invisible blade/duelist with uncanny dodge and a 32 ac at level 8. Touch attacks are worthless since he's all dex, and he is never flat footed. Even Im not cruel enough to set them up against a rogue 4 levels higher...

Admiral Squish
2010-04-22, 07:29 PM
In not sure what you mean by 'none of that applies'... Parrying shield is from LoM, and it adds your shield bonus to touch AC. Deflective armor similarly applies your armor bonus to touch AC, it's from RoS, though it does require a psionic focus to work, so you need three feats to do it.

Eldariel
2010-04-22, 07:58 PM
In not sure what you mean by 'none of that applies'... Parrying shield is from LoM, and it adds your shield bonus to touch AC. Deflective armor similarly applies your armor bonus to touch AC, it's from RoS, though it does require a psionic focus to work, so you need three feats to do it.

I know Parrying Shields work, skimmed over the Deflective Armor. I usually stick with Ghost Ward on them; tends to be plenty. But yeah, no matter the AC, it's possible to penetrate. All good defenses is lots of trouble for warriors though, that's true. Much less (though still a relevant amount) for casters.


Touch attacks work great... unless you have my issue. A VoP monk/invisible blade/duelist with uncanny dodge and a 32 ac at level 8. Touch attacks are worthless since he's all dex, and he is never flat footed. Even Im not cruel enough to set them up against a rogue 4 levels higher...

First, that guy must have pretty obscene stats. Second, he can't fly ever so he's mostly useless once the game takes to the air so let him have his fun while he can. Third, Barbarian 8 can still hit with some more work though the Touch to Trip is a bit harder already (still doable, mind).

Also, just simple no-save effects and True Strikes still tend to mean the AC isn't all that, not to mention Aid Another (it's powerful; few tiny-fine helpers with all folks tend to add numbers to hit; Animated Objects work particularly well though hold back so you don't end up with Nanobot-level stupidity). Bringing Law Devotion into play would make hitting even easier.

Of course, e.g. Abyssal Giants [Expedition to Demonweb Pits] have explosive rocks that offer no save when detonated in your square (due to the size of the explosion); stuff like that would also work. Doesn't matter if he saves when the save doesn't help.