OOTS #717 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Darius Midnite]

Haha! Sweet comic. :smallbiggrin: And how I pity those poor bastards, they got a rough deal. :smallsigh:

[TheFallenOne]

my time zone wins again :smallbiggrin:

[Secris]

Hah, so wrong, but so funny. And yeah, everyone having a twin, imagine that. I can't wait to meet the Empress.

[Darkfyre99]

Oh, those poor, abused slave drivers. *cries crocodile tears*

The next thing you know, they'll be demanding the government build them their own lavish guild hall.

Love the fact that the ytnuob retnuh doesn't believe that Elan's Nale's good twin. ^_^

[Gate_Keeper]

Keh, awesome work again. Here where I live [Finland] we have had more strikes past months than I can remember. So this is hilarious that OotSversum also has same problems.

Great comic all the way. :smallbiggrin:

[Bale Fire]

Poor slave drivers, power to the people!

[Kish]

Well, that answers the question of whether the Empire of Blood is an ironically named benevolent empire.

[Trixie]

"Esuxe"? :smallconfused:

EDIT: Ok, it was supposed to say "Esucxe". Just (IMHO) not that good execution of joke, here.

[RMS Oceanic]

Ooh, fancy palace.

Nice gag on this one, although I believe "esuxe" should be "esucxe".

[Kareasint]

The empire appears to be incredibly Lawful. That was a lot of paperwork requirements just to get into the door.

I suspect that divination spells will be used to verify identity before payment is rendered. No way that I am giving that much cash out without determining that the bounty hunter has the right guy.

Love the Slavedrivers Union reference. The Kobold is a little short though. Guess one slave has to work so that he can be seen.

[hamishspence]

Well, that answers the question of whether the Empire of Blood is an ironically named benevolent empire.

Yup.

I wonder what the Empress will be like? Mildly villainous, exceptionally villainous, an OK person trapped in a villainous system?

[Trixie]

Ooh, fancy palace.

SCRUBBED

The Voice of Mod: Rather than talk about how many people will make an infractable observation, how about just not making it?

[Kareasint]

"Esuxe"? :smallconfused:

In fact, the entire 7th panel is so garbled I can understand what he is saying.

"lles"?

"fo"?

I feel like my knowledge of English shrunk back to 10 years ago :smallsigh:

He was mocking Haley by spelling the words backwards.
Esuxe = exuse - might be a misspell in that panel.

lles = sell

Etc.

[Trixie]

Ach. I see now.

Okay, that makes sense, I tried to read it backwards but gave up after first word, that showed up garbled thanks to typo.

Still, I feel if was rather poor way to make such a joke, if he is going to say it backwards he should speak the whole thing backwards, not make awkward pause with filler between the "backwards" comment and flipped words, not to mention flipping only some of them, completely obfuscating his intention :smallsigh:

[The Pilgrim]

White collar strike! the Empress must be trembling in terror.

[factotum]

Upon reflection: isn't it supposed to say:

Excuse me, we have to lead you to the Sserpme of Dolb?

Instead? :smallconfused:

No, the words are reversed deliberately as a joke. "Excuse" is misspelt in its backwards form (should be esucxe), though. Sserpme of Doolb = Empress of Blood.

[warmachine]

A curious city. Both lizardmen and humans form the armed militia, implying there's little racism between the two. If there was disproportionate ratio amongst the slaves, it would worsen any tension. It seems the society is fair, even if brutal.

[SadisticFishing]

Trixie, he is mocking Haley, because he believes that she is making up Nale - and Nale is Elan backwards, which he noticed, so he started flipping his words.

I love it.

[Jimorian]

Took me a moment to get that panel as well. It wasn't until I noticed "esuxe: that it occurred to me to read those words backwards, heh.

IIRC, there were a couple of spelling errors in Haley's garbled speech as well. Hard to get good copy-editors for word tricks like this I guess. :smallwink:

[Agi Hammerthief]

evilly lawful empire?

[Killer Munchkin]

Not a lash 'til we see the cash.... priceless

[The Giant]

One of the problems with spell checkers is that they never seem to be able to check the words I made up.

The "esucxe" word has been fixed.

[AxeD]

Is it just me or are most of the slave drivers dressed like gimps? Or is that standard fare for their occupation?

[Trixie]

No, the words are reversed deliberately as a joke.

[shrug] Okay. Still, it works only in print - how exactly someone is supposed to say that? Unless you have a recorder, it is impossible to say anything backwards, at best you'll get something garbled not resembling the original at all.

I have to say anyone getting it "in comic" is an awful break of the fourth wall :smalltongue:

And still, flipping words randomly after a filler is going to kill the joke for practically everyone who isn't a native speaker, and for most of them, too. IMHO, of course.

[Wikimaster]

Fancy... The architecture evokes striking connection to a certain religion, huh.:

Or a certain tomb, typically described as "the most beautiful structure on Earth" and one of the most common tourist attractions described in brochures.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

[Surfing HalfOrc]

That's taking the Lawful part of Lawful Evil a bit too far!

So, if the OoTS ends up as an audio book, will we get the Backwards-masking conspiracy theories?

[Snake-Aes]

What are the chances? :D

[Trixie]

Or a certain tomb, typically described as "the most beautiful structure on Earth" and one of the most common tourist attractions described in brochures.

Let me point of this certain tomb was actually build as a functioning place of worship, of exact type I spoke earlier.

EDIT: Ok, we won't speak of it, then.

[treyh37]

that extra small kobold is awesome, hope we get to see more of him.

wouldn't mind seeing a master blaster reference with him

[Closak]

It's official, that lizardman is Spike's evil twin brother.

Seriously, dude reminds me of Spike a little to much...
And they are both lizardmen.
And both are smart-asses who keep spouting witty and often insulting comments at everyone and everything.

Now if only he suffers a grievous but non-fatal injury that permanently scars him...and suffers said injury in a humorous fashion as a result of insulting the wrong person, then i am definitely going to be convinced that he's related to Spike in some way...

[Wikimaster]

Let me point of this certain tomb was actually build as a functioning place of worship, of exact type I spoke earlier.

EDIT: Ok, we won't speak of it, then.

Sorry about that.

[ColourDeaf]

Ladies and gentlemen... That's Lawful Evil.

We may be irrevocably evil, but dammit, we're civil and ordered about it!

[Blaznak]

!ffuts ynnuF ?elaN/nalE nialpxe uoy od woh ,haeY

[Otter]

And that's why the Linear Guild can never be vanquished for good. Too much comedy gold.

[Faramir]

!ffuts ynnuF ?elaN/nalE nialpxe uoy od woh ,haeY

I thought Thog did a good job here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0367.html

[Tundar]

The watchman is hillarious. Papers must be in order, hehe.

[Arrowstorm122]

i didnt get the last joke there :smallconfused: ? well anyway, i cant wait to see if my theory is correct, or someone else is correct. im just waiting on it :smallbiggrin: . ooooh the mystery!

[Purgatorius]

Detail I like: The red cupols looking just like drops of blood - of course you've got to have those in the Empire of Blood.

[Sijo]

Eh, did not like this strip that much, especially after the last two. Maybe the Empress of Blood and her reasons for getting "Nale" will be more interesting. (At least it came out pretty soon after the last one.) :smallsmile:

Yup, that's ridiculously convoluted for an Evil Empire but hey, those of us who have had to deal with bureaucracies know what it feels like. :smalltongue: The Slaver Union is going too far, tho, if only because I don't find slavery funny at all.

The lizardman bounty hunter not believing Haley was logical but the backwards sarcasm was lame. Really, I can't wait for this guy to get what's coming to him.

[sihnfahl]

i didnt get the last joke there :smallconfused: ?
Which 'last joke'?

[Puschkin]

{Scrubbed}

[Haggis]

Best part about this comic. I'm rereading the comic and was on 511 (when the Haily and the Resistance are rescuing the slaves)

Oh and fight the power!

[deuxhero]

If a slave driver is made redundant through undead, he should be allowed to sit in a room and get 90% of his pay!

>_>

[Teddy]

Cool, new comic!


About the "lawful evil" empire ... me thinks this is another real life reference in addition to the Taj Mahal, I think The Giant is making fun of germany (world war era).

The fact that pretty much any lawful evil empire through the history has looked that way makes it less believable that this comic is a jab at any special one of them.

EDIT: Why are V, Elan and Enor darker than the rest of the characters?

[Arakune]

{Scrubbed}

I guess you are reading too much into that, and the empire doesn't look racist (yet) since you have humans, lizard man, kobolds and such living in harmony (socialy speaking).

[Jack of Spades]

{scrubbed}

[k_bukie]

One of the problems with spell checkers is that they never seem to be able to check the words I made up.

The "esucxe" word has been fixed.

What you need is the evil twin of spell checkers. :smallbiggrin:

[electricbee]

Funny strip. Like the pacing of the plot, feels like the story is moving steadily forward.

[electricbee]

What you need is the evil twin of spell checkers. :smallbiggrin:

Wouldn't that be a srekcehc lleps?

[Scarlet Knight]

"Slavedriver Union Local 934"? Hey, that's my boss ! :smalleek:

[DrGonzo]

{scrubbed}

Nah, I don't think so. These boards are well protected by the mods against things like real world politics. It's highly unlikely that the giant would suddenly change his opinion about this. The empire isn't a reference to Germany.

[Acero]

{Scrubbed}

okay... here is your evidence.

1) "a Generic Empire name"

2) Racism....Where?

3)Slave labor. No

4)Paperwork. Bounty hunters are tricky people. Be happy the guard didn't ask for the forms in triplicate

5)There is a spike on their helmet. Vikings had two of them.

6)The name of their leader. Empires are led by Emperors and Empresses. Doesn't say jack about chancellors.

[Killer Angel]

Nice LE place, it seems to me... :smallwink:

I wonder what kind of tactic will be used by V. to deal with the problem. :smallbiggrin:

[vartan]

Maybe the "Empress" is the result of some shifts in the political landscape- and it's actually a certain not-so-friendly outsider we have seen before that would be looking for Nale (and loving the fact that she could now torture Haley).

[hamishspence]

6)The name of their leader. Empires are led by Emperors and Empresses. Doesn't say jack about chancellors.

Yes- Chancellor is normally the name of an official working for the monarch- so isn't an indication of anything in particular.

Panel 4 mentions the chancellor- who is probably the empress's most senior official.

[DabblerWizard]

I wonder whether Haley's father is imprisoned in this land...

[Ellen]

Since the OotS universe is plot driven, there are probably a lot of evil twin/good twins out there.

But, come on, what decent bounty hunter is going to believe a guy obsessive enough about his good twin that everyone he hires is going to be some kind of evil double/inversion of the people his brother works with?

And, since Nale's already passed himself off as the good twin, it's not like we can't say that isn't something an evil twin would do if the situation called for it.:smallwink:

[hamishspence]

The letter originally said it was the Lord of Tyrinaria that imprisoned him.

However, that realm may have been dissolved and replaced with the Empire of Blood.

So it's possible.

[Zenos]

5)There is a spike on their helmet. Vikings had two of them.


Nope. The real vikings didn't have horns on their helmet.

[NerfTW]

[shrug] Okay. Still, it works only in print - how exactly someone is supposed to say that? Unless you have a recorder, it is impossible to say anything backwards, at best you'll get something garbled not resembling the original at all.

I have to say anyone getting it "in comic" is an awful break of the fourth wall :smalltongue:

And still, flipping words randomly after a filler is going to kill the joke for practically everyone who isn't a native speaker, and for most of them, too. IMHO, of course.

First, they break the fourth wall CONSTANTLY, so really, what strip are you reading? There have been multiple jokes about words being wrong when the only way to tell is by reading. "Xykon" "Zykon", for instance, and "hoard" "horde".

Secondly, comedy can't be funny to everyone at the same time. If you're reading a comic by an American English speaker, you're going to have to accept that you might not get a few jokes. It's a bit much to expect everything a writer writes to be culturally ambivalent. That's sort of the entire antithesis to art and culture.

[Ancalagon]

{Scrubbed}

[The MunchKING]

Ooh, fancy palace.

Nice gag on this one, although I believe "esuxe" should be "esucxe".

It took me a while to figure out he started randomly saying words backwards there.

[shadowkiller]

I don't see what those slave drivers have to complain about. They probably don't have any adventurers showing up when they start whipping an elderly slave.

[The MunchKING]

[shrug] Okay. Still, it works only in print - how exactly someone is supposed to say that? Unless you have a recorder, it is impossible to say anything backwards, at best you'll get something garbled not resembling the original at all.

You CAN't say esucxe?? Or Doolb?

Heck those words sound less garbled than half the fantasy names I read about. How do you pronounce an apostraphe anyway??

[ChrisFortyTwo]

This reminds me of many people I know:

"We'll do even less until our demands are met"

I also like how the kobold has a slave carrying him.

[Drolyt]

New Comic! Thanks Giant!

[Jokasti]

I thought a few words were misspelled for a sec, saw they were backwards. HIlarious

[DSCrankshaw]

Heh, I didn't think they'd believe the whole Nale/Elan story. Of course, if the Empress has actually met Nale, then 5 minutes of talking to Elan should be enough to tell her that something is wrong. That said, Nale was able to pass as Elan for several days, so they could believe it to be a clever trick.

[paddyfool]

That said, Nale was able to pass as Elan for several days, so they could believe it to be a clever trick.

Of course, Nale might have pretended to be a dumb dashing heroic type while visiting the Eripme fo Doolb as an additional get-the-OOTS ploy, and to practise his Elan role for later. It's not likely, but it is an evil convoluted plan laden with pitfalls, so it would certainly be in character.

[Aerysil]

"esucxe me"?

Man, the innuendos are getting out of control.

:smallbiggrin:

[Optimystik]

*Eyes the flurry of scrubbed posts curiously*


Well, that answers the question of whether the Empire of Blood is an ironically named benevolent empire.

We've also gotten a glimpse into the bounty hunters' alignment. I could see neutral bounty hunters not caring about slavery, but sympathizing with the slavers is a bit more negative.

[sihnfahl]

Of course, Nale might have pretended to be a dumb dashing heroic type while visiting the Eripme fo Doolb as an additional get-the-OOTS ploy, and to practise his Elan role for later.
Except neither Yikyik nor Zz'dtri were part of the Linear Guild after Nale's first run-in with the OOTS. And I don't see Yokyok pretending to be his father ...

And Pompey had a distinct gender...

[multilis]

[shrug] Okay. Still, it works only in print - how exactly someone is supposed to say that? Unless you have a recorder, it is impossible to say anything backwards, at best you'll get something garbled not resembling the original at all.
Same way you can say Nale and Elan... reverse the letters and then say it as now spelled. Harder to catch as brain has to flip vocal to letters and then back, but they also have more time on long walk then us just skimming a comic.

[brionl]

Maybe next time you should put "setouq" around the backwards words to make it more obvious he is emphasizing them differently.

Oh yeah:
/helenlovejoy

Won't somebody think of the Slavedrivers?!?!!

[Ridureyu]

Haha, and New York just narrowly avoided a doorman strike, too!

[ThePhantasm]

I like how the tower tops look like drops of blood.

[Fitzclowningham]

Except neither Yikyik nor Zz'dtri were part of the Linear Guild after Nale's first run-in with the OOTS. And I don't see Yokyok pretending to be his father ...


I think about the only thing Yokyok could pretend to be (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html) is his father.

'Cause they're both, y'know, dead.

[FoE]

So who wants to bet the Empress of Blood is Nale's wife, which in turn results in some hilarious romantic mix-up?

[sihnfahl]

I think about the only thing Yokyok could pretend to be (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html) is his father. 'Cause they're both, y'know, dead.
Nale made up a hidey-hole for 2 to 3 weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html) after hiring Pompey on. Yokyok wasn't even in the picture.

But, apparently, that time was spent setting up the trap. It was five weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html) of murder and mayhem on the Linear Guild's part.

I don't see how they even had time to get to the Empire of Blood to not only gain the Empress' trust, but then to turn around and betray it, while still having time to set up the traps and commit all the murders.

[ibiwan]

Originally Posted by Trixie
Upon reflection: isn't it supposed to say:

Excuse me, we have to lead you to the Sserpme of Dolb?

Instead? No, the words are reversed deliberately as a joke. "Excuse" is misspelt in its backwards form (should be esucxe), though. Sserpme of Doolb = Empress of Blood.

Actually I believe "upon reflection" it would say "Won fi ll'uoy excuse em, ew evah ot og sell uoy ot eht Empress of Blood"

[KeiranHalcyon]

Re: the architecture, it's classic fairy tale Arabian (a la Aladdin). Coloring the domes red to resemble blood drops is genius, though.

Between the desert, the architecture, and the lawful evil society, if I didn't know better, I'd say the OOTS has ended up in Calimshan. I wonder if we'll see someone named "Simetra Irertne"? (Probably not, since the Giant made that intellectual property joke a long time ago, but one can dream.)


*Eyes the flurry of scrubbed posts curiously*

Yeah, no kidding. Besides my knee-jerk "What did they say that was worth scrubbing?" reaction, I personally am against the Giant's censorship policies - but they are his boards, he pays for the bandwidth, so he can do as he pleases.

[archon_huskie]

You CAN't say esucxe?? Or Doolb?

Heck those words sound less garbled than half the fantasy names I read about. How do you pronounce an apostraphe anyway??

Well in Greek it makes the sound of an 'h'

so 'ekastos is pronounced hekastos and 'iva is pronounced hina.

[Callista]

...so you guys wanna start taking bets on how long it takes Haley and/or Elan to go ballistic (in a completely sneaky, rogue-ish fashion) about the slavery? Look at her face in that last panel... she is obviously NOT pleased.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Wouldn't it be hilarious of they reached the Sserpme who said.
"You idiot thats not Nale its his brother Elan."

I mean we are expecting some long drawn out mistaken identity plot but wouldn't it be funny if the guy who put the bounty out on Nale knew instantly that Elan wasn't him.

[Draz74]

Re: the architecture, it's classic fairy tale Arabian (a la Aladdin).

I agree that this was probably the intent ... but I'd also like to point out that onion domes were originally a Byzantine architectural style, and are currently quite common in Russia. So I think it's interesting/sad how fast people jumped to the conclusion of the palace being connected with a culture/group that aren't Byzantine or Russian in origin.

[JonestheSpy]

Man, that's a lot of scrubbed posts. You'd think people would learn by now...

[Faramir]

Ridiculously unlikely (but hopefully amusing) theory of the week:



After Elan left for bard camp his mother got lonely and reconciled with his father. She ruled by his side, eventually turning lawful evil herself. Learning from her spies that Nale had tried to kill Elan she decided that such treachery against their family could not go unpunished.

Unfortunately her husband disapproved of her wish to waste resources hunting down Nale so she killed him and then issued the reward notice for Nale.

A touching reunion awaits.

Elan: Mommmieeee!
Empress of Blood: Hello Elan dear, who is this red headed trollop you're hanging out with?
Haley: This is Haley Starshine, mommy.
Empress of Blood: Really? What a coincidence! I just freed your father from prison and married him after killing my first husband. You're now brother and sister!
Haley: What?
Elan: Aw mommy, that's such a cliche!

[pendell]

Love the blue lizard guy and his sarcastic backwards spelling. Must be INT of at least 13.



Between the desert, the architecture, and the lawful evil society, if I didn't know better, I'd say the OOTS has ended up in Calimshan. I wonder if we'll see someone named "Simetra Irertne"? [SIZE="1"](Probably not, since the Giant made that intellectual property joke a long time ago, but one can dream.)

Yeah, no kidding. Besides my knee-jerk "What did they say that was worth scrubbing?" reaction,


Trouble is, the Giant's work isn't just a one-shot joke strip any more. We've had moral ambiguity, conflicted heroes, tragedy, evil empires, overzealous good kingdoms, barbarian invaders, gods who make mistakes, demons, pacts with evil powers, the founding of new nations. All of this impinges directly on topics like politics and religion and the way we view these things in real life. So it's natural we'd want to discuss them -- but not here. For the good and sufficient reason that both religion and politics have a nasty habit of degenerating into horrible flame wars, and the Giant isn't interested in paying for his bandwidth to be eaten up by that stuff. We have enough problems accessing these boards as it is. It's not like there's a dearth of other places on the web specifically designed for such discourse.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Welf]

Poor slave drivers, power to the people!

...owner to the people's owners ;)

[The Giant]

I can't believe I have to post this.

No, there are no hidden implications about the uniforms or architecture or what-have-you of the Empire of Blood people. It's just invented costumes that look sort of spiky and mean, coupled with architecture that fits with a desert theme. It has no significance regarding any real world cultures that may have used similar helmets or towers. There is no real-world commentary going on here, at all.

So, let's all just drop the topic and move on.

No more posts trying to figure out what was scrubbed, either, please. This is not the place to discuss your approval (or lack thereof) of our policies.

[One Skunk Todd]

Re: the architecture, it's classic fairy tale Arabian (a la Aladdin). Coloring the domes red to resemble blood drops is genius, though.

I was just going to say it reminded me very much of the palace in the niddalA movie as well as the jaT lahaM. :) I can't imagine hciR would want want to lock horns with the esuom though. :)

Oops, Rich ninja'd me while I was typing, not sure if this is out of bounds now.

[Woodsman]

Excellent. As usual.

[Snake-Aes]

Last I checked, the stereotype is not patented, and the taj mahal, as a world wonder, is public domain.

[FoE]

To be fair, being a slave driver takes a lot of finesse. Whip the slaves too lightly and they're not properly motivated; whip them too hard and they collapse from the pain. And it can be quite exhausting spending all day whipping slaves in the hot sun. You can't just hand someone off the street a lash and expect them to have a palace built in a day; if you want it done right, you need professionals with years of experience in slave labour.

[Mando Knight]

I was just going to say it reminded me very much of the palace in the niddalA movie as well as the jaT lahaM. :) I can't imagine hciR would want want to lock horns with the esuom though. :)

Classic fantasy-faux-rabian isn't owned by Disney, though, and the architectural style fits perfectly with the setting (remember also that the West Continent is also confirmed to follow gods based on Persian/Babylonian mythos).

[Lateral]

I'm hoping for a short mistaken-identity thing this time- we already had one of those and frankly it would be kind of lame to have Nale's return be ANOTHER identity mixup.

To be fair, being a slave driver takes a lot of finesse. Whip the slaves too lightly and they're not properly motivated; whip them too hard and they collapse from the pain. And it can be quite exhausting spending all day whipping slaves in the hot sun. You can't just hand someone off the street a lash and expect them to have a palace built in a day; if you want it done right, you need professionals with years of experience in slave labour.

:smalltongue:

[pendell]

To be fair, being a slave driver takes a lot of finesse. Whip the slaves too lightly and they're not properly motivated; whip them too hard and they collapse from the pain. And it can be quite exhausting spending all day whipping slaves in the hot sun. You can't just hand someone off the street a lash and expect them to have a palace built in a day; if you want it done right, you need professionals with years of experience in slave labour.

Professionals? Do they offer Microsoft certification and coursework? There's a certified network engineer and a certified system administrator --

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[NerfTW]

I don't think there will be much mistaken identity.

People seem to be able to tell class on sight, so Elan has that going for him. And a detect evil spell will instantly verify their identities. Just because the bounty hunters going off a poster can't tell the difference doesn't mean the Empress of Blood can't.

I'm betting this turns into more of a "Haley, Elan, and V on one side of a battle, Roy, Durkon, and Belkar on the other."

[tmacdevitt]

I never knew that Elan and Nale had backwards names of each other before.

:smalltongue:

[Torick]

I don't think there will be much mistaken identity.

People seem to be able to tell class on sight, so Elan has that going for him. And a detect evil spell will instantly verify their identities. Just because the bounty hunters going off a poster can't tell the difference doesn't mean the Empress of Blood can't.

I'm betting this turns into more of a "Haley, Elan, and V on one side of a battle, Roy, Durkon, and Belkar on the other."

I'd bet on the same thing.

As has been mentioned, the mistaken identity thing has already been done once (and this being a webcomic with a well-established direction, as opposed to say a newspaper comic, there's not much need for repetitive filler), and as has also been mentioned, a point was made of establishing that the Empire puts a lot of importance on having one's paperwork in order - meaning that the identity's not likely to continue to be mistaken once they try to hand off the marks to the Empress, who is likely to ensure that they are who the bounty hunters say they are.

I'm assuming that the Empress, or something related to her, is the focus of the next section of the plot, and that the Nale/Elan mix-up bounty is simply a means of moving the plot (physically, by means of the characters) from wandering through the desert looking for tiny clues mode to definite and immediate mission mode.

[NerfTW]

the Nale/Elan mix-up bounty is simply a means of moving the plot (physically, by means of the characters) from wandering through the desert looking for tiny clues mode to definite and immediate mission mode.

Well, that and some potentially awesome Linear Guild backstory. They are one of the suggestions for a potential third prequel book. I wonder if one will be announced soon, filling in the Empress's story with a full on flashback/prequel.

[RMcMurtry]

How about the Chancellor is Haley's father?

[Southern Cross]

I doubt it - it's likely,judging from the flashback of him,that Hayley's dad is a Chaotic alignment.

[Aldrakan]

People seem to be able to tell class on sight, so Elan has that going for him. And a detect evil spell will instantly verify their identities. Just because the bounty hunters going off a poster can't tell the difference doesn't mean the Empress of Blood can't.


People can tell class by sight, through something beyond the general appearance that class has? Since when?
Mind you, Elan and Nale have about the same abilities, so that might confuse matters anyway.
Detect evil spells can be circumvented, though not everyone accounts for that. A lawful evil empire might the sort to go with whatever the spell says, because that's procedure after all.

[Snake-Aes]

People can tell class by sight, through something beyond the general appearance that class has? Since when?
Mind you, Elan and Nale have about the same abilities, so that might confuse matters anyway.
Detect evil spells can be circumvented, though not everyone accounts for that. A lawful evil empire might the sort to go with whatever the spell says, because that's procedure after all.They can only guess, which means good bluffers can go on for a long while. After all, the Sapphires assumed lots of things about Shojo, eh?

[Kranden]

I can't believe I have to post this.

No, there are no hidden implications about the uniforms or architecture or what-have-you of the Empire of Blood people. It's just invented costumes that look sort of spiky and mean, coupled with architecture that fits with a desert theme. It has no significance regarding any real world cultures that may have used similar helmets or towers. There is no real-world commentary going on here, at all.

So, let's all just drop the topic and move on.

No more posts trying to figure out what was scrubbed, either, please. This is not the place to discuss your approval (or lack thereof) of our policies.

Well said, people need to stop looking into deeper meaning FOR EVERY little thing in this comic. Oh his shirt is blue therefore he must be based off so and so from real life because....

/wrists

[CoffeeIncluded]

Aww, I was on the school bus when this updated...:smalltongue:

Nice. And a great example of Lawful Evil!

[sihnfahl]

They can only guess, which means good bluffers can go on for a long while. After all, the Sapphires assumed lots of things about Shojo, eh?
To be fair to Shojo, he was an extremely good actor and actually had the best interests of Azure City in mind. He didn't blip their 'evil meter' (and since he wasn't evil, he wouldn't show up on a DE) and they had no reason to do a 'Detect Law' or 'Detect Chaos'.

Neither Elan nor Haley will show up on a DE ... after, of course, doing things to ensure that DE can't be countered. V, however, is going to be a bit more ... questionable.

Lovely antics ahead if V blips on a DE.

[Snake-Aes]

To be fair to Shojo, he was an extremely good actor and actually had the best interests of Azure City in mind. He didn't blip their 'evil meter' (and since he wasn't evil, he wouldn't show up on a DE) and they had no reason to do a 'Detect Law' or 'Detect Chaos'.

Neither Elan nor Haley will show up on a DE ... after, of course, doing things to ensure that DE can't be countered. V, however, is going to be a bit more ... questionable.

Lovely antics ahead if V blips on a DE.

Detect Evil isn't any good to detect alingment. There's Know Alignment for that. Detecting Evil is mostly about radiating evil magic and people *doing* really evil things.

[Agi Hammerthief]

Nice. And a great example of Lawful Evil!
I'm sure we'll se more of it when the rest of the order fly in with the help of an unregistered cleric

[hamishspence]

Detect Evil isn't any good to detect alingment. There's Know Alignment for that. Detecting Evil is mostly about radiating evil magic and people *doing* really evil things.

In 2nd ed, yes. This is 3rd ed (3.5 to be precise).

There is no Know Alignment spell- it's been subsumed into the four Detect X spells (where X is one of the four basic alignment components).

[pendell]

Well said, people need to stop looking into deeper meaning FOR EVERY little thing in this comic. Oh his shirt is blue therefore he must be based off so and so from real life because....

/wrists

Of course we should look! Haven't you ever read Death of the Author (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_author)?



To give a text an Author" and assign a single, corresponding interpretation to it "is to impose a limit on that text."

Readers must separate a literary work from its creator in order to liberate it from interpretive tyranny ... . Each piece of writing contains multiple layers and meanings. In a well-known quotation, Barthes draws an analogy between text and textiles, declaring that a "text is a tissue [or fabric] of quotations," drawn from "innumerable centers of culture," rather than from one, individual experience. The essential meaning of a work depends on the impressions of the reader, rather than the "passions" or "tastes" of the writer; "a text's unity lies not in its origins," or its creator, "but in its destination," or its audience.

No longer the focus of creative influence, the author is merely a "scriptor" (a word Barthes uses expressly to disrupt the traditional continuity of power between the terms "author" and "authority"). The scriptor exists to produce but not to explain the work and "is born simultaneously with the text, is in no way equipped with a being preceding or exceeding the writing, [and] is not the subject with the book as predicate." Every work is "eternally written here and now," with each re-reading, because the "origin" of meaning lies exclusively in "language itself" and its impressions on the reader.


In other words, the ultimate meaning of a work is decided on by the individual readers, not by the author. So I read this strip and see a deep criticism of western philosophy (as shown by sharp, angular lines on the costumes) when juxtaposed with the sacred feminine (as shown in the sweeping curves of the buildings -- the soldiers occupying the buildings represent the male 'dominating' the female).

So what if the Giant never meant any such thing? I reject such tyranny of the author! I read it into the text, therefore it is there!

:smalltongue:

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

See how I got my graduate degree?

[baudot]

The empire appears to be incredibly Lawful.
Seriously. The thing is, Lawful Evil is such a real world alignment. It took some work to wring a parody this good out of it.

[One Skunk Todd]

So. Third slavedriver from left. Related to Cliffport City Chief of Police?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html

:)

[DSCrankshaw]

I doubt it - it's likely,judging from the flashback of him,that Hayley's dad is a Chaotic alignment.

The better to act as a spy?

It's not beyond the realm of possibility.

[ThatRandomBard]

Heh.
It was all backwards. I wonder how many of the OTHER captives had twins with backwards names. Those liars.
Does anyone think we'll run into one of them, who was really telling the truth, somewhere along the line?

[Creed]

The Giant wins and everyone goes home. You are all welcome.

Great work again, slave-traders strike..heheh.

[Zxo]

I like how the tops of the towers look like drops of blood. Nice touch.

I never thought about how bad a slavedriver's job is :smalleek: whipping must be tiring, shouting all day too, and everybody hates you and you're the first to be attacked in case of a slave revolt. If, on top of it, you don't get paid enough, it must be one of the worst jobs ever (being a slave is of course not a paid job, so it doesn't count).

[Ted The Bug]

"Healthcare now!
(for us, not them)" Might be one of my favourite lines in the whole comic. And the forums didn't devolve into a huge mess of scrubbed healthcare related posts-wow!

[SaintRidley]

I never thought about how bad a slavedriver's job is :smalleek: whipping must be tiring, shouting all day too, and everybody hates you and you're the first to be attacked in case of a slave revolt. If, on top of it, you don't get paid enough, it must be one of the worst jobs ever (being a slave is of course not a paid job, so it doesn't count).

Being a slave isn't a job. It's a lifestyle.

[FoE]

Especially if you're a slave to the rhythm.

[Elfin]

Good for the workers!

[OITS]

I can't express in words how much I hope we don't change the focus to another part of the party (or Team Evil or whatever), 'cause I'm really excited about who this empress is and how she will react.

[One Skunk Todd]

So. Third slavedriver from left. Related to Cliffport City Chief of Police?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html

:)

Gah! I new that wasn't quite right but couldn't remember who else. How about Horace Greenhilt:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html

He's even got green letters on his sign.

[pendell]

So we're the slavedrivers morally justified in striking :smalltongue: ?

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[Zombie Nixon]

I think the empress is going to try to invade the elves.

[Wolfram]

White collar strike! the Empress must be trembling in terror.

Actually a slave driver would be black collar.

Their slaves... metalic collar.

/Public sector unions are all alike.
//The safeword is pension plan.

[Wolfram]

So we're the slavedrivers morally justified in striking :smalltongue: ?

It's part of their job and why they have to carry the whip... OH. My bad. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Tussy the Druid]

Haven't been on the forms, and probably someone else has guessed this but, Hilgya is the Empress

[DeltaEmil]

Must be a nice tyrant, that empress of blood. Others would just enslave these slave drivers for hindering the works on your magnificent palace and hire new slave drivers who are willing to work for the lower wages... Perhaps there are some strikebreakers eager to work for a better premium. :smallcool:

[GenPol]

Heh, I can see how the identical twin thing must come up a lot in the bounty hunting business.

[NerfTW]

Heh, I can see how the identical twin thing must come up a lot in the bounty hunting business.

There was a bit on Arrested Development where the show a series of criminals being led into the police station claiming they have the wrong twin. Then two twins are led in claiming they have the wrong two quadruplets. "It's a very common alibi".

[TheYoungKing]

See how I got my graduate degree?

Hey, don't knock Death of the Author. It isn't complete nonsense, not always.

[MonkeyBusiness]

HAHAHA! Oh my, I loved the slavedrivers on strike! What made it even more special for me is that the garbage-collection company in my city is on strike this week. (I am thankful it is not summer!) "No trash without cash!" Hahaha!

"Healthcare - For Us, Not Them ..." I could comment on that, but the moderators have had to scrub out enough real life commentary today, so I'll just say that for personal reasons this made me laugh even harder the second time I read it!

But my favorite? "Welcome to the Palace of Blood. Excuse the mess, it's been a hectic week."

Thank you Giant for making unfunny things funny, even if only for a few minutes. Hoo, boy ... my tummy hurts from laughing! :smallbiggrin:

MBiz

[Teleporker]

Loved the comic today! So this is what happens when you take the Lawful Evil alignment to the extreme: Bureaucratic Evil!

Who else sees Gobbotopia heading in that direction too?

[KiwiImperator]

Well, that layed it on thick. We're in L.E. territory folks!

[Agi Hammerthief]

I wonder how useful those face covering, spiky helmets are going to be for our heroes

[Wolfram]

Well, that layed it on thick. We're in L.E. territory folks!

And this coming from someone using Longshanks form 'Braveheart' as his icon...

[CrimsonAngel]

Gah! I new that wasn't quite right but couldn't remember who else. How about Horace Greenhilt:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html

He's even got green letters on his sign.

Or maybe the blacksmith from way far back. The one Sabine used to trick the order into going for the starmetal.

Wait, he was a dwarf...

[Half-orc Bard]

I never noticed Nale is Elan backwards

[The_Weirdo]

You know, assuming V can cast spells with somatic components anytime soon, one has to wonder if he prepared Distant Inferno...

[Sablewinged]

Everyone has likely already come to this conclusion, but:

How incredibly Lawful Evil to require all that paperwork, including a receipt of a scroll! This Empress means business, that's for sure. I wonder if Haley, V, and Elan are going to have to fill out forms (in triplicate of course) to prove their innocence or at least petition to prove their innocence.

Here's hoping Roy goes after them soon, lest they be lost in a paper maze forever.

[Herald Alberich]

Hey, I was right (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8328148&postcount=107)! For now, anyway. We'll see if I remain right, and Roy and co. show up guns blazing (so to speak), or if we switch back to them to watch their investigation first.

I'm probable wrong (been reading these forums too much), but I wonder if there is a reason it's "been a hectic week" in the EoB. Why this week as opposed to any other? There is, after all, a monumental, world-shaking event that occured not much longer than a week ago - the Familicide. Could there possibly be a recently deceased black dragon around who's death has precipitated a sudden power shift? Dragons tend to be major influences if they live anywhere close to civilization, but deserts aren't really black dragons' territory. Still, it would be interesting.

[Usmok]

Sserpme fo Doolb. What an odd name.

Hey, I wonder if it has an evil twin brother, too.

[DSCrankshaw]

Sserpme fo Doolb. What an odd name.

Hey, I wonder if it has an evil twin brother, too.

Sister, unless they're fraternal twins.

[factotum]

I can't believe I have to post this.


You've not been on the Internet long, then? :smallbiggrin:

[Me!]

The slavedrivers... it's so sad, they do all the hard job, like torture the slaves and that kind of stuff. (sob) :frown:

[HandofShadows]

I have a feeling the Empire of Blood may not be around after the Order gets done with it. Haley looks really pissed and I don't think any of the Order (other than Belkar) will be any happier.

And spotted a coloring error :smallfrown: V and Elan are miss-colored in the last panel.

And I must say Lawfull Evil has very realy been this evil. Not only the normal evil, but a extra dose of the Ultimate Evil! Buracracy! :smallbiggrin:

[sihnfahl]

And spotted a coloring error :smallfrown: V and Elan are miss-colored in the last panel.
It's their usual colors, just darker. Look at Enor; his colors are similarly darkened.

[Swordpriest]

Yes, yes, bureaucracy is living proof that the Lawful Evil alignment has an objective reality.

[Adeptus]

Evil Bureaucracy :smallyuk:

[NerfTW]

Yes, yes, bureaucracy is living proof that the Lawful Evil alignment has an objective reality.

"Hermes Conrad! If you complete this death transaction without filing the proper paperwork, you will be posthumously demoted!"

"Either way I'll be relegated to a tiny cubicle!"

[HandofShadows]

It's their usual colors, just darker. Look at Enor; his colors are similarly darkened.

Haley, who is in the background, has her normal colors.

[DSCrankshaw]

Haley, who is in the background, has her normal colors.

But she's not directly behind the slave drivers. It's really just a way to give the foreground characters more prominence. If the background characters showed up as vividly, it'd be distracting.

[goldgecko4]

Did anyone notice how ever so PISSED Haley was at the very idea of slavery? Something tells me that she won't be standing for that for very long...

[Teleporker]

Did anyone notice how ever so PISSED Haley was at the very idea of slavery? Something tells me that she won't be standing for that for very long...

Yep. We don't know whether she managed to recover her bow (I think it stayed behind when they teleported), but if Roy brings it back, I expect to see one or two of the slave drivers turned into pin cushions or icicles. Or both.

[martinkou]

"Unequal Pay for Unequal Work" from the Slave Drivers Union.

Damn, THAT's funny. Imagine what happens if all the CxOs, Directors and VPs in our world unionize.

"G20's GDP as Minimum Salary!"
"No Dividends for You Until I Get Another Superyacht!"
"Universal Personal Jet Now! For Us, Not Them!"

A Lawful Evil country, nicely illustrated in just one panel.

[Scarlet Knight]

The slavedrivers... it's so sad, they do all the hard job, like torture the slaves and that kind of stuff. (sob) :frown:

Then they complain when you rack up overtime! ...:smallamused:

[sihnfahl]

Then they complain when you rack up overtime! ...:smallamused:
That joke was a bit of a stretch.

[Felecies]

Ridiculously unlikely (but hopefully amusing) theory of the week:



After Elan left for bard camp his mother got lonely and reconciled with his father. She ruled by his side, eventually turning lawful evil herself. Learning from her spies that Nale had tried to kill Elan she decided that such treachery against their family could not go unpunished.

Unfortunately her husband disapproved of her wish to waste resources hunting down Nale so she killed him and then issued the reward notice for Nale.

A touching reunion awaits.

Elan: Mommmieeee!
Empress of Blood: Hello Elan dear, who is this red headed trollop you're hanging out with?
Haley: This is Haley Starshine, mommy.
Empress of Blood: Really? What a coincidence! I just freed your father from prison and married him after killing my first husband. You're now brother and sister!
Haley: What?
Elan: Aw mommy, that's such a cliche!


I like the part about empress of blood= Elan's mom, even though it is a longshot

but Elan and Haley bro and sis? That would end their romance and I don't think anybody want's that.

[Agi Hammerthief]

That joke was a bit of a stretch.
how long before we run out of puns?

[factotum]

but Elan and Haley bro and sis? That would end their romance and I don't think anybody want's that.

Not to mention it would (a) put the kybosh on Elan's happy ending and (b) be really, really squicky considering we know they've already made the Beast with Two Backs on multiple occasions...

[DSCrankshaw]

Not to mention it would (a) put the kybosh on Elan's happy ending and (b) be really, really squicky considering we know they've already made the Beast with Two Backs on multiple occasions...

Eh, this idea wouldn't make them biological brother and sister, just stepbrother and -sister. It's still off-putting, but it's not quite so insurmountable.

[snikrept]

So who wants to bet the Empress of Blood is Nale's wife, which in turn results in some hilarious romantic mix-up?

That would be AWESOME. Wanted, dead or alive, for running off after some silly amulet of monster control instead of looking after her.

[sam79]

Eh, this idea wouldn't make them biological brother and sister, just stepbrother and -sister. It's still off-putting, but it's not quite so insurmountable.

Surely not insurmountable at all; it is only the actions of other people that have given then a sibling relationship, which is more of a legal fiction than potential incest.

If my father married my wife's mother (unlikely, not least because I'm not married, but hypothetically) it wouldn't invalidate our marriage.

[Wolfram]

how long before we run out of puns?

That's a rather personal question, isn't it?

[Cleverdan22]

Awesome. I do enjoy the "large-scale" panels.

[Scarlet Knight]

how long before we run out of puns?

Hahahahahaha! Run out of puns! Where do people get this stuff?

There'll always be someone who can whip up a new one...

:smalltongue:

[Gift Jeraff]

That would be AWESOME. Wanted, dead or alive, for running off after some silly amulet of monster control instead of looking after her.
The talisman was clearly for their relationship. :smalltongue:

[skyclad]

The talisman was clearly for their relationship. :smalltongue:

So his wife is an old 2nd edition monster? Maybe its the flumphs?

[Moogleking]

That joke was a bit of a stretch.

How longwinded.

[derfenrirwolv]

Hey, don't knock Death of the Author. It isn't complete nonsense, not always.

No, but it should only be rarely used under the most egregious examples of the facts being out of line with what the author says about their work.

People saying belkar was anything but chaotic evil BEFORE rich said anything were off their rockers. AFTER the wordofgod pointed out the obvious a new level of insanity was needed to claim anything else.

I think the only case where i've thought the author was wrong about his own work was when JRR tolkien said that the lord of the rings wasn't an allegory for the war. Heck, when i read it in the 6th grade before i knew that it was during ww2 my first impression was "this sounds a lot like ww2"

[brionl]

Surely not insurmountable at all; it is only the actions of other people that have given then a sibling relationship, which is more of a legal fiction than potential incest.

If my father married my wife's mother (unlikely, not least because I'm not married, but hypothetically) it wouldn't invalidate our marriage.

I used to work with a guy who was married to his (step)sister. At their wedding his mother met her father, they hit it off and got married later. He used to say it all the time, "Yup, I'm married to my sister."

As for the Empress being Nale's wife, interesting possibility, but I'd think there would have been more emphasis on Sabine being in a deceased condition for the reward. :smallwink:

[Capt Spanner]

I think with allegory there's a case for saying: "Regardless of what the author intended, this is what that means to me."

Something objective like an alignment takes a lot more work to prove WoG wrong.

[Capt Spanner]

No, but it should only be rarely used under the most egregious examples of the facts being out of line with what the author says about their work.

People saying belkar was anything but chaotic evil BEFORE rich said anything were off their rockers. AFTER the wordofgod pointed out the obvious a new level of insanity was needed to claim anything else.

I think the only case where i've thought the author was wrong about his own work was when JRR tolkien said that the lord of the rings wasn't an allegory for the war. Heck, when i read it in the 6th grade before i knew that it was during ww2 my first impression was "this sounds a lot like ww2"


I think with allegory there's a case for saying: "Regardless of what the author intended, this is what that means to me."

Something objective like an alignment takes a lot more work to prove WoG wrong.


I used to work with a guy who was married to his (step)sister. At their wedding his mother met her father, they hit it off and got married later. He used to say it all the time, "Yup, I'm married to my sister."

I take it everyone assumed he was a vicar?

[enigmatime]

Those protesters reminded me of something in current events... I can't put my finger on it. Nice strip, anyhow.

[Wolfram]

Those protesters reminded me of something in current events... I can't put my finger on it. Nice strip, anyhow.

Public sector unions...

Actually, I know what you were implying. I'm just being a cranky contrarian conservative!

[Wolfram]

I think the only case where i've thought the author was wrong about his own work was when JRR tolkien said that the lord of the rings wasn't an allegory for the war. Heck, when i read it in the 6th grade before i knew that it was during ww2 my first impression was "this sounds a lot like ww2"

Actually, whiile the LOtR series was written during WW2, Tolkien served in the trenches of the Western front of WW1. And he did admit he drew a lot on his WW1 experiences for the novel.

[NerfTW]

Surely not insurmountable at all; it is only the actions of other people that have given then a sibling relationship, which is more of a legal fiction than potential incest.

If my father married my wife's mother (unlikely, not least because I'm not married, but hypothetically) it wouldn't invalidate our marriage.

They almost did that on the Simpsons. Marge set up Grandpa and whatever her mother's name is in one episode. Then she almost married Burns. Then they got back together and it was never mentioned again, even when Homer's mother kept coming back.


Did anyone notice how ever so PISSED Haley was at the very idea of slavery? Something tells me that she won't be standing for that for very long...

I'd be very worried at a "good" aligned character who doesn't get extremely upset at the idea of slavery.

[Alecfelinus]

I like the idea of the empress being someone that Elan feels the need to seduce, but then has to stop and weigh his feelings for Haley and his bardic path against each other. I can see him ogling the empress and brushing his hair back, only to see Haley fuming at him, then he kind of deflates.

[Ricardo]

I like the idea of the empress being someone that Elan feels the need to seduce, but then has to stop and weigh his feelings for Haley and his bardic path against each other. I can see him ogling the empress and brushing his hair back, only to see Haley fuming at him, then he kind of deflates.Disagree. I think you have Elan confused with someone else.

[Shale]

Well, we already know that it's his solemn duty to seduce female villains... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0160.html)

[NerfTW]

Disagree. I think you have Elan confused with someone else.

Either that, or you've forgotten every other time this has occurred.

[Ricardo]

Haha! Good old bandit times. That does make sense, however, that was before the relationship with Haley. :elan: + :haley: = <3

[Kumo]

Either that, or you've forgotten every other time this has occurred.

Therkla. Female baddy. Remained unseduced, even to save her life.

[factotum]

Either that, or you've forgotten every other time this has occurred.

You mean, like ONCE? The only time I can think of Elan seducing a female bad guy is with Samantha back in the bandit camp. Please, point out the other occasions where it's happened?

[hamishspence]

I'd be very worried at a "good" aligned character who doesn't get extremely upset at the idea of slavery.

BoED and Cityscape both suggest that this is what's normal for Good characters.

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, however, has a paladin-ruled nation (Mulhorand) modelled heavily on ancient Egypt (in the setting, wizards abducted ancient Egyptians and brought them to Faerun) which practices slavery.

[Timberboar]

Therkla. Female baddy. Remained unseduced, even to save her life.

I don't think Elan ever realized she was a baddy.

[Kumo]

I don't think Elan ever realized she was a baddy.

"She wants to join the good guys now!"

:smallannoyed:

[Timberboar]

"She wants to join the good guys now!"

:smallannoyed:

In the interest of furthering discussion, a link would be helpful, as without context your quote proves nothing. :smallsigh: