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Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-22, 03:32 PM
Hello.
I'm creating my first character for Shadowrun, and I was wondering if anyone could grant me any insight on the pros and cons of Longarms and Automatics. I can only afford to specialize in one, and I'd like some opinions from people who know the system well.

Thanks in advance.

[Edit: Ah blast it. I clicked the wrong forum.]

Silverscale
2010-04-22, 04:11 PM
Hello.
I'm creating my first character for Shadowrun, and I was wondering if anyone could grant me any insight on the pros and cons of Longarms and Automatics. I can only afford to specialize in one, and I'd like some opinions from people who know the system well.

Thanks in advance.

[Edit: Ah blast it. I clicked the wrong forum.]

That's Ok I'll try and answer your question anyway.....Before we go too far what sort of character are you trying to create? I'm guessing a shooter of some sort. Sniper, Blaster, Assassin, etc? If I know where you're trying to go with the character I can recommend different weapons.

Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-22, 04:37 PM
That's sort of a hard question to answer...

I'm not aiming for anything in particular as far as combat goes. I was a police officer, now I'm sort of a Private Eye. Campaign world is a little... Different. I probably will be on the field and in the thick of things more often than not.

BRC
2010-04-22, 04:40 PM
How stringent is your DM in terms of letting you find Ammo. Do you just spend the Nuyen and assume you found some, or would it be a huge deal to get a couple SMG clips?
How do you do with other close combat stuff like Pistols and Shotguns?

How much do you care about being stealthy, because that's what Automatics are NOT.

Spiryt
2010-04-22, 04:45 PM
How much do you care about being stealthy, because that's what Automatics are NOT.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MWsbcXqIxw&feature=related

:smallwink:

Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-22, 04:46 PM
I'm not really sure about those first few questions either. I've never played before, the DM has never played before, and we're all more or less unfamiliar with the general ruleset. So it's really anyone's guess at this point.

I am already a crack shot with a Pistol and have plenty of them on me at all times, plus [fake] permits for them on every SIN I have, so I don't expect to be without them very often.

As for stealth, well, I definitely prefer to be discrete, but I also don't want to give up the ability to kill tougher enemies if that's what's going to come at me.

EDIT: In response to the video, I do think it's worth noting that everything seems to be able to be silenced unless it shoots things that explode, so I think the only real issue here is how much lead I leave laying around.

Silverscale
2010-04-22, 04:47 PM
If you're going primarily for a police officer/P.I. sorta character then not really combat heavy and to go along with that image I would go with a single handgun possibly a magnum and a side arm for back-up.

I say single as apposed to double because I tend to make characters who duel wield a matched pair of hand guns.

EDIT A Magnum will help you take down the big boys if you do face them

Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-22, 04:50 PM
If you're going primarily for a police officer/P.I. sorta character then not really combat heavy and to go along with that image I would go with a single handgun possibly a magnum and a side arm for back-up.

I say single as apposed to double because I tend to make characters who duel wield a matched pair of hand guns.

Initially I was going to do just that, but when I realized that my teammates are respectively a lawyer and a small business owner [?!] I decided that I ought to at least be proficient in something heavier. I don't know what's coming, and all.

Keep in mind, I don't intend to USE these weapons unless something big comes up. I just want to know what to have ready when it does.

Edit: Ninja'd. In that case, then, could you perhaps refer me to some specific models of Magnums? These books are a little confusing compared to the D&D fare I'm used to.

Silverscale
2010-04-22, 04:55 PM
Edit: Ninja'd. In that case, then, could you perhaps refer me to some specific models of Magnums? These books are a little confusing compared to the D&D fare I'm used to.Unfortunately I can't find my books but in general bigger numbers are better except when talking about weight then you want smaller numbers.

Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-22, 04:58 PM
When you say Magnums, do you mean Heavy Pistols?
...I hope you mean Heavy Pistols, because otherwise I don't know exactly what you mean. ^_^

Silverscale
2010-04-22, 04:59 PM
When you say Magnums, do you mean Heavy Pistols?
...I hope you mean Heavy Pistols, because otherwise I don't know exactly what you mean. ^_^

Yes Heavy Pistols....some/all of them are even semi/fully automatic depending on setting.

Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-22, 05:04 PM
Well, my skill specialty when it comes to pistols is semi-autos, so I guess that works.

That leads me to a couple of other semi-related questions. Does anyone out there have any advice on useful gun upgrades or non-magical ways to get bonus initiative passes?

Silverscale
2010-04-22, 05:10 PM
Well, my skill specialty when it comes to pistols is semi-autos, so I guess that works.

That leads me to a couple of other semi-related questions. Does anyone out there have any advice on useful gun upgrades or non-magical ways to get bonus initiative passes?

There are a number of upgrades that reduce recoil which means you have less penalty on your second shot in a round, off the top of my head "Personalized Handgrip" and "Weighted Barrel". Also you might want to add a Biometric Lock-out which makes it so only you can use your guns. Really just flip through the mod-section and select 3-4 that suit your fancy. However these can quickly become cost prohibative so you might want to only add mods to you main weapon or 2 main weapons if as you say you have a small collection of guns on you at all times

Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-22, 05:13 PM
There are a number of upgrades that reduce recoil which means you have less penalty on your second shot in a round, off the top of my head "Personalized Handgrip" and "Weighted Barrel". Also you might want to add a Biometric Lock-out which makes it so only you can use your guns. Really just flip through the mod-section and select 3-4 that suit your fancy. However these can quickly become cost prohibative so you might want to only add mods to you main weapon or 2 main weapons if as you say you have a small collection of guns on you at all times

Hmm. I don't see those in my guide, but then again so far these books have been labyrinthine. I'll keep looking. Thanks for the advice.

Edit: Wait, nevermind, found them.
Anyway, my question on initiative passes still stands, and while I'm at it, advice on regular equipment would rock too.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-04-22, 05:15 PM
Well the big damaging revolver in shadowrun is in the main book the Ruger Super Warhawk. However it being SS limits its actually usefulness in combat. An Ares Predator is less damaging but can fire twice in an initiative pass instead of once.
*If the book Arsenal is available then you could modify the Ruger to be semi-auto*.

Often times it will come down to dice pools, legality and concealability
My Face Adept uses pistols as they fit his character type but due to his high agility and good skill ranking he's deadly efficient with them.
He tends to use a Ares slivergun or his Ruger Thuderbolt[a sidearm Arsenal]. Both modified in various ways. *A prime advantage of the slivergun is it comes with a built in silencer without being forbidden gear.
He also has a street line special in an ankle hostler and a monofiliment whip hidden in a cigar case.

If your pistol skill is high enough you can blast things down very efficiently not as well as say with an automatic but the attention you draw is much less.

Legality is also a major issue, just because your licence to carry the big automatic doesn't mean you won't attract attention walking down the street in it. Attention is bad.

Now Jack my face adept can take on people wielding automatic weapons, and often does. In one instance he faced 3 ghouls wielding Smartgun X, SMG's.
Though Jack has the advantage that with his commanding voice he can literally say to a gang of enemies. "Throw your guns at me" and they have a good chance of doing it.

Silverscale
2010-04-22, 05:37 PM
Well the big damaging revolver in shadowrun is in the main book the Ruger Super Warhawk. However it being SS limits its actually usefulness in combat. An Ares Predator is less damaging but can fire twice in an initiative pass instead of once.
*If the book Arsenal is available then you could modify the Ruger to be semi-auto*. My Gunslinger Adept runs with 2 pairs of Personalized Ares Predators, one pair mounted on Gun-arm slides, another pair in his shoulder harnesses and also a pair of Ares Slivers concealed in a double harness at the small of his back. All are kept loaded with an extra clip also loaded and ready to go for each. At first glance, he appears to be unarmed but that's just to give the enemy a false sense of superiority.

EDIT: He saves money on all those Mods by doing the modifications himself. Not to mention he's able to make money with the same skill.

sombrastewart
2010-04-22, 08:28 PM
The Ruger Super Warhawk with the semi automatic conversion has a higher base damage and lowers armor value by an additional point. Grab an extended cylinder (all of these modifications are in the Arsenal book) for an 8 round cylinder instead of 6 and use the Called Shot mechanic for increased damage or to bypass armor. You'll be a frightening gunslinger, plus, you get the awesome deterrent/intimidation factor.

I was just playing a cyberware-enhanced face character that made use of all kinds of pistols. He kept a Ruger Thunderbolt in a hidden gun arm slide, a Slivergun in a hidden holster and carried the Warhawk in the open for that reason.

EDIT: Oh, right, the original question. Automatics can put out some serious damage, but you can get access to fully automatic shotgun through supplemental books for the same kind of thing.

crizh
2010-04-22, 09:19 PM
If you are not buying the whole skill group and you're already good with pistols you might consider going with Heavy Weapons instead.

It covers a very wide spread of weapons that are useful when the faeces strikes the rotating blades. Really, Automatics and Longarms tend to be stuff you only break out in similar circumstances so why not up the stakes a notch and get some real grade-A bang bangs?

Drake Gryphon
2010-04-23, 01:05 AM
About the inish passes: If you are not magical or a technomancer, there are 3 main ways to get extra passes

Wired Reflexes
Pro: cheapest of the 3 to get more passes
Con: You'll probably end up replacing it at some point
Move-by-Wire
Pro: Same essence cost as wired reflexes plus skill wire, better reaction bonus, and bonus to dodge
Con: Expensive and hard to get.
Synaptic Booster
Pro: Just like Wired Reflexes, but much lower essence cost
Con: Very expensive

Hope that helps. Wired reflexes and the synaptic booster are in the core book, move-by-wire is in augmentation

Dr.Gunsforhands
2010-04-23, 01:11 AM
As for general equipment, just be sure to get an armor jacket. It's not expensive, and it's among the best protection money can buy. Beyond that, let's see... don't forget to pay for lifestyles, IDs, and commlinks. AR goggles and AR gloves are necessities - they let you send quick, silent text messages when talking to the rest of the party. Just make sure that you can take them off when the ads start popping up...

Another necessity is the vision-enhancing contact lens. The ultrasound option is particularly noteworthy, since it sees either best or second-best in any light or fog condition.

Other fun things include: Docwagon contracts, chameleon suits, monofilament chainsaws, Intrusion Countermeasures, medkits, and linguasofts.

Anyway, you were also asking about initiative passes? Well, the obvious thing to do would be to look in the Cyberware list and hunt down Wired Reflexes and Synaptic Booster, as the ninja states.

Note that, in addition to being obscenely expensive, the latter is what they call cultured bioware, which basically means it needs to be special-ordered specifically for the buyer. Note also the different cyberware grades, which let you pay extra to help offset heavy Essence costs.

More obscurely, there exists a rule in Augmentation that lets you get cyberware at a nice discount, assuming you don't mind, er, "buying used."

Worira
2010-04-23, 01:22 AM
Longarms vs. Automatics is mostly a matter of taste. A semi-auto sniper rifle can pump out rounds at a pretty decent rate, and an assault rifle has a maximum range of just over half a kilometre.

Also, unless I'm misreading it, there's pretty much no reason to ever call a shot to avoid armour. The penalty to your attack rolls exactly cancels out their bonus from armour, and you're more likely to miss entirely on top of that. The only advantage is changing the damage from Stun to Physical.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-04-23, 01:12 PM
Longarms vs. Automatics is mostly a matter of taste. A semi-auto sniper rifle can pump out rounds at a pretty decent rate, and an assault rifle has a maximum range of just over half a kilometre.

Also, unless I'm misreading it, there's pretty much no reason to ever call a shot to avoid armour. The penalty to your attack rolls exactly cancels out their bonus from armour, and you're more likely to miss entirely on top of that. The only advantage is changing the damage from Stun to Physical.

It is if your using Flechette rounds which with errata add +5 to the armor of the target, armor penetration doesn't work for or against called shots to avoid armor.

Its also useful because the target is only rolling body to resist damage his chances of glitching or critically glitching the damage resistance is much higher. In practice I've found it very efficient for eliminating mooks.
*Especially when your in a Chameleon suit and they haven't spotted you yet.
thus no defense roll.

DeltaEmil
2010-04-23, 01:19 PM
As Shadowrunners, you're going to mostly infiltrate guarded facilities to bring out people who arranged their own kidnapping, steal prototypes, or make some other way of chaos. You're not going to have that much range inside a building, and if you need to fight and the alarm has already been sound, you might be better of with automatic weapons because of the increased damage when firing a salvo, as well for the covering fire it can provde.

Worira
2010-04-23, 04:14 PM
Oh man, they've changed flechettes so that they aren't better than regular rounds in every way? Lame!

Lord Vukodlak
2010-04-23, 06:32 PM
Oh man, they've changed flechettes so that they aren't better than regular rounds in every way? Lame!

Yep though considering Flechettes go to impact armor[which is usually two less then ballistics]. They still tend to come out ahead damage wise.

Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-23, 06:35 PM
Thanks for the equipment advice guys; I'm almost completely done now. Still tweaking out my basic inventory a bit, and based off of the discussion here I'm going to pick up some form of Flechette Weapon.

Thanks!

Lord Vukodlak
2010-04-23, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the equipment advice guys; I'm almost completely done now. Still tweaking out my basic inventory a bit, and based off of the discussion here I'm going to pick up some form of Flechette Weapon.

Thanks!

Remember flechette is a type of ammo, it can be applied to most guns, just a few weapons use it exclusively.

Scarlet Tropix
2010-04-24, 07:36 AM
Remember flechette is a type of ammo, it can be applied to most guns, just a few weapons use it exclusively.

Oh? I was under the impression that the ammo had to be used with those exclusive guns. That actually saves me a stack of cash, then.